"Criticism From Fellow Trainers"

[Rap_Rocky]

Me personally? I don't care if I'm more qualified or if the trainer knows more than me, I'm always open about whatever they have to say, as long as it's valid and they're not making something up from the sky.

Periodically, I post my services on craigslist and I got a message from someone who I presumed to be a potential client. They emailed me and asked, "I would like to know why do people get tired during exercise? Why does someone experience fatigue?"

...not your typical question from someone who you figure to be inquiring about your services. So, I gave them a simple answer in return...

"Fatigue occurs during exercise according to your body's energy levels, oxygen consumption uptake (or max level) and metabolism. When sprinting, your body relies on an anaerobic metabolism, which can only supply a limited amount of energy with very little oxygen utilization, as opposed to an aerobic metabolism where you're able to utilize oxygen more efficiently and be able to carry on an exercise at a less intense, but longer rate. To increase your threshold for fatigue, or to get tired not as quickly, you can use the same principles you normally would to increase strength at the gym - gradually increase your intensity, frequency and duration of aerobic activities. So if you're running on the treadmill for cardio, gradually increase the time limit, the speed and how often you run. Be sure to vary your aerobic activities as well. Thanks for your question!"



His response...

"Jeffrey,



Thanks for your answer. I appreciate you taking the time out to respond to my question. Although everything you said is true, the rate you produce energy has minimal impact on fatigue during exercise. The concept of exercise induced fatigue has not been completely understood in science today. A lot of research needs to be done. The most recent research that I have read has been about leaky calcium channels being the cause of fatigue. Others theories such as the central fatigue theory and lactic acid build up have not been completely proven to be true, although it can be a combination of all the theories.



I ask this question to multiple personal trainers on craigslist because I am trying to see how many trainers are aware of this information. I am interested in pursuing my doctoral degree and I've been looking for a topic to focus my research around. I believe that we should know why we get tired due to exercise.



My education background is a Bachelor in Exercise Science and a Masters in Exercises Science. I am also a young (25yrs) aspiring individual as yourself. This is a field that I am dedicating my career to. Please don't be offended. I have had other responses where people have taken offence to my question and response.



Thanks once again and much luck and success in your career,



Cemi, "




...I don't know....I was wondering, this seems kind of offensive - like, does he go around brandishing his knowledge and degree status to random trainers? Either way, I totally left out lactic acid and I was kind of upset at myself for forgetting that. Regardless, I wasn't "furious" about him asking the question...just seemed kind of..ehh..wish I could put it in words..


Well anyway, I'm curious to know if you guys have ever dealt with criticism from another trainer and if so, how did you handle it?

[DoItUp]

I don't know exactly how I'd handle it, but I definately would not be furious.

Since his view point is that we do not know the exact reason for getting tired, his question was a little unfair to you. Regardless of what you said his answer would have been the same. Keep in mind that since there has been no research (apparently) on fatigue then he may not also be right either.

For what has been studies as of now it has to do with working above the threshold which forces your pyruvic acid from glycolysis to be converted to lactic acid due to lack of oxygen. Lactic acid interferes with myosin binding on actin which therefore make muscle contracton less powerful and less efficient causing an overall fatigue. Im not too sure about the calcium leak, seems a bit odd since calcium is one of the first steps in muscle contraction. All that leaking calcium would cause is for troponin to be partially saturated which would lead to muscle twitches. Not sure how that ties into fatigue

Anyways I'd probably react sort of how you did, a little surprised-but if the dude is going into grad school then he needs a thesis, and asking trainers about a question and seeing that there is not a whole lot of knowledge on that specific question, will help him decide what to write a thesis on. And hey maybe 4 years down the road his study will be published and we will have an answer

[askthetrainer]

He is researching topics for his PHD (or so he says) so this could be a legitimate way to get some material for his thesis so he's not totally trying to be a douchebag.

The fact is that 90% of the stuff you learn in college does not come up during a training session and whether you know the clinical definition of muscle fatigue means jack ****.

Also, I wouldn't say the douche was criticizing you, more like being a douche bag messaging you back and explaining hisself.

