Maximising my bulk- carb question

[CharliC]

Hey girls,

I'm a bundle of self-dissatisfaction at the moment, so any wise advice would be greatly appreciated.

I'm currently trying to lean bulk. I'm eating 2000-2200 cals/day and lifting 4x/week with no cardio. I'm not very happy with how I'm progressing (other than with strength) and am wondering if I may be compromising the rate of progress by not eating enough carbs. I get 180-200g which sounds reasonable, but it only represents about 30% of my intake, meaning that fat is usually up around 70g to make up the calories. I'm thinking to maybe push to 250g carbs and drop my fat intake down.

I was also thinking about cycling carbs (just low and high days- no carb free ones).

I'd appreciate any feedback, links to articles or anecdotal experience from you ladies who've had success bulking with minimal fat gain.

Cheers
Charli

[robinsteal]

i'm interested in this post, dont mean to interupt. i am doing the opposite of you and get about 225-250 grams carbs a day which makes up about 50% of my diet and only get about 20% fats (40-44g). i'm also trying to clean bulk and have been having strength gains and minimal size gains. my weight has only gone up a few pounds since the middle of jan. so yes please ladies this post hits a bit close to home for me also.

[Amanda76]

It takes a LOOONG time to gain size. If everything is going perfectly, women can gain 1/4-1/2 lb of lean mass per week. Athletes with professional coaches and nutritionists don't hit "perfect" consistently so, there's definitely a reason women get told not to worry about "accidentally" gaining too much muscle. Even if we want to, it's not going to happen very fast.

I personally have only based my calories on 40/40/20 and 40/30/30 intakes and then cheated in addition to that. With higher carbs and less fat, I have a tendency to crave sugar and eat dirtier which gives me less control over calorie intake and adds to the liklihood of fat gain. The extra food gives me extra energy...but I spend a lot of time feeling kinda crappy (could be the quality of my food with my tendency to allow more processed foods like breads and cereals in addition to my tendency to cheat more). I've never intentionally eaten 50% carbs, but I'm sure when cheating my macros have ended up with extremely high carbs some days. This is the first year I've done 40/30/30, so it may have been a fluke, but I had a lot fewer cravings (so the bulk was cleaner without me feeling like I was avoiding anything) and my strength went up a lot more over the same period of time than it has the last few years. I also felt great..."bright-eyed and bushy tailed" more often.

Just like finding the ratios that work the best for leaning up, I think bulking is a pretty individual thing, too. I'd finish your current bulking cycle and take notes about how it went...if you think it could have done better, do something else next time for comparison.

[CharliC]

Originally Posted by robinsteal

i'm interested in this post, dont mean to interupt. i am doing the opposite of you and get about 225-250 grams carbs a day which makes up about 50% of my diet and only get about 20% fats (40-44g). i'm also trying to clean bulk and have been having strength gains and minimal size gains. my weight has only gone up a few pounds since the middle of jan. so yes please ladies this post hits a bit close to home for me also.

Hope we can both get some questions answered then

How are you going about it re: calories and workout routine? Are you happy with how lean you've been staying?

Originally Posted by Amanda76

It takes a LOOONG time to gain size. If everything is going perfectly, women can gain 1/4-1/2 lb of lean mass per week. Athletes with professional coaches and nutritionists don't hit "perfect" consistently so, there's definitely a reason women get told not to worry about "accidentally" gaining too much muscle. Even if we want to, it's not going to happen very fast.

I personally have only based my calories on 40/40/20 and 40/30/30 intakes and then cheated in addition to that. With higher carbs and less fat, I have a tendency to crave sugar and eat dirtier which gives me less control over calorie intake and adds to the liklihood of fat gain. The extra food gives me extra energy...but I spend a lot of time feeling kinda crappy (could be the quality of my food with my tendency to allow more processed foods like breads and cereals in addition to my tendency to cheat more). I've never intentionally eaten 50% carbs, but I'm sure when cheating my macros have ended up with extremely high carbs some days. This is the first year I've done 40/30/30, so it may have been a fluke, but I had a lot fewer cravings (so the bulk was cleaner without me feeling like I was avoiding anything) and my strength went up a lot more over the same period of time than it has the last few years. I also felt great..."bright-eyed and bushy tailed" more often.

