BULKING AND CUTTING FOR A COMPETITION (or not! ;) )

[oldsuperman]

Diet is a funny thing. So many things go into it besides just eating! It affects not only your body, yet your mind and soul! I have to eat a lot of food at about 230 lbs and about 8%BF with 210 LBM to keep and grow muscle. I'm also 55 yrs old and food has changed in flavor. It takes more spices and herbs to taste palatable. I actually have to force food down at times.

I don't really believe in the "BULKING" concept that many of the bbers and trainers teach these days. I don't believe it is necessary to "PIG OUT" and get up to 14% or more BF to put on muscle. Sean, my conditioning coach proved that to me last year! And it worked beautifully this year keeping my BF about 8 to 10% ALL YEAR LONG.

You see these "BULKING" guys put on so much fat during training season, then as early as 21 wks out from their comp, start to diet hard and start "CUTTING" if you will, and OF COURSE the body is going to rebel! It wants to keep all those fat cells fed and swole! So then the guys lose valuable muscle during their "CUT CYCLE" starting about 20 wks out!!! WHAT A WASTE!!

While these "BULKING" guys are "CUTTING" at 21 weeks, I'm still training hard putting on muscle, getting better. I believe it is a much more livable way to train and DANG! I LOOK GOOD TOO! It really helps when you look in the mirror and don't see a fat belly and man boobs from "bulking up"!

Last year my family and friends all noticed how calm and together I was getting ready for my comps, compared to the previous years before. And I was getting ready to compete in the biggest show of my life as well!

Well, bottom line is, when you're already close to your ideal prep, it only takes about 6 to 8 wks of tweaking to get ready. I'm not saying it isn't tough! HECK YEA it's tough. Yet, easier and more sane then the "heavy bulk" and "cut" way.

The concept my coach says, is once you get to a steady BF and LBM ratio, you can live a 90 - 10% clean eating life style for bbing. What that means is, you eat 90% clean and if your at a birthday party you still eat clean for most of it, yet you have a moderate piece of cake and ice cream. If you out with the guys Monday night, you eat clean, yet have 2 pieces of pizza. You have your cheat meals on your birthday, fathers day, Easter etc. I had a cheat meal on Dads day last year just weeks before Nationals, YET I WAS LEAN! So it had no affect on my.

It's all about having a plan and sticking to it. Once get there to your ideal, and you maintain it for a few years, you learn what works and what doesn't. We are not all the same, yet it never ceases to amaze me how the fat peeps are always the exception. I know all about it, as I was a fatty too with all the excuses! So .... don't BS me!

[bustasinclair]

Sound advice! That is basically my goal after 600 weeks of dieting (); to maintain low BF% while piling on as much lean mass as possible.

I'm so ready to be done dieting, but I want to make sure I get sub 10% before stopping--and by stopping dieting, I mean simply upping clean cals

[freebirdmac]

Great post! Thanks

[kimm4]

Diet is a funny thing. So many things go into it besides just eating! It affects not only your body, yet your mind and soul! I have to eat a lot of food at about 230 lbs and about 8%BF with 210 LBM to keep and grow muscle. I'm also 55 yrs old and food has changed in flavor. It takes more spices and herbs to taste palatable. I actually have to force food down at times.

I don't really believe in the "BULKING" concept that many of the bbers and trainers teach these days. I don't believe it is necessary to "PIG OUT" and get up to 14% or more BF to put on muscle. Sean, my conditioning coach proved that to me last year! And it worked beautifully this year keeping my BF about 8 to 10% ALL YEAR LONG.

You see these "BULKING" guys put on so much fat during training season, then as early as 21 wks out from their comp, start to diet hard and start "CUTTING" if you will, and OF COURSE the body is going to rebel! It wants to keep all those fat cells fed and swole! So then the guys lose valuable muscle during their "CUT CYCLE" starting about 20 wks out!!! WHAT A WASTE!!

While these "BULKING" guys are "CUTTING" at 21 weeks, I'm still training hard putting on muscle, getting better. I believe it is a much more livable way to train and DANG! I LOOK GOOD TOO! It really helps when you look in the mirror and don't see a fat belly and man boobs from "bulking up"!

