The Cover Model Quest!

**poetical_ninja** · 02-20-2009, 04:10 PM

So, I thought I would start a log as well as commenting in the main threads. I am doing my first keto diet after being advised of its benefits by others.
I broke both wrists simultaneously in December 2007, and lost all lean muscle during my recovery. After getting back some general conditioning and a decent amount of time back in the gym, I decided to set myself the goal of winning the Men's Health Cover Model competition here in the UK. The competition applications and photos need to be in roughly May, so from September until now I have been bulking. A friend of mine won the competition and has been a great help, but there is no substitute for hard work and dedication which has given me great bulking results, but I'm aware the hard part will now be leaning down.

I started my keto diet on Feb 16th, so I am currently approaching the end of my first week. Taken one day before my start, here is my condition immediately before starting keto.

BEFORE KETO- Feb 15th 2009:

6'0
185 lbs
BF%- ? unsure.

I will post progress pics every 2 weeks.
My diet has macros 62/33/5, including eggs, macadamia and DR peanuts, pepperoni, bacon, 0 carb hot dogs, cheese, chicken, brocolli, olive oil, double cream.
My supplements are whey protein, Tribulus, ZMA, Fish Oil, Maximuscle Thermobol. The Thermobol, ZMA and Tribulus will be cycled 2 weeks on 1 week off.

My workouts are Squats, Chest, Tris on Monday and Thursday
Deadlifts, Back, Bi's on Tuesday and Friday.
HIIT sprints before breakfast on Wednesday
HIIT skipping before breakfast on Monday and Thursday
Incline walking PWO on Tuesdays and Thursdays

WEEK ONE RECAP
So, during the first week, I have adjusted well to the diet, and although I do get mild cravings for carbs, I refuse to falter and will only treat on carb ups.
My symptoms this week have been 0 energy and struggling to get out of bed on Day 3 and Day 5. Very mild headache late night on Day 3. Very slight metallic taste late evening Day 3 and Day 5.
Ketostix taken on Day 4 show as medium/dark pink and well into spectrum.
Ketostix taken on Day 5 show light/medium pink, about 1/2 into spectrum.
I will take one ketostix everyday, just before lunch.

So the good news is that I am in ketosis! This week I have just been doing full body workouts, Mon Wed and Fri, with pre breakfast walking on Day 2 and Day 4 just to ease myself into the routine.
Now I know I'm in keto, I will follow the above weekly program to torch some fat!

Any comments etc more than welcome!

**pmitchw** · 02-20-2009, 07:19 PM

good luck brother!

**poetical_ninja** · 02-22-2009, 09:12 AM

So it's Sunday, and the end of my first week.

I am finding I can stick to the diet no problem, my only issue at this stage is my own belief in the concept and potential of this diet.
Over the last few days, I have read an infinite amount of contradictory articles and forum posts about the effects of keto.
Some say they lose lots of fat and also even ADD a little muscle (Even if it only 1/2lbs).

Others say that keto will cause fat loss but inevitably result in muscle loss, as it is naturally a calorie deficit diet. Arguing that it is a muscle sparing diet only when aerobic work is performed, since the body apparently calls on glucose when anaerobic effort takes place....therefore weights sessions and any HIIT will ultimately result in muscle loss.

My maintenance calories are roughly 2800. I am currently on 2120 per day on keto. I'm wondering after reading certain articles that on my current deficit muscle loss may occur, and I can prevent that by moving to slightly higher daily calories?

I cannot describe how much this debate is getting to me!!! Although I would never cheat on the diet or step out of line, my motivation and belief in the diet is suffering...since I started it to lose fat and specifically preserve muscle. I cannot afford to lose any of the muscle I have strained to build over the last few months. As such, I'm a little bit down because I want to commit to this 100%- knowing that I can keep and maybe even add a little muscle, while burning fat.

So at this point in time, because of the contradictory opinions of people and articles, I feel in limbo about the whole situation which I don't like- because I haven't got time to waste right now. I need to determine what is going to burn fat and keep muscle. FOR SURE.

I will stick out the next week to finish the 2 week induction, byt which point I would expect to feel full of energy as my body becomes truly fat adapted. I will also be taking photos on the Monday following my carb up, to rate the first 2 weeks progress. If it seems like I'm losing muscle, then I'm tempted to switc up my diet to what worked for me in the past and was suggested by my friend who won the cover competition....
As in, slowly reducing the number of carbs, over the course of a week or 2, and upping the HIIT.

