Cardio before breakfast, extreme cotton mouth and all day nausea. Help!

Elfie. · 02-12-2009, 12:54 PM

So I'm finally giving this fitness thing a try and so far it's not going very well. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong so I'm hoping some of you experienced folks can help me out. For 4 days I've been doing morning cardio on an empty stomach because as I understand it, fasted cardio has greater fat burning effects. Well for 4 days straight after my cardio I feel like heaving pretty much the whole day and am literally having to force feed myself and hoping it stays down. During the workout my mouth and throat are VERY dry even though I drink about a liter of water pre workout. I suppose the nausea problem lies within my supps mixing together in my stomach and not getting along with each other very well. Morning supps as follows:

1500 mg carnitine
500mg choline
2 six star nitric oxide overdrive tablets

30 minutes later (before workout)

10 mg ephedrine
150 mg caffeine
200 mg kola nut powder
400 mg yohimbe (8 mg yohimbine alkaloids)

If anyone has any suggestions for food that's gentle on the stomach and that won't make me toss my cookies even though I'm feeling pukey I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

Opies · 02-12-2009, 01:03 PM

you shouldn't be mixing that many stims with NO products. I avoid ephedrine, even 8mg on days when I take NO because it screws with my blood pressure big time and makes me feel weird all day. Also, fasted cardio sucks. Drink a shake or something 10-20 minutes before you run with like 30g C / 30g P and cut out the NO product. NO isn't doing much for you with cardio

Also, why are you taking 500mg choline every day? sounds like a good way to imbalance the transmitters in your CNS, although I really have no idea on the actual effects of dietary choline

jipp · 02-12-2009, 01:03 PM

Hmmmm.... Haven't heard of that one before. What intensity are doing it at? Fasted vardio should be done LI. Anything other than that, you should have a meal before hand.

Dave P · 02-12-2009, 01:12 PM

ECY stacks are usually bad news as is fasted cardio.

cyde · 02-12-2009, 01:23 PM

What kind of ephedrine are you taking - does it have any additives? IMO you should drop the Y because it's not needed in the EC stack. EC alone is very powerful if used properly, and shouldn't be taken lightly. If you want to add something to the mix, ECGC would be a great option to replace yohimbine & kola nut powder.

Some people do not respond well to yohimbine, me for one, so you should assess your tolerance to each product before throwing a bunch of pills in your stomach & hoping for the best.

KJR246 · 02-12-2009, 01:27 PM

Fasted cardio is not a good idea, but if it's really low intensity then it can't do too much harm. Low intensity cardio is boring as **** though. It's easier to just grab a snack and do some sprints or something. I guess it's preference though.

cyde · 02-12-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJR246

Fasted cardio is not a good idea, but if it's really low intensity then it can't do too much harm. Low intensity cardio is boring as **** though. It's easier to just grab a snack and do some sprints or something. I guess it's preference though.

lol it's not the fasted cardio or diet. it's the absurd combination of supplements she's taking to lose weight.

Elfie. · 02-12-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opies

you shouldn't be mixing that many stims with NO products. I avoid ephedrine, even 8mg on days when I take NO because it screws with my blood pressure big time and makes me feel weird all day. Also, fasted cardio sucks. Drink a shake or something 10-20 minutes before you run with like 30g C / 30g P and cut out the NO product. NO isn't doing much for you with cardio

Also, why are you taking 500mg choline every day? sounds like a good way to imbalance the transmitters in your CNS, although I really have no idea on the actual effects of dietary choline

Choline is a lipotropic that's supposed to have a synergistic fat burning effect combined with carnitine. According to this anyway:

"Choline and carnitine are commonly used nutritional supplements, usually used alone or in combination and typically for the purposes of fat loss. Carnitine is essential for fatty acid transport and proper muscle function, and some studies have shown that carnitine supplementation improves exercise performance.

