Carbs are not necessary...

[IrockZ]

so im pre-diabetic.? do explain.

[Jay Rawd]

so im pre-diabetic.? do explain.

People with lower insulin sensitivity or just all-out insulin resistance (pre-type 2 diabetes) perform better when carbs are reduced to little or none because their pancreas overproduces insulin which in turn causes reductions in glucose uptake by the muscles. When your muscle can't uptake glucose effectively, you don't get that "pump" and you are weak in the gym.

In contrast, people with insulin sensitivity (like me), produce small amounts of insulin in tiny spikes, and our muscles can uptake glucose very effectively, giving us the pump we need to drive workouts. But you take that way from us and performance suffers.

[Jay Rawd]

Further reading:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...-fat-loss.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...ts-part-4.html

[94Sip]

keto worked great but me, but once i leaned out, high carb worked out even better...

This is exactly what I did. I used to eat like crap but then I did CKD and I leaned out and got rid of a bunch of fat. Then I did high carb/low fat and really put on some size, while actually getting even leaner, and looked way better in the mirror on high carb. The key, I believe, is that the high carb really gets your thyroid working correctly (after keto) and all your muscles are full of glycogen and you can do some serious hypertrophy style training. Another factor is that the CKD will attenuate your insulin sensitivity so that when you do switch you will properly release insulin.

I did CKD for 12 weeks prior to the high carb/low fat.

[gekkoboy14]

Actually I ate more than 1g/lb. when it came to protein.

Muscle is lost on keto diets because of this:

Workouts are not fueled by ketones, but by carbs. You take carbs out, what happens? Your body cannot turn to fat for fuel when weight lifting, it just doesn't happen. What happens is that it turns to protein. Obviously NOT good.

u can use intramuscluar triglycerides, and get glucose from that.

[chris_wescott]

ONLY PUSSYS DONT TAKE CARBS BRO. ITS A KNOWN FACT THAT 70 GRAMS OF QUICK CARBS IMMEDIATELY AFTER WORKOUTS INCREASE GH LEVELS. and they make u look like me. HAHHAAHAHAHAHHA

[gettnthere]

ive lost about 10lbs in the past 2-3 weeks on keto so far, im a meso and my strength really hasnt been affected much....i was like 176 when i started and hadnt been training or eating well for awhile...this morning i was 165.0 and i deadlifted 405 for reps last night...along with 315x15 after and i can still get 225 for 10+ reps on bench. I completely agree with the whole you dont need carbs thing. Especially after i listened too the speech evan centopani gave at the arnold classic expo last year in the animal cage about how you dont need carbs. He diet's with keto, i kno frankhouser does too, most of the guys @ animal pak do. It's an effective very low cost way of dieting...someone said something about the things carbs do for you and i study anatomy. Carbs are the beginning of the stages and different cycles to produce atp in the body. When you eliminate carbs from the body it simply converts to the 2nd source on the list, fatty acids and adipose tissue. As long as you give yourself ample fats and take things liek bcaa's your not gonna lose muscle, because amino acids and proteins are the bodies LAST resort for atp production.

[gainmusclefast]

but carbs taste better

[gettnthere]

but carbs taste better

Your mind just think's they do...once your body converts to using fat as your primary source of energy you'll be craving fats more than anything. After my 48 hour refeed this weekend which included alot of dirty carbs :-/ i was DYINGG for carbs yesterday and i was at around 168.6 sunday night up from 163.0 on friday. This morning im 165.0 so the gained water weight shud be completely off tomorrow morning, but like i was sayin....by today im craving nothing but fats..i'd kill for some bacon with cheese right now

[gainmusclefast]

Your mind just think's they do...once your body converts to using fat as your primary source of energy you'll be craving fats more than anything. After my 48 hour refeed this weekend which included alot of dirty carbs :-/ i was DYINGG for carbs yesterday and i was at around 168.6 sunday night up from 163.0 on friday. This morning im 165.0 so the gained water weight shud be completely off tomorrow morning, but like i was sayin....by today im craving nothing but fats..i'd kill for some bacon with cheese right now

not me

[Djin]

Your mind just think's they do...once your body converts to using fat as your primary source of energy you'll be craving fats more than anything. After my 48 hour refeed this weekend which included alot of dirty carbs :-/ i was DYINGG for carbs yesterday and i was at around 168.6 sunday night up from 163.0 on friday. This morning im 165.0 so the gained water weight shud be completely off tomorrow morning, but like i was sayin....by today im craving nothing but fats..i'd kill for some bacon with cheese right now

I hear ya. I have went from 100g carbs a day to over 500g on a refeed yesterday. I went from 191lbs -> 200lbs... after a piss back to 197lbs.

