Average Monthly Muscle Gain

[OnkarUK]

What are you taking?
tren ace + test E + slin

LOLOLOL

Guys the one remaining question I do have is.. are the above estimates based on natural bodybuilding (my only option) or via taking the riods as gjohnson is suggesting?

[crupiea]

This is an interesting read.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._about_bulking

[SP1966]

Thanks Tim, Im actually a fat boy and I was trying to get an idea of how long building muscle will take if I decide to focus on pure fat loss for a while.

Have been working on 3 day weights, 3 days aerobics, but considering hitting the fat loss hard for a while.

Just because you choose to focus on the fat loss does not mean you should stop lifting! Alwyn Cosgrove who I am a big fan of believes that the order of focus for weight loss is 1. diet, 2. diet, 3. weight lifting 4. cardio

Read the following article if you want: http://www.alwyncosgrove.com/hierarchy-of-fat-loss.html

Good luck!

[BuckSpin]

OP:

If your question could be answered that person would be a very wealthy person in that they had "the silver bullet". There are SO MANY variables that would determine any gains or lack thereof its just not possible to place a WAG on what the "average" or "maximum" gains could be.

[Bando]

this is my chiro

If this guy told me something about BB'ing I would listen, he seems to have his sh!t pretty well together.

That said, I think it's different for everyone, but I know my first year I could put on muscle like putting on an old sweatshirt, year 2 & 3? Not so much

[OnkarUK]

Just because you choose to focus on the fat loss does not mean you should stop lifting! Alwyn Cosgrove who I am a big fan of believes that the order of focus for weight loss is 1. diet, 2. diet, 3. weight lifting 4. cardio

Read the following article if you want: http://www.alwyncosgrove.com/hierarchy-of-fat-loss.html

Good luck!

SP, the issue Ive had is that the scales havent moved for quite sometime and while i appreciate Im changing my body composition to muscle rather than fat i dont see the results. i guess regular caliper testing will keep me motivated but at present i dont know anyone who can do it for me and I've been told body fat scales are very unreliable. appart from that Im down to looking at pictures. Any advise on the motivational side?

[chodan9]

Is it lyingSac with 2.3 lbs a month or NamTag with 5lbs a year?

heh heh
you going to belive a guy named "lyingsac"
or a guy named namtrag?

[OnkarUK]

OP:

If your question could be answered that person would be a very wealthy person in that they had "the silver bullet". There are SO MANY variables that would determine any gains or lack thereof its just not possible to place a WAG on what the "average" or "maximum" gains could be.

Buckpin; appreciate the response here but as a newbe really was looking for that estimated range. I think we all appreciate what your saying in terms of body type / genetics.

[OnkarUK]

heh heh
you going to belive a guy named "lyingsac"
or a guy named namtrag?

To start with i was thinking the same but the logic seems pretty good!

[SP1966]

SP, the issue Ive had is that the scales havent moved for quite sometime and while i appreciate Im changing my body composition to muscle rather than fat i dont see the results. i guess regular caliper testing will keep me motivated but at present i dont know anyone who can do it for me and I've been told body fat scales are very unreliable. appart from that Im down to looking at pictures. Any advise on the motivational side?

It has been said here time and again, the scales, body fat scales in particular are evil! To track your progress do the following.

1. Document your workouts
2. Take measurements every 3-4 weeks
3. Take pics at the same time you do your measurements

Those three along with the mirror are what you want to use, NEVER a scale!!

You have stated your goal is to lose fat so if you are getting stronger while your measurements decrease but the scale remains unchanged that would be pretty awesome progress. To replace fat with lean mass at even close to even rate is not something you should count on long term though!!

[Reality_Check]

Found this article

Based on the research I've looked at, as well as my own personal experience, I'd estimate that the "average" person (if there is such a thing) can expect to gain roughly 2-4% of their initial weight in the form of muscle after six weeks of regular resistance exercise [3, 4, 8].

For example, someone who weighs 180 pounds can expect to gain anywhere from 3-7 pounds of lean mass over a 6-week period. For every pound of muscle you gain, expect to add anywhere from 0.5 to 1 pound of fat. So, if you want to add 10 pounds of lean muscle, expect to gain roughly 15-20 pounds in weight.

Remember that muscle growth is not a linear process, and you won't keep growing at the same rate forever. Over the course of a year, it's rare for most people to add more than 25 pounds of muscle, although it's certainly not unrealistic to gain more than 25 pounds in weight.

