Havoc Log

[de_barathrum]

Background info

i am 21 years old, been lifting for about 4 years. i used to be more into powerlifting till i got a herniated disk in my lower back so now i stick more towards bodybuilding. my routines usually rotate between an upper/lower, 4 day split, and a 3 day a week fullbody. because of my back issues i cannot back squat or do any type of deadlifting, but i can front squat and do zercher squats if im feeling up to them. due to inconsistent diet/training over the past few months im kind of working my way back up to where i was 6 months ago.

for this cycle i am going to be running havoc 30/30/30/30 and then nolva 20/20/10/10 for PCT. throughout the cycle i will also be using cycle support, cissus, fish oil and taurine. i also have some DHEA on hand as i have heard this can help if joints get too stiff due to the anti-estrogenic properties of havoc. any suggestions as far as anything else i need would be greatly appreciated.

as far as my diet goes, since i am a student and i have a job, diet is pretty much as much as i can get whenever i can get it. i dont bother with macros, i just make sure to get enough protein and go from there.

stats as of day 1
height: 6'3
weight: 217

My lifts as of now

bench press - 245x5
bent over row - 245x6
front squat - 225x7
zercher squat - 245x5
military press - 155x5

my previous best lifts

bench press - 275x2
bent over row - 295x3
front squat - 275x1
push press - 205x2

[de_barathrum]

Day 1

Weight - 217 lbs
Dose - 20 mg

Energy - 3/5
Stamina - 4/5
Strength - 3/5

front squats - 135x10, 185x8, 205x5, 225x5, 245x2
zercher squats - 135x5, 185x5, 205x5, 205x5, 205x10
ski jump calf raises - 45x20, 45x25, 45x25, 45x25
ab work

General comments - probably too early to tell anything other than placebo. with that being said i definitely had more stamina than usual.

prs bolded

[de_barathrum]

Day 2

Weight - 217 lbs
Dose - 30 mg

Energy - 3/5
Stamina - 4.5/5
Strength - 3/5

close grip bench press - 135x10, 185x10, 205x6, 205x4, 185x6
lat pulldowns - 85x15, 105x10, 130x10, 145x10, 160x10
smith machine incline - 135x10, 135x10, 135x5, 135x6
dumbell curls - 35x10, 40x8, 45x6
cable rows - 85x15, 85x15, 85x15
single arm pushdowns - 30x10, 30x10, 30x10, 30x10, 30x10
machine curls - 70x10, 90x10, 90x10
lateral raises - 10x15, 15x10, 20x10, 20x10, 20x10, 20x10
dumbell shrugs - 70x10, 90x10, 100x10
ab work


General comments - strength wasnt all that impressive but i didnt seem to ever get tired. this is as much volume as ive done in probably 6 months. im trying to bring my arms up during this cycle since they lag pretty badly behind my chest and back, so thats why arm movements are always going to be prioritized. also i had some pretty bad cramps after working out today so i need to up my taurine intake. libido is also up, not sure if that is placebo or not though...

[bigboy15]

Looks good dude. You really should consider taking a before and after picture to be able to have some kind of comparison for yourself, even if you don't want to show anyone else. I know in my experience it's kind of hard to track progress from the mirror because you lose sight of where you were.

Originally Posted by de_barathrum

Day 2

libido is also up

Is that possible brah?

[Strychnine]

Hey bro check out my log under my sig, running an epi bulk (stacked with hdrol). Up 22lbs on day 32.

Your cycle I would rec 5 weeks, 30/30/40/40/40
And the nolva is overkill, epi is mild. while the nolva wont hurt, might want to save it for sdrol, tren, phera.

You could also run a class 2 ph alongside the epi, like 4ad

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by bigboy15

Looks good dude. You really should consider taking a before and after picture to be able to have some kind of comparison for yourself, even if you don't want to show anyone else. I know in my experience it's kind of hard to track progress from the mirror because you lose sight of where you were.




Is that possible brah?

yeah maybe i should take some pics... if i wait any longer the whole before after thing kind of goes out the window though haha.

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

Hey bro check out my log under my sig, running an epi bulk (stacked with hdrol). Up 22lbs on day 32.

Your cycle I would rec 5 weeks, 30/30/40/40/40
And the nolva is overkill, epi is mild. while the nolva wont hurt, might want to save it for sdrol, tren, phera.

