mentzers heavy duty training

[ramboris]

Mike Mentzer took the bodybuilding concepts developed by Arthur Jones and attempted to perfect them. Through years of study, observation, knowledge of stress physiology and the most up-to-date scientific information available, and careful use of his reasoning abilities, Mentzer tried to devise and successfully implement a theory of bodybuilding. Mentzer's theories are intended to help a person achieve their full genetic potential within the shortest amount of time.

Mike Mentzer Training Secrets

In his book "Heavy Duty" he detailed the principles of high intensity weight training. Weight training, he insisted, had to be brief, infrequent, and intense, in order to attain the best results in the shortest amount of time.

Mentzer is an advocate of pre-exhaustion weight training. For example, leg extensions are done before squats, side delt raises before shoulder presses, flyes before bench presses, and stiff-arm pulldowns before standard lat pulldowns. Mentzer was also famous for going "beyond failure" with forced reps, negative reps, static holds, and forced negatives. In general, one only used 1-2 sets per movement, with no more than three movements per muscle group.

Mentzer and advocates of "high intensity" training believed that one must train very hard, using the heaviest weight one can manage in good form and without injury. In general, high intensity trainers avoid the use of Olympic lifts, Olympic lift derivatives, explosive or ballistic lifts of any kind, and plyometric drills.

In general, high intensity advocates believe the opinion of Jones, that while strength can be increased by 400% in an average individual, recovery capacity can only be increased by 50%. Therefore, the stronger one becomes, counterintuitively, the less one must train.

Mike Mentzer Workout

Below is a sample bodybuilding routine inspired by Mentzer principles:



Day 1 Chest and Back
DB flyes supersetted with flat or incline DB press
DB pullovers supersetted with reverse grip barbell rows
Deadlifts

Day 5 Legs
Leg Extensions supersetted with Squats
Calf raises

Day 9 Delts and Arms
DB side raises
DB rear delt laterals
Barbell Curls
Lying French Press supersetted with Dips

Day 13 Legs
Same exercises as Day 5, Legs

Day 17
Repeat cycle, beginning with Day 1, Chest and Back


note: stick to a rep range of 6-12 for all exercises except for legs, and abs which should be trained with higher reps 15-30. you can also use forced reps, negatives and other techniques to make a set even more intense.






Mike Mentzer's Heavy Duty Training Advanced Secrets

While many people know the basics of Heavy Duty training, the advanced techniques are known by only a few. The advanced and super advanced techniques were fully researched and tested by Mike in the late 70's, but following the infamous 1980 Mr.Olympia, Mike retired from competition. After that he worked as a personal trainer and concentrated on what works best for beginners and intermediates. And so Heavy Duty for advanced and super advanced trainees became all but lost, even though Mike made the best gains of his life using these techniques.

Climbing The Ladder Of Intensity

Mike knew that as a bodybuilder grew bigger and stronger, he would eventually require an even more intense training stress if he hopes to continue progressing. If the stress is not more intense he will stagnate and stay at the same level of size and strength.

Beginners

For beginners starting a weight training program is a huge leap in intensity from not training, and this is why they make such rapid gains at first. To keep progressing they can simply keep increasing the weights and decreasing the rest periods between sets. When they stop making gains this way they are ready for the next level of intensity.

Intermediates

At this stage a more intense stress is required, this is be done by using Pre-Exhaustion sets, for example a set of Leg Extensions to failure followed by a set of Leg Press (or Squats) to failure. Also forced reps and negatives to go beyond the point of positive failure can be occasionally used. These techniques will carry someone into the advanced level, Mike reached this point and using these techniques he was unable to get bigger or stronger, this forced him to do further research into the highest levels of intensity.

Advanced

At this level Mike found that he was so strong and his willingness to work at maximum effort was so high that each rep of a set was so intense that oxygen debt and lactic acid build up was practically immediate and severe enough that he was forced to stop due to cardiovascular limitation rather then because he reached a point of actual muscular failure. He looked for a way that he could do even more intense reps while at the same time slowing the build up of lactic acid and the onset of oxygen debt in his muscles.

The way he did this was to do his own version of Rest Pause training, he used a weight that would allow him to do one all out maximum rep, then rested for 10 seconds, this would give enough time for his muscle to clear out waste products and bring new fuel and oxygen so he could do another all out rep. After the second rep and another 10 seconds rest he would have his training partner help him do another all out rep, or he would reduce the weight by 20%. He would then rest 15 seconds and do his last all out rep. This was considered one set, with each and every rep of the set being an all out effort. An example rest pause workout that Mike would do for his chest was Pec Deck 1 set of 4 Rest Pause reps, Incline Bench Press 1 set of 4 Rest Pause reps and Dips (Negative only style) 1 set of 5 reps. Mike then had to ask himself what could be more intense then Rest Pause training?

Super Advanced Heavy Duty

Mikes next step up the ladder of intensity was what he called Infitonic training; he followed each maximum positive rep of a Rest Pause set with a maximum negative Rep. He had his training partner push down a little on the negative and he would fight to resist it, lowering it as slowly as possible. He then rested 15 seconds before his next maximum positive and negative rep.

The very highest level of Heavy Duty he called Omni-Contraction training, meaning all contraction. There are three ways a muscle can contract, that is lifting a weight (positive), lowering a weight (negative) and holding a weight (static).

In Omni-Contraction training Mike would make each a maximum effort. He would do his one all out maximum positive rep, followed by a maximum negative, but during the negative he would stop the weight and actually try to raise the weight again (which was impossible). He would do these static holds at three different points during the negative rep, the first was at the top, close to the fully contracted position, the second was halfway down and the third was close to the bottom position. Each position was held for a count of 3.

The Results

Mike and his brother Ray used these advanced and super advanced techniques in the summer of 1979 and it resulted in Mike gaining 14 pounds of pure muscle in 9 weeks (while losing fat and at an already advanced level of mass and strength), and winning his first pro show beating the likes of Robby Robinson, Danny Padilla and Roy Callendar. While Ray was able to improve so much he walked in and took the Mr. America crown that year.

