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  1. #1
    Registered User SunshineMVP's Avatar
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    Why is Dairy and Bread bad for cutting phase?

    I want to lose my thigh butt and tummy fat, it's the only layer I can't seem to get rid off. I have pretty good muscle tone and now would like to shed the fat that's on top to make it show. I do mostly what I should be doing (5-6 meals, lots of lean protein, watch the sodium, eat about 1600 cals a day carbs with protein in the am, fiber protein and fats in the eve, workout 5-6 days a week with cardio resistance and weights and change up my routines) I do have a Saturday where I let myself have frozen yogurt or and a glass of wine, maybe take a bike of chocolate or have a cookie. But lately I've been feeling like I'm not getting anywhere, so I wanted to try the cutting phase diet, but what I don't understand is why is non fat dairy and whole wheat bread bad in the cutting phase? Can someone please explain?

    Also could you guys give me any tips? What I should eat? what cardio to do and when? And how much? I do an hour right now (either elliptical, spin class or running the hiking trails) I have to work out in the evening (at 7 pm) due to my schedule, so what foods should I switch up or change? Any advise would so very helpful

    PS: I tend to crave carbs a lot and my problem area is my back side

    Thanks!
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  2. #2
    Registered User rejected's Avatar
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    Dairy and bread are not bad for cutting. It's probably the people that do keto that tell you it's bad. You might need to do more cardio, or cut your calories down a bit.
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    Registered User BiGGz28's Avatar
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    dairy and bread arent bad for cutting but you have to watch the types of dairy or bread you consume

    for instance its not good to drink 2% milk due to the level of fat so you should drink skim, ideally

    and if you eat bread it should be whole grain for the complex carbs, not white bread
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    Registered User Vietgoboi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BiGGz28 View Post
    dairy and bread arent bad for cutting but you have to watch the types of dairy or bread you consume

    for instance its not good to drink 2% milk due to the level of fat so you should drink skim, ideally

    and if you eat bread it should be whole grain for the complex carbs, not white bread
    Why tho? Wasn't losing weight due to caloric deficit?
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  5. #5
    Registered User calislug's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vietgoboi View Post
    Why tho? Wasn't losing weight due to caloric deficit?
    Whole wheat bread has more fiber which will keep your hunger satiated for longer. White bread has refined carbs, which are not good according to broscience for various reasons. White Bread definitely does not kill you, there are just better options.

    As far as dairy goes, I see no reason why drinking 2% milk is suicidal for a cut. I would rather get my fat from other more healthier sources though. I do eat 2% cottage cheese usually, but keep my yogurt and milk fat free. My fat comes from almonds and natural peanut butter.
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  6. #6
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    well yea, ive always had questions about quality vs quanity(and never truly had them answered) because in theory it really shouldnt matter what you eat just the amount but nutrtion is nutrition and some things are better than others , but its not like if you drink 2% milk during a cut cycle it'll negate all you're hard work , just ideally skim is better, ya kno
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    White bread has modified carbs as stated before. It has a higher glycemic index which leads to an insulin spike. If your insulin spikes and then crashes at times other than post work out, the body is more likely to store the carbohydrates as fat. Whole grains on the other hand (wheat bread) are processed by the body slower than modified carbs, and result in a steady insulin release/level that adds to feeling full, and are less likely to be stored as fat. Think about which rain is better for the lawn. A downpour will run off like crazy, but a steady rain will give the ground time to soak it up and give it to the plants.
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    Originally Posted by BiGGz28 View Post
    dairy and bread arent bad for cutting but you have to watch the types of dairy or bread you consume

    for instance its not good to drink 2% milk due to the level of fat so you should drink skim, ideally

    and if you eat bread it should be whole grain for the complex carbs, not white bread
    what he said
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  9. #9
    Registered User Vietgoboi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Froglegs88 View Post
    White bread has modified carbs as stated before. It has a higher glycemic index which leads to an insulin spike. If your insulin spikes and then crashes at times other than post work out, the body is more likely to store the carbohydrates as fat. Whole grains on the other hand (wheat bread) are processed by the body slower than modified carbs, and result in a steady insulin release/level that adds to feeling full, and are less likely to be stored as fat. Think about which rain is better for the lawn. A downpour will run off like crazy, but a steady rain will give the ground time to soak it up and give it to the plants.
    This only matters if we have excess calories, right?
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  10. #10
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    White bread has pretty much no nutritional value so many people say eat whole grain/wheat bread because there is some nutrition there but its all preference. The same people would probably say never drink beer on a cut either.

