People's views on saturated fat here?

[secund2nun]

Most of the public, which eats a sugar, starch, refined carb diet, blindly accepts the notion that saturated fats are terrible for you, nevermind the fact that the Maasai, Inuits, Tokeluans, Samburu etc eat extremely high amounts of saturated/animal fat yet have extremely low heart disease, cancer, diabetes rates. The French eat a good amount of saturated fat as well and have very low CHD rates.

Anyone here who falls for the hype against Saturated fat?

[Dave P]

Good in moderation, bad in excess....like anything else.

[determined4000]

the amount needed for hormones, muscle building is so small that any1 eating a fair amount of meat/dairy will easily meet that and exceed it
therefore focus on EFAs
EFA’s improve insulin sensitivity
�� EFA’s are required for absorption of fat soluble vitamins
�� EFA’s are essential for joint health
�� EFA’s are required for energy production
�� EFA’s are required for Oxygen transfer
�� EFA’s maintain cell membrane integrity
�� EFA’s suppress cortisol production
�� EFA’s improve skin texture (dry skin is a classic symptom of EFA deficiency)
�� EFA’s are growth promoting
�� EFA’s increase metabolic rate
�� EFA’s help burn fat

[Hydey]

Originally Posted by determined4000

the amount needed for hormones, muscle building is so small that any1 eating a fair amount of meat/dairy will easily meet that and exceed it
therefore focus on EFAs
EFA?s improve insulin sensitivity
�� EFA?s are required for absorption of fat soluble vitamins
�� EFA?s are essential for joint health
�� EFA?s are required for energy production
�� EFA?s are required for Oxygen transfer
�� EFA?s maintain cell membrane integrity
�� EFA?s suppress cortisol production
�� EFA?s improve skin texture (dry skin is a classic symptom of EFA deficiency)
�� EFA?s are growth promoting
�� EFA?s increase metabolic rate
�� EFA?s help burn fat

Agreed. Saturated fats are not necessary, because anybody following a bodybuilding diet of sorts will get the small amount they need from their meats.

[Elfie.]

Saturated fat in the form of medium chain triglycerides is actually very healthy. Virgin coconut oil is an excellent source of MCT's. Long chain fatty acid sat. fats on the other hand (mostly from animal fat)...not so great and potentially harmful in excess.

[determined4000]

Originally Posted by Elfie.

Saturated fat in the form of medium chain triglycerides is actually very healthy. Virgin coconut oil is an excellent source of MCT's. Long chain fatty acid sat. fats on the other hand (mostly from animal fat)...not so great and potentially harmful in excess.

Problem being not many people get their sat. fat from coconut oil
they just use the sat. fat is ok mantra to load up on fatty meats, egg yolks, butter, full fat dairy, etc

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by determined4000

Problem being not many people get their sat. fat from coconut oil
they just use the sat. fat is ok mantra to load up on fatty meats, egg yolks, butter, full fat dairy, etc

Butter is eaten in large quantities by many people on earth. The groups that eat large amount of butterfat, animal fat have very low heart disease, cancer etc rates.

The Inuit eat a pure meat diet, most of which comes from animals with really high amounts of blubber. Their arteries are empty.

Cancer and heart disease was unheard of until the 1900s. Before that, Americans ate really high amounts of animal fat, butter etc.

The difference is that the government started advocating a high carb diet in the 1900s, so people loaded up on refined carbs and sugar. This is the time that diabetes, cancer, and heart disease rates sky rocketed.

In fact, saturated fats from butter and meat have been the staple of diets for thousands and thousands of years. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes rates skyrocketed in the 20th century, it is a new thing, not something that has harmed people for thousands of years.

This is what I am trying to say:

"Our ancestors lived on a diet rich in grease, lard, and butter. Those were the only oils they ever used. It wasn't until the 20th century that vegetable oils became widely available. Use of oils rich in saturated fat have declined over time while vegetable oils have skyrocketed. Along with the greater use of vegetable oil and the decreased use of saturated fat has come a plague of degenerative diseases that the world has never known before. To blame cholesterol and saturated fat for the heart disease, cancer, and other degenerative diseases does not fit the facts and is inconsistent with the historical record. "

[Blindead]

marine fat is not the same thing as land animal fat.

and I have enough history credits on my plate right now to not give half a **** about educating other people on it.