So maybe, just maybe, if you have tried Heavy Duty and it stopped working it was because you didn't know the higher techniques on your way up the ladder of intensity. Try them for yourself and find out.


visit website below for training tips and more

http://mikementzer.com/




visit this to watch mentzers HIT dvd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqR0-ndcNwU

[NIguy]

Mentzer is over... rated, quoted and over the top. His volumes are off, his absolute failure workouts push your body too much and can actually make you lose strength. His workouts are too brief!!! he doesn't employ speed reps, only 6-8reps for bench and back ever, doesnt mix routines, exercises, set numbers (1or 2 sets, always). Has nothing to offer when you hit plateus other than more rest....

Hmm no thanks, Menzter can keep his workout, he was on steroids and no matter what he says the universal principle of weight training is!!!!! different for juicers. He was a smart guy though, and he did rubbish alot of the myths surrounding bodybuilding, such as uneccessarly long workouts, the need for ridiculous amounts of protein and he brought HIT back, yes back (Vince Gironda and Arthur Jones are two who pioneered HIT, and imo did it better), because it wasnt his concept in the first place. High intensity training does work but Menzters repackaged version is not nearly the best version of it. Menzter was robbed in the 1980 Mr.Olympia, I feel sorry for the dude because as usual Weider had his way.


Edit
'Mike and his brother Ray used these advanced and super advanced techniques in the summer of 1979 and it resulted in Mike gaining 14 pounds of pure muscle in 9 weeks (while losing fat and at an already advanced level of mass and strength), and winning his first pro show beating the likes of Robby Robinson, Danny Padilla and Roy Callendar. While Ray was able to improve so much he walked in and took the Mr. America crown that year.'

just read this section, there is an article on steroid use on T-nation for anyone interested (I recommend you look it out). There they have some guy who went on steroids for several months and recorded his progress. He added muscle even when he didnt lift for two weeks. Menzter, to his credit admitted that he would not be anything near the size he was had it not been for steroids... so take the fact that he added 14 pounds of muscle within 9 weeks with a very big pinch of salt. Bear in mind that Mike and Ray were both juiced up, like all other bbs of their era, and adding 14lbs of muscle in 9 weeks for a natural bodybuilding is pretty much impossible.

[james0566]

is kingfisher back?

[ramboris]

i agree with you that adding 14lbs of muscle in 9 weeks is impossible for a natural bodybuilder, but if you follow mikes principles you should still make steady gains without sticking points or plateaus.

[fbcoach]

Mentzer is over... rated, quoted and over the top. His volumes are off, his absolute failure workouts push your body too much and can actually make you lose strength. His workouts are too brief!!! he doesn't employ speed reps, only 6-8reps for bench and back ever, doesnt mix routines, exercises, set numbers (1or 2 sets, always). Has nothing to offer when you hit plateus other than more rest....

Hmm no thanks, Menzter can keep his workout, he was on steroids and no matter what he says the universal principle of weight training is!!!!! different for juicers. He was a smart guy though, and he did rubbish alot of the myths surrounding bodybuilding, such as uneccessarly long workouts, the need for ridiculous amounts of protein and he brought HIT back, yes back (Vince Gironda and Arthur Jones are two who pioneered HIT, and imo did it better), because it wasnt his concept in the first place. High intensity training does work but Menzters repackaged version is not nearly the best version of it. Menzter was robbed in the 1980 Mr.Olympia, I feel sorry for the dude because as usual Weider had his way.


Edit
'Mike and his brother Ray used these advanced and super advanced techniques in the summer of 1979 and it resulted in Mike gaining 14 pounds of pure muscle in 9 weeks (while losing fat and at an already advanced level of mass and strength), and winning his first pro show beating the likes of Robby Robinson, Danny Padilla and Roy Callendar. While Ray was able to improve so much he walked in and took the Mr. America crown that year.'

just read this section, there is an article on steroid use on T-nation for anyone interested (I recommend you look it out). There they have some guy who went on steroids for several months and recorded his progress. He added muscle even when he didnt lift for two weeks. Menzter, to his credit admitted that he would not be anything near the size he was had it not been for steroids... so take the fact that he added 14 pounds of muscle within 9 weeks with a very big pinch of salt. Bear in mind that Mike and Ray were both juiced up, like all other bbs of their era, and adding 14lbs of muscle in 9 weeks for a natural bodybuilding is pretty much impossible.

For such a young guy, you really posted a spot on, insightful post. Great Job!!

As NIguy posted, Mentzer's greatest contributions were getting trainees to recognize the need for recovery, and getting trainees to realize there was not a need for those 500gms of protein per day diets. As for his latest philosophy on volume and frequency, we all know he was way off. His earlier writings were actually really good. I also like how NIguy pointed out that Mentzer got the HIT idea from Arthur Jones (via Viator ), while Gironda was training HIT before any of them.

[fbcoach]

is kingfisher back?

He never left. He is M risinger. He moderates the yahoo HIT group.

[ramboris]

Mentzer's Consolidation Routine


Once you feel progress has plateued, switch from the Ideal Routine to this Consolidation Routine. Increase your recuperation periods in between workouts for maximum gains. With a workout like this you can use advanced techniques such as rest/pause, forced reps, negatives, etc... Warm-ups aren't included.

Workout A

Squats 1x12-20
Reverse grip palms up pulldowns 1x6-10

rest 5-7 days

Workout B

Deadlift 1x3-8
Dips 1x6-10

[ramboris]

Special Tip for Lagging Body Parts
by mike mentzer

For some, even one set for certain body parts may prove more than the individual can tolerate or even need. For instance, over the years, I have had training clients, who informed me at the start that they couldn't stimulate growth in their calves, whether they were training them with 12 sets three times a week or just one set once a week. They took my advice, acknowledging the possibility that even one set may be too much, then ceased training their calves entirely. These individuals reported to me on a regular basis, claiming calf increases of 3/4" to 1 1/2" in several months.

Similarly, I've had clients who gained quite well overall with their greatest circumference increase in the neck. These examples prove the reality of "indirect effect", i.e., when growth is stimulated in one muscle, growth is stimulated through the entire musculature - though to a lesser degree; and the larger the muscle being worked, the greater the degree of indirect effect.

The calf increases reported above were likely the result of the effect provided by Leg Presses, Squats and Deadlifts; with those experiencing tremendous increases in their neck being the indirect result of growth stimulation induced by Shrugs and Deadlifts.

Conclusion: If you have a lagging body part, stop training that part entirely for a few weeks, then resume training with a lesser number of sets, or, with calves and neck, stop training them entirely.