So, if you're a beginner on a decent training and nutrition program, you might be able to gain 25 pounds of muscle in your first year of training. In year two, we can cut that number in half, giving you a gain of 10-12 pounds. In year three, the gains will be halved again, giving you 5-6 pounds of new muscle.

Unless you're a teenager with lots of natural anabolic hormones flooding your system, someone with a genetic predisposition towards rapid muscle growth, or you're using anabolic drugs, gaining more than 25 pounds of lean muscle in one year or less is very hard to do.


Looks like 5 lbs is good answer for an advanced lifter, but a noobie can gain pretty good!

I like this answer because it acknowledges that gains aren't going to be linear, but are going to be greatest early on and then tail off as you approach your genetic limit (genetic limit just refers to the fact that no one grows to be 20ft tall or weigh 2 tons of solid muscle or can bench 10 tons - no matter what training or diet routine they follow, there's a limit there somewhere - if you're 18 you don't gain 25 lb of muscle every year for the next 30 years so that by the time you're 48 you have 30x25lb= 750lb of extra muscle).

The amount of muscle you can gain in a year will vary greatly between individuals, are you male or female, are you 18 with raging hormones or 70, are you a desk jockey who's never done much physical exercise or are you a hard core trainer in your 20th year of training, will all vary the answer to how much you can gain in a year.

I myself would guesstimate (I can't say I've ever measured body fat accurately) that I've never gained more than 5 lb of muscle a year (though I have certainly gained 25 lb of body weight before) - but again that is just my particular body.

[OnkarUK]

It has been said here time and again, the scales, body fat scales in particular are evil! To track your progress do the following.

1. Document your workouts
2. Take measurements every 3-4 weeks
3. Take pics at the same time you do your measurements

Those three along with the mirror are what you want to use, NEVER a scale!!

You have stated your goal is to lose fat so if you are getting stronger while your measurements decrease but the scale remains unchanged that would be pretty awesome progress. To replace fat with lean mass at even close to even rate is not something you should count on long term though!!

Your last paragrapgh is the reassurance I guess i needed. Wasnt aware my progress was going so well. Cheers for highlighting the three points above, I'll focus on them going forward.

[LyingSac]

To start with i was thinking the same but the logic seems pretty good!

THAT'S WHY I'M LYINGSAC .....IT FORCES ME TO PROVE MYSELF

[Reality_Check]

Is it lyingSac with 2.3 lbs a month or NamTag with 5lbs a year?

I think you'll find the poster who wrote 2.3lb is joking (the 0.3 gives it away. If he'd just written 2lb then he might be serious. If he wrote 2.3244964 lb then you'd know for sure he is joking). But yeah I think you'll find he's using the old "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer" principle.

(Not saying your question is stupid for a newbie - but the more experienced trainers will see that things aren't that straight forward).

[chodan9]

I saw a post the other day where the OP claimed to have gained 50 pounds of lean muscle in a year. That seems far fetched to me, I train very hard, and I eat a lot of food, and I have put on an estimated 20 pounds of muscle in 3 years while dropping my weight by 50 pounds. I am very pleased with that progress. I am not obsessed with time anymore (although I was early on), I am enjoying the process, and I have a better perspective now, I know I can do it. If I continue my progress at the pace I am going I should be a pretty good sized guy in another 3 years.
3 years sounded like a long time when I was just starting, but now know I am committed to a healthy lifestyle, I am enjoying what I am doing also, So I don't see me stopping this. Now I don't really have to think about it, just do what I know to do, tweak it when I learn something better.

[OnkarUK]

I saw a post the other day where the OP claimed to have gained 50 pounds of lean muscle in a year. That seems far fetched to me, I train very hard, and I eat a lot of food, and I have put on an estimated 20 pounds of muscle in 3 years while dropping my weight by 50 pounds. I am very pleased with that progress. I am not obsessed with time anymore (although I was early on), I am enjoying the process, and I have a better perspective now, I know I can do it. If I continue my progress at the pace I am going I should be a pretty good sized guy in another 3 years.
3 years sounded like a long time when I was just starting, but now know I am committed to a healthy lifestyle, I am enjoying what I am doing also, So I don't see me stopping this. Now I don't really have to think about it, just do what I know to do, tweak it when I learn something better.