Last year my family and friends all noticed how calm and together I was getting ready for my comps, compared to the previous years before. And I was getting ready to compete in the biggest show of my life as well!

Well, bottom line is, when you're already close to your ideal prep, it only takes about 6 to 8 wks of tweaking to get ready. I'm not saying it isn't tough! HECK YEA it's tough. Yet, easier and more sane then the "heavy bulk" and "cut" way.

The concept my coach says, is once you get to a steady BF and LBM ratio, you can live a 90 - 10% clean eating life style for bbing. What that means is, you eat 90% clean and if your at a birthday party you still eat clean for most of it, yet you have a moderate piece of cake and ice cream. If you out with the guys Monday night, you eat clean, yet have 2 pieces of pizza. You have your cheat meals on your birthday, fathers day, Easter etc. I had a cheat meal on Dads day last year just weeks before Nationals, YET I WAS LEAN! So it had no affect on my.

It's all about having a plan and sticking to it. Once get there to your ideal, and you maintain it for a few years, you learn what works and what doesn't. We are not all the same, yet it never ceases to amaze me how the fat peeps are always the exception. I know all about it, as I was a fatty too with all the excuses! So .... don't BS me!

This needs to be a sticky...nuff said!!

[oldsuperman]

This needs to be a sticky...nuff said!!

It is one of my blogs. THX tho for the comp!

[ectoBgone]

Totally inspiring, thank you Supe, you've done it again.

[Fifty+]

Diet is a funny thing. So many things go into it besides just eating! It affects not only your body, yet your mind and soul! I have to eat a lot of food at about 230 lbs and about 8%BF with 210 LBM to keep and grow muscle. I'm also 55 yrs old and food has changed in flavor. It takes more spices and herbs to taste palatable. I actually have to force food down at times.

I don't really believe in the "BULKING" concept that many of the bbers and trainers teach these days. I don't believe it is necessary to "PIG OUT" and get up to 14% or more BF to put on muscle. Sean, my conditioning coach proved that to me last year! And it worked beautifully this year keeping my BF about 8 to 10% ALL YEAR LONG.

You see these "BULKING" guys put on so much fat during training season, then as early as 21 wks out from their comp, start to diet hard and start "CUTTING" if you will, and OF COURSE the body is going to rebel! It wants to keep all those fat cells fed and swole! So then the guys lose valuable muscle during their "CUT CYCLE" starting about 20 wks out!!! WHAT A WASTE!!

While these "BULKING" guys are "CUTTING" at 21 weeks, I'm still training hard putting on muscle, getting better. I believe it is a much more livable way to train and DANG! I LOOK GOOD TOO! It really helps when you look in the mirror and don't see a fat belly and man boobs from "bulking up"!

Last year my family and friends all noticed how calm and together I was getting ready for my comps, compared to the previous years before. And I was getting ready to compete in the biggest show of my life as well!

Well, bottom line is, when you're already close to your ideal prep, it only takes about 6 to 8 wks of tweaking to get ready. I'm not saying it isn't tough! HECK YEA it's tough. Yet, easier and more sane then the "heavy bulk" and "cut" way.

The concept my coach says, is once you get to a steady BF and LBM ratio, you can live a 90 - 10% clean eating life style for bbing. What that means is, you eat 90% clean and if your at a birthday party you still eat clean for most of it, yet you have a moderate piece of cake and ice cream. If you out with the guys Monday night, you eat clean, yet have 2 pieces of pizza. You have your cheat meals on your birthday, fathers day, Easter etc. I had a cheat meal on Dads day last year just weeks before Nationals, YET I WAS LEAN! So it had no affect on my.

It's all about having a plan and sticking to it. Once get there to your ideal, and you maintain it for a few years, you learn what works and what doesn't. We are not all the same, yet it never ceases to amaze me how the fat peeps are always the exception. I know all about it, as I was a fatty too with all the excuses! So .... don't BS me!

Yes you can and many of us do.. And really, after awhile it becomes the norm.