I would love people to give me their opinions on this, I don't want my enthusiasm for keto to fade, but at this point I must admit I'm more worried about losing muscle than I am excited about losing fat.

Thanks for your help

**triptizine** · 02-22-2009, 12:50 PM

Basic concept..

65% Fat
30% Pro
<5% Carb..

Dang I wished I was at your point.. maybe by xmas I will be..

I think you need to find a happy space, if you know your mait. is 2800 I would say 2300 not 2100.. you wouldnt want to lose too much.

**RubberGuard** · 02-23-2009, 01:19 PM

Good luck with the cut.

**poetical_ninja** · 02-23-2009, 02:03 PM

Thanks guys.

Just wondering, and this isn't a test lol, can anyone estimate my body fat using the photo? I don't have a means to test it myself really and thought the experienced users could hazard a ballpark guess.

Cheers!

**triptizine** · 02-23-2009, 03:01 PM

I would say >10% possible 8%.. but i am no expert

**RubberGuard** · 02-23-2009, 03:08 PM

Guestimates are rubbish.

Just to give an idea have a look here:- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...3548351&page=2

**poetical_ninja** · 02-24-2009, 05:21 AM

It's day 9, Tuesday of my second week. I have to say, I feel like I could roll over and die! My hands feel so heavy just typing. Hunger is huge, iv just had half a bag of macadamia nuts as standard for my second meal, and have 1.5 hours until lunch.

I was hoping my energy levels would have improved. I don't know how I'm supposed to keep intensity up in the gym with this sort of fatigue.

I suppose generally, I'm looking for some kind of light at the end of the tunnel...

Obviously my body still isn't used to using fat for energy, which makes me think where is this (extremely low amount) of energy coming from just to keep me awake. At the moment i'm just praying that I get this so called surge of energy once I've finished the first 2 weeks.

**Paintball26** · 02-24-2009, 08:59 AM

I would estimate 12-14%
It could be a little high though
Doesn't really matter as long as you're seeing results

The first weeks and part of the second is hell, so I would suggest maybe doing the E/C stack to get the extra energy and the fatburning would help seeing as you are pretty lean as it is

**poetical_ninja** · 02-25-2009, 06:13 AM

DAY 10

Good news, I feel much more energetic right off the bat today. had an early start for a lecture, and since then have had a football knock around with friends, just returned home. Plenty of energy...not through the roof just yet, but a welcome improvement. Haven't felt like I'm dragging my ass around for a couple days now.

DIET-
yesterday I did a revamp of my diet. I thought I should reanalyse my macros and intake of food. As a result, I found out that although my macros were good, (And ketostix also confirmed ketosis) I was eating waaay too little, around 1750 cals. Should explain some tiredness and strength issues.
So I have gone through everyting again, and my improved diet now has me closer to 2300 cals, with macros of 62/33/5.

Training day diet-

M1- Scrambled 4 large eggs, in butter. Pro shake. Fish oil, fiber supp.
M2- Macadamia nuts, 50g peanut butter. (Amazing

)
M3- 0 carb hot dog sausages, cheese. Pro shake. Fish oil, fiber supp.
M4- (PWO) Shake with 20g Dextrose.
M5- Chicken and brocolli, olive oil tbsp, Fish oil, fiber supp
M6- Shake with double cream, 1 salami stick.

2300 cals, 62/33/5

On non training days, cals go down to 2180, just remove the salami stick at end of day.

One thing to say is, I have decided not to take progress photos until after 4 weeks of the diet. I have lost some water, but there isn't really any fat loss to report yet. So I think a 4 week timeline will show better results than taking photos after 2 weeks.

TRAINING-
3 full body sessions per week just doesn't cut it for me, a lot of people recommended it for fat loss, but I just can't train hard enough that way. I've reverted (Since Monday to the following)-

Monday- Chest, triceps, front delts
Tuesday- Back, biceps, rear delts
Wednesday- Off. Occasionally a v low intensity football kick around.
Thursday- Chest, triceps, front delts
Friday- Back biceps, rear delts
Saturday- Legs, abs
Sunday- off.

After each gym session, I do 15-20 mins incline walking on treadmill.