    2% Milk has more fat in it than skim milk making it have more calories so you can drink more glasses of skim milk than 2% milk to get the same calories. Milk is actually great for you (cutting or not) so you don't need to cut that out just account for the calories in your intake.

    No food is a cut killer. Moderation is key.
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    You do that every single day, and soon you'll have a wall.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by rejected View Post
    Dairy and bread are not bad for cutting. It's probably the people that do keto that tell you it's bad. You might need to do more cardio, or cut your calories down a bit.
    What's Keto exactly? I Googled it and it doesn't make sense to me, is it just really really low carb diet? I thought if you don't give your body enough carbs it won't lose the fat rather store it? Or am I wrong?

    Also about moderation, I eat 1/2 C of dry oats to 1 C water with a scoop of natural Whey, 3 hours later 1C no sodium non fat cottage cheese, sometimes with whole wheat English Muffin and sometimes just without anything (on lower carb days) 3 H later 5oz grilled chicken light salt, cooking spray with 1/2C cooked brown rice and broccoli with spinach, 3H later non fat Greek yogurt with cottage cheese, 3H later 5oz grilled chick. with broc and spinach and 1TB olive oil, then 2 hours later gym, and when I get home I have more cottage cheese or protein shake of just a scoop of protein on water..

    This is my diet Mon-Fri
    weekends I might change it up a bit (Sat I might have a glass of wine or fro yo) but same concept and I do hikes and spin class

    What am I doing wrong? Any advise? Thanks!
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  12. #12
    Misc. Weatherman B_Nelley35's Avatar
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    Try Keto. I love it. I never feel that carb bloat, and the fat comes off.

    Here's my sample diet, I'm 5'7" 179 currently.
    Breakfast: 3-4 Egg Whites, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil, 1 tsp. Natty PB

    Meal #2: 40g ON Whey, 1 tsp. Natty PB

    Lunch: Steak/Chicken, Green Beans

    Meal #3: 40g ON Whey, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil

    (PRE WO) Meal #4: 1 Block Dark Chocolate, 40g ON Whey, 1 Piece of Fruit

    (POST WO) Meal #5: 40g ON Whey, Dextrose

    Dinner: Steak/Chicken, Green Beans

    Pre-Bed: 1-2 tsp. Nat PB, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil

    I have a cheat day every Sunday. Doesn't mean I splurge, but just have something I like (like today I'm having a Rita's Gelati...it's a PA thing)

    I haven't added my carb intake up, but it is pretty low. The most carbs I consume are pre workout.
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  13. #13
    Registered User Vietgoboi's Avatar
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    Keto is high fat, moderate protein, low carb (30g under) diet.

    Weight loss is result of caloric deficit, doesn't matter what diet your on.

    Keto differ from other diets, because of dry look from flat muscle w/o carbs & water. Body produce ketone to fuel daily activities. Fat take a longer time for the body to breakdown to digest and the benefit is keeping you fuller.
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    Misc. Weatherman B_Nelley35's Avatar
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    I'd add more good fats to your diet. Fat is truly misunderstood, and the more I eat (of course fitting into my macros), the better I feel and the more fat I tend to lose.
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    Originally Posted by B_Nelley35 View Post
    Try Keto. I love it. I never feel that carb bloat, and the fat comes off.

    Here's my sample diet, I'm 5'7" 179 currently.
    Breakfast: 3-4 Egg Whites, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil, 1 tsp. Natty PB

    Meal #2: 40g ON Whey, 1 tsp. Natty PB

    Lunch: Steak/Chicken, Green Beans

    Meal #3: 40g ON Whey, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil

    (PRE WO) Meal #4: 1 Block Dark Chocolate, 40g ON Whey, 1 Piece of Fruit

    (POST WO) Meal #5: 40g ON Whey, Dextrose

    Dinner: Steak/Chicken, Green Beans

    Pre-Bed: 1-2 tsp. Nat PB, 1 tsp. Flax Seed Oil

    I have a cheat day every Sunday. Doesn't mean I splurge, but just have something I like (like today I'm having a Rita's Gelati...it's a PA thing)

    I haven't added my carb intake up, but it is pretty low. The most carbs I consume are pre workout.
    The funny thing is I just quit PB because I was ADDICTED to it! I tried doing 2 TB in the am and then 2 TB in the eve, but them sometimes I'd over do it and end up eating like half the jar!! I LOVE pb and I get the Natural kind MaraNatha is my fave I also get their almond butter.(www.worldpantry.com) Ok so I weighed myself I am 147 UGH I was 138 about 2-3 months ago, so I thought it was the PB (it could have been if I ate more than I should have) But how many grams of each should I eat? and cals consume, if I'm 147lb, 24 years old, 5'5 tall?