[Gary_34]

You may have just changed my mind on an upcoming bulk with this post...

reps on recharge

[LyingSac]

thanks for shining a light on that subject,it makes sense....Sac

[Baldiewonkanobi]

For tastes better again when you turn 68 there sonny.

[aneas]

I agree with you here bulking is not an excuse to get fat and eat a bunch of junk.

A thought: Old Supes is at an elite level most people (at least I am not) are not going to be able to maintain 8% to 10% BF year round. I am able to do 12-14% myself w/o too much difficulty.

[oldsuperman]

I agree with you here bulking is not an excuse to get fat and eat a bunch of junk.

A thought: Old Supes is at an elite level most people (at least I am not) are not going to be able to maintain 8% to 10% BF year round. I am able to do 12-14% myself w/o too much difficulty.

You know, that's a good point. I really don't think it's about where you set your ideal as that you don't yo yo up and down to extremes. Some peeps have a 6 pack at 12% BF. Some, me for example, have to be below 8% BF to see a good set of abs. So most of the time, I have a 4ish pack! And that's ok with me!

[namtrag]

Good stuff, Ed!

My favorite condiment for everything right now is Frank's Red Hot Sauce, I put it on eggs, chicken, tuna, steak, whatever.

Can you let us know a typical food day for you to maintain your 230lbs physique?

[oldsuperman]

Good stuff, Ed!

My favorite condiment for everything right now is Frank's Red Hot Sauce, I put it on eggs, chicken, tuna, steak, whatever.

Can you let us know a typical food day for you to maintain your 230lbs physique?

OK, let's do yesterday.

6:30 AM: 50 gm protein shake, no carbs,

31 mins cardio


8 AM: Protein Belgaum sweet tater waffles. Recipe is:

8 egg whites beaten to soft peaks, vanilla 1 ts, 2 Tbs splenda.
In a blender, 2 whole eggs, 1cp cooked sweet tater, 1/2 cp dry oats, 1/4 ts cinnamon, pinch of nut meg, pinch of salt, 1/4 cp of cottage cheese no fat. BLEND TILL SMOOTH!

Fold the batter into the egg whites. Makes about 6 waffles. Ate em all with about 1/2 cub of Smuckers Boysenberry sugar free syrup.

11 AM, 7oz sirloin steak, green leaf garden salad with balsamic olive oil dressing.

1:30 PM: 50 gm Protein shake, 50 gm Waxy Maize

2 PM: train

3:30 PM: 50 gm Protein shake, 50 gm Waxy Maize, 50 gm dextrose

5 PM: 5 oz ground turkey breast in a home made tomato sauce on 1cp of low carb high protein spaghetti. Garden salad. Cup of asparagus

8 PM: Same as above

10 PM: 2 oz nuts

[DougL]

Man, no wonder I cant gain much muscle these days, I am way undereating looking at OldSups intake.

Better start re-evaluating the nutrition plan.. ummm, well, gotta have one first, lol.

[BJE]

Wow! oldsuperman, I agree with everything you have said here. It's unusual for me to agree with others. I never put on fat for any reason. I stay lean all the time and work on gaining LBM all the time. I have some health reasons for not putting on fat. I think bulking and cutting has to be really bad for your health, and why would a person want to go around fat much of the time.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

I'm re reading. 'Once you get to a steady lean/body fat ratio of 90/10 you maintain'. I'm just about there and following your lead will try to hold that for 14 more months. Supe do you always do a 'water dunk' to verify this ratio? Or, do you SWAG in the mirror? I'm guessing 205 would get me 90/10. (210 this morning) So at 205 (never thought about this before...honestly) I would then be what?....20.5 pounds fat and 184.5 lean. Add 10 pounds back to the lean to be at 5% stage ready and that's 195. YIPES...thats as light as I have ever been on stage. I look my best at 205 so that would mean I too must add 10 pounds of lean mass over then over the next year.