Nice approach to training/life. Reason for my initial question is that when i see posts like:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/timothyf.htm

within this site, it confuses the ***k out of me as a newbie. Any views?

[Reality_Check]

I have put on an estimated 20 pounds of muscle in 3 years while dropping my weight by 50 pounds. I am very pleased with that progress.

So you should be, that is excellent progress.

[Bando]

I have put on an estimated 20 pounds of muscle in 3 years while dropping my weight by 50 pounds. I am very pleased with that progress. I am not obsessed with time anymore (although I was early on), I am enjoying the process, and I have a better perspective now, I know I can do it. If I continue my progress at the pace I am going I should be a pretty good sized guy in another 3 years.
3 years sounded like a long time when I was just starting, but now know I am committed to a healthy lifestyle, I am enjoying what I am doing also, So I don't see me stopping this. Now I don't really have to think about it, just do what I know to do, tweak it when I learn something better.

This is why I always stop and read every word Chodan writes, always positive, never cynical of others and every post is an asset to the forum.

Well done, yet again.

[namtrag]

Chodan is a quiet and steady influence on this forum.

[LyingSac]

Chodan is a quiet and steady influence on this forum.

and he pretty much always backs up what he say with a link........ya know what......reps for being so darn wonderful........dang it say "i must spread some around".....

[OnkarUK]

This is an interesting read.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._about_bulking

Nice background document Crupiea.

I think you've all convinced me to continue the weights/aerobics split.

[gjohnson5]

that's what I do man. That's the point the chiro was making, just get lean, let the muscle take care of itself

He knows a hell of a lot more than most people on this board, he has been through it, plus chiro school is pretty friggin hard and they study anatomy.

this is my chiro

Not to sound like a hater but:
1. It is harder to build muscle in this condition. In order to maintain that condition takes some fairly extreme dieting. I wouldn't recommend staying in that shape indefinitely
2. He looks like he weighs 160-180... Not much size. Vascular and cut. Some chest and shoulder striations. However in order to build muscle I believe you need relax your diet.. Add carbs add calories and work hard. That physique is for walking around the beach, pussy prowling etc
3. I would bet $$$ he doesn't squat or dead lift much

[chodan9]

Nice approach to training/life. Reason for my initial question is that when i see posts like:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/timothyf.htm

within this site, it confuses the ***k out of me as a newbie. Any views?

I know what your talking about, and when I was just starting I didn't know whether to be motivated or discouraged by stats like those claimed in that link.
Eventually it came down to realistic progress, I can't call those guys out for wild claims, but I do take em with a grain of salt. Are they possible? maybe, do they apply to me? nope.

[chodan9]

This is why I always stop and read every word Chodan writes, always positive, never cynical of others and every post is an asset to the forum.

Well done, yet again.

Chodan is a quiet and steady influence on this forum.

and he pretty much always backs up what he say with a link........ya know what......reps for being so darn wonderful........dang it say "i must spread some around".....

awww shucks!
I'm all blushing and everything now!

[Reality_Check]

Nice approach to training/life. Reason for my initial question is that when i see posts like:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/timothyf.htm

within this site, it confuses the ***k out of me as a newbie. Any views?

I am sceptical that anyone can gain 1lb of new muscle tissue in a day. He no doubt made the weight gain claimed but I suspect he may be exaggerating the time scale. I note though that he had trained before and so he had more muscle before. Certainly those with previous muscle development will grow it back far quicker due to muscle memory than even the most gifted newbie trainer (Muscle memory is not an actual thought process of course but structural changes that remain in a deflated muscle - nick named muscle memory). Usually in these cases of gained 30 lb or whatever of muscle in a month that is what is going on. I read about something similar Arthur Jones (I think) did with some guy who deliberately lost a ton of weight in order to grow it back and break the record for most muscle gained in the shortest time (a lot of weight gained is also just replenishing glycogen stores, water etc, i.e. filling up pre-existing infrastructure).

Also note that the guy is starting from a very low base (arms going from 12" to 14.6"). And 29 is still quite young (I was at my strongest at 29 myself). If anyone can pack on a lot of muscle very quickly it will be a guy who has previously trained before but has stopped, who is in his 20s, and who is very far from his genetic limit and preferably well below even an average base strength/size level.

I'll also guarantee the guy did not continue his progress and gain 30 lb the next month and then 30 pound the next and so on until 10 months latter he had an extra 300lb of muscle on him.