[determined4000]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

Butter is eaten in large quantities by many people on earth. The groups that eat large amount of butterfat, animal fat have very low heart disease, cancer etc rates.

The Inuit eat a pure meat diet, most of which comes from animals with really high amounts of blubber. Their arteries are empty.

Cancer and heart disease was unheard of until the 1900s. Before that, Americans ate really high amounts of animal fat, butter etc.

The difference is that the government started advocating a high carb diet in the 1900s, so people loaded up on refined carbs and sugar. This is the time that diabetes, cancer, and heart disease rates sky rocketed.

In fact, saturated fats from butter and meat have been the staple of diets for thousands and thousands of years. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes rates skyrocketed in the 20th century, it is a new thing, not something that has harmed people for thousands of years.

This is what I am trying to say:

"Our ancestors lived on a diet rich in grease, lard, and butter. Those were the only oils they ever used. It wasn't until the 20th century that vegetable oils became widely available. Use of oils rich in saturated fat have declined over time while vegetable oils have skyrocketed. Along with the greater use of vegetable oil and the decreased use of saturated fat has come a plague of degenerative diseases that the world has never known before. To blame cholesterol and saturated fat for the heart disease, cancer, and other degenerative diseases does not fit the facts and is inconsistent with the historical record. "

On the inuit- check out the rest of their diet
totally different than americans and bodybuilders
0 carbs, refined foods, dairy

[Wowzer]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

Butter is eaten in large quantities by many people on earth. The groups that eat large amount of butterfat, animal fat have very low heart disease, cancer etc rates.

The Inuit eat a pure meat diet, most of which comes from animals with really high amounts of blubber. Their arteries are empty.

Cancer and heart disease was unheard of until the 1900s. Before that, Americans ate really high amounts of animal fat, butter etc.

The difference is that the government started advocating a high carb diet in the 1900s, so people loaded up on refined carbs and sugar. This is the time that diabetes, cancer, and heart disease rates sky rocketed.

In fact, saturated fats from butter and meat have been the staple of diets for thousands and thousands of years. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes rates skyrocketed in the 20th century, it is a new thing, not something that has harmed people for thousands of years.

I think you may be exaggerating here and not taking into account all aspects.
People live longer now than before the 1900's allowing lifestyle disease to appear.

This is what I am trying to say:

"Our ancestors lived on a diet rich in grease, lard, and butter. Those were the only oils they ever used. It wasn't until the 20th century that vegetable oils became widely available. Use of oils rich in saturated fat have declined over time while vegetable oils have skyrocketed. Along with the greater use of vegetable oil and the decreased use of saturated fat has come a plague of degenerative diseases that the world has never known before. To blame cholesterol and saturated fat for the heart disease, cancer, and other degenerative diseases does not fit the facts and is inconsistent with the historical record. "

Wow. Just so much misinformation here.

[determined4000]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

Butter is eaten in large quantities by many people on earth. The groups that eat large amount of butterfat, animal fat have very low heart disease, cancer etc rates.

The Inuit eat a pure meat diet, most of which comes from animals with really high amounts of blubber. Their arteries are empty.

Cancer and heart disease was unheard of until the 1900s. Before that, Americans ate really high amounts of animal fat, butter etc.

The difference is that the government started advocating a high carb diet in the 1900s, so people loaded up on refined carbs and sugar. This is the time that diabetes, cancer, and heart disease rates sky rocketed.

In fact, saturated fats from butter and meat have been the staple of diets for thousands and thousands of years. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes rates skyrocketed in the 20th century, it is a new thing, not something that has harmed people for thousands of years.

