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    How much EPA/DHA per day?

    Been looking into which Omega-3 supplement to buy and was just wondering if there was a recommended amount of EPA or DHA per day? It seems each brand offers a different amount per serving and was just wondering what was optimal? Thanks.
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    To see any effect, up to 6g/day total EPA+DHA. Anything less than 2 does not affect body composition. To be taken all the time, no cycling.
    Pay attention to a blood thining capability of omega 3's. If you have any medical problems or are taking blood thiners, talk to your MD.
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    Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
    To see any effect, up to 6g/day total EPA+DHA. Anything less than 2 does not affect body composition. To be taken all the time, no cycling.
    Pay attention to a blood thining capability of omega 3's. If you have any medical problems or are taking blood thiners, talk to your MD.
    1-3gr should be enough. I do take two 0.6 gr caps daily.
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    I just talked to a nutritionist about this. This may help:

    "It seems like the amount that is beneficial depends on the study and the disease you are trying to prevent. It can be as low as 180 mg. for dementia prevention up to 1000 mg for decreasing mental illness. For heart disease 500-800 mg may be enough but some studies have gone up to 2 grams per day. I think as long as the amount does not cause gastro-intestinal effects in you, the larger amount is OK. Again realize that there is no control over how much really is in these supplements. A few brands have not had the potency that was listed on the label. I have seen one article that said taking smaller amounts throughout the day may help control burping or heartburn."
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  8. #8
    Registered User |}373r/\/\1n3|)'s Avatar
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    thanks for that link and all the info so far guys
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  9. #9
    Registered User |}373r/\/\1n3|)'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jphansen View Post
    I just talked to a nutritionist about this. This may help:

    "It seems like the amount that is beneficial depends on the study and the disease you are trying to prevent. It can be as low as 180 mg. for dementia prevention up to 1000 mg for decreasing mental illness. For heart disease 500-800 mg may be enough but some studies have gone up to 2 grams per day. I think as long as the amount does not cause gastro-intestinal effects in you, the larger amount is OK. Again realize that there is no control over how much really is in these supplements. A few brands have not had the potency that was listed on the label. I have seen one article that said taking smaller amounts throughout the day may help control burping or heartburn."
    interesting, thx for the info
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  10. #10
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    Muscular Development magazine - fish oil is good for heart, but bad for muscle gains. April 2008 issue.
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    Originally Posted by AHA's (American Heart Association) View Post
    Patients without documented coronary heart disease (CHD) - Eat a variety of (preferably fatty) fish at least twice a week. Include oils and foods rich in alpha-linolenic acid (flaxseed, canola and soybean oils; flaxseed and walnuts).

    Patients with documented CHD - Consume about 1 g of EPA+DHA per day, preferably from fatty fish.

    Patients who need to lower triglycerides - 2 to 4 grams of EPA+DHA per day.
    Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
    To see any effect, up to 6g/day total EPA+DHA. Anything less than 2 does not affect body composition.
    Where did you get those #'s from?
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by __AM__ View Post
    Where did you get those #'s from?
    Bro science as usual
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by msauka View Post
    Bro science as usual
    Not really.... and check the referenes on the bottom before you call me a 'bro' again
    Reference from:
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info...ST;f=13;t=4636
    Bryan Haycock, an expert on training and nutrition in the field of muscle hypertrophy

    CLA and EFAs


    Try to get 2-6 grams per day of EPA+DHA. The FDA has only approved 2 grams per day because of the ability of omega-3s to thin the blood (reduce clotting). However, if you are not at risk of bleeding abnormalities, anywhere up to 6 grams per day is beneficial. The burping WILL stop if you take them consistantly. Takes about a week for the burps to stop.

    Keep in mind that omega-3s will be preferentially oxidized (burned for fuel), so a lot of what you supplement on a low carb diet will be burned as energy before it can be stored in fat cells where it does its magic. Whenever possible, take your fish oils after a meal or after carbs. The carb load to the liver will decrease the oxidation of the fatty acids and allow more to pass through into the blood for storage. This is good when it comes to omega-3s and CLA.


