Too much cardio causing pause in fat loss?

[RachelBringIt]

Im training for an adventure race right now and ive been working out at the gym for the last 2 months 5-6x a week sometimes twice a day. Normally I run 2-3x a week, bike 2x a week, swim once a week and lift 4x a week. Once a week I do an endurance day in which I run 3-4 miles, bike 15-20 miles and do the rowing machine for 2-3 miles. My diet is incheck, i track everything I eat and I eat 500 below matience + whatever I burn at the gym (which is usually 400-1100 cals, depending).

The first month I was at the gym I lifted primarily 4-5x a week and only did cardio 3x a week (ran a couple miles each time) and the fat was falling off, then ever since I upped my training Ive noticed my body holding onto a lot even though Im eating enough and still have the 500 deficit.

Is the amount of cardio Im doing hindering my fat loss?

[obesebeast]

wow you're active, I can't say for sure but if I hit a plateau, I'd change the contents of my diet

have you considered CKD?

[RachelBringIt]

wow you're active, I can't say for sure but if I hit a plateau, I'd change the contents of my diet

have you considered CKD?

Yeah Ive looked into it but honestly I wouldn't be able to stick with it. My macros are usually 40% carb,35% protein and 25% fat. Although on an endurance day I have to increase carbs pre/post workout to save muscle. On lift days I have higher protein and lower carbs.

For what its worth, a typical day but it changes depending on what day it is at the gym.

7am B: 2 pieces WW toast, 2 eggs

10am S: Apple, 1/4 cup almonds, seeds, mixed nuts

-Workout here-

1pm PWO: 2 scoops whey + 1 cup 1%milk

3pm L: 4oz lean meat + sweet potato + mixed veggies

-2nd workout here-

6pm D: 4oz lean meat + rice or couscous+ veggies (baby spinach usually)

9pm:S: protein sludge + 1 tbsp PB

[obesebeast]

perhaps you are overtraining then, although if it's for a competition, can't really say rest more

i likely overtrain too as I'm doing 5-6 high volume lifting days and 5-6 mixed LISS or HIIT cardio everyday on a ~700 cal deficit too, i had plateaued around 205 for 3 months until I tried a month of keto...dropped 10lbs and 1% bf in a month...went back to 12f/44c/44p for a month maintained the same weight, keto again(this month) and the weight continues to come off, dropped another 1.5% bf too according to the most recent 3 site test

although i'm much bigger

[th3pwn3r]

Same thing happened to me when I hit 156 pounds. I hit a plateau for a bit. I'm guessing my body was in starvation mode. Since then I bulked and am on a cut with no cardio. Once I get to my desired body fat level I'll step up my cardio to get my heart back in the game.

[PrinceAric]

Ah yes, the fight against nature and what your body was built for.
At first glance my answer was going to be you don't have enough fats coming in for your body to feel comfortable letting go of what it has, but it looks like you have some so that may not be it. Have you tried putting Omegas in your diet? Seems like you've got the peanut oils coming covered (I would play with cutting out the PB and heavy stuff late at night)
I would play with those Omegas first since they also effect hormones (in a good way, but estrogen is a big culprit for fat storage in women) as well. There's lots more I could say, but start somewhere and build off that. Hope this helps a little.

[RachelBringIt]

Same thing happened to me when I hit 156 pounds. I hit a plateau for a bit. I'm guessing my body was in starvation mode. Since then I bulked and am on a cut with no cardio. Once I get to my desired body fat level I'll step up my cardio to get my heart back in the game.

I really doubt im in starvation mode since I eat upwards of 2200-2700 cals some days. I also have a cheat day once a week where i usually go a little over maintenance (100-200 cals) Ive heard that helps some people. I guess maybe i am plateauing. Bummer

Ah yes, the fight against nature and what your body was built for.
At first glance my answer was going to be you don't have enough fats coming in for your body to feel comfortable letting go of what it has, but it looks like you have some so that may not be it. Have you tried putting Omegas in your diet? Seems like you've got the peanut oils coming covered (I would play with cutting out the PB and heavy stuff late at night)
I would play with those Omegas first since they also effect hormones (in a good way, but estrogen is a big culprit for fat storage in women) as well. There's lots more I could say, but start somewhere and build off that. Hope this helps a little.

I forgot to put I do take salmon oil everyday, I also cook with butter. I try and keep my fats between 25-27%. Never below. So i dont think that is it.

Grah im so frustrated. Thanks for your responses so far, id love to hear if anyone else has ideas too.

