MYTH of lifting HEAVY to preserve most muscle...

[MindoverBody21]

Alot of people say that, when cutting, lifting heavy, or for strength, is the best way to preserve the most muscle mass. But wouldnt it make more sense that whatever range your lifting in when your cutting is what youll preserve the most of. For example- if you were to lift for size (8-12 rep range), then you would hold on to the size better, but would be more susceptable to see losses in strength.

This leads to the idea that its just how far you tear your muscles down , that determains how much muscle youll preserve. So a person who goes to failure will hold onto alot more muscle, than a person who doesnt. What rep ranges you lift is irrelevent, it is just how hard you work your muscles.

I think what lead to the idea that lifting heavy preserves that most muscle is that, when you do lift heavy, it is much easier to go to failure.

[ctgblue]

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

[GTmauf]

x2. I have tried both, and by far staying heaving is the way to go. I can preserve all gains by staying as heavy as I can (safely).

[Kyle.Lgk]

Ooh interesting thread, any other opinions?

[Hudacris]

This is a very interesting topic....and hope to hear more responses.....since on my bulk I did pure hypertrophy lifting....and apparently it seems I should switch to strength training on my cut....

On a sorta OT note though, suppose on my cut (in a calorie deficit) I take a week off from the gym. Will that do alot of damage? as far as my muscles not bein stimulated the week so it will be burned off for energy faster? Thanks

[injured44]

i hate losing strength when i lose weight i feel like such a pu$sy

[lightweight99]

Originally Posted by ctgblue

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

I might be an idiot here but what do you mean by drop the volume and keep the intensity? Drop down the reps but keep as much weight as you can? I've always thought you should try to do more reps with lighter weight. Damn I guess I'm cutting completely wrong right now.

[Rookie_Mistake]

Originally Posted by ctgblue

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

so how many reps would you say to do?

6?

[circa67]

What if you're trying to lose a significant amount of weight? Would you still recommend lifting heavy and less reps?

[MattinNC]

Originally Posted by MindoverBody21

Alot of people say that, when cutting, lifting heavy, or for strength, is the best way to preserve the most muscle mass. But wouldnt it make more sense that whatever range your lifting in when your cutting is what youll preserve the most of. For example- if you were to lift for size (8-12 rep range), then you would hold on to the size better, but would be more susceptable to see losses in strength.

This leads to the idea that its just how far you tear your muscles down , that determains how much muscle youll preserve. So a person who goes to failure will hold onto alot more muscle, than a person who doesnt. What rep ranges you lift is irrelevent, it is just how hard you work your muscles.

I think what lead to the idea that lifting heavy preserves that most muscle is that, when you do lift heavy, it is much easier to go to failure.

Quite simply, it is a lot more complicated than you are trying to make it. You can't just "reason it out" like that, since you have no idea what is really going on at the cellular level (nor am I claiming to really know). But basically, this is broscience at it's finest.

[Alec Trevelyan]

Originally Posted by ctgblue

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

Interesting....I have the say way of thinking but when I cut using HST my muscle size appears to get larger. Why that is im guessing is due to the way HST is designed. During the HST when I cut even during the first weeks of high reps I still look large....just something odd ive noticed over time.

[wood78221]

I try to stay heavy as possible when cutting. However when I am carbed up for example, 300lb bench for 6 reps might be heavy, as where when I am depleted a 225 bench for 6-10 is heavy. I just go by what is heavy at the current time, depending on my nutrient intake. But hey, if you look good...who cares how much you are lifting.

[rockdawg21]

Originally Posted by lightweight99

I might be an idiot here but what do you mean by drop the volume and keep the intensity? Drop down the reps but keep as much weight as you can? I've always thought you should try to do more reps with lighter weight. Damn I guess I'm cutting completely wrong right now.

What he's saying is use less reps and heavier weight. When doing a cut, you want to, at the very least, maintain your strength, but ideally, increase your strength, so use less reps and heavier weight, especially on the big compound lifts. Lifting heavy like this will engage the Type IIB muscle fibers which are the large fibers typically utilized by bodybuilders and powerlifters. Engaging these fibers will help keep the muscles with a "full" appearance as well, which I'm sure you've seen others lose some muscle fullness during a cut . Shoot for 8 reps or less. Something you could do is 4 sets on the lifts, 6-8 reps, 4-6 reps, 2-4 reps, and 1-2 reps.