Right now... I'm not craving anything. It's odd.

[gettnthere]

I hear ya. I have went from 100g carbs a day to over 500g on a refeed yesterday. I went from 191lbs -> 200lbs... after a piss back to 197lbs.

Right now... I'm not craving anything. It's odd.

yea man honestly...im takin in probably 1500-1800 calories a day and by the end of the week i get so used to bein starving that im jus not even rly hungry anymore...until the weekend comes and i take the first bite of that hoagie mmmm

[Ted Nugent]

yea man honestly...im takin in probably 1500-1800 calories a day and by the end of the week i get so used to bein starving that im jus not even rly hungry anymore...until the weekend comes and i take the first bite of that hoagie mmmm

why so little calories??

[Djin]

yea man honestly...im takin in probably 1500-1800 calories a day and by the end of the week i get so used to bein starving that im jus not even rly hungry anymore...until the weekend comes and i take the first bite of that hoagie mmmm

I just gorged myself yesterday. Ate a lot of **** I wouldn't. Today I'm just not hungry... I don't see anything wrong with what I'm doing.

[smackdaddyD]

I did keto well over 7 months trying to make it work.

The drop wasn't sudden, but it did happen.

I lost like 16 lb. of muscle on keto.

Then you weren't doing it correctly. Seriously.

Most likely, you bought into the "weekly carbup" that is so strongly advocated on this forum. My experience is that a weekly carbup inhibits the bodies ability to become fat-adapted, and continues to turn protein into glucose.

I do 15g of dextrose in my PWO shake and my only carbup comes when I get burned out or plateau after months and months and need to shake things up.

[J1n]

I did keto well over 7 months trying to make it work.

The drop wasn't sudden, but it did happen.

I lost like 16 lb. of muscle on keto.

why the hell did you stay on it for so long if you lost that much strength and muscle? i did it for a month and had enough with the strength loss. i just checked yesterday and im down a little over 1/4" on my arms

[smackdaddyD]

Actually I ate more than 1g/lb. when it came to protein.

Muscle is lost on keto diets because of this:

Workouts are not fueled by ketones, but by carbs. You take carbs out, what happens? Your body cannot turn to fat for fuel when weight lifting, it just doesn't happen. What happens is that it turns to protein. Obviously NOT good.

That's not quite correct. Your body can happily consume ketones for energy when still working aerobically. Not all lifting is done anaerobically.

It also sounds like your protein intake was too high.

#1) The 1g/lb bit is nonsense. Different types of proteins have different levels of bioavailability. The whey protein in your PWO shake and the eggs you eat for breakfast? Your body uses nearly 100% of that protein. Other sources of protein? Not nearly as high. So, not all "grams of protein" are created equal, and almost everybody on this forum eats more protein than they need.

#2) You will be hard pressed to consume the proper fat ratio if you eat that much protein. By skimping on the amount of fat in your diet, you encourage your body to convert the excess protein to glucose and use that rather than ketones, inhibiting your ability to become fat adapted.

[J1n]

LOL at all the KETO fan boys tryin to back it up.

The fact is KETO will work differently for everyone because everyone is different.

it didnt work for me. yeah i lost fat but i lost muscle too. i did it 100% i didnt BS and my results were bad. so im off it now.

pretty much just find what works for you and do it.

[Djin]

when you are on a keto diet you do not feel week because your body is using fats as energy, you actually feel stronger at all times. that is if you are in ketosis, if you arent then you will feel bad

So what about someone like myself. I shoot for 100g. I know this isn't keto, but it's pretty low.

[J1n]

when you are on a keto diet you do not feel week because your body is using fats as energy, you actually feel stronger at all times. that is if you are in ketosis, if you arent then you will feel bad

ive worked out deep in ketosis and worked out fueled by carbs
the intensity on carbs is MUCH higher then on keto.

but then again like i said its different for every1.