Choline is a lipotropic agent that prevents deposition of fat in the liver. It is an essential nutrient for humans by giving cell membranes structural strength and providing structure to cell membranes and is involved in the signaling across this membrane as well as synthesis and release of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. Like carnitine, choline supplementation may also improve physical performance."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/md83.htm

The reason I take NO before cardio is because it's said to help prevent muscle breakdown. (humor me, I'm the noobiest of the noobs when it comes to muscle related issues)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jipp

Hmmmm.... Haven't heard of that one before. What intensity are doing it at? Fasted vardio should be done LI. Anything other than that, you should have a meal before hand.

Honestly I don't go that hard at all. 35 minutes on an elliptical at level 9 but after I'm done I'm gasping for air feeling like I'm about to croak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave P

ECY stacks are usually bad news as is fasted cardio.

Could you elaborate please? Not that I really need more proof since I feel like crap I'm just wondering if these side effects are common.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyde

What kind of ephedrine are you taking - does it have any additives? IMO you should drop the Y because it's not needed in the EC stack. EC alone is very powerful if used properly, and shouldn't be taken lightly. If you want to add something to the mix, ECGC would be a great option to replace yohimbine & kola nut powder.

Some people do not respond well to yohimbine, me for one, so you should assess your tolerance to each product before throwing a bunch of pills in your stomach & hoping for the best.

No additives in the ephedrine I'm taking. The reason I'm taking yohimbe is because it's an alpha-2-Receptor antagonist and (supposedly) helpful for burning hip and thigh fat (my two problem areas).

SpinFan · 02-12-2009, 01:50 PM

i really don't understand how you can take all of that crap on an empty stomach and be surprised that you aren't feeling well or are dehydrated. Eat something in the morning and just take the NO. The problem isn't that working out "isn't going well", it's your supps.

KJR246 · 02-12-2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyde

lol it's not the fasted cardio or diet. it's the absurd combination of supplements she's taking to lose weight.

True

cyde · 02-12-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfie.

No additives in the ephedrine I'm taking. The reason I'm taking yohimbe is because it's an alpha-2-Receptor antagonist and (supposedly) helpful for burning hip and thigh fat (my two problem areas).

Key word here. Supposedly its helps but the crutial factors are diet & exercise. Health > results. You need to lay off the supplements before you hospitalize yourself. Seriously, stop taking that ****.

Dave P · 02-12-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfie.

Could you elaborate please? Not that I really need more proof since I feel like crap I'm just wondering if these side effects are common.

I'm not going to go into the technical aspects of it but I will say that every time I've ever tried doing EC + Y I end up sitting on the couch for an hour or two with such intense jitteriness/heart pounding that I can't even think of going to the gym to workout.

Yohimbine is just a "dirty" feeling supplement in general. Most users report feeling like **** when using it and when combined with E/C it goes through the roof.

Ephedrine = 1

Caffeine = 1

E + C = 2

E + C + Y = 50

Something about that Y just makes **** go crazy....so yea if I had to single out one thing that was making you feel like **** I'd put my money on the Yohimbe.

Also...where are you getting the 150mg of Caffeine from? I know I used to get serious stomach issues when I took no-doze. Something about those things just tore me up inside...but I have no issues with Higher Power pure-caffeine.

badguy · 02-12-2009, 03:07 PM

WHAT THE FUK are wrong with people? (no disrespect)

You body doesn't put weight on when it feels like it, why would it lose it when it feels like?

It's never a good idea to do any form of exercise on an EMPTY stomach.

rainieravesouth · 02-12-2009, 03:31 PM

maybe you need to eat before cardio. meaning no fasted cardio

oceana · 02-12-2009, 03:40 PM

no need for fasted state cardio.

Dr. Horse · 02-12-2009, 03:49 PM

Stop all supplements, and then see you how feel.

neekz0r · 02-12-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfie.