You could also run a class 2 ph alongside the epi, like 4ad

hey man, i remember looking through your log earlier, great gains, no doubt about it.

im still new to this thing so im just testing the waters out on this so to speak. ive had some issues with pubertal gyno so i am very cautious with how im approaching this cycle and since i have no problem getting nolva id figure better to err on the side of caution there. but ill definitely take into consideration on running this 5 weeks depending on how i am feeling on week 4. and related to PCT, i was wondering since you are running havoc as well if you are going to do any cortisol control in PCT, or do you think it wont really matter much.

[de_barathrum]

day 3 - off day

Weight - 219 lbs
dose - 30 mg

this is probably as sore as ive been since i have started working out haha. doubling the volume after having so-so workouts for the past month probably wasnt the best way to start this off. i am however, taking full advantage of this and eating as much as i can at every opporotunity. i can already tell this cycle is going to be hell on my joints, so i probably need to keep my reps higher all around.

[Strychnine]

Originally Posted by de_barathrum

hey man, i remember looking through your log earlier, great gains, no doubt about it.

im still new to this thing so im just testing the waters out on this so to speak. ive had some issues with pubertal gyno so i am very cautious with how im approaching this cycle and since i have no problem getting nolva id figure better to err on the side of caution there. but ill definitely take into consideration on running this 5 weeks depending on how i am feeling on week 4. and related to PCT, i was wondering since you are running havoc as well if you are going to do any cortisol control in PCT, or do you think it wont really matter much.

Epi will not give you gyno. Rebound could possibly, but the chances are slim to none unless you altogether didnt do pct. You should use a natty test booster, at the very least tribulus, whether you use nolva or OTC.

I think cortisol control is a hock of ****. I would run 11oxo stacked if I had a free bottle but I wouldnt buy it or ever bridge it into pct. Your pct needs to start right after your main ph ends.

I wouldnt worry much on the joints, whats your volume of sets per workout day?

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

Epi will not give you gyno. Rebound could possibly, but the chances are slim to none unless you altogether didnt do pct. You should use a natty test booster, at the very least tribulus, whether you use nolva or OTC.

I think cortisol control is a hock of ****. I would run 11oxo stacked if I had a free bottle but I wouldnt buy it or ever bridge it into pct. Your pct needs to start right after your main ph ends.

I wouldnt worry much on the joints, whats your volume of sets per workout day?

i have a bottle of activate xtreme, you think that would work?

my volume for lower body is gonna be somewhere around 15ish sets a workout, and my volume for upper will probably be more than double that, so i should probably go to a split instead of upper lower...

[Strychnine]

Activate is perfect for PCT as a natty test booster. Will bring the nuts back within a week.

Then nolva, or 6-oxo, 6-oxo extreme, reversitol, whatever
I will be using 6-oxo and a cheap bottle of Doctors best Trans-resveratrol, some other stuff some bioforge, advanced pct. Probably going overboard but thats only because my bulk doesnt stop here, it stops in August, I need to bring it back for my mid June cycle.

Epi is pretty mild, a few milk duds and a pixy stick would bring you back.

15 sets is borderline low, fine if you are going heavy and drawing out rest times to like 3 mins.

"Double that" is far too high, if you are in the gym for more than 1:15 then youve been in too long. You would be better off sticking to lower volume around 18-24 sets max, drawing out rest times, and going heavy and for max intensity in the 5-10 rep range. Cycle in some nickels here and there to increase your strength to a greater degree. Your bench numbers arent horrible but I think your biggest success will be to focus on strength and get those other numbers up.

Work on your primary exercises as compound movements, Bench, Squat as able, Deadlift as able, Wide Grip Pullups/lat primary, Supinated Chins/Bicep Primary, Dumbell Pullovers, DB rows, Skullcrushers, Dips, Upright Rows, Close Grip Benches, etc.

Forget abs if youre on a true bulk, just gonna make your stomach look bigger until you cut. I usually dont do'em unless I can see em'.


I am subbed for sure and here to watch you exceed all expectations.

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

Activate is perfect for PCT as a natty test booster. Will bring the nuts back within a week.