[Nick1971]

Personally I think Mentzer's physique was better than someone like Zane's, and they were similar in height, but Mentzer was a bit more muscular. In a room full of attractive women, I'd rather look like Zane. In a room full of combative MMA wannabes I'd rather look like Mentzer.

I also think Mentzer, is too often taken out of context. People will see some things he writes, regard that as gospel, and totally ignore other things he says, as if he never said it. The bottom line is that he had an overall philosophy that he espoused, not merely a set of rules and that's it. He was a believer in experimentation over instinctiveness. He believed ultimately it was up to the individual to determine what was best for them, not to be spoon-fed some guidelines and follow them rigorously. He was an advocate for heavy and intense training, not light and lengthy training.

It doesn't help that some HIT advocates see weight training as something akin to war, and they take their beliefs to levels of lunacy, but I think the overall messages of HIT are fine to apply to weight training.

Personally I don't see Mentzer as being "robbed" of an Olympia title. I do think he was deserving of it, as a few others who also did not get it. I think some like Padilla and Platz, Wheeler and Ray should have won, as well.

[m_risinger]

ive never really cared who should of won the 80 olympia, what they look like when they are in good health is more important

[GuyJin]

ive never really cared who should of won the 80 olympia, what they look like when they are in good health is more important

^^-----------------------------------------------------------------

That's about the smartest thing you've ever said, Fishy.

With regards to Mentzer's writings, he often contradicted himself in his earlier and later periods, mainly with the volume/frequency arguments. The advice on laying off lagging bodyparts has worked for a few, but for a lot, no. My calves suck, and laying off doing them for two weeks or so didn't help them gain any size, no matter how heavy I was squatting and deadlifting. In fact, they shrunk; so much for the indirect effect.

As for the "intensity" trip, that's been done to death in other threads; there IS more than one way to gain size and strength, and going all out all the time does not work for most, no matter who they are, even if they're juicing.

I'd have to agree with fbcoach. Mentzer's main contribution to exercising was to get people to exercise less and work harder in the gym instead of loafing off. Same deal with the protein intake; 500 grams a day isn't needed, even if you're using every steroid known to man. There are always limits, and Mentzer was smart enough to realize that going that high protein-wise was simply not necessary.

If you're going to do HIT, at the very least, cycle the intensity you put into it and maybe you'll make good gains. His earlier programmes had some good ideas in them and yes, as Nick1971 mentioned, they should be used as a template and not taken as gospel. If you can manipulate them successfully, gains can be made, but like any programme, you will eventually plateau, and that's where you have to think of what to do in order to keep on improving.

[ramboris]

Heavy Duty, The Mentzer and Yates Training Sessions
by John Little


How many sets should a bodybuilder perform when the goal is to build maximum muscle mass? A quick look at the history of our sport shows that people have developed massive muscles from all sorts of training protocols. The legendary John Grimek made great gains when performing three to six sets per bodypart, Steve Reeves made his best gains performing nine sets per bodypart, Bill Pearl did up to 30 sets per bodypart, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane were 20-sets-per-bodypart men, while Lee Haney made his best gains on roughly 12 sets per bodypart. In reviewing those figures, one might conclude that performing multiple sets is the key to massive muscles, which is precisely what most bodybuilders and bodybuilding writers have concluded. That paradigm was challenged in 1992, however, when Mike Mentzer successfully tested a one-set-per-exercise protocol that led to Dorian Yates winning the Mr. Olympia title.

For many months Mentzer had theorized that one set to failure was sufficient to stimulate maximum gains in muscle mass. The bodybuilding community looked down its collective nose at Mentzer and his proposition. After all, Ellington Darden, Ph.D., had advanced that same notion (which he had learned from Nautilus pioneer Arthur Jones) in several bodybuilding books throughout the 80s, but Darden?s publications, while enjoying solid sales among Nautilus aficionados, caused nary a ripple in the waters of professional bodybuilding.

Mentzer?s proposition was somewhat different from the good doctor?s, however, for whereas Darden recommended workouts that were upward of 20 sets in length, Mentzer had refined the application to the point where his clients were performing no more than five to seven sets total in a split routine, with each workout covering two to three bodyparts and never more than one set of each exercise. Rumor had it that Yates was performing that type of workout under Mentzer?s watchful eye.

That was incredible if true, for never before in the history of bodybuilding had a superadvanced bodybuilder, let alone a top Mr. Olympia contender, trained with a mere one-set-per-exercise protocol in an attempt to gain more muscle mass. In fact, in bodybuilding circles it was equal to the resurrection of Christ - a miracle! While the more liberal bodybuilders conceded that one set to failure could be seen as a practical approach for beginners, whose bodies were not accustomed to the rigors of bodybuilding training, they were skeptical as to how it could yield meaningful results for a seasoned bodybuilder. The conservative bodybuilders, having long since closed their minds to alternative modes of training, dismissed it outright as a yarn propagated to test their gullibility.

Although I was living in Canada at the time, I had heard about the Yates-Mentzer get-together. Enough bodybuilders in Gold?s Gym, Venice, California, had actually witnessed the event, and more than a few of them had begun talking about it. Gold?s Gym being, as its moniker states, the mecca of bodybuilding, it wasn?t long before word of the Mentzer-Yates experiment began to circulate through gyms around the world (when a barbell plate is dropped in Venice, it?s heard in Cairo).

I decided to call Mentzer and inquire about the rumor. I was highly intrigued. Anytime two bodybuilding legends get together to train, it?s newsworthy, and given that the sport is highly competitive, it seldom, if ever, happened that a bodybuilding luminary would publicly submit to the training methods of another luminary. After all, it might seal off a potential avenue of revenue for one champion in the form of his training methods in favor of the other?s. Even though Yates was just a Mr. Olympia competitor at that point, the buzz already had him pegged as the man to watch. I dialed the number, and Mr. Heavy Duty picked up the phone. After some preliminary banter, I asked him about the workout he had put Dorian through and what his impressions were of the young lion. Mike related that they had met at Gold?s Gym, Venice, where Mentzer conducted his personal-training business. Yates, having been a fan of Mentzer?s during the latter?s competitive days, had approached him to talk training.

I?d noticed that Dorian had increased his sets and reps of late, Mentzer recollected, and, quite frankly, he hadn?t made any progress.

Yates evidently conceded that it was so, and the two high-intensity advocates began comparing notes on their training experiences. Mentzer relayed his opinion that Yates was training too often and then offered the following suggestion: I?ll put you through a biceps workout that will consist of only one set, but that one set will do more for your biceps than all the rest of the exercises, sets and reps you?ve done for the past year.