So I'm finally giving this fitness thing a try and so far it's not going very well. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong so I'm hoping some of you experienced folks can help me out. For 4 days I've been doing morning cardio on an empty stomach because as I understand it, fasted cardio has greater fat burning effects. Well for 4 days straight after my cardio I feel like heaving pretty much the whole day and am literally having to force feed myself and hoping it stays down. During the workout my mouth and throat are VERY dry even though I drink about a liter of water pre workout. I suppose the nausea problem lies within my supps mixing together in my stomach and not getting along with each other very well. Morning supps as follows:

1500 mg carnitine
500mg choline
2 six star nitric oxide overdrive tablets

30 minutes later (before workout)

10 mg ephedrine
150 mg caffeine
200 mg kola nut powder
400 mg yohimbe (8 mg yohimbine alkaloids)

If anyone has any suggestions for food that's gentle on the stomach and that won't make me toss my cookies even though I'm feeling pukey I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

Step one, calm down. You aren't going to burn fat by cramming crap down your throat. You are really over thinking it and/or trying to rush it. It takes time.

Step two, if you feel ill, that's your body yelling at you that something is wrong. Listen to it.

Step three, stop with all the sups, If you are new to fitness, you don't really need 'em. Let your newbie gains do the work for you. Try some sups, but one at a time if you so desire. Many people achieve great results without them. Remember that sups are a business first and a health and nutrition company -- not at all.

Step four, there's lots of conflicting information out there. Use discretion. I personally don't favor fasted cardio in the morning. At worst, I eat an apple or other fruit first thing, wait 30 minutes, and then do cardio and directly following eat a meal. Most often I eat a full meal, wait, then do cardio.

Djin · 02-12-2009, 04:52 PM

Lets just say you look great. Unless there's something we're missing, what weight do you need to lose?

Second, that is a lot of stimulants to take while on an empty stomach. Perhaps you should try taking a little food (banana) or something before you take that MUCH supplements.

I agree with Mr. Horse, try for a couple days with no stimulants and see what happens, then if you want, slowly introduce them and try to figure out which one's causing you to go bonkers.

The excess amount of Yohimbe has been known to make people trip (like on LSD). There's a lot of reasons WHY I DON'T touch that ****. A buddy of mine was taking Yohimbe and was tripping.

Just be careful with those stimulants. And you top it off with ephedrine. How's your heart rate? 180+?

reefpicker · 02-12-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfie.

So I'm finally giving this fitness thing a try and so far it's not going very well. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong so I'm hoping some of you experienced folks can help me out. For 4 days I've been doing morning cardio on an empty stomach because as I understand it, fasted cardio has greater fat burning effects. Well for 4 days straight after my cardio I feel like heaving pretty much the whole day and am literally having to force feed myself and hoping it stays down. During the workout my mouth and throat are VERY dry even though I drink about a liter of water pre workout. I suppose the nausea problem lies within my supps mixing together in my stomach and not getting along with each other very well. Morning supps as follows:

1500 mg carnitine
500mg choline
2 six star nitric oxide overdrive tablets

30 minutes later (before workout)

10 mg ephedrine
150 mg caffeine
200 mg kola nut powder
400 mg yohimbe (8 mg yohimbine alkaloids)

If anyone has any suggestions for food that's gentle on the stomach and that won't make me toss my cookies even though I'm feeling pukey I'd really appreciate it. Thank you.

If you eat the same stuff on a full stomach, does it make you feel pukey too?

IDK About that ECY stack, sounds awful.

Why do you feel the need to "preserve" muscle? If you are afraid of cardio's catabolic effect, why don't you counter it by eating before cardio instead of using unproven methods (ie. NO)????

Also the dryness could be due to the stimulants. Caffeine has specific diuretic effects. Plus anything that makes you feel all jittery, usually also has an effect on blood pressure, which in turn increases urine output, and it turn makes you dehydrated. So you are getting a recipe for disaster there. Not the healthiest way to exercise, if you ask me.

Deborah_Lyn · 02-12-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Horse

Stop all supplements, and then see you how feel.

This. You don't need all those supplements.

Your height & body weight ratio seem fine. How much bf% do you want to lose?

