YAY! It Looks Like the Recession Is Over!!!

[Lost_it_to_a_9]

sorry bra its just annoying having these uneducated idiots go around acting like they know anything about economics when they themselves have listened to ron paul a couple times on youtube and think they know whats going on. ron paul is a good human being but some of his ideas are crazy.

lol, and that is why Ron Paul isn't president.

Just remember to respect them, and attack their argument, not the person.

[MassTrained]

explain moron.

Watch the god damn video.

Holy **** you're hopeless.

[BIGDAWGZ28]

Oh i agree. Bush spent a lot of money, especially in Iraq.

As for how the debt could have been larger? there are a lot of ways... one reason would be, People losing jobs, more people would start applying for welfare etc. (This would be a huge domino effect, and put us in a depression worst than 1929), or even the fact the US dollar would have collapsed back in November last year when there was an electronic run on the banks, and the Fed stepped in and stopped it by issueing a freeze on money market accounts with a guarantee of 250k, this was when **** got real and people realized how ****in serious this was. With the US dollar collapsing, everything would have been more expensive to buy (imports), and in turn if the government chose to spend later, it could have costed them more to do less.

Now don't jump and say im a democrat etc(not directed at your personally, but others who read this and feel that way)... i consider myself an independent, and i do agree that there are some questionalble things in the stimulus plan, in terms of where money is allocated, but at the end of the day, this stimulus package was badly needed to save the economy.

The stimulus hasnt helped..We are pouring $$ into companies that are going to continue to fail..AIG already took 180 billion and will need more in the future..GM and Chysler are still sliding and the goverment wont let them go into bankruptcy..If these companies were to fail it would sting but there will be a gap in the market place for another company to pick up the pieces..We are selling out our futures to try to save a few companies today..There are banks that are turning profits that were forced to take TARP $$ and arent being allowed to pay it back..To me it seem that the goverment is trying to control the banking system even if the banks are being run properly..

Were at a point now where other countries are starting to look at the US as a bad investment..If China stops buying our debt what happens?Does the goverment stop spending? Not likely..They will do one of 2 things..Maybe both..Start printing more money or start taxing more either way itll destroy the economy

[lynchbuffet]

"You think we can get out of this mess by throwing more imaginary money into it. "

Read that again a couple of more times so it can sink in.

whats this imaginary money? yes they are printing money which equals more debt and more inflation. the debt is too high now they cant worry about that right now, they just need to get out of the recession and run consecutive surpluses year after year. now for inflation...fed is doing great thigns, buying bonds, etc which will lead to zero or almost non existent inflation.

[Lost_it_to_a_9]

Okay so let's say Obama decides to let the market be "free" as you call it. The economy would tank. Stock market low, houses lost, thousands of jobs lost, and we wouldn't see an upside for years maybe 2012. Wait! That's not my point so keep reading. All of this would get blamed on Obama. As the unemployment rate grew these same people would be cursing Obama. These same people would be calling Obama the worst president in history. These same people who ASKED for this will now turn on the man. Yet if he does intervene you still hate him. So basically, you have Obama set up to fail in your mind?

It's an interesting phenomenon.

lol, thats politics man, no matter what you do, there will always be someone who disagrees with you, but you just need to prove your case.

[lynchbuffet]

The stimulus hasnt helped..We are pouring $$ into companies that are going to continue to fail..AIG already took 180 billion and will need more in the future..GM and Chysler are still sliding and the goverment wont let them go into bankruptcy..If these companies were to fail it would sting but there will be a gap in the market place for another company to pick up the pieces..We are selling out our futures to try to save a few companies today..There are banks that are turning profits that were forced to take TARP $$ and arent being allowed to pay it back..To me it seem that the goverment is trying to control the banking system even if the banks are being run properly..

Were at a point now where other countries are starting to look at the US as a bad investment..If China stops buying our debt what happens?Does the goverment stop spending? Not likely..They will do one of 2 things..Maybe both..Start printing more money or start taxing more either way itll destroy the economy

if you let all those companies fail you know many more people are literally ****ED? and then it would be a diff story...ppl cryin they dont have a house/are homeless, etc...you people are hopeless/

[Brutotal]

Okay so let's say Obama decides to let the market be "free" as you call it. The economy would tank. Stock market low, houses lost, thousands of jobs lost, and we wouldn't see an upside for years maybe 2012. Wait! That's not my point so keep reading. All of this would get blamed on Obama. As the unemployment rate grew these same people would be cursing Obama. These same people would be calling Obama the worst president in history. These same people who ASKED for this will now turn on the man. Yet if he does intervene you still hate him. So basically, you have Obama set up to fail in your mind?

It's an interesting phenomenon.

Yeah its this interesting phenomenon where the president drops all his problems on the next one and makes all sorts of short sighted policies so that everyone will love him.

Democracies are temporary in nature because eventually people just keep voting money into their pockets and voting for what will help them rather than what is right. They eventually collapse because a bunch of dumbasses decide hey lets **** the country for the next 200 years rather than let it get bad for the next five.