This is what I am trying to say:

"Our ancestors lived on a diet rich in grease, lard, and butter. Those were the only oils they ever used. It wasn't until the 20th century that vegetable oils became widely available. Use of oils rich in saturated fat have declined over time while vegetable oils have skyrocketed. Along with the greater use of vegetable oil and the decreased use of saturated fat has come a plague of degenerative diseases that the world has never known before. To blame cholesterol and saturated fat for the heart disease, cancer, and other degenerative diseases does not fit the facts and is inconsistent with the historical record. "

false

Originally Posted by Seamless

marine fat is not the same thing as land animal fat.

and I have enough history credits on my plate right now to not give half a **** about educating other people on it.

true
Scientists studying the Inuit in the 1970s found that as a group, they
suffered much less than their European counterparts from certain
diseases, such as coronary heart disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and
diabetes mellitus. Yet their diet was very high in fat from eating
foods like whale, seal, and salmon. Discover Magazine called this the
"Inuit Paradox."

The solution to the paradox may lie in the fact that not all fat is
created equal. "[The Inuit] ate a lot of marine animals, like walruses
and seals, whales and so forth, and the blubber of these animals is a
very high source of monounsaturated fat,"says Cordain. "So if you
contrast the Inuit diet to the Western diet, it actually turns out to
be lower in saturated fat?very high in fat, but high in healthful fat,
monounsaturates and polyunsaturates, high in a specific type of
polyunsaturates called omega-3 fatty acids that come from the marine
food chain."
http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/...-Inuit-paradox
lol at OP

[determined4000]

What?
No response second2nun?

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by determined4000

What?
No response second2nun?

I was studying. So you say marine animals have different types of fat..

Ok so now tell my why the countless other types of people/tribes etc that eat LAND animals (buffalo, cow, etc) have extremely low heart disease, cancer, diabetes rates? Native Americans are a good domestic example. They ate a lot of buffalo and other high saturated fat land animals yet they were in amazing health. Their arteries were empty as well.

It is not just the Inuits.

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by determined4000

On the inuit- check out the rest of their diet
totally different than americans and bodybuilders
0 carbs, refined foods, dairy

Well yes that is the thing, they have 0 refined carbs/sugar. I agree that refined carbs are terrible.

Other people like the Masai tribe eat large amounts of butter fat, they also eat cow and they are very healthy.

It is not just the Inuits.

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by Wowzer

Wow. Just so much misinformation here.

All of it is true.

What particular statements do you reject? Do you deny the statement that heart disease and cancer were rarely heard of before the 20th century and the rise of the high carb diets?

[determined4000]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

I was studying. So you say marine animals have different types of fat..

Ok so now tell my why the countless other types of people/tribes etc that eat LAND animals (buffalo, cow, etc) have extremely low heart disease, cancer, diabetes rates?

It is not just the Inuits.

Wild-animal fats are different from both farm-animal fats and processed fats, says Dewailly. Farm animals, cooped up and stuffed with agricultural grains (carbohydrates) typically have lots of solid, highly saturated fat.

Wild animals that range freely and eat what nature intended, says Dewailly, have fat that is far more healthful. Less of their fat is saturated, and more of it is in the monounsaturated form (like olive oil). What?s more, cold-water fishes and sea mammals are particularly rich in polyunsaturated fats called n-3 fatty acids or omega-3 fatty acids. These fats appear to benefit the heart and vascular system. But the polyunsaturated fats in most Americans? diets are the omega-6 fatty acids supplied by vegetable oils. By contrast, whale blubber consists of 70 percent monounsaturated fat and close to 30 percent omega-3s, says Dewailly.

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by determined4000

Wild-animal fats are different from both farm-animal fats and processed fats, says Dewailly. Farm animals, cooped up and stuffed with agricultural grains (carbohydrates) typically have lots of solid, highly saturated fat.

Wild animals that range freely and eat what nature intended, says Dewailly, have fat that is far more healthful. Less of their fat is saturated, and more of it is in the monounsaturated form (like olive oil). What?s more, cold-water fishes and sea mammals are particularly rich in polyunsaturated fats called n-3 fatty acids or omega-3 fatty acids. These fats appear to benefit the heart and vascular system. But the polyunsaturated fats in most Americans? diets are the omega-6 fatty acids supplied by vegetable oils. By contrast, whale blubber consists of 70 percent monounsaturated fat and close to 30 percent omega-3s, says Dewailly.

Wild animals have really high saturated fat rates as well. Even if it is slightly less, wild animals are still extremely high in saturated fat, especially the organs which many people eat.