I did fasted cardio from august to jan. and never had an upset stomach ( lost 42 pounds during that time), but I took only water in before cardio, waited 30 minutes or so after and then ate and took my fish oil & vitamins. I took lipo 6 and max cla for a while, but decided to wait until I drop another 40 pounds and I'm closer to my end goal. I just don't see the benefit of stomach acid after empty tummy all night and then adding water with a bunch of pills. Wait to take them for after when you are ready to eat. If anything , fasted cardio meant I was up at 4:30 am and not eating until 7-7:30 am. My stomach was never upset and I used to live off rolaids

try the cardio w/o anything but water and good luck!

Elfie. · 02-12-2009, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave P

I'm not going to go into the technical aspects of it but I will say that every time I've ever tried doing EC + Y I end up sitting on the couch for an hour or two with such intense jitteriness/heart pounding that I can't even think of going to the gym to workout.

Yohimbine is just a "dirty" feeling supplement in general. Most users report feeling like **** when using it and when combined with E/C it goes through the roof.

Ephedrine = 1

Caffeine = 1

E + C = 2

E + C + Y = 50

Something about that Y just makes **** go crazy....so yea if I had to single out one thing that was making you feel like **** I'd put my money on the Yohimbe.

Also...where are you getting the 150mg of Caffeine from? I know I used to get serious stomach issues when I took no-doze. Something about those things just tore me up inside...but I have no issues with Higher Power pure-caffeine.

I think the ephedrine is the problem more so than the yohimbe. I've taken yohimbe in the past with green tea and CLA and had no problems then. I'm probably going to switch back to that.

I get the 150 mg from Prolab (it's actually 200 mgs but I cut a little piece off so I estimate it's about 150).

Quote:

Originally Posted by neekz0r

Step one, calm down. You aren't going to burn fat by cramming crap down your throat. You are really over thinking it and/or trying to rush it. It takes time.

Step two, if you feel ill, that's your body yelling at you that something is wrong. Listen to it.

Step three, stop with all the sups, If you are new to fitness, you don't really need 'em. Let your newbie gains do the work for you. Try some sups, but one at a time if you so desire. Many people achieve great results without them. Remember that sups are a business first and a health and nutrition company -- not at all.

Step four, there's lots of conflicting information out there. Use discretion. I personally don't favor fasted cardio in the morning. At worst, I eat an apple or other fruit first thing, wait 30 minutes, and then do cardio and directly following eat a meal. Most often I eat a full meal, wait, then do cardio.

Thanks. I'll limit morning supps to NO with 2 stims later on. I'll try eating an orange or an apple first next time and see how it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djin

Lets just say you look great. Unless there's something we're missing, what weight do you need to lose?

Second, that is a lot of stimulants to take while on an empty stomach. Perhaps you should try taking a little food (banana) or something before you take that MUCH supplements.

I agree with Mr. Horse, try for a couple days with no stimulants and see what happens, then if you want, slowly introduce them and try to figure out which one's causing you to go bonkers.

The excess amount of Yohimbe has been known to make people trip (like on LSD). There's a lot of reasons WHY I DON'T touch that ****. A buddy of mine was taking Yohimbe and was tripping.

Just be careful with those stimulants. And you top it off with ephedrine. How's your heart rate? 180+?

lol well shucks. I'm not 128 anymore (now 131). I can hear you say "oooo 3 whole pounds" but it's 3 pounds of goop and I don't like it. According to my tanita scale my BF is 23% and I'd like it to be around 17%.

As for the one that's causing the trouble I'm 99.9% sure it's the ephedrine+kola nut. Hmm. I'm seeing what a psyhco combination I had going for the past 4 days.

My heart rate on that stuff is probably that of a humming bird on crack...with a dash of ephedrine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefpicker

If you eat the same stuff on a full stomach, does it make you feel pukey too?

IDK About that ECY stack, sounds awful.

Why do you feel the need to "preserve" muscle? If you are afraid of cardio's catabolic effect, why don't you counter it by eating before cardio instead of using unproven methods (ie. NO)????

Also the dryness could be due to the stimulants. Caffeine has specific diuretic effects. Plus anything that makes you feel all jittery, usually also has an effect on blood pressure, which in turn increases urine output, and it turn makes you dehydrated. So you are getting a recipe for disaster there. Not the healthiest way to exercise, if you ask me.