Being a personal trainer is often associated with a big ego so criticisms are common amongst personal trainers. These criticisms usually arise from training messages not textbook crap which doesn't apply to 99% of sessions.

How to deal with it? You could either let it go in one ear and out the other or you could think about it and use it to your advantage as some criticisms may actually be valid.

Criticisms like, you pushing your clients too hard putting your client in danger or something to that effect would important to think about.

Everybody thinks their methods are the best, if they didn't why would they be using them? There are different ways to achieve a goal and as long as your clients are satisfied and you are making a good living, take all criticism with a grain of salt and brush your shoulders off.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by DoItUp

I don't know exactly how I'd handle it, but I definately would not be furious.

Since his view point is that we do not know the exact reason for getting tired, his question was a little unfair to you. Regardless of what you said his answer would have been the same. Keep in mind that since there has been no research (apparently) on fatigue then he may not also be right either.

For what has been studies as of now it has to do with working above the threshold which forces your pyruvic acid from glycolysis to be converted to lactic acid due to lack of oxygen. Lactic acid interferes with myosin binding on actin which therefore make muscle contracton less powerful and less efficient causing an overall fatigue. Im not too sure about the calcium leak, seems a bit odd since calcium is one of the first steps in muscle contraction. All that leaking calcium would cause is for troponin to be partially saturated which would lead to muscle twitches. Not sure how that ties into fatigue

Anyways I'd probably react sort of how you did, a little surprised-but if the dude is going into grad school then he needs a thesis, and asking trainers about a question and seeing that there is not a whole lot of knowledge on that specific question, will help him decide what to write a thesis on. And hey maybe 4 years down the road his study will be published and we will have an answer

True. I also was in bio class studying the calcium channels - my exercise science professor brought up the topic and from what I've taken note of, apparently the calcium flow inside the muscle cells leak when the muscles get tired - which weaken muscle contractions and ultimately induce fatigue.

As you stated, working above threshold will cause an overall fatigue, regardless of what mechanisms are held responsible, IMO.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by askthetrainer

He is researching topics for his PHD (or so he says) so this could be a legitimate way to get some material for his thesis so he's not totally trying to be a douchebag.

The fact is that 90% of the stuff you learn in college does not come up during a training session and whether you know the clinical definition of muscle fatigue means jack ****.

Also, I wouldn't say the douche was criticizing you, more like being a douche bag messaging you back and explaining hisself.

Being a personal trainer is often associated with a big ego so criticisms are common amongst personal trainers. These criticisms usually arise from training messages not textbook crap which doesn't apply to 99% of sessions.

How to deal with it? You could either let it go in one ear and out the other or you could think about it and use it to your advantage as some criticisms may actually be valid.

Criticisms like, you pushing your clients too hard putting your client in danger or something to that effect would important to think about.

Everybody thinks their methods are the best, if they didn't why would they be using them? There are different ways to achieve a goal and as long as your clients are satisfied and you are making a good living, take all criticism with a grain of salt and brush your shoulders off.

Yeah, thats good advice. Unless you plan on working outside the commercial gym setting - or are working with the baby boom population - the science of exercise doesn't play TOO much of a factor when dealing with the average client.

I love hearing from trainers about different methodologies and overall advice, but don't go around thinking your way is the best - unless you have some solid proof to back it up.

For example, my exercise science prof. told us to never count reps when training clients - stating it's senseless and unprofessional - but when I stepped into my first training gig and didn't yell the reps out, my client got on me - "Can you do me a favor...let me know the reps I'm on or when my last 5 are coming up. Thanks."

Boy was I confused lol.

[Environ]

I think that he should have introduced himself FIRST, explained that he's doing his thesis and then ASKED you if you wouldn't mind answering a few questions.

While I wouldn't have been 'furious' at him for his approach, I would have told him that e-mailing me those questions out of the blue was somewhat unprofessional. Also, if I got that type of 'inquiry', I'd be instantly suspicious, expecting to get a follow up e-mail selling me something or telling me about the latest 'must have' in weight loss or something. It's just not something that an ordinary Joe or Jane would ask.

[DaBurg3r]

he's masturbating his ego.


Why would you bother to explain, in depth, to som random person stuff about energy pathways, V02 max, muscle recruitment and so on and so on.