Just like finding the ratios that work the best for leaning up, I think bulking is a pretty individual thing, too. I'd finish your current bulking cycle and take notes about how it went...if you think it could have done better, do something else next time for comparison.

Hey Amanda- thanks for the input! I'm well aware that it's a slow and gruelling process, I just want to ensure that I'm not causing it to be any slower than necessary! I'll be getting new progress pics next week to compare with my last ones (taken in September) so I may post them up to get some input on whether I'm gaining at a reasonable rate and what's happening in terms of body fat.

I've only just got within a healthy weight range and am still suffering physical complaints of anorexia (amenhorrea and osteoporosis being the biggest issues) so I feel I should be persevering with weight gain for some time yet. Because of this, if I am going about things in the wrong way, I want to nip it in the bud now, rather than continuing in a suboptimal way for another few months or so.

I agree with you that it's quite individual and everyone has something that works well for them, so I guess the best thing I can do is experiment.

[terracotta]

I did 50c/30p/20f when I was bulking. I have never gone below 40% carbs ever though. Personally, I prefer high carbs, but you should be fine with something like a 40/40/20. I would definitely try increasing carbs to 40%.

[CharliC]

Originally Posted by terracotta

I did 50c/30p/20f when I was bulking. I have never gone below 40% carbs ever though. Personally, I prefer high carbs, but you should be fine with something like a 40/40/20. I would definitely try increasing carbs to 40%.

Thanks- good to hear from you, I'm a fan of your site (but then who isn't ). What do you think of a steady 40% vs. cycling between 30% and 50% in terms of minimising fat gain?

[robinsteal]

Originally Posted by CharliC

Hope we can both get some questions answered then

How are you going about it re: calories and workout routine? Are you happy with how lean you've been staying?

i have been doing around 2000 cals a day and up. i like that the fat gain has been minimal and i have seen some muscle increases. i am also aware that fat gain is inevitable when bulking. my workout routine is 5x a week. shoulders,chest and tri - leg - back and bi. the other 2 days i do just abs and a tiny ammount of cardio - about 5 mins hard running. also on the days i lift i do abs and 5 min hard cardio. i was actually thinking of upping my fats and protein and lowering my carbs. a 40/40/30 split instead of the 50/30/20. although i love my carbs. lol.

[terracotta]

Originally Posted by CharliC

Thanks- good to hear from you, I'm a fan of your site (but then who isn't ). What do you think of a steady 40% vs. cycling between 30% and 50% in terms of minimising fat gain?

I'd just do a steady 40%. Remember, you don't build muscle in the gym, you build it at rest, so you'll always want to have those carbs IMO.

[Emma-Leigh]

personally - my opinion is:
Your body is YOUR body - and it needs what it needs.
So - Get enough calories first and foremost. Then look at your body, your lean mass, your training, and your insulin sensitivity and base your total macro's on these things (as NUMBERS) rather than setting your intakes at random % of your total calorie intake because this is 'the normal ratio'.

[CharliC]

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

personally - my opinion is:
Your body is YOUR body - and it needs what it needs.
So - Get enough calories first and foremost. Then look at your body, your lean mass, your training, and your insulin sensitivity and base your total macro's on these things (as NUMBERS) rather than setting your intakes at random % of your total calorie intake because this is 'the normal ratio'.

Thanks for replying Emma- I have much respect for your advice .

Agreed- I don't adhere to ratios intentionally- 40/30/30 is just approximately how it's working out at the moment (I tend to wind up with unnecessary amounts of protein without meaning to). Would you consider 2000-2200 to be a reasonable calorie range for me based on heavy lifting 4x/week and no cardio?

[Emma-Leigh]

Originally Posted by CharliC

Thanks for replying Emma- I have much respect for your advice .

Thank you...

I don't adhere to ratios intentionally- 40/30/30 is just approximately how it's working out at the moment (I tend to wind up with unnecessary amounts of protein without meaning to). Would you consider 2000-2200 to be a reasonable calorie range for me based on heavy lifting 4x/week and no cardio?