Yates was by no means an amateur. He had already built himself up to absolutely behemoth proportions, weighing a rock-solid 275 pounds during the off-season, and he?d just come off a second-place finish at the ?91 Mr. Olympia. I mention that to correct a misperception that Mentzer?s guidance was directly responsible for all of the muscle that layered Yates? physique, a rumor that Mentzer had denied repeatedly to me over the years.

Yates was obviously no slouch in the bodybuilding department, but he had nothing to lose by spending an hour or so with his hero. Plus, he knew that he wanted to progress more than his current training methods seemed to be allowing. He agreed that he would put his skepticism about one set to failure aside and try out Mentzer?s radical training protocol. The two men made their way to the back of Gold?s Gym, where the Nautilus Multi-Biceps machine was located.

Mentzer had Yates position himself in the machine and perform a brief warmup set to get the blood flowing into the biceps, preparing them for the assault that was to follow. Under Mentzer?s supervision, Yates launched into his set of curls with a ferocity that is seldom witnessed in a commercial gymnasium. Anticipating Yates? immense strength, Mentzer had placed the selector pin at the bottom of the machine?s weight stack to ensure that Dorian would hit failure before he got to eight reps.

Yates performed each repetition in true Heavy Duty high-intensity fashion, taking three seconds to complete the concentric, or lifting, phase, pausing for one to two seconds in the fully contracted position and then taking four seconds in the eccentric, or lowering, phase. That continued until he hit failure at around seven repetitions, at which point Mentzer assisted him in performing two forced reps, each with some added negative pressure coming from Mentzer pushing down on the weight stack. Yates? biceps were screaming and swollen almost beyond recognition, but the set wasn?t finished. Mentzer pinned an additional 25 pounds to the weight stack, lifted the arm of the machine up to the top and had Yates grab it and hold it in the fully contracted position for 15 seconds. As Mentzer called out the seconds, the weight stack began inching downward, the fibers in Yates? biceps growing more and more fatigued until, finally, they could no longer sustain the contraction.

As soon as the weight stack was lowered, Yates let out a growl and immediately began massaging his biceps. After a brief break Mentzer had Yates repeat the exercise for his other arm, and the workout was done.

Dorian called me the next day, Mentzer recalled of the historic moment, and said, ?You won?t believe this, but my arms are bigger this morning than they were yesterday!? Then it hit him again, and he said, I?ve grown from only one workout! I?ve grown from only one set! I want you to put me through a series of workouts just like that for the rest of my bodyparts so I can train this way when I go back to England!

[ramboris]

Back to the Gym

The next day Yates and Mentzer met again at Gold?s, where Mentzer explained the fundamentals of his new approach to training in greater detail. I say new approach because Mentzer had not always advocated one-set training. In fact, during his competitive days he typically performed four to five sets per bodypart which, in an era when most of the top champions were performing more than 20, was just as shocking as the one-set-to-failure theory. Over time Mentzer recognized that even two to four sets might have been overkill. He once commented to me that the one major training mistake I made was that, despite having been the arch advocate of less training, I was still overtraining; i.e., training too long and too frequently.

Mentzer had learned a lot about the science of exercise since his competitive days and had used Gold?s Gym as his laboratory to test his various hypotheses. His clients were now training but once every four to seven days for about 12 minutes per workout, and none was using more than one set per exercise or more than three exercises maximum per bodypart. He shared that information with Yates and then outlined a similar program that would allow Dorian to stimulate maximum muscle growth while giving him ample recovery time. That, Mentzer believed, would better Yates? chances of winning the ?92 Mr. Olympia contest, allowing him to come in bigger and more muscular.

I set up a program for Dorian that would have him training no more than three days per week, Mentzer said. I don?t mean a three-on/one-off type of program, which is both unnecessary and actually counterproductive, but a workout regimen that would have him in the gym only three days per week - Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I split the routine into chest, shoulders and triceps on Monday; back and biceps on Wednesday and legs by themselves on Friday. All other days were rest days.

Monday: Chest, Delts and Triceps

Mentzer started Yates by training his chest, a routine that consisted of one set of dumbbell flyes to failure followed immediately by one set of incline barbell presses to failure. That was it for Yates? chest: two sets or roughly two minutes worth of direct chest work. Then they moved on to shoulders, with Yates performing one set to failure on the Nautilus lateral raise machine followed by one set to failure on the Nautilus rear-deltoid machine. Again, it was a total of two sets lasting about one minute each.

For triceps it was equally basic and brief. “Dorian told me that he was having some problems with his elbows, said Mentzer, so I had him forgo dips, an exercise I normally recommend for triceps. Instead, I had him do one set to failure of two different exercises: the Nautilus Multi-Triceps machine followed by cable pushdowns. That was it. He was finished for the day. Yates returned to his hotel and prepared for his next workout 48 hours later.

Wednesday: Back and Biceps

The Wednesday workout saw Mentzer and Yates getting together at noon. After a brief warmup Mentzer had Yates sit in the Nautilus pullover machine, where Dorian strapped himself in and, again under Mentzer?s strict supervision, performed 15 repetitions with the entire weight stack. With no rest whatsoever Yates was rushed over to the lat pulldown machine, which had been loaded with 300 pounds in anticipation of his arrival. Yates, who was perhaps the strongest competitive bodybuilder of all time, then proceeded to startle the assembled crowd at Gold?s Gym who, prior to witnessing this Heavy Duty workout, thought they?d seen everything in the way of training by performing seven reps with the poundage. After a very brief rest, during which Yates barely had time to catch his breath, he was hustled off to the Hammer Strength row machine, where he unilaterally performed seven reps with 165 pounds.

“I remember the crowd was all around at that point, Mentzer recalled, and what they were seeing was the real thing! This was not a fellow who would disappoint his fans by curling 25-pound dumbbells while covered in baby oil and spandex. This was a Heavy Duty bodybuilder in the purest sense of the term! Dorian put forth so much effort that the 275-pound monster was shaking from his head to his toes and grunting like a bear trying to make those last reps.

It?s rumored that the whole gym stopped to watch Yates perform his next exercise: Hammer Strength machine shrugs with 800 pounds, all the weight the machine could accommodate. He would shrug that mammoth weight not once, not twice, but 14 times, with Mentzer encouraging him on each repetition.

