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  1. #1
    On my way to fitandfree fatbutfree's Avatar
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    Hate speech.. Should it be regulated?

    The question is:

    Can one individuals words compel another individual to commit a crime?

    To be specific:

    Is there something an individual can say, which will force another individual to commit a crime?

    And a side question, do you feel you have a right to not be offended?

    Please provide arguments, the aim is a discussion.
    Last edited by fatbutfree; 03-06-2009 at 10:37 PM. Reason: strong punctuation, no question marks.
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    For almost all of my life, I said "no". Now, I say "yes".

    Free speech is overrated.
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  3. #3
    Aye LEMME CLUTCH DABIGNASTY86's Avatar
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    I Think It Should
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  4. #4
    Dirty Bulkin dabbmw2002's Avatar
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    I'm gonna have to go with the slippery slope arguement here. Even if speech could incite someone to violence( i don't think it can), I would rather take my chance with that than have laws banning speech.
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    For almost all of my life, I said "no". Now, I say "yes".

    Free speech is overrated.
    You didn't answer the questions in my post.
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    should not be regulated
    do i think someone can get angry at something someone says and feel the urge to commit a crime? Yes, but that does not justify the crime
    and anyone can get offended by anything so how can you determine what is hate speech? you cant
    Last edited by American_Maniac; 03-06-2009 at 10:40 PM.
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  7. #7
    On my way to fitandfree fatbutfree's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DABIGNASTY86 View Post
    I Think It Should
    You didn't answer the questions in my post.

    I've now edited in requiring people give an argument.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    I'm gonna have to go with the slippery slope arguement here. Even if speech could incite someone to violence( i don't think it can), I would rather take my chance with that than have laws banning speech.
    Well no, because if I said the word 'Hubba' and that forced whoever heard it to commit an act of violence, the word 'Hubba' itself could be considered an act of violence.

    It's like if I grab your hand and force you to stab someone, you're not the criminal, I am.
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  9. #9
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    Can one individuals words compel another individual to commit a crime?


    Is there something an individual can say, which will force another individual to commit a crime?
    Here's a question that I have, why is it that one has to jump to such an extreme in reaction to hate speech?

    I doubt the average person would do that. o_o; I don't understand why you would jump to such an extreme, that's all.


    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    And a side question, do you feel you have a right to not be offended?
    The truth is, people (and I mean everyone, hate groups included) have the right to say what they wish.

    As such, responsibilities come with those freedoms (including a person's reaction to something that you say).

    Asking someone NOT to get offended is a little unrealistic and hypocritical when you think about it.

    You're asking them to respect your freedom of speech rights, but you can't respect their right to what they have to say about your opinion?

    Doesn't sound right at all.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    Well no, because if I said the word 'Hubba' and that forced whoever heard it to commit an act of violence, the word 'Hubba' itself could be considered an act of violence.

    It's like if I grab your hand and force you to stab someone, you're not the criminal, I am.
    thats just ridiculous
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    You didn't answer the questions in my post.
    "now I say yes" to your question "should it be regulated".
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  12. #12
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    No, too much room for abuse
    The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community. - David D. Boaz
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by American_Maniac View Post
    thats just ridiculous
    You need to tell me why it's ridiculous because your post hasn't convinced me.
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    Originally Posted by shadowsfall19 View Post
    Here's a question that I have, why is it that one has to jump to such an extreme in reaction to hate speech?

    I doubt the average person would do that. o_o; I don't understand why you would jump to such an extreme, that's all.
    I'm sorry I don't understand what you're asking me here. I'd be happy to answer I just need you to maybe rephrase it, thanks.
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    What is "hate" speech? Perhaps the criticism is legitimate?
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    You need to tell me why it's ridiculous because your post hasn't convinced me.
    the reason is because a word or sentence cannot "FORCE" someone into committing a crime. We are rational beings (most of us) and if you commit a crime it is your choice. We react to things people say all the time but you must take full responsibly for your actions because its your decision and nobody elses.
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    Speech should only be regulated if its sole intent is to lead a mass of people to the physical danger/violence of the antagonist(s) of said speech.


    As you noticed I said physical. Saying something that hurts someones feelings and getting prosecuted is how Europe got into the mess it is in right now.
    keep rep trading out of your sig
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    I'm sorry I don't understand what you're asking me here. I'd be happy to answer I just need you to maybe rephrase it, thanks.
    What I'm saying is, I doubt your average person would jump to wanting to committing a crime (for example, assault) someone for something that is said (perhaps it depends on the situation, religious extremists for example >_>; ).