QUESTIONS-

I'm unsure as to when and what the best cardio method is on keto. My gym is reserved for elite athletes only during early hours, so any fasted cardio would be outdoors. However, I've read a lot that even on keto, this isn't a good thing...

So, I'm lead to believe that PWO walking could be the answer, or something more intense, like low speed rowing?

**RubberGuard** · 02-25-2009, 09:55 AM

PWO walking is a good alternative to fasted morning cardio.

Elite athletes only during early hours?! WTF is that all about?!

**poetical_ninja** · 02-26-2009, 03:59 AM

My university is basically the best sporting university in Europe, when I played basketball I could take advantage of that but I stopped last year...now I can only go during 'normal' gym hours!

So anyway, I've decided to do 30mins of walking pre-breakfast, followed by PWO liss-

now, after a workout, is walking still the best option? Or can other things be introduced? Let's be hoenst, you don't get very tired, and to make myself think that it's torching fat is proving quite hard!

**RubberGuard** · 02-26-2009, 02:21 PM

See how the LISS goes first, give it a chance. If you're not seeing any results then introduce more intensity.

**poetical_ninja** · 02-26-2009, 02:44 PM

Noted, thanks Rubber.

So, approaching the end of week 2, that light at the end of the tunnel seems to be coming. Energy is much better, and feeling mroe positive.
My only thoughts are really to do with the Sunday carb up. I have a rough idea of what to eat, I'm going with porridge oats and honey, a slight cheatmeal of sausage and cheese wholemeal muffins, ice cream treat, lamb and veg lunch with a few potatoes, and something clean to finish up...maybe wholemeal bagels with ham. All of this will be done from 8am to 8pm Sunday.

Anyway, I feel a bit worried- I've just got over that horrible initial stage where you feel like sh!t, and now it's time for a carb up. I know that the carbs will go straight into the muscles etc, and that by doing it over 12 hours means I shouldn't accumulate any body fat.
But I don't know at what stage I will re-enter ketosis....if the carb up finishes 8pm Sunday, and then I'm back to normal Monday and working out etc, when will I again become depleted and in ketosis? I know it varies, but ballpark....

**RubberGuard** · 02-26-2009, 03:24 PM

I did a full on weekend (friday-sunday) nasty binge fest last week. Consumed an outragous amount of calories and it took me about 36 hours to be back in ketosis. Only gained 5lbs too, all of which was gone after 3 days.

**poetical_ninja** · 02-27-2009, 12:38 PM

DAY 12

Well, all i can say is, I feel great. I think things have finally clicked in my system, and I now have decent amounts of energy, and most importantly-

my gym strength has returned!
Today I did back and biceps, and was back to lifting what I was before keto. Last back session I was way down, but safe to say I am now back where I should be. Phew!!!!

I have actually noticed some results, and I was not expecting anything noticable until 4-6 weeks in.
My top 4 abs are now visible, looking toned. Hopefully by the end of the 6 weeks or so I will have them all out to play lol.
I'm glad I persisted and didn't give up during these first 2 weeks, I think I'm finally over that hill which is initially horrible.

I just don't want this progress to slow down as a result of my carb up this Sunday!!! I do feel I need one though.
There's a lot of debate about carb ups I noticed. Makes me wonder, there isn't a huge difference between the Palumbo diet and a CKD, so I'm tempted to believe that anything goes within your calorie maintenance.

**poetical_ninja** · 02-28-2009, 12:18 PM

DAY 13

So...because my mirror progress has become visual, I couldn't resist but to take a waist measurement.

At the time of my original photo at the top of this log, I had a waist (Belly button) pushing 34.5 inches.

My belly button waist is now down to 33 inches. 1.5 inches in 2 weeks. Wooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tomorrow is carb up day.

Breakfast- Porridge Oats with honey

Mid morning (Cheat meal)- Subway with sausage, cheese, egg, ketchup
Ice cream

Late Lunch- Lamb, veg

Evening- not sure yet. Something based around wholemeal bread.

**poetical_ninja** · 03-01-2009, 01:36 AM

DAY 14

The Carb up.

I've just had porridge and honey. I'm not gonna lie to you- it feels like f***ing Christmas Morning.

**triptizine** · 03-01-2009, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by poetical_ninja

DAY 14

The Carb up.