[BrainSlayer]

Doing Cardio After awhile you heart and lungs gets stronger and more efficient,and end up burning less calories then before.Also As you lose weight you also have less weight to move and easier on your heart/lungs, you burn less Calories. When you do Long intense cardio over One Hour the Ratio Of Fat to Muscle Burned for fuel Switches to More Muscle for fuel after Glycogen depletes,you can stall it a bit if you drink a sports drink/refuel during that time also,but wont last that long.

I was reading about "FAT Loading" for Ultra/Endurance/& Tri Athletes Athletes, pretty interesting,

Something like 10 days fat loading and 3 days carb loading before a race, I think,it said cyclist benefited little more then marathon runners, probably more steady pace,athletes can handle the fat better then overweight people,the fat is burn more efficiently,and preserves Glycogen(fuel that runs out faster).I think the fat loading was something like 50%-65% of diet.It showed delayed Fatigue & increases in endurance.
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Considering a High Fat Loading Versus Traditional Carbohdyrate Loading:

If you’ve ever participated in any type of endurance event before, you’ve likely heard about the carbohydrate loading strategies that many of these athletes perform in order to try and maximize their muscle glycogen levels to achieve better performance.

The thinking behind carbohydrate loading is that by first depleting the muscle glycogen levels and then loading with carbohydrates, you will really increase the amount the body is able to store, thus preventing the onset of fatigue while exercising.

But is carbohydrate loading the only way to accomplish such a goal?

This is what researchers from the Sports Science Institute of South Africa decided to look at. They wanted to see what the effect would be if athletes were fed a higher fat diet prior to the actual carbohydrate load just before the race would be in contrast with a more typical mixed diet.

They had subjects either eat a high fat diet (65% or more calories from fat) or else a standard diet (about 30% of calories from fat) for a period of ten days before entering a three day period of a high carb loading diet (greater than 70% calories from carbohydrates).

The results of the study indicated that both groups showed similar weight, body fat, and lipid profiles and there was no change in the circulating glucose, lactate, or free fatty acids while the exercise was taking place.

The high fat diet prior to the carb load however did increase the total fat oxidation rate, thus meaning the athletes were not using as much of the stored carbohydrate during the actual event.

This then demonstrates that starting with a period of higher fat eating, then doing your carbohydrate load, could potentially be more advantageous towards keeping muscle glycogen stores fuller during prolonged exercise than using the standard higher carb
diet approach.

Reference:
Dennis, SC. (2001) High-fat diet versus habitual diet prior to carbohydrate loading: effects of exercise metabolism and cycling performance. Int J Sport Nutr Exercise Metabolism. Jun;11(2):209-25.

[RachelBringIt]

Doing Cardio After awhile you heart and lungs gets stronger and more efficient,and end up burning less calories then before.Also As you lose weight you also have less weight to move and easier on your heart/lungs, you burn less Calories.

I was reading about "FAT Loading" for Ultra/Endurance/& Tri Athletes Athletes, pretty interesting,

Something like 10 days fat loading and 3 days carb loading before a race, I think,it said cyclist benefited little more then marathon runners, probably more steady pace,athletes can handle the fat better then overweight people,the fat is burn more efficiently,and preserves Glycogen(fuel that runs out faster).I think the fat loading was something like 50%-65% of diet(EEEK!I think I would get sick eating so much fat.)

It showed delayed Fatigue & increases in endurance.

Interesting about the fat loading, ill have to look into that.

I use a HRM to get an accurate reading of how much a burn at the gym so I can be right on with my cals for the day.

Its so frustrating because I put so much effort into it, and it feels like Im going backwards sometimes. I just hope ill have a good race day next week.

[THE_TRUTH86]

yeah sometimes too much cardio can do that, i would cut back on cardio to 4 days @ 30 min after weights.

[jimmyejacky]

You need to switch it up in my opinion.

[R3nzo]

She looks perfect now. IMO

[BrainSlayer]

I read some bodybuilder also do fat loading or also Junk Loading the day before they go on stage.I think to fill the muscle cells to become little fuller with out pulling in water like what carbs do or something.

found this interesting also:

http://health.iafrica.com/fitness/ru...fatloading.htm

.....the fat your loading supposedly gets stored
However, we also know that training increases the number of mitochondria, the energy producers in cells, in muscle, which allows better use of fat as a fuel in endurance running (see Training and muscle metabolism). Through training you can burn more fat at racing pace, so sparing your glycogen supplies.

For some time now there has been a suggestion that fat loading may improve performance. The interest in this arose when it was realised that enhanced fat utilisation may be very important since it affects how fast your limited glycogen stores are used. Is there a dietary technique similar to carbo-loading which will improve your ability to use fats while racing?

