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  1. #1
    TG f*ckin Z Hostage's Avatar
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    Fact or Fiction: Building muscle with calorie deficit?

    I've heard so many things I don't know what to think anymore. It's driving me nuts.

    I'm told I need to eat eat EAT. Eat like there's no ****ing tomorrow. Then I'm told all those extra calories will just turn to fat...and that I can still build mucle even with a calorie deficit because your body will use stored fat as fuel.

    Anyone care to put an end to this??
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  2. #2
    Registered User gymcandykid's Avatar
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    As long as your eating and its working for you don't stop... why take the minimum amount of calories needed? It seems nearly impossible to track how many you burn in a day with various activities so theres no way you could find out how many you need to take to get that min. req.
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  3. #3
    TG f*ckin Z Hostage's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gymcandykid View Post
    why take the minimum amount of calories needed?
    Because I only have until August before I go to the Carribbean! I have time to bulk...but not to cut so I don't want to add on extra fat (or at least limit it as much as I can.)
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by Hostage View Post
    Because I only have until August before I go to the Carribbean! I have time to bulk...but not to cut so I don't want to add on extra fat (or at least limit it as much as I can.)

    Go here- http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm


    Find your daily calorie intake for maintenance, then add calories based on how much you want to build. If you want to add weight slowly(good option if you have until august) then only add a few hundred calories a day. If you're looking for bigger or faster weight gains, add more calories, but remember, some of those calories will go to fat. Play around with the amounts a little and find out what works for you.
    "Fatigue makes cowards of us all."
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  5. #5
    Mind over Muscle Leyton Stone_old's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hostage View Post
    I've heard so many things I don't know what to think anymore. It's driving me nuts.

    I'm told I need to eat eat EAT. Eat like there's no ****ing tomorrow. Then I'm told all those extra calories will just turn to fat...and that I can still build mucle even with a calorie deficit because your body will use stored fat as fuel.

    Anyone care to put an end to this??
    It is generally correct that you cannot build muscular size while eating less than your basal metabolic rate. You will gain some fat when gaining muscle. To minimise how much, eat cleanly, don't overeat* and make sure your workouts are geared for hypertrophy.

    *If you really want to minimise fat gain you might need to plan and track your meals the same way you do for your workouts, grams, calories etc. That way you know exactly how much more you need to be eating.
    "I not only don't use gloves, I file the skin off my palms before each workout. I also wrap double sided tape about the bar, sprinkle broken glass on it, dip it in acid, then wrap it in razor wire. I also plug the bar into an outlet, and stand in a bucket of water." - Defiant1
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  6. #6
    Registered User _XYDREX_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hostage View Post

    Fact or Fiction: Building muscle with calorie deficit?

    I've heard so many things I don't know what to think anymore. It's driving me nuts.

    I'm told I need to eat eat EAT. Eat like there's no ****ing tomorrow. Then I'm told all those extra calories will just turn to fat...and that I can still build mucle even with a calorie deficit because your body will use stored fat as fuel.

    Anyone care to put an end to this??
    It really depends on your current state.

    You need calories to firstly fuel & recover from your everyday activities, then secondly to maintain your current fat supplies which are an emergency store of fuel in case you start to starve. Maintaining excess fat is the grey area that confuses many people.

    If you have excess 'needless' fat, then you can gradually loose this as you build up. But of course you need to define what is needless & this does involve subjective opinion. Everyone is different with different metabolisms so will need different amounts of calories to maintain certain b.m.i figures.

    If you eat clean & sensible & maintain good exercise habits, then that particular b.f% I would consider as the baseline & any fat beyond this is 'needless' & can be lost in a reasonable period of time without much physical distress (effort). Of course clean, sensible & reasonable are all matters of opinion. If you adjust your caloric intake to cover your activities, workouts & provision for building muscle, then you will loose any 'excess' fat while building up muscle. However if you want to be very lean, leaner than you would usually be (i.e. requiring considerable effort) then naturally it will interfere with building new muscle.

    People in general like black & white answers, but this is rarely the case in everyday life. All truths are applicable within certain valid ranges, if you go outside those ranges the rules will stop being valid. If you tell someone you can gain muscle & loose fat, they think you are saying you can get huge & get shredded so you must be on heavy drugs.

    When you are at your base b.f% & you are building up new muscle, yes you can gain fat. Many people think this means your b.f% must increase. This does not have to be the case. If you are 200lbs @ 10% bodyfat, then you have 20lbs fat & 180lbs everything else (muscle, bone fluid etc). If you gain 10lbs lean 'mass' it does not mean 10lbs of pure muscle. It means you gain both muscle & fat in a ratio such that you maintain your current 10% b.f. So you gain 9lbs of muscle & 1lb of fat resulting in 210lbs of bodyweight comprising of 21lbs fat & 189lbs everything else.

    If you were to gain pure muscle with no gain in fat, then your bf% would drop. This should be readily achievable if you carry excess 'needless' fat.
    Last edited by manfred99; 02-27-2009 at 02:50 AM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User wheylover's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manfred99 View Post
    It really depends on your current state.