I was telling him with each rep, ?This is for the Olympia, Dorian! This next rep is worth a million dollars to you!? Mentzer related with a laugh. This guy was highly motivated to succeed. He would have to be in order to have trained that intensely.

That one set of shrugs ended Yates? back training for the day. The workout had consisted of three exercises for his lats performed for one set each - or roughly three minutes of direct training stimulation followed by one set of shrugs. It was now time to revisit the Nautilus Multi-Biceps machine, the same exercise that had started the whole one-set series of workouts. Again, Mentzer had Yates perform one set to failure.

Dorian?s biceps were so pumped, they were cramping up, so I had him shake it off and then lift the weight up again and hold it in the fully contracted position for an additional 15 seconds before lowering slowly back to the fully extended position, Mentzer recalled. Normally, that would be all I?d have a client do for biceps, but I also put Dorian on a 90 degree preacher bench to do one set of preachers superstrict. He went to failure on that one, too, with a weight of 150 pounds. When he hit failure, I had him do three or four half reps and, to let you know how whipped his biceps were at that point, each half rep took him four seconds to complete. Needless to say, his biceps had had it for the day!

[ramboris]

Friday: Legs

The next day was a rest day, but Mentzer and Yates were back in the gym again that Friday to work Yates? legs with another Heavy Duty workout. Mentzer started him off on the Nautilus leg extension machine doing one set to failure, which came at rep number 15. With no rest and the seat cranked as far forward as it would go to ensure a greater range of motion, Yates then proceeded to blast the hell out of his thighs with another 15 reps on the Nautilus Compound Leg Press. “He was using the stack on this exercise, Mentzer related, and his quads were swollen up like balloons after he finished it.

After a very brief rest Yates walked over to the squat rack, where he shouldered a barbell and performed seven ultrastrict reps with a whopping 540 pounds. And that was after he had hit failure on both the leg extensions and the leg presses, Mentzer recollected enthusiastically, “Dorian is phenomenally strong!

The routine continued with one set to failure on two exercises - leg curls and stiff-legged deadlifts for the glutes and hamstrings and then concluded with two sets of calf raises.

Dorian was always keen to get back into the gym for his next workout, Mentzer said, and when he returned home to England, he was positive that less is better in terms of training for muscle mass. He realized that he had gotten so big with high-intensity training before, and that to get even bigger, he had to increase the intensity of his training, which, as we all know by now, can only be done by decreasing the number of sets you do in any given workout.

Mentzer then condensed his training system into two propositions:

Over the past two years I?ve trained more than 200 people, and I?ve discovered some very important things about building muscle mass. Success on this front boils down to two things: overtraining and knowing when to change routines. On the issue of overtraining, one set more than the least amount required to stimulate growth is overtraining - that is, it?s counterproductive, and the least amount required is, obviously, one set. There should never be an impasse to progress. My clients don?t progress slowly, and they don?t have stale periods. They progress from workout to workout just as Dorian Yates is doing.

Ironically, while Mentzer quite liked Dorian and obviously thought he had tremendous potential, he confided to me many years after the fact that at the time he was training him, he honestly didn?t think Yates would win the ?92 Mr. Olympia contest.

I didn?t think he had the kind of physique they were looking for, Mentzer admitted. That plus his association with me I thought would have caused some political problems. But then I hadn?t taken into account that the contest was being held in Europe, and I know how the fans are over there about real muscle.

History Is Made

The rest, as the popular saying goes, is history. Yates would use the training principles Mentzer advocated, pack on even more muscle and win the ?92 Mr. Olympia contest in a cakewalk. When word trickled back to Mentzer in the United States, he was happy and, again, surprised.

You know it?s curious because Dorian is kind of a low-key guy, Mentzer said. He never said that much about our workouts to me. Even when he left here many months ago, I talked to him until I was blue in the face, almost like I?m doing to you now, but he?s the kind of guy who doesn?t really respond much, so you don?t really know if it?s clicking. Then the next thing I hear, the guy wins the Mr. Olympia and he?s telling all the interviewers that he did take my advice and he did cut back to one set per exercise and it really did work. I was delighted. I honestly didn?t think that he would win.

Back in Gold?s Gym

Mentzer was also undeniably pleased to have his unique approach to bodybuilding training espoused by Mr. Olympia. Conversely, it seemed obvious to me that Yates was just as impressed with Mentzer?s methods, for when I went into Gold?s Gym a year after their famous get-together, he was hard at work training chest and biceps under Mentzer?s supervision. I watched the pair closely, wanting to see for myself what kind of intensity a bona fide Mr. Olympia winner was capable of generating, and, fortuitously, I happened to have my camera with me.

I noted that one set to failure was employed but with something that made me smile: partial repetitions and static holds performed at the end of Dorian?s regular sets. Yates? strength had obviously skyrocketed, as it now required no less than three spotters, including Mentzer, to assist in lifting the incredibly heavy weights he was using into the fully contracted position of the exercise for him to hold statically. Yates used not only the entire weight stack on the incline-press machine but also four additional 45-pound plates.

The protocol I observed that day had Dorian performing a very heavy set to failure and then holding the resistance in a position of full contraction. Yates? gritted his teeth and summoned all the energy he could muster to keep that weight from coming down. His forearms bulged as he gripped the handles of the machine, and his pecs looked as if they were about to explode through his sweatshirt! When the weight finally came down, Mentzer quickly reduced the poundage and lifted the movement arm of the machine so that Yates could again hold the weight in the fully contracted position. Sweat was now pouring freely down Dorian?s face, and his arms shook until he could no longer contract against the resistance, at which point he lowered the weight (rather quickly) and massaged his now swollen chest. Nice job! Mentzer said as he slapped Yates on the back. Now let?s hit the biceps!

Mentzer then proceeded to put Yates through one set for the biceps, again finishing with static holds in the fully contracted position. At the conclusion of the workout Yates? biceps were quivering but pumped at least an inch and a half and he seemed quite pleased as a result.

Mike and John, he said, beckoning to us, I want to show you something. Yates gestured for us to accompany him into the posing room at the back of Gold?s. Mentzer and I followed him, me with camera in hand to shoot the effect of the workout he?d just completed. Yates stripped off his sweats and hit several poses under the watchful eye of Mentzer, who just stood there with his arms folded over his chest, smiling. The muscle that Yates put on display in that back room that day was nothing short of mind-blowing.