    Alos, since I work out in the eve (7pm) is it ok for me to eat that small amount of Carbs before the work out even though it's late? So like at 5pm can I eat 1/2C brown rice?

    Thanks for the advise!!
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    I know some here will say all that matters is calorie deficit ... but I also think the saying you are what you eat holds some truth to it. If you eat a diet of honey buns and coke but stay at a calorie deficit you will probably lose weight. But will you maintain lean mass in the process? I don't think so ... but I really don't know. If you eat healthier foods, stay at a calorie deficit, and exercise regularly, you will lose weight but probably save a lot of the lean mass and shed the fat.

    I also don't think it matters too much when you eat ... especially if you are eating healthy. Though ... again ... nobody will convince me that eating a honey bun right before bed is good even though you are still at a calorie deficit.

    These are just my opinions and I very well may be wrong. I think a good goal is to eat enough protein in a day that equals 1g per 1lb lean body mass (or higher) and keep the fat below 20% of calories. Other than that ... common sense will probably guide you in the right direction.
    "The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you're a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black. I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds." ~Henry Rollins
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    Originally Posted by FloridaGator View Post
    I know some here will say all that matters is calorie deficit ... but I also think the saying you are what you eat holds some truth to it. If you eat a diet of honey buns and coke but stay at a calorie deficit you will probably lose weight. But will you maintain lean mass in the process? I don't think so ... but I really don't know. If you eat healthier foods, stay at a calorie deficit, and exercise regularly, you will lose weight but probably save a lot of the lean mass and shed the fat.

    I also don't think it matters too much when you eat ... especially if you are eating healthy. Though ... again ... nobody will convince me that eating a honey bun right before bed is good even though you are still at a calorie deficit.

    These are just my opinions and I very well may be wrong. I think a good goal is to eat enough protein in a day that equals 1g per 1lb lean body mass (or higher) and keep the fat below 20% of calories. Other than that ... common sense will probably guide you in the right direction.
    Thanks I do appreciate your opinion! I felt the same way and really I guess I am just trying everything I can at this point bc it feels the more I do the more I gain?! Anyway it might have been the increase of chocolate on weekends I have been eating more than usual on weekends than I have before... No more! I have been eating very well since last Monday! my only cheat was Fro Yo yesterday and a small glass of white wine Fri night.
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    Originally Posted by SunshineMVP View Post
    Thanks I do appreciate your opinion! I felt the same way and really I guess I am just trying everything I can at this point bc it feels the more I do the more I gain?! Anyway it might have been the increase of chocolate on weekends I have been eating more than usual on weekends than I have before... No more! I have been eating very well since last Monday! my only cheat was Fro Yo yesterday and a small glass of white wine Fri night.
    Don't lose too much junk in the trunk though

    It looks like you are doing a good job but everyone hits a wall. I think that is when attitude needs to take over to get you through it. Life is peaks and valleys ... everyone has a good attitude at the peaks (or valleys in fat loss I guess) but what really matters is what is one's attitude in the valley?

    Keep on keeping on!
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    Originally Posted by Vietgoboi View Post
    Keto is high fat, moderate protein, low carb (30g under) diet.

    Weight loss is result of caloric deficit, doesn't matter what diet your on.

    Keto differ from other diets, because of dry look from flat muscle w/o carbs & water. Body produce ketone to fuel daily activities. Fat take a longer time for the body to breakdown to digest and the benefit is keeping you fuller.
    So does Keto diet mean little water as well?? How little are talking about and you can't do this for long I'm assuming?
    Thanks!
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    Originally Posted by SunshineMVP View Post
    So does Keto diet mean little water as well?? How little are talking about and you can't do this for long I'm assuming?
    Thanks!
    Highly recommend drinking alot of water on ketogenic diet.
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    Originally Posted by SunshineMVP View Post
    So does Keto diet mean little water as well?? How little are talking about and you can't do this for long I'm assuming?
    Thanks!
    No, you drink the same amount of water. (a lot)
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    Originally Posted by SunshineMVP View Post
    So does Keto diet mean little water as well?? How little are talking about and you can't do this for long I'm assuming?
    Thanks!
    What he means about the dry look is because your muscles are made up of muscle fibers and water(mostly). Carbs help transport the water to the muscles to make them look fuller so your muscles will look more deflated on keto due to the lack of carbs.