Depends on your genetics, your training intensity, your day job, your absorptive capacity.... etc etc.

If you were pretty active, had good sensitivity, and trained pretty hard then at 110# 2000-2200 might be a little low for good gains. If you were sitting most of the day, and if you were less sensitive, 2000-2200 might not be as good.

With that said -> it sounds like, at the moment, you are not happy with your gains - so bump it up and wait a few more weeks. See your results with a touch more. If, once again, you are not happy, increase again and then wait.

As with your macro needs - you need to base your intake on your results/ your body - not on what you *think* you should eat based on formula, or what others *say* you should eat based on their experience/what they read.

[CharliC]

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

Thank you...



Depends on your genetics, your training intensity, your day job, your absorptive capacity.... etc etc.

If you were pretty active, had good sensitivity, and trained pretty hard then at 110# 2000-2200 might be a little low for good gains. If you were sitting most of the day, and if you were less sensitive, 2000-2200 might not be as good.

With that said -> it sounds like, at the moment, you are not happy with your gains - so bump it up and wait a few more weeks. See your results with a touch more. If, once again, you are not happy, increase again and then wait.

As with your macro needs - you need to base your intake on your results/ your body - not on what you *think* you should eat based on formula, or what others *say* you should eat based on their experience/what they read.

As a student, I'm sitting on my ass most of the day but when I lift, I train pretty hard. As for insulin sensitivity, I had a blood test done very recently and nothing seems to be amiss.

I'll start experimenting some more with carbs and calories a few weeks at a time and see how I go- thanks

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by CharliC

...if I am going about things in the wrong way, I want to nip it in the bud now, rather than continuing in a suboptimal way for another few months or so.

I agree with you that it's quite individual and everyone has something that works well for them, so I guess the best thing I can do is experiment.

I think all anyone can tell you, atm, is that you're not doing anything that's obviously "not optimal." Feeling great and getting progressively stronger would be what I'd look for out of your nutrition. It'll be a while before you say anything like "Hey...I think I'm gonna have some shoulders when this is all said and done..."

Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh

personally - my opinion is:
Your body is YOUR body - and it needs what it needs.
So - Get enough calories first and foremost. Then look at your body, your lean mass, your training, and your insulin sensitivity and base your total macro's on these things (as NUMBERS) rather than setting your intakes at random % of your total calorie intake because this is 'the normal ratio'.

This is a GREAT post.

[CharliC]

Thanks Amanda. I'm looking forward to said bulging delts day

[kimm4]

Originally Posted by Amanda76

It takes a LOOONG time to gain size. If everything is going perfectly, women can gain 1/4-1/2 lb of lean mass per week. Athletes with professional coaches and nutritionists don't hit "perfect" consistently so, there's definitely a reason women get told not to worry about "accidentally" gaining too much muscle. Even if we want to, it's not going to happen very fast.

I personally have only based my calories on 40/40/20 and 40/30/30 intakes and then cheated in addition to that. With higher carbs and less fat, I have a tendency to crave sugar and eat dirtier which gives me less control over calorie intake and adds to the liklihood of fat gain. The extra food gives me extra energy...but I spend a lot of time feeling kinda crappy (could be the quality of my food with my tendency to allow more processed foods like breads and cereals in addition to my tendency to cheat more). I've never intentionally eaten 50% carbs, but I'm sure when cheating my macros have ended up with extremely high carbs some days. This is the first year I've done 40/30/30, so it may have been a fluke, but I had a lot fewer cravings (so the bulk was cleaner without me feeling like I was avoiding anything) and my strength went up a lot more over the same period of time than it has the last few years. I also felt great..."bright-eyed and bushy tailed" more often.

Just like finding the ratios that work the best for leaning up, I think bulking is a pretty individual thing, too. I'd finish your current bulking cycle and take notes about how it went...if you think it could have done better, do something else next time for comparison.

Agreed, I think a 40/30/30 are solid numbers for a bulk. I think going higher in carbs only makes you crave them more. Keeping the fat numbers where they are will keep your energy up and keep cravings at a minimum.

Good luck.