    CLA can't exactly "replace" EPA as far as nutritional needs go. But it does do the same job on fat cells (through PPARs)

    It's going to take about 6-10 grams per day of CLA to notice any effect. If you use CLA while bulking it may help nutrient partitioning. CLA and Omega-3s should be taken "all" the time. They aren't supplements that you take every now and then. It has to be constant so that they can have time to change the environment within the body. This only happens as CLA are incorporated into fat cells. Unfortunately, the CLA is preferentially oxidized as it enters the liver, so you have to take enough to not only let the liver burn some, but also have enough to get into circulation and be deposited into fat cells.

    As with EFAs I suggest you take CLA with carbs (or after a meal). The rise in insulin may prevent the immediate oxidation of the CLA, and enhance the delivery of it to subcutaneous fat cells.

    The delivery of "fat" to fat cells may not seem like a good idea at first, but CLA and Omega-3s activate PPARs once in fat cells. This is good, and is what leads to the change in body composition over time.

    Regular use of CLA will change your "tendency" to gain and lose fat. It will basically make your fat cells act as if you had a genetic predisposition to leanness. The mechanism is pretty interesting.

    Here is a bit of info on CLA.

    CLA is a naturally occurring fatty acid found primarily in beef and dairy fats. The reason that it is found primarily in beef and dairy products is because CLA is formed from linoleic acid by bacteria in the gut of cows (or herbavors). The cows then absorb the CLA and it becomes incorporated into lipids in the cows, including milk lipids.


    How does it work?

    CLA increases fat oxidation.
    (West, D. B., J. P. DeLany, P. M. Camet, F. Blohm, A. A. Truett, and J. A. Scimeca. Effects of conjugated linoleic acid on body fat and energy metabolism in the mouse. Am. J. Physiol. 275 (Regulatory Integrative Comp. Physiol. 44): R667-R672, 1998)

    CLA has been shown to increase certain enzymes responsible for fatty acid beta-oxidation. This means that the body?s ability to burn fat goes up significantly with CLA supplementation.

    Inhibition of triglyceride uptake into fat cells.
    (Park, Y., K. J. Albright, W. Liu, J. M. Storkson, M. E. Cook, and M. W. Pariza. Effect of conjugated linoleic acid on body composition in mice. Lipids 32: 853-858, 1997)

    The best way to get fat is to send the fat you eat straight to the fat cell to be stored. This is generally what happens when we eat fat, however CLA supplementation has been shown to decrease the enzyme necessary for fat cells to take up fat and triglycerides from the blood. This fat is then more apt to be taken up by muscle tissue where it can be burned for fuel. In fact, CLA also increases the muscles ability to burn fat as fuel as mentioned previously.

    CLA increases insulin sensitivity
    (Houseknecht, K. L., J. P. Vanden Heuvel, S. Y. Moya-Camarena, C. P. Portocarrero, L. W. Peck, K. P. Nickel, and M. A. Belury. Dietary conjugated linoleic acid normalizes impaired glucose tolerance in the Zucker diabetic fatty fa/fa rat. Biochem. Biophys. Res. Commun. 244: 678-682, 1998)

    The reason CLA has been labeled a ?partitioning agent? is because of its ability to shift the flow of nutrients away from fat tissue and towards muscle tissue. So you are starving the fat and feeding your muscle, the end result being an increase or maintenance of muscle and a reduction in fat.

    CLA acts to reduce body fat stores by chronically increasing metabolic rate.
    (West DB, Blohm FY, Truett AA, DeLany JP. Conjugated linoleic acid persistently increases total energy expenditure in AKR/J mice without increasing uncoupling protein gene expression. J Nutr. 2000 Oct;130(10):2471-7.)

    Treatment with CLA chronically increases basal metabolic rate. Over time this elevation leads to significant reductions in fat mass. The exact mechanism by which CLA raises energy expenditure has yet to be elucidated but could act through PPARs.
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    Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
    Not really.... and check the referenes on the bottom before you call me a 'bro' again
    Firstly,nowhere in that article (It's not even a proper article,more like a forum post) does it say "Anything less than 2 does not affect body composition".Secondly,the EPA/DHA part is just the author's opinion & not based on studies (The footnote references are about CLA) & even if it is based on actual science it's just his interpretation & not the scientific community's.
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    Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
    Not really.... and check the referenes on the bottom before you call me a 'bro' again
    Reference from:
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.info...ST;f=13;t=4636
    Bryan Haycock, an expert on training and nutrition in the field of muscle hypertrophy
    Don't get me wrong. Each person may act as he wants regarding supplements, but in general bodybuilders tend to overdose vitamins, minerals and other products of overall health.