Fats and performance

Research, including that carried out at the Sports Science Institute of South Africa, suggests that there may be.

Animal studies in which the animals were fed a high fat diet for more than 4 weeks showed a significant increase in endurance performance. In some older studies on humans researchers found some indication of increased fat utilisation, but could not replicate the increased endurance performance found in animal studies.

However, recent work is more promising. A review of runners diets found that most runners are actually eating 50% carbohydrate rather than the 60 to 70% recommended anyway, so eat a higher fat diet than originally thought. These athletes were performing well. Was this in part due to their higher intake of fat?

To investigate this, researchers studied trained cyclists. They placed them on two regimes: a high fat diet (67% fat, 7% carbohydrate, 26% protein) and a high carbohydrate diet (74% carbohydrate, 12% fat, 14% protein). They then evaluated their endurance exercise performance.

Obviously those on a high fat diet had lower muscle glycogen stores than those on the high carbohydrate diet. How did each group perform?

Over short periods and at very high intensity (anaerobic type) there was no difference. However, when exercised to exhaustion differences started to appear. The carbo-loaded group took 50% longer to cycle to exhaustion at high intensities than the fat-loaded group. However, at moderate intensity, the fat-loaded group rode for 87% longer than the carbo-loaded group, when exercising to exhaustion.

So, at moderate intensities, over a long time period there would seem to be some advantage to fat loading.

Scientists are not quite sure how this is achieved. It may be that fat-loading increases the oxidative enzymes in muscles, which will allow more fat to be burnt at race pace. This is actually a similar adaptation to that found in the muscles after training. There are some who believe that a combination of a high fat diet and the correct training will increase this effect even more.

It would also seem that you can carbo-load and fat-load. Optimal fat loading probably takes around 10 days, allowing you to carbo-load for the last three days before the race. In fact another study of cyclists in South Africa showed that those who fat-loaded and then carbo-loaded in the traditional way improved their 20 km time trial by 1.5 minutes.

Tim Noakes of the Sports Science Institute of South Africa says that recent research in this centre has shown that the ability to store glycogen using carbo-loading is not adversely affected by preceding fat-loading.

To fat load or not

This is all very preliminary research, so at present it is not advisable to try this technique unless you are under the supervision of a trained exercise physiologist.

Most marathons are run at very high intensities, so fat-loading may not have any benefit at these intensities anyway. Most of the work so far has been with cycling, a different type of endurance sport.

It may be than fat-loading is most appropriate for very long races, ultra-marathons and more, and for iron man type triathlon events, not for normal marathons.

There is also the potential problem of the health risks of a high fat diet. If you are a lean elite athlete, with a very high proportion of muscle to fat, then fat-loading is probably going to be alright. However, if you are a normal weight recreational runner with a family history of cardiovascular disease, then this probably is not for you.

What this research does suggest is that elite athletes can probably eat more fat in their diets without damaging their performance. They may in fact enhance it, depending on the type of event they train for, particularly if they only increase their fat intake in the weeks before an event.

[RachelBringIt]

yeah sometimes too much cardio can do that, i would cut back on cardio to 4 days @ 30 min after weights.

i cant right now, training for adventure race but I will during down time.


Thanks for the article on the fat/junk loading!!

[Djin]

Im training for an adventure race right now and ive been working out at the gym for the last 2 months 5-6x a week sometimes twice a day. Normally I run 2-3x a week, bike 2x a week, swim once a week and lift 4x a week. Once a week I do an endurance day in which I run 3-4 miles, bike 15-20 miles and do the rowing machine for 2-3 miles. My diet is incheck, i track everything I eat and I eat 500 below matience + whatever I burn at the gym (which is usually 400-1100 cals, depending).

The first month I was at the gym I lifted primarily 4-5x a week and only did cardio 3x a week (ran a couple miles each time) and the fat was falling off, then ever since I upped my training Ive noticed my body holding onto a lot even though Im eating enough and still have the 500 deficit.

Is the amount of cardio Im doing hindering my fat loss?

Adventure race? Is that like an ultra marathon? I've been training to run short races since I can do 10mph for 2 miles.

I think your body has adapted to all your work out... perhaps a couple days off might give your body the needed rest it wants to fully repair. You'll be surprised what a week does to your body when you just relax.

[crupiea]

You are not eating enough to support the training you are doing. Move up the calories some and you will see results.

You will see the best results if you eat plenty and dont worry about fat lose and just focus on the training.