[BIGDAWGZ28]

if you let all those companies fail you know many more people are literally ****ED? and then it would be a diff story...ppl cryin they dont have a house/are homeless, etc...you people are hopeless/

So you suggest that the goverment continue to prop up failing companies? How much does a company need to lose before its a lost cause?

[The_Best_Day]

I still haven't seen one of these posters logically explain and outline the process of injecting trillions of dollars.

Why?

Because they can't.

[transformation2]

Do you even understand what spending trillions of dollars consists of? I would say no. Just like most people, you are extremely uneducated.

dont gimme that keynesian bs. spending 1$=1.7$ gdp. reduce tax=1$=3$ gdp growth. look it up.

[Lost_it_to_a_9]

The stimulus hasnt helped..We are pouring $$ into companies that are going to continue to fail..AIG already took 180 billion and will need more in the future..GM and Chysler are still sliding and the goverment wont let them go into bankruptcy..If these companies were to fail it would sting but there will be a gap in the market place for another company to pick up the pieces..We are selling out our futures to try to save a few companies today..There are banks that are turning profits that were forced to take TARP $$ and arent being allowed to pay it back..To me it seem that the goverment is trying to control the banking system even if the banks are being run properly..

Were at a point now where other countries are starting to look at the US as a bad investment..If China stops buying our debt what happens?Does the goverment stop spending? Not likely..They will do one of 2 things..Maybe both..Start printing more money or start taxing more either way itll destroy the economy

I don't think either way it will destroy the economy...

First of all, i don't think its fair to say after 1 month the stimulus is a failure, its going to take time for the stimulus to really "stimulate" in the economy.

Debt and the recession are two different issues, and you obviously can't tackle both at the same time. What the government is doing is keynesian economcis, and yes the debt will increase, but once the economy is healthy, there will be tons of opportunity to reduce the debt. There are also many ways that the taxpayers can earn with the toxic assets the government has bought (which will reduce the debt down the road...)

[The_Best_Day]

dont gimme that keynesian bs. spending 1$=1.7$ gdp. reduce tax=1$=3$ gdp growth. look it up.

Do you know how much we are paying in intrest?

[MassTrained]

so what's coming?

Just type out a quick paragraph outlining a couple reasons for this mess, and a couple of the consequences.

please share your knowledge, I don't want it to be too late for me

A reset. That is what is coming. A complete breakdown of society as we all have come to know it. There will be riots, crime will increase exponentially. People will no longer worry about obtaining a dollar, they will worry about getting food and clean water to drink.

There are people in this world that desire power and money over everything else. Those are the people who are sitting in the positions of government and at the top of corporations. This all goes back to control. Everything that is going on in the US right now has been engineered by those with the power, to cull the herd so to speak.

We are livestock to them, they don't give a **** about us. All this talk about Obama and his change and all the other bull**** is simply that, bull****. He has contradicted most everything that he promised during his campaign run. I have no idea why any person on this planet would put so much trust into those that hold the power. This country was founded on For the People, By the People, instead that power has shifted and the government no longer answers to us, we answer to them.

YouTube search Gerald Celente and Peter Schiff, listen to what they say. Listen to how those in the media attempt to discredit them. It's all propaganda. Watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

The rabbit hole is deep, reality is stranger than fiction.

[transformation2]

oh and lol at people saying if economy was free **** would be bad. if they truly reduced sending and revenue. people would get to keep about 25% more of their income. that equals gdp growth. ok poor people will be hurt, but f the poor.only mentally and physically handicapped people deserve welfare anyway.

[transformation2]

Do you know how much we are paying in intrest?

i agree with you. stop spending, reduce debt! cut tax.

[KapelscheVeer]

Okay so let's say Obama decides to let the market be "free" as you call it. The economy would tank. Stock market low, houses lost, thousands of jobs lost, and we wouldn't see an upside for years maybe 2012. Wait! That's not my point so keep reading. All of this would get blamed on Obama. As the unemployment rate grew these same people would be cursing Obama. These same people would be calling Obama the worst president in history. These same people who ASKED for this will now turn on the man. Yet if he does intervene you still hate him. So basically, you have Obama set up to fail in your mind?

It's an interesting phenomenon.

Realistically Obama is an abstract situation. I don't think he came into this qualified to deal with it - like a rookie quarterback filling in for an injured pro-bowler; however, that is not to say he can't deal with it. This situation seems remarkably similar to FDR - Obama can go down as the greatest ever, or ended up somewhere in the bottom 20 percentile. Who knows? I hope he fixes it all, like everyone else. But I am kind of doubtful.

Guess what Einstein, we're ****ed because the corrupt bastards in government have made us ****ed. We have become too complacent over the years and because of that our positions of government have become easily infiltrated.