[J1n]

YOu probaly lost muscle becuase either your cardio was to high intensity you have to do low intensity cardio where your heart rate doesnt go higher than 130, also you cannot do high volume training on this diet. you have to do less sets and high intensity

another reason why i dont like KETO. i was doing LISS. walking on an incline for 40min -1hour is boing as fck.

[Djin]

its low but, you arent in ketosis, you can miss ketosis by 2-3 grams of carbs. if you arent in ketosis then you will feel horrible. ONce in ketosis you will feel good

That's the whole point though. I'm not trying to go keto, but wanted to know if 100g would still warrant decent results compared to not even counting carbs... (while cutting that is)

[J1n]

yea thats plumbos diet.

i did that but modified it to fit my cals. but mine looked pretty damn close to that.

mine was

4 whole eggs or 3 eggs 2 pieces of bacon. (same cals)

whey shake pb or almods

steak/chicken/fish green veg

whey shake pb or almods

steak/chicken/fish green veg

Casein shake + pb or almods


all around 2000 cals. half from fats


like i said i did it 100%. i lost strength on this diet. not on all my lifts but i still lost strength on most of them.

[Djin]

it will but when counting carbs it will depend on you body and you will feel tired beause your body is gonna want carbs and you arent giving it. But doing it that way you have to go by your weight scale and the mirror and manipulate the carbs. if after a week a two it looks like you arent making progress then you probaly gotta drop the carbs or do more cardio

I've been cyclying carbs and found in a month I've made good progression on fat lose. I have posted a one month before and after, and it's clear you can see less fat around my chest and stomach area. My weight seems to still be in the same area, but you can see the difference. Not sure what to think about the weight not moving.

[smackdaddyD]

I've been cyclying carbs and found in a month I've made good progression on fat lose. I have posted a one month before and after, and it's clear you can see less fat around my chest and stomach area. My weight seems to still be in the same area, but you can see the difference. Not sure what to think about the weight not moving.

Something quite common for people who switch to a lower carb diet is a gain in LBM while losing fat, which will result in a static weight level but with improved measurements.

[J1n]

thats the problem you modified it that is the diet for a 200lbs guy if you modified it wrong then you arent gonna get good results

lol how does that make any sense?

im not 200lbs so i modified it to fit my cals. protein fat and carb ratios were pretty much the same.

i lost weight on the diet!!! thats not the problem. the problem was i lost strength and probably some muscle.

[J1n]

I work with palumbo I weigh less than 200lbs as well im curently 183lbs but he modified it for me.

wtf does that mean? i cant modify it myself? its not that fckin hard brah

[Djin]

Something quite common for people who switch to a lower carb diet is a gain in LBM while losing fat, which will result in a static weight level but with improved measurements.

I eat about 2,000 - 2,500 calories (about 500 less then what I burn), I lift moderate to heavy and my protein is 1:1 ratio with my bodyweight.

I'd love to build some LBM while losing.

if you are seeing results then dont worry to much about the scale you just wanna use the scale to make sure you didnt do something drastic like lose 10 pounds in one week or gain. other than that you mirror is your friend weight is unimportant you just wanna make sure you are loosing fat and not much muscle mass

I'll tell you this... when I was bulking for the last six months, my quads started to not fit in my 32" pants... a couples weeks after with the lowered carbs, they fit perfect... Usually my weight goes up and down, but this is normal for everyone. (Water, food, etc)

Thanks both of you. I'll keep trucking and plugging away.

[gjohnson5]

are you serious? i call BS. and im not some KETO fan boy. i just stoped doing KETO this weekend.

i was on it for about a month. my strength went down. my bench went from 190x10 to like 185x5. i dont get how it could go down 100+lbs. how long did you do KETO for?

i agree KETO isnt for every1 and that is why i stopped. BUT im not going to switch to a high carb diet like you suggest in all your threads. i will go on a more traditional cut. pretty much like i would a clean bulk but smaller portions to keep me at a caloric deficit.

I didn't.
You can't believe everyone's bro stats...

Then again I believe he's been owned a number of times on nutrition threads
He just put his foot in his mouth yet again

[J1n]

I guess what im trying to say is that maybe the modification wasn't correct. I mean I know you lose strength its gonna happen on any diet you do but my strength hasnt decreased drasticaly like when I was on standard diet

im not you and your not me.

like i said we are all different so what may work for one person may not work for some1 else. my point is keto aint some miricle diet that people make it out to be.