In fact I'll bet he is still 177 lb or close to it. Let's see he claims that he started at 146 lb and then gained 34 lb in 28 days (9/21-10/23), that would put him at 180 lb, but in another spot he claims to be 177lb after 183 days after last official weighing (presumably 183 days since 10/23?). Meaning that in the following 183 days since his 34 lb weight gain he actually lost 3lb. At any rate he didn't stack on another 30 lb (and I'm sure we'd see a pick of that too if he did).

The point is that whether or not it was 28 days the guy made the 34 lb weight gain in (whatever the time frame he made great progress), even for him the rapid muscle growth was a one off, not typical of the gain he will experience month after month, year after year.

[Bando]

Not to sound like a hater but:
1. It is harder to build muscle in this condition. In order to maintain that condition takes some fairly extreme dieting. I wouldn't recommend staying in that shape indefinitely
2. He looks like he weighs 160-180... Not much size. Vascular and cut. Some chest and shoulder striations. However in order to build muscle I believe you need relax your diet.. Add carbs add calories and work hard. That physique is for walking around the beach, pussy prowling etc
3. I would bet $$$ he doesn't squat or dead lift much

2. If you don't have any pics to share, you shouldn't comment on this mans build. I think the fact this guy can keep that much muscle while being so lean is a testament to the monster he would be if he covered it in fat like you recommend.

3. so. f'ing. what. Is this squatter.com? Deadlifter.com? no its bodybuilding.com and that dude, whatever he's doing, is working. post up some pics or keep your asinine opinions to yourself.

[ragehammer]

At 48, I can gain here and there, for motivation, I focus on
strength gains, which come a little easier than mass gains.

[gjohnson5]

2. If you don't have any pics to share, you shouldn't comment on this mans build. I think the fact this guy can keep that much muscle while being so lean is a testament to the monster he would be if he covered it in fat like you recommend.

3. so. f'ing. what. Is this squatter.com? Deadlifter.com? no its bodybuilding.com and that dude, whatever he's doing, is working. post up some pics or keep your asinine opinions to yourself.

Relax
weight lifting is part of the game.
Some people goals are build and strength gain
Nothing asinine about that

[oldsuperman]

2. If you don't have any pics to share, you shouldn't comment on this mans build. I think the fact this guy can keep that much muscle while being so lean is a testament to the monster he would be if he covered it in fat like you recommend.

3. so. f'ing. what. Is this squatter.com? Deadlifter.com? no its bodybuilding.com and that dude, whatever he's doing, is working. post up some pics or keep your asinine opinions to yourself.

You know Bando... Sometimes I just don't get some peeps? The chiro guy looks freaking amazing and so lets start taring him down asap!! It never ceases to amaze me on the forum, those that seem to give out the most advice and go for the negative approach, are always missing the avatar with no pic's. Yet they post astronomical lifting stats like "400 lb squat", "500 lb bench"!

Anyway, for what it's worth, a conditioned man who works his freakin A$$ OFF and keeps his diet clean, with amazing genetics MAY put on 10 lbs. My goal this year was to put on 5 lbs of mass. So far we are at 7 lbs. I may put on about 2 or 3 more lbs before I start to prep, at which I will painfully lose 2 to 5 lbs of the muscle mass by weigh ins. If I was in my early 40s, I may have done better. I do have great genetics, so I have been blessed more then the average guy.

[Bando]

You know Bando... Sometimes I just don't get some peeps? The chiro guy looks freaking amazing and so lets start taring him down asap!! It never ceases to amaze me on the forum, those that seem to give out the most advice and go for the negative approach, are always missing the avatar with not pic's. Yet they post astronomical lifting stats like "400 lb squat", "500 lb bench"!

Anyway, for what it's worth, a conditioned man who works his freakin A$$ OFF and keeps his diet clean, with amazing genetics MAY put on 10 lbs. My goal this year was to put on 5 lbs of mass. So far we are at 7 lbs. I may put on about 2 or 3 more lbs before I start to prep, at which I will painfully lose 2 to 5 lbs of the muscle mass by weigh ins. If I was in my early 40s, I may have done better. I do have great genetics, so I have been blessed more then the average guy.

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Oldsuperman again"

Oh well. They say the proof is is in the pics and I can see every dollar you've spent has been well invested.