I've just had porridge and honey. I'm not gonna lie to you- it feels like f***ing Christmas Morning.

mwahaha.. I had my first piece of chocolate yesterday for a LONG time.. it was better then sex..

Enjoy Brah.

**poetical_ninja** · 03-02-2009, 07:49 AM

DAY 15

It is currently pre workout, just getting ready to hit the iron.
So it is the day after the carb up, and I really enjoyed the first re-feed!
Safe to say, that after treating myself and having carbs again, I have satisfied my cravings and feel as such like I can now effectively cut out any dirty foods on carb up days...I'd much prefer a nice bowl of honey porridge.

Anyway, the results of the carb up are that instantly I can see that the awesome definition I had has lessened, not completely. I assumed that is what would happen.

Now I'm wondering,

1) When will my body enter ketosis again? - ketostix today confirm 0 state of ketosis, negative.
2) Is the result of the carb up water retention again, or simply filling out?
3) Should I now think about slightly reducing cals by say 100 per day?

MAIN CONCERN-

3/4 days prior to the carb up, I went though a phase where my body had clearly adapted to keto and was showing amazing results. I loved this, to the extent where I thought I don't want to wreck this look by having a carb up!

My body fat % is appoaching single digits now...with the water depletion etc I was more toned than ive ever been. What happens if I get to this weekend and don't feel like I want to carb up? IS IT NECESSARY?

After the first carb up (2 weeks in) is it now custom to carb load every weekend? I don't want to spend the first days of the week getting back into ketosis, progressing for a couple days, then carb loading all over again. My energy wasnt suffering at all, because my body had just adapted to fat energy and I was fine.

For some reason, it feels like a week is too short to get back into ketosis, see more results, then carb load again.

OR- now that my body is adapted, does it eneter ketosis quicker and thus burn fat quicker?

**anniesbay** · 03-02-2009, 09:14 AM

you and i must be sharing a brain cuz i've wondered the same things. one thing i've noticed from others posts is that it seems the longer you do the diet, the quicker you can enter ketosis after a carb up. a few more down the road and you may not even kick yourself out during carb up. that's what i'm telling myself anyway

**poetical_ninja** · 03-03-2009, 02:42 PM

DAY 16

Well, things are certainly getting interesting. Today I did a personal best on the Lat pulldown. The machine in the gym only goes up in large increments...before the start of my whole cover model quest lol, I was struggling to pull 80kgs. After bulking, I was pulling 90kg for about 10 reps. A step up to 100ks would have been unthinkable...not for more than 5 reps anyway.
Today, I dominated 100kgs for 9 reps. Easily the heaviest I've gone. I love keto.

It's Tuesday, and I expect it'll be the end of tomorrow, or more likely Thursday, when the water will have completely gone again. Can't wait to see that ripped look again...

Speaking to some friends who are doing the Palumbo diet, they were saying that progress on keto is like a graph that gradually goes down (First 2 weeks), rises sharply a small bit (First carb up), gradually lowers again but dipping lower than before, rises sharply a small bit again a week later (2nd carb up) and carries on as such, each time dipping lower than the previous decline until it starts to level off (When gains slow down and calories need to be cut more etc).

Tomorrow is a day off, a bit of light football kick around in the morning.

**poetical_ninja** · 03-04-2009, 06:53 AM

DAY 17

Day off from the gym today, but did fasted LISS this morning. Just a short slow walk.

Sill not back in ketosis. This is confusing me. At this rate, I'm only going to do carb ups once every 2 weeks...taking this long to get back into keto isn't worth it if you only get about 3 days per week in ketosis.

It was around this time last week I started going to the toilet a lot, and noticed my abs and everywhere else getting seriously defined. So, I'd hope by tomorrow that similar things are happening.

**anniesbay** · 03-04-2009, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by poetical_ninja

It's Tuesday, and I expect it'll be the end of tomorrow, or more likely Thursday, when the water will have completely gone again. Can't wait to see that ripped look again...

Speaking to some friends who are doing the Palumbo diet, they were saying that progress on keto is like a graph that gradually goes down (First 2 weeks), rises sharply a small bit (First carb up), gradually lowers again but dipping lower than before, rises sharply a small bit again a week later (2nd carb up) and carries on as such, each time dipping lower than the previous decline until it starts to level off (When gains slow down and calories need to be cut more etc).