He's a fuking douche bag.

Like what is it really going to matter in 10years from now when he completes his study, are you gonna be like "zOMG!!!11111!!!1 I talked to that guy one time on craiglist! it was awesome he showed me how I was an idiot for trying to have a casual conversation with someone!"

I would have been offended. As for why people get tired during exercise, tell him to try it some time.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by Environ

I think that he should have introduced himself FIRST, explained that he's doing his thesis and then ASKED you if you wouldn't mind answering a few questions.

While I wouldn't have been 'furious' at him for his approach, I would have told him that e-mailing me those questions out of the blue was somewhat unprofessional. Also, if I got that type of 'inquiry', I'd be instantly suspicious, expecting to get a follow up e-mail selling me something or telling me about the latest 'must have' in weight loss or something. It's just not something that an ordinary Joe or Jane would ask.

Yeah, I understand. I was definitely skeptical when reading it, but figured, hey - what do I have to lose if I answer it?

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by DaBurg3r

he's masturbating his ego.


Why would you bother to explain, in depth, to som random person stuff about energy pathways, V02 max, muscle recruitment and so on and so on.

He's a fuking douche bag.

Like what is it really going to matter in 10years from now when he completes his study, are you gonna be like "zOMG!!!11111!!!1 I talked to that guy one time on craiglist! it was awesome he showed me how I was an idiot for trying to have a casual conversation with someone!"

I would have been offended. As for why people get tired during exercise, tell him to try it some time.

Lmao, yeah..

I don't think the question bothered me so much, but more so that he randomly solicits unsuspecting trainers simply trying to advertise their business to get "theories". Not knocking the guy either way..

[nickmanzoni]

Originally Posted by Rap_Rocky

Lmao, yeah..

I don't think the question bothered me so much, but more so that he randomly solicits unsuspecting trainers simply trying to advertise their business to get "theories". Not knocking the guy either way..

IT seems his real motive is to collect info on how stupid/smart trainers are nowadays.

At least your answer was decent.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by nickmanzoni

IT seems his real motive is to collect info on how stupid/smart trainers are nowadays.

At least your answer was decent.

Yeah, but by doing so, what is he accomplishing? Amusement?

Welp, it's not like my answer was wrong...I just failed to consider other major factors..

[nickmanzoni]

Well, maybe he's trying to push his agenda of "dubious trainers" being the means to pass the law instituting a mandated license for trainers.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by nickmanzoni

Well, maybe he's trying to push his agenda of "dubious trainers" being the means to pass the law instituting a mandated license for trainers.

Dame shame barbers and massage therapists can get licensed though...

[TheManofSteel]

Originally Posted by askthetrainer

The fact is that 90% of the stuff you learn in college does not come up during a training session and whether you know the clinical definition of muscle fatigue means jack ****.

Also, I wouldn't say the douche was criticizing you, more like being a douche bag messaging you back and explaining hisself.

Originally Posted by DaBurg3r

he's masturbating his ego.

I would have been offended. As for why people get tired during exercise, tell him to try it some time.

All of this.

[Retardo-pex]

Your situation, the guy was kinda being a douchebag. In a normal situation, shooting the **** with other trainers etc, I like to hear what others who have more experience have to say and if I know something to be bull**** I'll explain why my thoughts differ on a subject.

I really liked something i read the other day on t-nation, i think it was Alwyn Cosgrove saying basically trainers should hire trainers. If you actually believe in what you do as a profession you should hire someone qualified to train you. Even with all your knowledge of training you might be missing out on something your routine desperately needs for greater results.

[Rap_Rocky]

Originally Posted by Retardo-pex

Your situation, the guy was kinda being a douchebag. In a normal situation, shooting the **** with other trainers etc, I like to hear what others who have more experience have to say and if I know something to be bull**** I'll explain why my thoughts differ on a subject.

I really liked something i read the other day on t-nation, i think it was Alwyn Cosgrove saying basically trainers should hire trainers. If you actually believe in what you do as a profession you should hire someone qualified to train you. Even with all your knowledge of training you might be missing out on something your routine desperately needs for greater results.

Yeah, I agree with that.