Supe, my main reason to start so early (18 months out) was to tighten my skin. Now you have me also thinking about lean muscle mass percentages. No fair...you said it was going to be easy. Then you are so right about conditioning. Now thats gotta be from head to toe. Last years Over 70 winner's picture is on the wall at my office. He has amazing delts and pecs with vascular arms. His torso looked like a Shar-pei puppy and his legs although shapely had zero cuts. Below the pecs lacked the conditioned look.

Now here is the $64 dollar question...how do you condition? Is it hour long posing sessions holding each pose until you drop? I always did that so I would not shake on stage and always hold a smile. Side effect was deeper cuts...harder looking muscle.

[BJE]

Supe, my main reason to start so early (18 months out) was to tighten my skin.

Excuse me for asking, but how do you tighten skin?

[oldsuperman]

Now here is the $64 dollar question...how do you condition? Is it hour long posing sessions holding each pose until you drop? I always did that so I would not shake on stage and always hold a smile. Side effect was deeper cuts...harder looking muscle.

Well, the first two shows I did, a conditioning coach and trainer is one of the foremost posing coaches in the West Coast watched me on stage. He was at the E Cup and runs the Oregon State. He asked my trainer to have me attend some of his posing classes. So I started.

The guy is a prison guard and tough as nails. He told me one day when I was whoosing out in class, "You should have placed higher last year, but your posing sucked!! Come on Popps!! Get with it!! You want first or another 5th place?" Get my drift what kind of guy he is?!

Anyway, he runs his classes in the basement that is aways hot and sweaty! It's full of bbers and figure models. He marches around yelling like a drill Sargent counting down poses. Some we hold for 30 secs, others for 60 secs. If someone complains or gives up! He yells more and keeps counting the same number till the poser bucks up! He yells "3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3", then IF the poser meets his expectations then, "2, 1, relax!" He stops counting to correct so a 30 sec pose can last a min or more!

He's brutal and drills us for 1-1/2 hours. I go about twice a month six months out. Then at 3 months out I go every Sat. After training, I find an empty room at the gym and post for 15 mins. On Sunday, a day off training, I pose for a 1/2 hr. Well a tie for first, a best poser award at the Empire and beat out all the young muscle head there! Three championships, one over all, and 3 standing O's for posing, cause I was taught by this man! I owe him so much!

At National shows, you have to free pose up to 60 secs on stage by yourself and the music can be hard rock to rap to 50's. Last year I was awful cause I didn't practice transitions and fumbled up there! So this year I'm practicing transitions big time. I'm having my posing coach go over every thing this year as I want to per perfect on that stage.

[Baldiewonkanobi]

Thanx Supe...I thought that was the case. I accidently read that 20 years ago buried in an interview of all people, Joe Weider. Joe was bragging that it was he who was the father of the deep cuts/separations you see on the athletes on stage. He told them to pose for long sessions holding each pose HARD yet smiling up to a minute.

Lose skin...i'll do a sep. thread.

[Analyst]

Interesting...Alan Aragon wrote about this recently (in his November and January Research Review newsletters). He agrees that it certainly can be done and he recommends avoiding the "bulking and cutting" cycles for people just trying to get into shape, new to bodybuilding, etc.

Basically what it boils down to, as OldSupes discussed, is getting your nutrition/macros in order and not pigging out. Keep caloric surplus/deficit near maintenance, and (of course) keep working out/lifting heavy.

He does mention that lean body mass gain may be slower this way, just as weight loss may be slower. It depends on how it's done and the person. But it's actually possible, if you keep calories near maintenance and have everything in order, to see LBM gain and fat loss at the same time (body recomposition). Aragon calls it "culking".

A few other things that promote recomposition include HIIT cardio, plenty of protein and milk consumption.

-A

[stayfit2008]

Hey Sup,..my trainer preaches the same thing! try to keep 10-15lbs. over competition weight! That super bulking stuff,..just aint gonna cut it!!!! bravo Sup! Now get to Pittsburgh so I can come watch you K!ck Some A$$!

[AFChief]

great thread

[afterguard]

Interesting...Alan Aragon wrote about this recently (in his November and January Research Review newsletters). He agrees that it certainly can be done and he recommends avoiding the "bulking and cutting" cycles for people just trying to get into shape, new to bodybuilding, etc.