Thanks for posting this because, if you read my recent journal entry, i'm pretty ticked off. I look like I did when I stared keto, not that second week cut look I was loving. I needed the reassurance. Even though I've been in keto since Monday, my weight is up and i look puffy. i hope your friends are right and you and I are both feeling sexy in a couple days.

**Sideways17** · 03-05-2009, 04:44 AM

This is my 4th day on keto and I've wondered the exact same thing! How long of a carb up are you doing? And how many calories and grams of fat, protein and carbs are you taking in? I've read some people do 12 hr carb ups. Also a guy I pmd yesterday told me to limit fluid intake on carb days. What do you two think?

**poetical_ninja** · 03-05-2009, 06:09 AM

DAY 18

Grrrrr!!!! STILL not back in ketosis. This is such a roller coaster ride- one moment I'm thinking everything has finally started working, now I can't get back into ketosis.

I realised that it was Friday last week that I started noticing serious differences, and it was the Saturday that I was just amazed at what I was seeing. Today it is Thursday, and had hoped I would have been in ketosis for most of this week. I feel more disappointed than angry, and a bit unsure of what to expect here.

From my point of view, best or worst case scenario, after a carb up 90% of the week is spent getting back into ketosis (Thats if I get back there before the end of the week).

So even if by Saturday I have the really ripped look again, surely that has just made the whole week a water losing exercise, and not fat loss? I wasn't in ketosis, and so the body wasn't using fat for fuel, so any visual changes that occur are just water loss. If I were to do a carb up every weekend, then I'd just be doing a water loss, water regain, water loss, water regain as the weeks go by.

This leads me to think that if it takes this long just to get back into ketosis, I should do another week without a carb up otherwise I won't get any of the fat loss benefits of being in keto. At least then I'd hopefully be in keto for a week before a carb up again.

I cannot describe just how frustrating this is.
From the sounds of other people here, and what I thought would happen, it seemed this is what would happen:

2 week induction (Get into keto, lose water weight, body adapts)

1st carb up (Replenish glycogen stores, muscles fill out a bit)

Following week (Into keto again after 2/3 days, spend second half of week enjoying the fat burning)

2nd carb up (Same as first, possible more strict though, learn from 1st one)

Repeat

So going by this, I've fallen at the second hurdle. First 2 weeks induction was successful, great signs, knew I was ketosis after about 4 days.
Did the carb up, water weight came back a bit etc.
Started following week, which is now almost over, and not even back in ketosis. So the last 4 days have just been a complete waste of time. No fat burning, no nothing.

Begging for help. Advice. Anything. What is going on...

A despondant Ninja.

**Ekke** · 03-05-2009, 06:30 AM

Ketostix is just for pure frustration - honestly.

I don't test positive on those things 90% of the time due to a high fluid intake, i wouldn't count on them - if you stick to your carb limit your FINE.

As of the ripped look, did anything in your diet change this week? High sodium intake or something? drinking less water?

**poetical_ninja** · 03-05-2009, 06:43 AM

Hi Ekke,

Diet has been spot on this week. If anything, drinking slightly more water than the first 2 weeks.

Some may have noticed on Tuesday of the second week (Day 9) I reanalysed my diet and realised there were problems and macros were wrong etc. That diet is what I do everyday, and I know it is bang on the mark. So I know thats fine, and that my carb intake is regulated. On a workout day, I think I get about 27g net carbs. On a non workout day, I think it is 21g net carbs. The extra workout day carbs come from a pre workout supplement.

I'm wondering, as most people spend 1/2/3 days getting back into keto after a carb up, what becomes of those first few days? Is the body still in fat burning mode (using fat for all energy)...or are those first few days when the body is still brning off all the carbs from carb up?

A friend on Palumbo told me the carb up should only be one meal. Mine was 12 hours, based on other users experiences from here....

**jecristragedy** · 03-05-2009, 07:10 AM

12 hour carb ups have me back in ketosis halfway through the next day, after my workout. i dont test using ketostix, but i know. can smell dem ketones... eck.

as you get further along, youll get back in more quickly.

body will stay in fat burning mode with just a 12 hour carb up. and youre in a deficit, silly, youre still getting somewhere. take a breath, its gonna be ok

throw some HIIT in there after the lifting you do the day after your carb up. may help.

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