    You need a sufficient amount of water regardless of what diet your on.

    If your looking for info on keto go to the nutrition forum and there is a sub-forum there just for keto and keto diets. Really good info there.
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    As long as you eat it in moderation in your caloric weight loss range your fine. You wont loose LBM as long as you keep your protein intake up as well.
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    research has been conducted and suggests that dairy can play a significant role in weight loss due to its rich calcium content. as a woman dairy is important in your diet for bone health especially. alot of the time by bread people mean white processed bread which is usually lower in calories than whole wheat or grain bread but more processed and with less fiber etc. i think when people diet they just try to cut out anything that seems unecissary like dairy and breads i guess cause you dont need bread for a sandwhich if you make it a salad and you dont need bread and butter on the side if you put lean protein on your salad and you dont need milk on your cereal if you have oatmeal with water or just have egg whites instead. its definately about energy in energy out but i guess dairy and breads seem to be unecissary and can build the calories significantly without you realising it.
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    It's funny, I drink milk and eat bread daily and my cut is going great.

    Feel free to check out my thread about my 3 month progress to see just how much bread and milk hurt you on a cut:

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=115221541
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    was drinking 2% milk the entire time i did my first 100lb loss.
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    Originally Posted by AmenoKaji View Post
    was drinking 2% milk the entire time i did my first 100lb loss.
    Congrats! Your journey is inspiring!
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    Originally Posted by AmenoKaji View Post
    was drinking 2% milk the entire time i did my first 100lb loss.
    Great job so far, Kaji. You're halfway to your goal.
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    4/1/08 ~ 200lbs ~ 11% BF
    7/17/08 ~ 232lbs ~ 18% BF
    11/10/08 ~ 208lbs ~ 12% BF
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    haha thanks guys, definately hitting it this year hopefully within a few more months.
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    Smile

    Originally Posted by LoveANurse View Post
    research has been conducted and suggests that dairy can play a significant role in weight loss due to its rich calcium content. as a woman dairy is important in your diet for bone health especially. alot of the time by bread people mean white processed bread which is usually lower in calories than whole wheat or grain bread but more processed and with less fiber etc. i think when people diet they just try to cut out anything that seems unecissary like dairy and breads i guess cause you dont need bread for a sandwhich if you make it a salad and you dont need bread and butter on the side if you put lean protein on your salad and you dont need milk on your cereal if you have oatmeal with water or just have egg whites instead. its definately about energy in energy out but i guess dairy and breads seem to be unecissary and can build the calories significantly without you realising it.

    good post. =)

    to the o.p.: i carry most of my fat between below my belly button & 1/2 way up my thighs front & back like you do. i have a big bum, which i love & don't ever want to go away. but i also have a "man gut". you don't seem to have this. instead you have more hips/thighs. that's probably what i'd prefer to tell you the truth. =/

    anyway. my lower 1/2 is going away proportionately. but my bum has always been slower to leave. & as i said, i love it. haha. i just can't wait for this man gut to go away. =P

    also, i feel your pain w/ the peanut butter. i go through insane amounts. i get the 2kg crunchy no name from superstore/extra foods. i bought 1 late last week, & it's already 1/2 empty. lawlorz. /m\ (i'm also a sucker for cottage cheese. but that's not bad. ) but i'm practising for my i.c.e. evaluation for group fitness (dance/step/bootcamp/etc) ONTOP of my regular cardio/lifting. i'll be getting i.c.e.'d by the end of april. so, i'm starting to practise quite a bit during this final stretch. so, it's not stalling my progress whatsoever. & i'm still managing to lose my fat slowly/steadily. i guess maybe you should maybe add some extra activity into your social life, gym routine, etc.

    however, i don't eat chocolate or anything like that. peanut butter is my only "junk food" of choice. so, as you said, that may be where you're going wrong. =S
    Last edited by trance__dreamer; 03-29-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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