    In the early 1920s, competitive cyclists in the Tour De France smoked cigarettes during races because they thought that cigarettes were vasolidators and would relax lungs and allow more oxygen to be taken up by the lungs during exercise. The thought of smoking today would be crazy, because we know from science that smoking causes vasoconstriction of blood vessels to the lungs and cause just the opposite effect.

    Many bodybuilders use low-carb diets during the weeks preceding a competition and consume mostly healthy fats such as olive oil, fish oil and lean proteins such as fish, lean chicken and sirloin. What if just like cyclist in the '20s we thought a diet that was conductive to losing body fat was actually preventing muscle growth?

    Fish oils are potent anti-inflammatory agents that are great for reducing heart disease and other disorders of inflammation, but may no be best for maximal muscle growth.

    So the bottom line is do you want to be the biggest guy in the gym or the oldest and healthiest?
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    Originally Posted by msauka View Post

    So the bottom line is do you want to be the biggest guy in the gym or the oldest and healthiest?
    Biggest/strongest in the gym...I don't want to live till I turn green.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by __AM__ View Post
    Firstly,nowhere in that article (It's not even a proper article,more like a forum post) does it say "Anything less than 2 does not affect body composition".Secondly,the EPA/DHA part is just the author's opinion & not based on studies (The footnote references are about CLA) & even if it is based on actual science it's just his interpretation & not the scientific community's.
    CLA is a conjugated linoleic acid.
    Linoleic acid is an unsaturated omega-6 fatty acid.
    EPA and DHA belong to a family of omega-3 fatty acids.

    Both families have a similar effect on fat metabolism through PPAR's (see the previous response of mine). That's a fact.
    The author is basing his opinion on years of muscle hypertrophy research and nutrition that helps along the process citing numerous scientific studies. I did not quote them all.
    All the additional info can be found here:
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html
    The guy is genuine (all the info on the website is backed by scientific references and everything is free). I've been folowing his program for several years with excellent results.
    You're right. It is 'the author's opinion' but based on serious research and subsequent training of personal clients.
    Last edited by ilalin; 03-19-2009 at 01:34 PM.
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  19. #19
    Registered User ilalin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by msauka View Post
    Don't get me wrong. Each person may act as he wants regarding supplements, but in general bodybuilders tend to overdose vitamins, minerals and other products of overall health.

    In the early 1920s, competitive cyclists in the Tour De France smoked cigarettes during races because they thought that cigarettes were vasolidators and would relax lungs and allow more oxygen to be taken up by the lungs during exercise. The thought of smoking today would be crazy, because we know from science that smoking causes vasoconstriction of blood vessels to the lungs and cause just the opposite effect.

    Many bodybuilders use low-carb diets during the weeks preceding a competition and consume mostly healthy fats such as olive oil, fish oil and lean proteins such as fish, lean chicken and sirloin. What if just like cyclist in the '20s we thought a diet that was conductive to losing body fat was actually preventing muscle growth?

    Fish oils are potent anti-inflammatory agents that are great for reducing heart disease and other disorders of inflammation, but may no be best for maximal muscle growth.

    So the bottom line is do you want to be the biggest guy in the gym or the oldest and healthiest?
    We definitely don't have all the answers and we'll probably never have them. My responses are usually based on personal experiences backed by current research claims. Am I right about everything?
    I'm sure not, but to some degree the practices I stated worked for me without adverse health effects so far (based on blood and medical doctor examination values).
    Cheers
    Last edited by ilalin; 03-19-2009 at 01:31 PM.
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  20. #20
    hustlehands Hansolo261's Avatar
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    im going to be honest with you guys I was on some methyl vol( sd clone) about a year ago and I took 6 to 8 grams of fish oil per day. I seriously believe that actually hindered my gains. So now I just do a teaspoon of flax in the morning and one thousand mg of fish oil per day.
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    Critical Thinker __AM__'s Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by ilalin View Post
    CLA is a conjugated linoleic acid.
    Linoleic acid is an unsaturated omega-6 fatty acid.
    EPA and DHA belong to a family of omega-3 fatty acids.