    If anything, your average person might voice their displeasure with something that is said...but that's about it. If someone assaults or, God forbid, murders someone over something that is said...that's an extreme situation and, as such, isn't a common occurrence.

    What you said in the opening post confused me because I couldn't understand why you would jump such an extreme so quickly when on average, people wouldn't typically do such a thing.
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    Originally Posted by Skettch View Post
    What is "hate" speech? Perhaps the criticism is legitimate?
    I guess I could have said speech in general but I wanted to be specific.

    Speech promoting hate.
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    Originally Posted by shadowsfall19 View Post
    What I'm saying is, I doubt your average person would jump to wanting to committing a crime (for example, assault) someone for something that is said (perhaps it depends on the situation, religious extremists for example >_>; ).

    If anything, your average person might voice their displeasure with something that is said...but that's about it. If someone assaults or, God forbid, murders someone over something that is said...that's an extreme situation.

    What you said in the opening post confused me because I couldn't understand why you would jump such an extreme so quickly when on average, people wouldn't typically do such a thing.
    I was in another thread talking about the way Muslims reacted to the Mohammad cartoons. That's what made me ask about it.
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    Well no, because if I said the word 'Hubba' and that forced whoever heard it to commit an act of violence, the word 'Hubba' itself could be considered an act of violence.

    It's like if I grab your hand and force you to stab someone, you're not the criminal, I am.
    I think you misunderstood me, I am against hate speech laws.
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    I guess I could have said speech in general but I wanted to be specific.

    Speech promoting hate.
    isnt that subjective?
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    Originally Posted by Skettch View Post
    What is "hate" speech? Perhaps the criticism is legitimate?
    Being pro-white, in America, is hate.

    I do not agree with that.

    I am against anti- x, y, or z speech...be it race, religion, or anything.

    This is where the right-wingers blunder, when they criticize islam, they feed the media, which wants to see "Christians" and secularists fight muslims.

    I also thought the Holocaust denial laws were bad (Europe) but then I read up on genocides, and how cruxial denial is to demonize the victims and figured it might as well be a law, to establish truth. Truth is relative to the victors of wars and writers of history anyways, so might as well avoid beating a dead horse.
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    Originally Posted by American_Maniac View Post
    the reason is because a word or sentence cannot "FORCE" someone into committing a crime. We are rational beings (most of us) and if you commit a crime it is your choice. We react to things people say all the time but you must take full responsibly for your actions because its your decision and nobody elses.
    You didn't get my point then.

    The guy I replied to said that even if words could FORCE someone to commit a crime, he wouldn't oppose regulation of speech.

    I agree, we chose to commit crime, that's why we're held accountable for it.
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    I guess I could have said speech in general but I wanted to be specific.
    Too broad a question.

    Speech promoting hate.
    Which is? Any type of criticism could be defined as such.

    Anyway in response to the original post: No,
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    Originally Posted by American_Maniac View Post
    isnt that subjective?
    Yea but what's the issue?
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    Originally Posted by Skettch View Post
    Too broad a question.



    Which is? Any type of criticism could be defined as such.

    Anyway in response to the original post: No,
    Any speech which you personally find offensive or hate filled.
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    I was in another thread talking about the way Muslims reacted to the Mohammad cartoons. That's what made me ask about it.
    Ahh...truth be told, I don't know much about the situation, but I can safely say this:

    If they're going to voice displeasure, it's probably in their best interest to do so without any laws being broken.
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    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    Being pro-white, in America, is hate.

    I do not agree with that.

    I am against anti- x, y, or z speech...be it race, religion, or anything.

    This is where the right-wingers blunder, when they criticize islam, they feed the media, which wants to see "Christians" and secularists fight muslims.

    I also thought the Holocaust denial laws were bad (Europe) but then I read up on genocides, and how cruxial denial is to demonize the victims and figured it might as well be a law, to establish truth. Truth is relative to the victors of wars and writers of history anyways, so might as well avoid beating a dead horse.
    There are laws against denying the Holocaust? And you agree with them?
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    Originally Posted by fatbutfree View Post
    Yea but what's the issue?
    its an issue because I could claim that anything is hate speech. I could get offended by anything.
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