And when you eat a diet based on wild land animals, you still will eat really high levels of saturated fat.

http://www.westonaprice.org/traditio...americans.html

Read that article. People like the native americans ate extremely high amounts of saturated fats from land animals. No one can deny that.

Yet they, and all the other hunter gathers in history of earth, did not suffer from cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc.

[determined4000]

agree to disagree
eat it if you want
either way you don't "need" large amounts so why risk it

[Blindead]

gass fed > domesticated.

ps: when you're barely getting enough sustenance and burn fat as fuel, it doesn't have time to clog up your arteries.

[Wowzer]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

All of it is true.

What particular statements do you reject? Do you deny the statement that heart disease and cancer were rarely heard of before the 20th century and the rise of the high carb diets?

I reject your assumption that a reduction in saturated fat (and consequent rise in carbs consumption) is the cause of all these disease. You conveniently leave out as many confounding factors as I have hairs on my head (and no I'm not bald).

And I wouldn't rely on Weston A Price as a credible source of information.

[Nagalfar]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

I was studying. So you say marine animals have different types of fat..

Ok so now tell my why the countless other types of people/tribes etc that eat LAND animals (buffalo, cow, etc) have extremely low heart disease, cancer, diabetes rates? Native Americans are a good domestic example. They ate a lot of buffalo and other high saturated fat land animals yet they were in amazing health. Their arteries were empty as well.

It is not just the Inuits.

Because the only way they could store meat was to jerk it, and to do that you need to remove all the fat you can otherwise it would go rancid.. fresh meat was no where near as common as jerky back then.. your right when you say they ate meat all the time, but it was usually in the form of jerky.

.

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by determined4000

agree to disagree
eat it if you want
either way you don't "need" large amounts so why risk it

Up until 4 months ago, I used to fear saturated fats and laugh at diets high in saturated fats. I thought it was suicide.

But it is hard to deny the history of amazing health associated with the hunter gatherer diets. Since switching I have never felt better and my HDL level has increased while my LDL level has decreased.

Well I don't view it as a risk, I view high refined carb diets as a risk.

[secund2nun]

Originally Posted by Wowzer

I reject your assumption that a reduction in saturated fat (and consequent rise in carbs consumption) is the cause of all these disease. You conveniently leave out as many confounding factors as I have hairs on my head (and no I'm not bald).

Well I am talking about the facts regarding the time frame.

It was a fact that:

1. Before the 20th centuries a large amount of people had animal/butter fat based diets.

2. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease was almost unheard of before the 20th century.

3. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease rates sky rocketed at the same time diets shifted to high carbs, low animal fat.

[Wowzer]

Originally Posted by secund2nun

1. Before the 20th centuries a large amount of people had animal/butter fat based diets.

Was it a large portion of their diet? Do you think that this would be the ONLY thing that would have affected heart disease and cancer rates?

Originally Posted by secund2nun

2. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease was almost unheard of before the 20th century.

This could be due to several reasons:
1) Under reporting of cancer and heart disease as medical conditions. The details of heart disease and cancer have only really come to light during the 20th century, before that death due to these disease may have been unreported. Now we are better at diagnosing and reporting death due to heart disease and cancer which would increase the stats. Due to religious beliefs many people did not allow autopsies, which would have hidden large numbers of death by cancer and heart disease.

2) People were very much more physically active prior to the industrial revolution and modern technology. Physical activity has been shown in huge numbers of studies to be cardio-protective.

3) Did people live long enough to develop these diseases? Life expectancy at the end of the 1800's was around 37 years old. Hardly old enough to develop significant heart disease or cancer. We now can expect to live to 75 years old. Plenty of time for lifestyle disease to develop, and with modern medicine they can be diagnosed.

4) Overweight and obesity. Uncommon in the 1800's. Now very common place. Possible connection? I think so. (And don't tell me overweight and obesity is caused by carb intake, because it isn't).

Originally Posted by secund2nun

3. Cancer, diabetes, heart disease rates sky rocketed at the same time diets shifted to high carbs, low animal fat.

I'd really love to see your evidence that so perfectly correlates between cancer, diabetes, heart disease and carb intake.
All these things could also be explained by the ever increasing waist sizes of the western population.