There?s the ?93 Mr. Olympia right there! Mike said prophetically. It was obvious to all three of us that if Dorian was making that type of progress, he could go on winning the Mr. Olympia title for as long as he wanted.

Make no mistake, it was Yates who did the work and Yates who deserved all the credit for his Mr. Olympia victories. After all, when he returned to England, which is where his real contest preparations took place, he was his own trainer. It must also be pointed out, however, that it was Mentzer?s approach that Yates employed to stimulate his muscles into such incredible growth. He might well have won the Mr. Olympia had he trained without Mike?s Heavy Duty method. All we know is that he chose to do otherwise, and the results of his decision are now a matter of record.

I should mention that Mentzer further refined and evolved the Heavy Duty workout protocol that he prescribed for Yates, reducing the sets and spacing the workouts further apart. In ?92, however, this program worked like a charm for the majority of those Mike trained on it. Even so, it should not be taken as representing his final word on Heavy Duty high-intensity training protocol.

[N@tural1]

ramboris

What HIT defines as "intensity" is nothing more than a fatigued based termination of a set.

HIT advocates have a bit of a reputation here as only being capable of copy and pastes.

Have a read of this:

Is Momentary muscular failure - THE stimulus?

And if you disagree, please say so in your own words.

[Nick1971]

On the bit about Dorian Yates, ultimately he got his size, etc from HIT and anabolics, and Mentzer's direct training in a handful of sessions had practically nothing to do with Yates' success. But overall the influence of Arthur Jones, Mentzer did have an influence overall on Yates. Yates did to HIT but he used more sets and he also did warmup sets. It wasn't too far off the mark from higher volume programs, that ultimately had more working sets.

As others have also said, Mentzer has contradicted himself from time to time, but by no means is that a malady unique to him. The fact is a lot of people changed what they did and said over the decades, and that's just systemic of the very nature of bodybuilding as a science and as a culture. The key thing to remember is the core philosophies taught - not every quote, routine variation, etc. Don't get worked up over the nuances. Use your head.

[ramboris]

Mentzer one set to failure training

Is One Set Enough?


Q: Mike Mentzer believed in using one set to failure. I can see how that might work for smaller muscle groups like biceps, but how can you stimulate maximum growth in bigger muscle groups like the chest with only one set?

A: The size of the muscle group you?re training doesn?t change the fact that muscle fibers are recruited and stimulated sequentially?from slow twitch to fast twitch?by one set taken to a point of momentary muscular failure. The scientific literature supports the concept of one set taken to failure as at least the equal of multiset work, which indicates that doing any more sets would be a waste of time and recovery resources. That will delay the growth your workout may have stimulated.


Mike looked carefully at that dynamic:

?If you were to launch an investigation aimed at discovering how many sets were required to achieve optimal results, where would you start? If you started at 20 sets and that didn?t work, where would you go? Down to 19 sets or up to 21? The logical place to launch your investigation is with the least number possible, namely one set. You can?t do any fewer sets. If one doesn?t work, then you try two. I can tell you unequivocally, though, that one set per exercise is all you need to achieve optimal results.?

Most bodybuilders regard working out as an endurance contest, which it is not. Mike often said that the idea is not to go into the gym to see how many sets you can do or how long you can mindlessly endure. Your purpose is to go in as an informed, intelligent, rational human being and perform only the amount of exercise required to stimulate muscular growth. Note the distinction. As it turns out, the precise amount of exercise required to stimulate growth isn?t nearly as much as people have been led to believe or would like to believe. According to Mike:

?One of the central issues in my book Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body is that the mistake over all these decades has been that more is better and less is better. Those ideas are both wrong, and they both lead to training problems and a lack of satisfactory progress.

?The idea is not more is better or less is better but that precise is best. Precision is the key. Exactly how many sets per workout and how often? It?s similar to what happens when you take a medication. Once you discover what medication is required, the next logical step is to discover how much?the dosage. How much of the drug should you take and how often? In fact, I make the point again in Heavy Duty II that exercise science should flow from the principles of medical science.

?In bodybuilding as in medicine we?re looking to effect the desired physical result, in our case not by taking a drug but by imposing the appropriate training stimulus: high intensity. Once we know that, we can determine volume and frequency.?

The majority of volume bodybuilders perform an arbitrary number of sets, with the exercise science establishment advocating up to 60 sets a day, six or seven days a week. That?s gross overtraining, and for the bodybuilder who?s not genetically gifted or taking steroids, it?s useless.

What Was Mike Mentzer Like?

Q: You knew Mike Mentzer personally for some 20 years. That must have been amazing. I discovered Mike?s writings six months ago when I purchased The Wisdom of Mike Mentzer and have since purchased High Intensity Training the Mike Mentzer Way, Heavy Duty II: Mind and Body and anything else I can get my hands on. He was such an intelligent man, and I love the philosophy component he brought to bodybuilding. Since you knew him personally, what was he like?was he serious all the time?

A: Mike Mentzer was the most fascinating and stimulating friend I?ve ever had and probably ever will. There was always something ?new? going on?a new idea, a new application, new knowledge. I vividly recall speaking with him just prior to my leaving for Helsinki, Finland, to cover the ?92 Mr. Olympia contest and asking him a question about the value of partial repetitions for a book I was doing. He gave me one of the most fascinating insights into the issue of recovery ability as it relates to training volume and frequency. It broke new ground in bodybuilding, and I was so elated that I played the recording of the interview no less than 10 times. It was several months before the release of his revised Heavy Duty, so it was exciting.

[ramboris]

part 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Mike?s being serious all the time?hardly! He was one of the funniest people I?d met, something I?ve noticed about most people who are very intelligent. Will Durant once remarked that humor is aligned with knowledge, as both are born from a wide or deep view of life. Mike was someone with whom I could speak about any topic?from bodybuilding training to music to art to philosophy to politics to writing to business to fashion. A bit of trivia here-?Mike was one of the few bodybuilders ever to be profiled by GQ magazine. In one of our last conversations I told him that Friedrich Nietzsche, whom Mike had read extensively in the 1970s, had written music for piano that had recently been produced. He was so excited about that and couldn?t wait for me to send him the CDs so he could gauge Nietzsche?s ?sense of life.?