    You need calories to firstly fuel & recover from your everyday activities, then secondly to maintain your current fat supplies which are an emergency store of fuel in case you start to starve. Maintaining excess fat is the grey area that confuses many people.

    If you have excess 'needless' fat, then you can gradually loose this as you build up. But of course you need to define what is needless & this does involve subjective opinion. Everyone is different with different metabolisms so will need different amounts of calories to maintain certain b.m.i figures.

    If you eat clean & sensible & maintain good exercise habits, then that particular b.f% I would consider as the baseline & any fat beyond this is 'needless' & can be lost in a reasonable period of time without much physical distress (effort). Of course clean, sensible & reasonable are all matters of opinion. If you adjust your caloric intake to cover your activities, workouts & provision for building muscle, then you will loose any 'excess' fat while building up muscle. However if you want to be very lean, leaner than you would usually be (i.e. requiring considerable effort) then naturally it will interfere with building new muscle.

    People in general like black & white answers, but this is rarely the case in everyday life. All truths are applicable within certain valid ranges, if you go outside those ranges the rules will stop being valid. If you tell someone you can gain muscle & loose fat, they think you are saying you can get huge & get shredded so you must be on heavy drugs.

    When you are at your base b.f% & you are building up new muscle, yes you can gain fat. Many people think this means your b.f% must increase. This does not have to be the case. If you are 200lbs @ 10% bodyfat, then you have 20lbs fat & 180lbs everything else (muscle, bone fluid etc). If you gain 10lbs lean 'mass' it does not mean 10lbs of pure muscle. It means you gain both muscle & fat in a ratio such that you maintain your current 10% b.f. So you gain 9lbs of muscle & 1lb of fat resulting in 210lbs of bodyweight comprising of 21lbs fat & 189lbs everything else.

    If you were to gain pure muscle with no gain in fat, then your bf% would drop. This should be readily achievable if you carry excess 'needless' fat.
    good post!
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  8. #8
    TG f*ckin Z Hostage's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by manfred99 View Post
    It really depends on your current state.

    You need calories to firstly fuel & recover from your everyday activities, then secondly to maintain your current fat supplies which are an emergency store of fuel in case you start to starve. Maintaining excess fat is the grey area that confuses many people.

    If you have excess 'needless' fat, then you can gradually loose this as you build up. But of course you need to define what is needless & this does involve subjective opinion. Everyone is different with different metabolisms so will need different amounts of calories to maintain certain b.m.i figures.

    If you eat clean & sensible & maintain good exercise habits, then that particular b.f% I would consider as the baseline & any fat beyond this is 'needless' & can be lost in a reasonable period of time without much physical distress (effort). Of course clean, sensible & reasonable are all matters of opinion. If you adjust your caloric intake to cover your activities, workouts & provision for building muscle, then you will loose any 'excess' fat while building up muscle. However if you want to be very lean, leaner than you would usually be (i.e. requiring considerable effort) then naturally it will interfere with building new muscle.

    People in general like black & white answers, but this is rarely the case in everyday life. All truths are applicable within certain valid ranges, if you go outside those ranges the rules will stop being valid. If you tell someone you can gain muscle & loose fat, they think you are saying you can get huge & get shredded so you must be on heavy drugs.

    When you are at your base b.f% & you are building up new muscle, yes you can gain fat. Many people think this means your b.f% must increase. This does not have to be the case. If you are 200lbs @ 10% bodyfat, then you have 20lbs fat & 180lbs everything else (muscle, bone fluid etc). If you gain 10lbs lean 'mass' it does not mean 10lbs of pure muscle. It means you gain both muscle & fat in a ratio such that you maintain your current 10% b.f. So you gain 9lbs of muscle & 1lb of fat resulting in 210lbs of bodyweight comprising of 21lbs fat & 189lbs everything else.

    If you were to gain pure muscle with no gain in fat, then your bf% would drop. This should be readily achievable if you carry excess 'needless' fat.
    Thanks for the awesome post. Repped for that.

    You're right about people wanting black and white answers...but I understand there's more to it than that. Again, great post.
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  9. #9
    Highest Scum of the Board Findenn's Avatar
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    Im fairly sure that if you are in a negative balance state then you cant gain max muscle even if u have too much fat to begin with.
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  10. #10
    Registered User _XYDREX_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Findenn View Post
    Im fairly sure that if you are in a negative balance state then you cant gain max muscle even if u have too much fat to begin with.
    Thats not entirely true, thats why I mentioned to lose the excess fat gradually. The body can detect both the current state that its in (total level of fat) and rates of change.

    Say you are carrying 20lbs of excess needless fat (meaning above a level of fat that can be comfortably maintained long term while building new muscle). Your calorie intake would involve covering your everyday activities, provision for building new muscle & maintaining the excess 20lbs of needless fat. If you adjust your caloric intake suddenly so that you no longer are replenishing this extra 20lbs, then the change is too sudden. The body may think you are starting to starve & it will go into safety mode. In this state building new muscle is not a top prority so your efforts will be compromised. But if you adjust it gradually so you are losing this excess fat at say a pound per week it should be fine. Just make sure you dont drop below the bodyfat level that is required for long term mass gains (about 9-14% for most of the male population).
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