    Both families have a similar effect on fat metabolism through PPAR's (see the previous response of mine). That's a fact.
    The author is basing his opinion on years of muscle hypertrophy research and nutrition that helps along the process citing numerous scientific studies. I did not quote them all.
    All the additional info can be found here:
    http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html
    The guy is genuine (all the info on the website is backed by scientific references and everything is free). I've been folowing his program for several years with excellent results.
    You're right. It is 'the author's opinion' but based on serious research and subsequent training of personal clients.
    Please stop educating me.I know what CLA,EPA/DHA & EFA's are.Although similar you cannot claim that CLA & EPA/DHA have the same effects on the body.
    Again,1.your claim is not even the author's opinion,it's yours & 2.The author hasn't provided references to any study on EPA/DHA in support of his suggested dosage.The result is broscience on the foundation of apparent broscience.
    __AM__ Becomes A SLEEPING-GIANT (Finished) : http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=115244671
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  22. #22
    Registered User ilalin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by __AM__ View Post
    Please stop educating me.I know what CLA,EPA/DHA & EFA's are.Although similar you cannot claim that CLA & EPA/DHA have the same effects on the body.
    Again,1.your claim is not even the author's opinion,it's yours & 2.The author hasn't provided references to any study on EPA/DHA in support of his suggested dosage.The result is broscience on the foundation of apparent broscience.
    Oh, you're one of those ones.
    All right, I won't lecture you.
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    Registered User kpfury's Avatar
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    I bought this:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/fishoil.html

    It says I should take 1 pill (.3g of EPA/DHA) 3x a day, which is less than 1g. You guys are saying I should take at least 3 pills 3x a day?
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  24. #24
    Registered User GodsHonestTruth's Avatar
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    I take a tablespoon of this with every meal:



    I love it.
    Co FoUnDeR oF Da GriLLeD OuT GanGstaZ
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    Registered User jphansen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GodsHonestTruth View Post
    I take a tablespoon of this with every meal:



    I love it.
    heh good point, I mean it IS fat, so it can potentially taste kinda good with food. Doesn't hurt to enjoy it versus taking a pill.
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    Forever cutting msauka's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kpfury View Post
    I bought this:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/fishoil.html

    It says I should take 1 pill (.3g of EPA/DHA) 3x a day, which is less than 1g. You guys are saying I should take at least 3 pills 3x a day?
    Be carefull, because very often D and other vitamins are added to fish oil. Those are the vitamins, that are not good to overdose. Your liver may suffer, especially if you are already taking multivitamins each morning.
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    Registered User |}373r/\/\1n3|)'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kpfury View Post
    I bought this:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/hp/fishoil.html

    It says I should take 1 pill (.3g of EPA/DHA) 3x a day, which is less than 1g. You guys are saying I should take at least 3 pills 3x a day?
    I noticed that the pills in that link weren't labeled as being "moleculary distilled." I found the following brand and they seem like a pretty good buy.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/om.html
    "Watch your thoughts, for they become your words. Choose your words, for they become actions. Understand your actions, for they become habits. Study your habits, for they will become your character. Develop your character, for it becomes your destiny."
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    Forever cutting msauka's Avatar
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    Those are good, take 2 caps 3 times a day to get 2g of omega-3.
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  29. #29
    Stylin' on you niktak11's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by msauka View Post
    Be carefull, because very often D and other vitamins are added to fish oil. Those are the vitamins, that are not good to overdose. Your liver may suffer, especially if you are already taking multivitamins each morning.
    You won't be having any problems with Vitamin D being added. (unless it's a crazy dose) Maybe you're thinking of Vitamin A from Cod Liver Oil...
    Last edited by niktak11; 03-24-2009 at 03:30 PM.
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    Boredom-Bulking warrior504th's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jphansen View Post
    I just talked to a nutritionist about this. This may help:

    "It seems like the amount that is beneficial depends on the study and the disease you are trying to prevent. It can be as low as 180 mg. for dementia prevention up to 1000 mg for decreasing mental illness. For heart disease 500-800 mg may be enough but some studies have gone up to 2 grams per day. I think as long as the amount does not cause gastro-intestinal effects in you, the larger amount is OK. Again realize that there is no control over how much really is in these supplements. A few brands have not had the potency that was listed on the label. I have seen one article that said taking smaller amounts throughout the day may help control burping or heartburn."
    "depends how insane you want to end up."
    Note: I am fully aware that my supplementation does little: Gives me the slightest edge in a lifestyle where I exert every last ounce of energy and effort at the highest level of intensity for the smallest fraction of gain.

    reps for life:
    Fenguin
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