Basically what it boils down to, as OldSupes discussed, is getting your nutrition/macros in order and not pigging out. Keep caloric surplus/deficit near maintenance, and (of course) keep working out/lifting heavy.

He does mention that lean body mass gain may be slower this way, just as weight loss may be slower. It depends on how it's done and the person. But it's actually possible, if you keep calories near maintenance and have everything in order, to see LBM gain and fat loss at the same time (body recomposition). Aragon calls it "culking".

A few other things that promote recomposition include HIIT cardio, plenty of protein and milk consumption.

-A

I agree with Alan as I'm not a BB for competition, but for sports related fitness. Bulking would be easy for me, but the cutting part would take forever. I like working on lean muscle and reducing body fat in the same program.

[oldsuperman]

Hey Sup,..my trainer preaches the same thing! try to keep 10-15lbs. over competition weight! That super bulking stuff,..just aint gonna cut it!!!! bravo Sup! Now get to Pittsburgh so I can come watch you K!ck Some A$$!

THX! I plan on it!!

I agree with Alan as I'm not a BB for competition, but for sports related fitness. Bulking would be easy for me, but the cutting part would take forever. I like working on lean muscle and reducing body fat in the same program.

It takes discipline to and work to stay consistent with your training and diet. Yet the rewards are amazing!

[plmb1]

Diet is a funny thing. So many things go into it besides just eating! It affects not only your body, yet your mind and soul! I have to eat a lot of food at about 230 lbs and about 8%BF with 210 LBM to keep and grow muscle. I'm also 55 yrs old and food has changed in flavor. It takes more spices and herbs to taste palatable. I actually have to force food down at times.

I don't really believe in the "BULKING" concept that many of the bbers and trainers teach these days. I don't believe it is necessary to "PIG OUT" and get up to 14% or more BF to put on muscle. Sean, my conditioning coach proved that to me last year! And it worked beautifully this year keeping my BF about 8 to 10% ALL YEAR LONG.

You see these "BULKING" guys put on so much fat during training season, then as early as 21 wks out from their comp, start to diet hard and start "CUTTING" if you will, and OF COURSE the body is going to rebel! It wants to keep all those fat cells fed and swole! So then the guys lose valuable muscle during their "CUT CYCLE" starting about 20 wks out!!! WHAT A WASTE!!

While these "BULKING" guys are "CUTTING" at 21 weeks, I'm still training hard putting on muscle, getting better. I believe it is a much more livable way to train and DANG! I LOOK GOOD TOO! It really helps when you look in the mirror and don't see a fat belly and man boobs from "bulking up"!

Last year my family and friends all noticed how calm and together I was getting ready for my comps, compared to the previous years before. And I was getting ready to compete in the biggest show of my life as well!

Well, bottom line is, when you're already close to your ideal prep, it only takes about 6 to 8 wks of tweaking to get ready. I'm not saying it isn't tough! HECK YEA it's tough. Yet, easier and more sane then the "heavy bulk" and "cut" way.

The concept my coach says, is once you get to a steady BF and LBM ratio, you can live a 90 - 10% clean eating life style for bbing. What that means is, you eat 90% clean and if your at a birthday party you still eat clean for most of it, yet you have a moderate piece of cake and ice cream. If you out with the guys Monday night, you eat clean, yet have 2 pieces of pizza. You have your cheat meals on your birthday, fathers day, Easter etc. I had a cheat meal on Dads day last year just weeks before Nationals, YET I WAS LEAN! So it had no affect on my.

It's all about having a plan and sticking to it. Once get there to your ideal, and you maintain it for a few years, you learn what works and what doesn't. We are not all the same, yet it never ceases to amaze me how the fat peeps are always the exception. I know all about it, as I was a fatty too with all the excuses! So .... don't BS me!

Almost every bodybuilder I have ever trained with does this exact same thing. I've been practicing this for atleast 20 years (minus time out because of injuries). I thought this was common knowledge.

This was a great post though. I too think this should be a sticky for all newbies to read..........."IF" they would listen......