Intensive training like this requires fuel to kepp going. It has to come from somewhere.

I personally would stop worrying about losing fat and start dialing up the training and diet to match. That way you will have plenty in the tank come show time.

Otherwise you are just kind of doing bits of both and your results will be less than what you can really do.

[RachelBringIt]

Adventure race? Is that like an ultra marathon? I've been training to run short races since I can do 10mph for 2 miles.

I think your body has adapted to all your work out... perhaps a couple days off might give your body the needed rest it wants to fully repair. You'll be surprised what a week does to your body when you just relax.

Yeah adventure races vary in length and time, some are 2 days long, most are 12-24 hours and sprints very from 4-8 hours. I have a sprint (4 hour) next weekend so this week is just light lifting, lots of stretching and maybe 1 or two light cardio days. After the race ill be takin a break, which might help.

You are not eating enough to support the training you are doing. Move up the calories some and you will see results.

You will see the best results if you eat plenty and dont worry about fat lose and just focus on the training.

Intensive training like this requires fuel to kepp going. It has to come from somewhere.

I personally would stop worrying about losing fat and start dialing up the training and diet to match. That way you will have plenty in the tank come show time.

Otherwise you are just kind of doing bits of both and your results will be less than what you can really do.

Yeah, i think maybe i should stop tracking so close and just listen to my body, if im hungry ill eat, if not I wont. I guess ill worry about loosing weight after the racing and just focus on that for now.

thanks so much for all the replies

[DJCole]

I use a HRM to get an accurate reading of how much a burn at the gym so I can be right on with my cals for the day.

I just noticed this,

I think what im about to say might have been hinted at earlier also, When was the last time you calibrated your heart rate monitor? as you lose weight you also burn less calories so its one of the main parameters you need to check if you really want an accurate reading to work with, kcal burnt also changes with other factors, max heart rate, resting heart rate, and from there predicted v02 max. So it does pay to find a quite time of day to do a resting heart rate (with all the endurance work it will be down), re-program your weight etc.

I use an HRM also, polar RS200 and swear by them, but to be honest im not the best at keeping the above in check, haven't adjusted my stats in ages until last week, now I find my post workout cardio burns 100kcal less then what it did previously on the incorrect data, purely on account of the weight I have lost, so yeah 100kcal is quite a bit of inaccuracy ... but not really in the grand scheme of things.

just something to think about, cheers.

Ohh maybe try asking around in other catagories???

[BrainSlayer]

I agree with him too. you might be burning lots of calories working out,and even at rest after a work out-metabolism stay up for several hours after, something like 24-48 hours or something. pretty much its like Exercise Bulimia,body might not be getting enough nutrients because its all being purged going to energy working out,so your body is starving and hanging on to fat for survival. isn't it 3500 calories equals to burn one pound of fat, maybe that could be used as reserve fuel lol.

Damn thats a long race! Bring some toilet Paper! or do you just pee as you go. I heard Marathon runners are just as Bad as Dogs, they pee and poop sometimes in front of peoples yards and bushes but I bet they dont pick it up.

You are not eating enough to support the training you are doing. Move up the calories some and you will see results.

You will see the best results if you eat plenty and dont worry about fat lose and just focus on the training.

Intensive training like this requires fuel to kepp going. It has to come from somewhere.

I personally would stop worrying about losing fat and start dialing up the training and diet to match. That way you will have plenty in the tank come show time.

Otherwise you are just kind of doing bits of both and your results will be less than what you can really do.

[RachelBringIt]

I just noticed this,

I think what im about to say might have been hinted at earlier also, When was the last time you calibrated your heart rate monitor? as you lose weight you also burn less calories so its one of the main parameters you need to check if you really want an accurate reading to work with, kcal burnt also changes with other factors, max heart rate, resting heart rate, and from there predicted v02 max. So it does pay to find a quite time of day to do a resting heart rate (with all the endurance work it will be down), re-program your weight etc.

I use an HRM also, polar RS200 and swear by them, but to be honest im not the best at keeping the above in check, haven't adjusted my stats in ages until last week, now I find my post workout cardio burns 100kcal less then what it did previously on the incorrect data, purely on account of the weight I have lost, so yeah 100kcal is quite a bit of inaccuracy ... but not really in the grand scheme of things.

just something to think about, cheers.

Ohh maybe try asking around in other catagories???

Thats a good point, i havent changed the settings in a month. Thanks for the idea, ill try to do this.