Once at a small coffee shop in Venice, California, we got into a discussion of how tradition-bound so many people in bodybuilding are. Mike opined that there was a strong mystical element that had been passed down in bodybuilding, where bodybuilders were supposed to go with their ?feelings? or ?instincts.? The then editor-in-chief of Muscle & Fitness had written an editorial about how it was best to ?go with your gut? when training. ?How does he know how to interpret a feeling in his gut?? I said. ?For all he knows he might be experiencing gas?not a valid training insight.? Mike did a spit-take with his coffee and laughed so loud and so hard that I didn?t think he would catch his breath!

Mike was, above all, a benevolent soul. He was always kind and never mean-spirited, giving freely of his time to anyone who wanted to speak with him. Unlike many people in this industry, Mike left you with something more than you had before the conversation?I could go on and on. Mike Mentzer was a confidante, an ally, an adviser, a teacher, someone who made me laugh and inspired me to want to learn more about life. I miss his company very much.

Why Keep a Progress Chart?

Q: I?ve read that Mike Mentzer was a big advocate of keeping a log book or progress chart. It seems a huge inconvenience to have to carry one of those things around the gym every time I work out. I see lots of big bodybuilders at the gym I train at who don?t keep track of any of their weights, sets or reps, and they seem to be making out okay. Is a progress chart really that necessary?

A: Mike made the point that becoming a massively developed bodybuilder takes a number of years in most cases. He also believed that the time would be reduced dramatically if trainees kept a journal from day one of training. Here?s why:


?In very few arenas of human endeavor will you find anyone who takes the most direct route from objective A to objective B at the outset. Learning and moving ahead are accomplished by trial and error. Usually we begin by making a trial, miss the mark, note the error and make the proper adjustments and then proceed to our target or goal. I?ve come to view my own training as something of a journey, whose destination is the fulfillment of my physical potential. As it is with any long journey along an uncharted path, I am bound to take the inevitable detour. It is vital that if I am ever going to reach my destination, I must avoid hitting the same blind alley, the same detours twice; otherwise I will end up like a rat caught forever in a maze, frantically seeking the one proper path that will lead me to success. Keeping a training journal is like making a map of your journey. You must make a record of every proper turn as well as every wrong one. The road to building a great physique is just too long to remember all the mistakes.?

Mike began keeping a training log in 1978 just as he was beginning preparation for the USA vs. World challenge match in Los Angeles. That discipline continued through another six competitions and extended to his workouts and diets in the off-season. According to Mike:

?My journal has evolved somewhat since those first recorded observations back in June ?78. At first my journal served merely as a record of my diet and my workouts while preparing for a contest. With each succeeding contest, however, I grew increasingly aware of how my journal would serve me in the future for bigger contests. As time went on, I began keeping a record of my bodyweight before each workout, my other physical activities, as well as detailed analyses after each contest. Recently I?ve begun to keep charts that compare my fluctuating bodyweight with calorie intake and activity level so that when preparing for a contest in the future, I will know exactly what I have to eat and how active I must be each day to reach a certain condition or peak in an allotted period of time. In addition, I?ve begun recording mental and emotional patterns that attend contest training. While I haven?t had the time to analyze this particular aspect fully, I have identified patterns that lead to motivation, emotional ups and downs, as well as progress. I now am beginning to understand much better my limits as well as my strengths. For instance, in the beginning of 1979 I turned professional and was anxious to enter every show possible, as I had looked forward to the prospect of turning pro for some time.

?Recorded during the preparation of my first pro show, the Southern Pro Cup, were words and phrases that revealed an almost unbridled enthusiasm and desire ?to prevail.? I did prevail and won that first pro contest. As the year proceeded, however, my contest preparation was disrupted by a lot of traveling for seminars and exhibitions as well as new responsibilities, like writing a book for a major New York publisher. Each new responsibility merely added to the stress I was under, and my progress began to suffer. The continuing presence of these and other diversions caused me to place second in my second pro show, the Night of Champions, in Pittsburgh on April 19, 1978. I found stress to be additive, and the stress of training and dieting for four continuous months along with other life stresses we invariably encounter caused me to approach my preparations for the New York pro show in May ?78 with little enthusiasm. Even more notable from reviewing my journal was that while my preparation for the show was essentially the same as for the first two, my body was not responding the way it did for the first two. I placed a dismal third in that contest.?

Losing didn?t dampen Mike?s enthusiasm. In fact, he recorded his analysis of the competition in his journal:

?I shouldn?t have entered this contest. I could see as long as two weeks preceding the show that my body wasn?t responding to the training and diet as it had previously. The physical and mental stress associated with preparing for three shows in as many months, along with certain emotional stresses resulting from family crisis ended up to be too much. I guess it just proves once again [stress researcher Hans] Selye?s notions about stress, especially that we have a limited capacity to resist and adapt before we reach exhaustion and must deviate, or rest.?

As you can see, in addition to simply recording training poundages and diet information, a workout chart or training journal can reveal patterns of progress, such as the effects of various training techniques on strength increases. Without it, you?re a rudderless ship, blown about by any chance wind and doomed to make the same mistake many times over.

[ramboris]

By folowing these 2 basic principles anybody can build muscle-
(1) maximum muscular response is only obtained from the shock of brief, high-intensity training; and (2) muscular growth occurs only after recuperation has taken place.

[N@tural1]

maximum muscular response is only obtained from the shock of brief, high-intensity training

Complete and utter nonsense.

Quote your studies and references that back this up.

Answer- THERE ARE NONE!

It's pure HIT dogmatic propaganda.

[fbcoach]

As others have also said, Mentzer has contradicted himself from time to time, but by no means is that a malady unique to him. The fact is a lot of people changed what they did and said over the decades, and that's just systemic of the very nature of bodybuilding as a science and as a culture. The key thing to remember is the core philosophies taught - not every quote, routine variation, etc. Don't get worked up over the nuances. Use your head.

I agree Nick, everyone has the right to change their minds, as we all do from time to time. But, Mike dogmatically made his assertions while putting down REAL science as he was marketing his writings. Although he changed his mind on training volume anf frequency, his contradictions are in his more recent writings. In his book, "The Wisdom Of Mike Mentzer", he writes that his most productive routine was a 4 days per week, multi-set routine. In the same book, he says to train 1x/week performing only 2 sets. He states many times in writing about some made-up growth switch being turned on by the last rep to failure, then he says, that it may not be necessary, but why chance it. We all know it isn't the last rep, but progression. This is just 2 of many contradictions he made, and he wonders why "Bodybuilders Are Confused". Mike made some really good contributions in his early writings, but when John Little set him up in Ironman Magazine, while he was at his lowest point, his marketing strategy was brilliant. Give the public something (strength, hypertrophy, and fitness) for nothing (training 12 minutes 1x/week). This has created TONS of confusion!!!!