I doubt I would feel half as pukey if I took my supps on a full stomach but I've never tried.

I feel the need to preserve the precious little upper body muscle I have as much as possible. By doing fasted cardio and taking my crack monkey supps I feel like my body will be much more likely to burn fat as opposed to muscle...but I could be wrong...and probably am.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deborah_Lyn

This. You don't need all those supplements.

Your height & body weight ratio seem fine. How much bf% do you want to lose?

I did fasted cardio from august to jan. and never had an upset stomach ( lost 42 pounds during that time), but I took only water in before cardio, waited 30 minutes or so after and then ate and took my fish oil & vitamins. I took lipo 6 and max cla for a while, but decided to wait until I drop another 40 pounds and I'm closer to my end goal. I just don't see the benefit of stomach acid after empty tummy all night and then adding water with a bunch of pills. Wait to take them for after when you are ready to eat. If anything , fasted cardio meant I was up at 4:30 am and not eating until 7-7:30 am. My stomach was never upset and I used to live off rolaids

try the cardio w/o anything but water and good luck!

I'd like to lose about 6% BF. I'll try semi-fasted cardio and limit my supps and see how that works out.

Thank you for your help everyone.

Djin · 02-13-2009, 06:21 AM

Best advice is just remove the ephredra and slow down. If this doesn't help, remove another thing.

Kola nut eh? (Looking that up, something new to read) Jeez, it's even another form of caffeine. I'll admit that I take 400mg of caffeine in the morning, and 4 REDuction pills (instead of two).

Do you have troubles sleeping at night from the mass amount of stimulants? I was still reading and I found this funny; "Kola nuts are used mainly for their stimulant and euphoriant qualities."

Euphoric eh? Have you tried kava kava at night? *Hugs his kava kava* I love it.

reefpicker · 02-13-2009, 08:17 PM

OP,

The idea that cardio somehow destroys your muscle is a bit (if not greatly) exaggerated. You will do fine if you let your body "knows" it needs that muscle by using it (resistance training). A bit of cardio won't destroy your upper body musculature.

But if you are very concerned, just eat your carbs before you exercise.... Then have a shake with protein afterwards... If that makes you feel better, not that I think it would make any difference.. Your body will preserve muscle more than fat.... Specially if you are training...

I run 2.5 miles every other day and I lift in between those days... I have been gaining strength in most exercises so...

I think IME that you are just being too paranoid :O

Ubby 86 · 02-13-2009, 08:19 PM

drink more water. u are probably dehydrated. The only reason for feeling the nasuea is due to lack of water

Dr. Horse · 02-13-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjperez86

The only reason for feeling the nasuea is due to lack of water

Is that so?

KJR246 · 02-13-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Horse

Is that so?

Lmao.

So being carsick, sea sick, having food poisoning, being really drunk....They can be cured with water?

Detroit78 · 02-13-2009, 08:39 PM

I lost tons of bf over the summer doing fasted cardio. Personally I think your taking way to many stims NO should be all you need. Keep your intensity low to medium.

Detroit78 · 02-13-2009, 08:44 PM

P.S. BTW if I'm not mistaking when I was in boot camp we did PT then went to chow

Ubby 86 · 02-13-2009, 08:46 PM

Well In Relations To Working Out And Feeling Naueated And Cotton Mouth I Would Figure It Was Due To Dehydration

Elfie. · 02-13-2009, 09:04 PM

Hey guys. I seem to have solved my problem. This morning I ate an orange before working out and adjusted supps to NO first then 400 mg yohimbe, 400 mg green tea, 150 mg caffeine and 1000 mg CLA. Had a GREAT workout, no dry mouth, nausea or extreme fatigue that I experienced before. I was even able to do an extra 13 minutes.

I have come to the conclusion that ephedrine (or kola nut but I doubt it) is the devil! (for me at least) or it was just a bad combo but I'm staying away from epherdine for now. I'll keep doing semi fasted cardio from now on. I don't think my previous problems were caused by dehydration since I drink about a liter of water before working out.

Thanks again for your input everyone.