Then nolva, or 6-oxo, 6-oxo extreme, reversitol, whatever
I will be using 6-oxo and a cheap bottle of Doctors best Trans-resveratrol, some other stuff some bioforge, advanced pct. Probably going overboard but thats only because my bulk doesnt stop here, it stops in August, I need to bring it back for my mid June cycle.

Epi is pretty mild, a few milk duds and a pixy stick would bring you back.

15 sets is borderline low, fine if you are going heavy and drawing out rest times to like 3 mins.

"Double that" is far too high, if you are in the gym for more than 1:15 then youve been in too long. You would be better off sticking to lower volume around 18-24 sets max, drawing out rest times, and going heavy and for max intensity in the 5-10 rep range. Cycle in some nickels here and there to increase your strength to a greater degree. Your bench numbers arent horrible but I think your biggest success will be to focus on strength and get those other numbers up.

Work on your primary exercises as compound movements, Bench, Squat as able, Deadlift as able, Wide Grip Pullups/lat primary, Supinated Chins/Bicep Primary, Dumbell Pullovers, DB rows, Skullcrushers, Dips, Upright Rows, Close Grip Benches, etc.

Forget abs if youre on a true bulk, just gonna make your stomach look bigger until you cut. I usually dont do'em unless I can see em'.


I am subbed for sure and here to watch you exceed all expectations.

definitely appreciate the input man. yeah, im thinking i need to split my upper day into a chest/arms, back/shoulders day to keep my time in the gym down. that will allow me to hit everything with higher volume and keep the gym time down to a minimum and also allow adequate rest. and i do agree with what you are saying about me needing to get my strength up. ive been around this level for way too long so i think its time to just break break completely through the plateau.

the whole reason i do abs is because of my back. if i dont do ab work consistently (though zerchers/front squats do a hell of a job on their own) my back starts getting iffy, so its more of a balance thing than an aesthetic thing.

[Strychnine]

I usually do something like this...

Day 1 - 4-5 sets of Squats, 2-4 Shoulder Press, 2-4 WG Pullups, 2-4 DB Pullover, 2-4 Lateral delt raises, 2-3 shrugs

Day 2 - 3-5 sets BB Bench, 2-3 Flat DB Bench, 1-2 DB fly, 3-4 squats, 1-2 Plate raises (anterior delt), 2-3 dips or CG bench, 2-3 DB skullcrushers. 2-3 Upright Row

Day 3 Off

Day 4 - 3-4 Deadlift, 4-5 DB Row HEAVY, 3-4 DB Delt Fly HEAVY, 4-5 Supinated Chins, 2-4 EZ curl or DB incline Curl or Conc curl, 1-2 Hammer Curl,

Day 5 = day 1.


So I end up squatting 2 out of every 4 days, which has done wonders, and is necessary since my gym I really cant do much else beside lunge and I would rather squat heavy than lunge any day of the week.

Having a 2 on 1 off rotates the priority of each workout, as day 5 is now day 1, but is not "fresh" after an off day, instead this time it follows a work day. If I need an extra day off, I just take one, no harm no foul no problem. Usually grabbing another day off every two weeks or so is a good thing.

Also I cycle through different exercises, the only thing I consistently do is Back+Biceps+posterior delt, Chest+Triceps+anterior delt. The rest is just filler for shoulders and lats really. i just do enough to keep me in the 18-24 set range, possibly going to 28 sets max but usually when I do that, the scale doesnt budge as much as it should if I had done lower volume.

But the fundamentals are using compound movements and lifting heavy with moderate volume and high intensity. And eating a **** ton of food, all day long.

[de_barathrum]

day 4 - off

weight - 220 lbs
dose - 30mg

still sore today. probably going to do a lighter legs day tomorrow since my glutes/inner hamstrings are still pretty tore up. other than that, no sides or anything, just eating like a horse waiting for it to kick in.

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

I usually do something like this...

Day 1 - 4-5 sets of Squats, 2-4 Shoulder Press, 2-4 WG Pullups, 2-4 DB Pullover, 2-4 Lateral delt raises, 2-3 shrugs

Day 2 - 3-5 sets BB Bench, 2-3 Flat DB Bench, 1-2 DB fly, 3-4 squats, 1-2 Plate raises (anterior delt), 2-3 dips or CG bench, 2-3 DB skullcrushers. 2-3 Upright Row

Day 3 Off

Day 4 - 3-4 Deadlift, 4-5 DB Row HEAVY, 3-4 DB Delt Fly HEAVY, 4-5 Supinated Chins, 2-4 EZ curl or DB incline Curl or Conc curl, 1-2 Hammer Curl,

Day 5 = day 1.