If you don't maintain your strength levels or get stronger during a cut, you risk losing muscle.

[MindoverBody21]

Originally Posted by ctgblue

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

I dont really get what you mean...I am saying that, its strictly the INTENSITY of the lifts (or how much your breaking down your muscles) that determains your bodies need to keep mus mass. Whether it be heavy, or really really light, as long as your breaking down your muscles enough, it shouldnt matter.
Maybe the only reason that the competitors lost muscle when lifting lighter was because they didnt go to failure. Im sure all of you guys know that its much harder to go to failure on a lighter weight, than it is a heavier one...


it doesnt make sense that its strictly low reps that preserves, muscle....it makes sense that its only to what degree you tear down your msucles, and you can tear them down w both low and high reps...

[thebasil]

Originally Posted by lightweight99

I might be an idiot here but what do you mean by drop the volume and keep the intensity? Drop down the reps but keep as much weight as you can? I've always thought you should try to do more reps with lighter weight. Damn I guess I'm cutting completely wrong right now.

drop overall workload...not specifically reps but overall work

[redbirdfan1]

I try to utilize heavy days and moderate/Light days for upper body. heavy days i work 4-6 reps. lighter days 8-12 w/ less rest.

Legs I do but taking it easy due to a sore muscle where my ass meets the leg.

[Kyle.Lgk]

Originally Posted by wood78221

But hey, if you look good...who cares how much you are lifting.

haha this is so true for a lot of people, but some of us do care about strength, function, etc...

Originally Posted by lightweight99

I might be an idiot here but what do you mean by drop the volume and keep the intensity? Drop down the reps but keep as much weight as you can? I've always thought you should try to do more reps with lighter weight. Damn I guess I'm cutting completely wrong right now.

This sounds like the common misconception that less weight / high reps = toning... its just not the case... cutting is about diet, but during a cut I lift hard to preserve my strength and as a result, preserve my muscle

[padrote]

Originally Posted by MindoverBody21

it doesnt make sense that its strictly low reps that preserves, muscle....it makes sense that its only to what degree you tear down your msucles, and you can tear them down w both low and high reps...

going to failure =/= breaking down muscle, you're just taxing your CNS.

[Djin]

Originally Posted by padrote

going to failure =/= breaking down muscle, you're just taxing your CNS.

I've heard that you should go to failure very often, since you will be doing more harm then good... and especially those people who think working out 7 days a week, with failure every day is good for them.

I just don't see how their body can ever catch up and repair the amount of damage they are doing to themselves...

[SocratesTX]

The biggest fallacy here is that strength loss equals muscle loss and that any loss will be drastic when you cut. The truth is, you won't lose any physically noticeable amount of muscle if you eat right, in fact you'll look bigger due to definition. I have taken long breaks from lifting and just done heavy cardio for up to 60 days and never noticed anything but strength loss and that was even minimal and regained that within 3 weeks of returning to lifting.

[thursday22dp]

Wouldnt it make more sense the other way?

The heavier the weight the more your CNS will be activiated and less on the actual muscle itself. So thus wouldnt higher reps and lower intensity be better?

FYI, I do 2 High Intensity Compound lift days and 3 low intensity hypertrophy days for my lifts.

[Grimbeard]

i think personally everyone's body responds differently, so it's whatever works for the individual.

[Libraveu]

Originally Posted by ctgblue

No, if you lighten the load, in a calorie restricted environment, the body wants to rid itself of the thing that is "causing it to starve."
This thing is muscle mass. Muscle burns calories. So unless you continue to tax the muscles fully, the body sees them as unimportant and basically eats them.
Talk to any competitor who did a contset prep and went light on the weights, they LOST muscle.
Stayt as heavy as you SAFELY can go. Drop the volume, KEEP THE INTENSITY. Do not try to force hypertrophy. There are not enough nutrients to rebuild them fully, so the body will metabolize the muscle proteins too.

Stay HEAVY or lose muscle.