You still need to watch this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

Standard blame game. Yeah, people are corrupt. Yeah, the rich take advantage of the poor and the lack of economic knowledge in society. But this situation would've never occurred if it weren't for greed at the lower social classes. It isn't just the rich. It is the people who make 7$ an hour who need to drive around in a Lexus, or wear $8,000 Gucci bags when they can't even afford to pay their rent. They run up the bills on credit cards, and file bankruptcy. They finance their house out the ass - for worth nearly double what the house is worth. They buy homes that they can never pay off, because over the next 30 years they won't even earn enough to pay for the house's value. Sure, the financial institutions shouldn't have handed out as many opportunities as they did. But how is it logical in any way to blame the people providing you financial opportunity, for your inability to be an intelligent consumer.

People bicker about all the money that is going to the banks, etc. But where do you want that money to go? You owe the money to those banks. Billions of dollars of debt is owed to banks. People are too pathetic to pay their debts, then when their government steps in to perform their consumer responsibilities they get pissed off the government isn't providing them with more handouts. No ****! So you can go buy more material objects you don't need and can't afford? Can't afford to eat now? Times are tough? Maybe you should have though of that before. The majority of this problem is to blame on the unintelligent consumer that plagues the United States. Worst of all, to save the country - your government needs to save them. By saving them, you end up taking away from those who played by the rules and are getting by just fine right now. Ironic eh?

[lynchbuffet]

A reset. That is what is coming. A complete breakdown of society as we all have come to know it. There will be riots, crime will increase exponentially. People will no longer worry about obtaining a dollar, they will worry about getting food and clean water to drink.

There are people in this world that desire power and money over everything else. Those are the people who are sitting in the positions of government and at the top of corporations. This all goes back to control. Everything that is going on in the US right now has been engineered by those with the power, to cull the herd so to speak.

We are livestock to them, they don't give a **** about us. All this talk about Obama and his change and all the other bull**** is simply that, bull****. He has contradicted most everything that he promised during his campaign run. I have no idea why any person on this planet would put so much trust into those that hold the power. This country was founded on For the People, By the People, instead that power has shifted and the government no longer answers to us, we answer to them.

YouTube search Gerald Celente and Peter Schiff, listen to what they say. Listen to how those in the media attempt to discredit them. It's all propaganda. Watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...19560256183936

The rabbit hole is deep, reality is stranger than fiction.

peter schiff is an idiot. if you would of bought what he recommended you would be down about 60% right now even after the huge market rally.
why listen to the majority? the majority (you included) are ignorant. listen to the experts, the men who know ****.

[The_Best_Day]

i agree with you. stop spending, reduce debt! cut tax.

As of 28 February 2009, the total interest spent ALREADY this fiscal year is $148 Billion.

This kids, is why it's unlogical to keep borrowing trillions.

Logic101.

[lynchbuffet]

As of 28 February 2009, the total interest spent ALREADY this fiscal year is $148 Billion.

This kids, is why it's unlogical to keep borrowing trillions.

Logic101.

you;re point? name one country in a surplus right now and ill give you a cookie.

[MassTrained]

peter schiff is an idiot. if you would of bought what he recommended you would be down about 60% right now even after the huge market rally.
why listen to the majority? the majority (you included) are ignorant. listen to the experts, the men who know ****.

How about we stop talking about it and sit back and see?

Tick tock. Hopefully you make the right decision, for the sake of yourself and your family.

[lynchbuffet]

How about we stop talking about it and sit back and see?

Tick tock. Hopefully you make the right decision, for the sake of yourself and your family.

you deliver mail for a living don't you?

[Lost_it_to_a_9]

As of 28 February 2009, the total interest spent ALREADY this fiscal year is $148 Billion.

This kids, is why it's unlogical to keep borrowing trillions.

Logic101.

The problem with this logic is the failure to ecplain what happens to the economy is the government decided to not spend anything, or even look to reduce the debt during the recession.

[MassTrained]

you deliver mail for a living don't you?

I work for the government.

[thedestro]

hit 9k and crash.

[lynchbuffet]

I work for the government.

....US Mail...thats what I thought brah

[Lost_it_to_a_9]

I work for the government.

lol isn't a mailman, a government job?

[MassTrained]

....US Mail...thats what I thought brah

USPS is both government and private, bruh.

I don't deliver mail for a living. My job is irrelevant to what I have posted.

Perhaps you deserve what is coming to you.

[The_Best_Day]

The problem with this logic is the failure to ecplain what happens to the economy is the government decided to not spend anything, or even look to reduce the debt during the recession.

What would happen? Mass layoffs, business shutting down, etc. A bad recession is what would happen if they let the market take it's course.

That's a free market for ya. Better to deal with it now when it isn't so bad then in 5 years when it REALLY crashes.

But what did they decided to do? Short term fix. They have made this worse then it had to be. And our children are going to pay for it. We've gone past the point of no return, the snowball is effect.

It would be immoral to pass this debt onto future generations - and this is exactly what this bailout would do

The market will bring us to our knees in the end, that's a fact.

[username987654321]

Where do you all do your buying/trading.

I'd like to get into this myself, but I don't know where to begin.

links to forums/websites would be appreciated.

[MassTrained]

Where do you all do your buying/trading.

I'd like to get into this myself, but I don't know where to begin.

links to forums/websites would be appreciated.

http://enterprisecorruption.com/