[ramboris]

fbcoach, i recommend you buy the last book written by mike it makes a lot more sense. the name of the book is high intensity training the mike mentzer way. the wisdom of mike mentzer was written by john little, and its made up of all the different routines mike experimented with thats why it might confuse people.

[fbcoach]

fbcoach, i recommend you buy the last book written by mike it makes a lot more sense. the name of the book is high intensity training the mike mentzer way. the wisdom of mike mentzer was written by john little, and its made up of all the different routines mike experimented with thats why it might confuse people.

I have the book, "High Intensity Training The Mike Mentzer Way". It was a good marketing scheme to pimp Mikes other books that basically said the same thing. I'm sorry, but the single fator theory (HD/HIT) and training to failure consistently just doesn't hold up scientifically or anecdotally. The book uses a lot of made up technical jargon like inroads, magical growth switches, etc. all in the name of pseudo-science.

[ironwill2008]

Why is it that the HIT proponents on this site never have any stats or avatars? If HIT works so well for everyone, why is this? If I spent all the time to post all this training instruction, I'd certainly post an avatar of myself to show how effective it is.

I'm not trying to bust anybody's chops here; I'd really like to know the answer to my question.

ETA: Marcus Reinhard (sp?) is the only HIT advocate I've ever seen here with a pic, and he's a pro, not an average guy.

[ramboris]

I dont just blindly follow anybodys training style bellow is the routine that I have designed for myself and it has given me amazing results. I am always striving to perfect my training and nutrition program.


m-legs,cardio
t-rest
w-chest,delts,triceps,cardio
t-rest
f-back,biceps,abs,cardio
s-rest
s-rest

I train to failure and beyond for 6-8 weeks, then I will take 1 week off from weight training, I will only do cardio. Then I do 1 week of medium intensity training to get my body ready for the next hardcore 6-8 cycle. Cardio medium to high intensity for 20-30 min.

LEGS

full squats 3x12,10,8 (warm-ups, increase in weight every set)
1xfailure (15-30 reps)

lying leg curls 1x6-8
1xfailure-r/p+sh (6-12,2-4,1-2)

smith machine standing calf raises 1x7-10
1xfailure+sh (6-12)

CHEST,DELTS,TRICEPS

rotator-cuff warm up

hammer strength isolteral wide bench presses 2x10,6-8
1xfailure-r/p+sh (6-12,2-4,1-2)

military presses 2x6,2-4
1xfailure-r/p+sh (6-12,2-4,1-2)

cable pushdowns 2x10,6-8
1xfailure+2fr+sh (6-12+2fr)

BACK,BICEPS,ABS

t-bar rows 2x10,6-8
1xfailure+2p (6-12+2p)

hammer strength palms up puldowns 1x5-7
1xfailure-r/p+sh (4-6,2-3,1-2)

db concentration curls 2x6,2-4
1xfailure+3ng (6-12+3ng)

weighted chrunches or leg raises 1x15-20
1xfailure+sh (12-20)

r/p (rest/pause)
sh (static hold)
p (partials)
fr (forced reps)
ng (negatives)

All reps are controlled there is absolutely no momentum, I do 3-5 sec negatives and 2-3 sec positives. Strech the muscle for 30-60 sec after each exercise. I keep a log book and have to beat my previous record on every exercise by at least one rep. Above is one of the 2 routines I follow, I alternate them every week. Whenever I stop progressing on an exercise for 2 weeks or more I change it, for example instead of doing concentration curls for biceps, I will do standing bb curls. I take in 400-4500 calories, 300-350g protein, 350-400g carbs, and about 100g of fats per day.

[ironwill2008]

How about answering my question?

[N@tural1]

I dont just blindly follow anybodys training style bellow is the routine that I have designed for myself and it has given me amazing results.

Pics of said "amazing results" ?

How about answering my question?

^^This x2.

[N@tural1]

All reps are controlled there is absolutely no momentum

I replied to this the other (my failure thread), I'll quote it here:

Ramboris, you're young and perhaps haven't studied much in the way of biology, physiology and physics but the "momentum" argument is invalid in support of purposely slowed rep tempos.

Firstly, whenever there is forward movement there is some degree of momentum, this is unavoidable, however this is no way assists the concentric portion of a lift if the load used is heavy enough. We're not talking extremely light weight moved at lightning speeds here.

For example if you were to explosively lift a load at 75% or greater and release your grip at the end of the concentric, how far do you think the bar will continue moving on it's own? Answer - not far if any! Reason - there is no outside force other than your muscle having an influence on the movement.

I'll state this simply - so long the load is being accelerated through out the entire ROM, then the force exerted by the muscle is greater than the load on the bar - plain and simple.

To suggest that there is an outside force aiding the movement implies that the movement becomes easier on the muscle however the opposite is true. To accelerate the load at high(er) velocities requires greater motor unit recruitment and firing frequency and greater force and power output not less.

As I said, you're young Ramboris and I would suggest that you use the years ahead to gain a deeper understanding of training science and it's applications instead of clinging to outdated and inaccurate dogma.

Choice is yours.

[SpencerGrant]

I have been lifting for 9 years (classic 3 to 4 sets per exercices), and training like dorians yates (one set per exercice, going far beyond failure) for 10 month and it really changed my bodybuilder life!
technically, I have better results, good gains, strengt and I am less tirred.
I only spent 3.5h a week at the gym, with same result as when I trained like 8h a week.
when I use a machin, I do a 6reps set until failure, then I use about 60% of the weight, add 6 reps, and again 60% of this new weight, and so on, until I fail to use babyweight! all without rest.
when I flat bench, someone helps me to add reps after failure then I go to a machin to continue stressing the chests
so my chest program consist in 3 or 4 sets.
I do the same for each muscles.

I can even train all the body within 2 trainings

I don't know why I had been making 4 or even 5 sets per exercices in the past. it was a pure wast of energy...

[ramboris]

remember its not about high volume or low volume training its about precise volume. only do the minimum amount of warm up sets required. for example if you are training delts after chest they will only require maybe one warm up set. this will save energy and time and allow you to use maximum effort on the sets that count.