So I end up squatting 2 out of every 4 days, which has done wonders, and is necessary since my gym I really cant do much else beside lunge and I would rather squat heavy than lunge any day of the week.

Having a 2 on 1 off rotates the priority of each workout, as day 5 is now day 1, but is not "fresh" after an off day, instead this time it follows a work day. If I need an extra day off, I just take one, no harm no foul no problem. Usually grabbing another day off every two weeks or so is a good thing.

Also I cycle through different exercises, the only thing I consistently do is Back+Biceps+posterior delt, Chest+Triceps+anterior delt. The rest is just filler for shoulders and lats really. i just do enough to keep me in the 18-24 set range, possibly going to 28 sets max but usually when I do that, the scale doesnt budge as much as it should if I had done lower volume.

But the fundamentals are using compound movements and lifting heavy with moderate volume and high intensity. And eating a **** ton of food, all day long.

yeah, thats probably the best way to go. probably be best to mediate my volume some and focus on upping the weight. might as well take advantage of the strength gains while i can. im really trying to focus on arms/delts/calves on this cycle more than anything because those are the areas im having the biggest problems in. building my chest/back/thighs are not a problem at all, so i figure ill just do a pretty basic split along the lines of what you described above, just with emphasis on my problem areas.

[de_barathrum]

Day 5

Weight - 220 lbs
Dose - 30 mg

Energy - 2.5/5
Stamina - 4/5
Strength - 3/5

front squats - 135x10, 185x6, 185x10,185x12,
GHR - bwx6, bwx6, bwx1 (all assisted)
zercher squats - 135x7, 185x12, 185x10, 185x8
ski jump calf raises - 45x25, 45x30

General comments - yesterday i was barely able to walk and today i woke up and was magically not sore at all. i still decided to keep this workout a little lighter than i would otherwise because my thighs were feeling kind of tired on front squats so i cut back on the volume and weight some. i can tell my recovery is already improving, but other than that no real sides yet. tomorrow is chest/tris/shoulders, cant wait.

[de_barathrum]

Day 6 - chest/shoulders/triceps

Weight - ???
Dose - 30 mg

Energy - 4/5
Stamina - 4.5/5
Strength - 4/5

close grip bench press - 135x10, 185x5, 225x5, 245x5, 255x3, 225x6
military press - 95x10, 135x5, 145x5, 135x5
incline press - 135x10, 155x10, 155x8
tricep extensions - 45x15, 65x10, 95x6, 65x10
single arm lateral raises - 20x10, 20x12, 25x10, 25x12, 20x10
dumbell overhead press - 25x25, 25x20

General comments - great workout. this was at my home gym so the weights are a little off compared to what they would be at my school gym, but i felt strong none-the-less. i am close grip benching what i was benching last week so i think the havoc is starting to kick in. no other sides to report other than strength/endurance/recovery gains. i am taking tomorrow off, but thursday i am hitting back/bis/forearms. i have a feeling im gonna be setting a few PRs.

[de_barathrum]

day 7 - off

weight -221
dose - 30mg

weight is going up slowly but surely. libidio is up, aggression is slightly up. no other sides except my lower back is very sore today and i have no idea why. i started to get some back pumps during yesterdays workout so that might be why, but yesterday was chest/shoulders/tris so i dont really see how that would hit my lower back much...

[de_barathrum]

Day 8 - back/bis/forearms
Weight - 222
Dose - 30 mg

Energy - 3/5
Stamina - 4/5
Strength - 4/5

bent over rows - 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 245x5, 275x5, 295x3, 225x10, 185x12
pullups 4, 4, 4 (lol)
barbell curls - 45x10, 95x10, 115x6, 95x8, 95x7, 95x6
btb wrist curls - 95x15, 95x15, 95x15, 95x15

back was still hella sore today so i had to take a naoproxen even though NSAIDS are a bad idea while on, though i figured 1 wont be that big of a deal. i still managed to get a decent workout in though i was kind of tired all the way through because i didnt get enough sleep + busy day today.