I agree with him too. you might be burning lots of calories working out,and even at rest after a work out-metabolism stay up for several hours after, something like 24-48 hours or something. pretty much its like Exercise Bulimia,body might not be getting enough nutrients because its all being purged going to energy working out,so your body is starving and hanging on to fat for survival. isn't it 3500 calories equals to burn one pound of fat, maybe that could be used as reserve fuel lol.

Damn thats a long race! Bring some toilet Paper! or do you just pee as you go. I heard Marathon runners are just as Bad as Dogs, they pee and poop sometimes in front of peoples yards and bushes but I bet they dont pick it up.

Yeah thats true, Maybe Im burning more cals than I think and my body is like "nooo thats mine!". Ill eat more the next week and then drop down once my cardio calms down a bit.

Honestly you sweat so much you never have to pee, which is weird when you are drinking 1L an hour. Ive never been out so long that id have to do...the other one, but ive seen a lot of competitve teams in races such as primal quest wear adult diapers (ewww). I would take my chance in the forrest, do the ol' squat lol.

[Djin]

Know who Michele Phelps is? He would eat 10,000 calories a day, look at him.

You are eating not enough, especially for what you're doing. (Sounds badass too!)

Where would you do such a race? Where do you sleep?

[RachelBringIt]

Know who Michele Phelps is? He would eat 10,000 calories a day, look at him.

You are eating not enough, especially for what you're doing. (Sounds badass too!)

Where would you do such a race? Where do you sleep?

True, Im no micheal phelps but I feel for him having to eat that much, thats insane!!

There are races all over the country, you can find the calender of races at USARA.com Usually in a 24 hour race you dont sleep, if its anymore than a day you bring supplies to make a camp.

[obesebeast]

i can eat 10,000 cal of dirty cals like phelps and burn it out of my system within a few days....there is no way an athlete would actually eat like that everyday....it's just a PR stunt to show off his metabolism

[BrainSlayer]

Actually Swimming Burns Way more calories then Running. Water acts as Resistance, and you are using your whole Body

i can eat 10,000 cal of dirty cals like phelps and burn it out of my system within a few days....there is no way an athlete would actually eat like that everyday....it's just a PR stunt to show off his metabolism

[Djin]

True, Im no micheal phelps but I feel for him having to eat that much, thats insane!!

There are races all over the country, you can find the calender of races at USARA.com Usually in a 24 hour race you dont sleep, if its anymore than a day you bring supplies to make a camp.

Nice. Looks interesting. I am no where near that shape or endurance yet. The best endurance I got is 2 miles at 10mph. After that I gas.

Is it just to do it for personal goals, or do you win prizes/cash?? Just seems crazy.

[RachelBringIt]

Nice. Looks interesting. I am no where near that shape or endurance yet. The best endurance I got is 2 miles at 10mph. After that I gas.

Is it just to do it for personal goals, or do you win prizes/cash?? Just seems crazy.

It takes a lot outta ya. Ive been buildin up endurance since the summer. Thats a pretty good place to start though, i also add in some brick training to build endurance in other muscle groups like rowing, etc.

I do it for personal goals mainly, i just like pushing myself and I also just love being out in nature and mountain biking. You can win prizes and cash but im not near that good enough to make top 4....yet .

[kranked]

Take 2 days off, throw down some dirty cals. eat above maintenance, throw your system a curve ball. Works everytime.

I'd suggest taking a few more days off but it sounds like you don't have time to sacrifice.

[RachelBringIt]

Take 2 days off, throw down some dirty cals. eat above maintenance, throw your system a curve ball. Works everytime.

I'd suggest taking a few more days off but it sounds like you don't have time to sacrifice.

Yeah well our race is Saturday so this week is a tapering week. I took yesterday off after a crazy intense workout on Friday and Im just going to do some light lifting today at the gym. Im not going to count my cals this week either. Which is hard since im sorta a perfectionist and like my macros to be as exact as possible. Perhaps I should have a couple higher cal days to spike my metabolism. Hmmm.....what to eat....

[Djin]

It takes a lot outta ya. Ive been buildin up endurance since the summer. Thats a pretty good place to start though, i also add in some brick training to build endurance in other muscle groups like rowing, etc.

I do it for personal goals mainly, i just like pushing myself and I also just love being out in nature and mountain biking. You can win prizes and cash but im not near that good enough to make top 4....yet .

You should make a thread when you're about to do it... I'm interested in how you do.

[RachelBringIt]

You should make a thread when you're about to do it... I'm interested in how you do.

aww thanks!! Perhaps I will, i have a friend who will be taking photos throughout the race, maybe a slideshow in which u see me get progressively more tired is in order. lol