THIS x 2

[kulzor]

Originally Posted by rockdawg21

What he's saying is use less reps and heavier weight. When doing a cut, you want to, at the very least, maintain your strength, but ideally, increase your strength, so use less reps and heavier weight, especially on the big compound lifts. Lifting heavy like this will engage the Type IIB muscle fibers which are the large fibers typically utilized by bodybuilders and powerlifters. Engaging these fibers will help keep the muscles with a "full" appearance as well, which I'm sure you've seen others lose some muscle fullness during a cut . Shoot for 8 reps or less. Something you could do is 4 sets on the lifts, 6-8 reps, 4-6 reps, 2-4 reps, and 1-2 reps.

If you don't maintain your strength levels or get stronger during a cut, you risk losing muscle.

Interesting. I think I'll give this a try to see what occurs. So as you go to each of the next sets, are you increasing, decreasing, or keeping the amount of weight the same?

In other words, do 8 reps at say 160 lbs., then 6 reps at 140 lbs, then 4 reps at 120 lbs.? Or the other way around?

[redbirdfan1]

Originally Posted by Grimbeard

i think personally everyone's body responds differently, so it's whatever works for the individual.

Bingo!

Its an inexact science. the principles are there, the foundation, but there are too many variables in each of us to predict exactly what is best and how different things will work for each of us.

[PaLftr]

Why wouldn't you want to get stronger?

Lift as heavy as you can every time you go to the gym, calorie deficit or not. I still get bigger and stronger.



We aren't cheerleaders.

[Pelk]

Originally Posted by MindoverBody21

I dont really get what you mean...I am saying that, its strictly the INTENSITY of the lifts (or how much your breaking down your muscles) that determains your bodies need to keep mus mass. Whether it be heavy, or really really light, as long as your breaking down your muscles enough, it shouldnt matter.
Maybe the only reason that the competitors lost muscle when lifting lighter was because they didnt go to failure. Im sure all of you guys know that its much harder to go to failure on a lighter weight, than it is a heavier one...


it doesnt make sense that its strictly low reps that preserves, muscle....it makes sense that its only to what degree you tear down your msucles, and you can tear them down w both low and high reps...

What your saying may seem like it makes sense but it doesn't. Let me use the classic cliche example of the sprinter compared to the marathoner. Short intense exercise causes more muscle development. Your partly right about INTENSITY but LOAD also plays a part. When your lifting HEAVY your body will create/spare more muscle. Endurance doesn't require MASS so your body will ditch excess muscle while in a deficit. It also seems to me that lifting heavy is much more intense than lifting light. Also not that I'm not an expert, just speaking from my experience.

[jcosley]

Originally Posted by Pelk

What your saying may seem like it makes sense but it doesn't. Let me use the classic cliche example of the sprinter compared to the marathoner. Short intense exercise causes more muscle development. Your partly right about INTENSITY but LOAD also plays a part. When your lifting HEAVY your body will create/spare more muscle. Endurance doesn't require MASS so your body will ditch excess muscle while in a deficit. It also seems to me that lifting heavy is much more intense than lifting light. Also not that I'm not an expert, just speaking from my experience.

I HATE HATE HATE this example. Why....because people assume sprinters exercise routine is only something compared to HIIT. Ever occur to you that sprinters weight train as well as doing all there sprinting exercises? Just because sprintALL sprinters are ripped and all long distance runners are super thin. Kind of a dumb stereotype if you ask me.

[BadShot25]

How about heavy with low reps and high reps. When I say heavy, I mean it relative to your rep scheme. If you're pushing yourself to get the last few reps out then I would consider it heavy. If you just did a set like it was nothing, then it's obviously light weight and I doubt you'll see much result doing this.

[jcosley]

Originally Posted by BadShot25

How about heavy with low reps and high reps. When I say heavy, I mean it relative to your rep scheme. If you're pushing yourself to get the last few reps out then I would consider it heavy. If you just did a set like it was nothing, then it's obviously light weight and I doubt you'll see much result doing this.

A method I think that works pretty awesome is this.

Stretch
Do a warmup set with a light weight.

Crank it up ....try to get about 3 sets (6-10 reps) in with the last set being about 80% of your max....should be able to get about 3 reps or so.

Last set....do a BURN OUT set. Which I mean...put a lighter weight on for the last set...pry 50-60% of your max and go balls out with however many reps you can get. More then likely you will only be able to get 10 because your muscles will be so tired.

EDIT: Forgot, and try to increase your weights by at least 5-10 lbs every week