[de_barathrum]

week 1 synopsis

so far so good. strength is going up, bodyweight is going up, recovery is up as well and no real sides that can be directly attributed to havoc. aggression and libido seem to be up at times, but thats kind of how i always am so im not putting that on the havoc. week 2 is when the gains are really supposed to start so im eager to see how this is gonna go.

[de_barathrum]

day 9 - off

weight - 224
dose 30 mg

looks like weight is really starting to go up. 7 lbs in 8 days, i might actually be gaining a little too fast. any input there?

[Strychnine]

Mostly water and initial muscle gain. Just eat clean and keep the cals high. Reassess in a week.

[de_barathrum]

day 10 - legs

weight - ??
dose - 30mg

energy - 4.5/5
strength - 4.5/5
stamina - 4/5

front squats - 135x10, 185x5, 205x5, 225x5, 245x5, 255x2, 225x5, 185x10
zercher squats - 135x5, 225x3, 245x3, 275x4
calf work
ab work

comments - good workout. started out slow and built up like a mother****er culminating in my last set of zercher squats. i think i can do alot more than i have been on zercher squats but i always hold myself back some due to past injuries. im starting to get kind of curious though to see how much i really can do on them though... tomorrow chest/shoulders/tris

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

Mostly water and initial muscle gain. Just eat clean and keep the cals high. Reassess in a week.

haha, i think the eating clean is my problem. ive become a frequent patron of whataburger lately so i gotta cut down on that some.

[de_barathrum]

Day 11 - chest/shoulders/triceps

Weight - 226
Dose - 30 mg

Energy - 4.5/5
Stamina - 4.5/5
Strength - 4.5/5

close grip bench press - 135x10, 185x5, 225x5, 255x5, 265x4, 225x6
military press - 95x10, 135x5, 155x3, 135x7, 135x4
supersetted with
1 arm lateral raises - 10x15, 10x20, 10x20
incline press - 135x10, 155x10, 185x5
tricep extensions - 45x15, 65x10, 65x8, 65x18
single arm lateral raises - 25x15, 25x15, 25x10

solid workout. 300 is right around the corner on bench. other than that not much to say, bodyweight is going up, strength is going up and i feel great.

[Strychnine]

pop it up to 40mg!

[de_barathrum]

Day 12 - off

weight - ??
dose - 30 mg

Day 13 - back/bis

weight - ??
dose - 30 mg

energy - 3/5
strength - 5/5
stamina - 4/5

bent over rows - 135x5, 185x5, 225x5, 245x5, 295x5, 245x8, 225x8, 185x12 - bands
chin ups - 4, 4, 4 (facepalm)
shrugs - 185x15, 275x12, 275x12
curls - 95x5, 115x5, 125x4, 95x8, 95x5, 95x4

I had pretty much zero energy going into this workout, but it still turned out to be a good one. sides are finally starting to set in, so far its just mild lethargy and some aching in my nuts. i think my natural test levels are really starting to take a dive because my aggression/libido/overall energy are starting to go down, but i guess thats to be expected.

[de_barathrum]

Originally Posted by Strychnine

pop it up to 40mg!

if i had an extra bottle of havoc i probably would haha. i am really thinking about ordering another one though... lets see how this week plays out...

[de_barathrum]

day 15 - legs

weight - 225
dose - 30mg

energy - 2.5/5
strength - 4/5
stamina - 3/5

front squats - 135x10, 185x5, 205x5, 225x5, 255x5, 225x8
zercher squats - 135x5, 225x3, 275x1, 315x1
GHR - x x x
calf work

so my bodyweight has actually gone down these last few days even though my cals are pretty much the same. the only real difference is that i am sleeping 10+ hours a day right now because lethargy is kicking in like a mother****er. if anyone has any ideas on how to combat this i would really appreciate, because if this doesnt start getting better i am going to have to end the cycle because i cannot afford to be sleeping this much. other than that no other sides really. strength is still going up. i am going to up the cals some more and reevaluate in a few days.

[vinny333]

Nice log subbed.. on 4th day of havoc myslef...
seeing though you started on 217 id say your weight is progressing very well, did you take any b4 pics?