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01-30-2009, 02:46 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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They're already reviewing it. It's gonna get pulled
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a_WMQD3ZDdME
Unless of course, the goal is to start a trade war. That's just what we need.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-30-2009, 03:36 PM
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#3
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Banned
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First, that term "isolationist" is a negative one used as rhetoric by neocons and imperialist minded and globalists. Most that are labelled as such (for example, Pat Buchanan) are actually against free trade and all trade agreements that benefit others (especially for the long term).
Now in regards to this issue, the democrats are as much globalists as neocons so forget about it, but any trade war would only benefit us since were much more diverse and have as much resources and consume so much than any one other country. I'd bet on the US 
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01-30-2009, 03:42 PM
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#4
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Banned
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I've read a few of Pat Buchanans books and I agree with him...
Theamericancause.org
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01-30-2009, 04:12 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog559
First, that term "isolationist" is a negative one used as rhetoric by neocons and imperialist minded and globalists. Most that are labelled as such (for example, Pat Buchanan) are actually against free trade and all trade agreements that benefit others (especially for the long term).
Now in regards to this issue, the democrats are as much globalists as neocons so forget about it, but any trade war would only benefit us since were much more diverse and have as much resources and consume so much than any one other country. I'd bet on the US |
I'll take the opposite side of that bet currently. Smoot-Hawley ideas didn't help us in the Great Depression, won't help now.
But I agree, like I said it's already going to get pulled.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-30-2009, 04:28 PM
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#6
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Banned
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You can't compare the two. Before wprld war two, even after world war one, we were since day one almost all agrarian and rural and now we don't need the world as much as they need us.
I think this will be a hot topic in the coming months, especially on this forum.
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01-30-2009, 10:33 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniPotentTitan
So you think reducing trade is a good idea?
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Missed bull's response earlier. I would laugh with tears in my eye if we embark upon this course. All of a sudden we'll realize how little we actually produce and how grand life is by keeping prices low for us.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-30-2009, 10:54 PM
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#8
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniPotentTitan
So you think reducing trade is a good idea?
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Not at all. I do think it would hurt others more than us, and we can use this as leverage to have unfair trade practices...trade practices that favor the U.S.
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01-30-2009, 10:55 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog559
Not at all. I do think it would hurt others more than us, and we can use this as leverage to have unfair trade practices...trade practices that favor the U.S.
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Can you explain your logic behind thinking we'll come out ahead? Being serious, since like I said I'm at opposite end of spectrum can't really see how.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-30-2009, 11:38 PM
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#10
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Banned
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Any and every sector of the economy we have we can take care of ourselves. Mexico and canada and most other countries have only the manual labor, technical labor, raw goods, this that or the other thing. Our capabilities is much more diverse, making us more able to be self sufficient and economically independent...I'm not saying we can be independent, but we would be less dependent on them than they are on us based on our capabilities.
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01-30-2009, 11:44 PM
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#11
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Electronic Music Producer
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
Age: 28
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I swear it use to be conservatives yelling about buy american. I live in kansas right now, and it is really hard to find a conservative with a foreign car. Times really are changing
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Last edited by theredshirt; 01-31-2009 at 05:32 PM.
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01-30-2009, 11:49 PM
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#12
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theredshirt
I swear it use to be conservatives yelling about by american. I live in kansas right now, and it is really hard to find a conservative with a foreign car. Times really are changing
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wtf?
I guess you mean 'buy' and 'domestic'.
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01-31-2009, 12:32 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog559
Any and every sector of the economy we have we can take care of ourselves. Mexico and canada and most other countries have only the manual labor, technical labor, raw goods, this that or the other thing. Our capabilities is much more diverse, making us more able to be self sufficient and economically independent...I'm not saying we can be independent, but we would be less dependent on them than they are on us based on our capabilities.
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This is a generalized statement devoid of any actual facts. Actually it's all just your opinion currently.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-31-2009, 12:39 AM
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#14
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Registered User
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truthfully that was about the only thing in this package i approved of. How else can we compete with countries like china? Revitalizing the american steel industry and industry in general would be great for this country.
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01-31-2009, 12:42 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72cutlass
truthfully that was about the only thing in this package i approved of. How else can we compete with countries like china? Revitalizing the american steel industry and industry in general would be great for this country.
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Do you know what happens when government pays above market prices for things? They're wasting tax-payer money.
So this one time stimulus will pay above market rates for, say sod. Great you artificially support a floor to the price of sod by paying above market. Right when you stop buying it goes back to the general market price. What was achieved, except you overpaying?
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-31-2009, 12:48 AM
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#16
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay_Me
Do you know what happens when government pays above market prices for things? They're wasting tax-payer money.
So this one time stimulus will pay above market rates for, say sod. Great you artificially support a floor to the price of sod by paying above market. Right when you stop buying it goes back to the general market price. What was achieved, except you overpaying?
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haha, all the and crap in this bill and you are concerned about overpaying for steel.
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01-31-2009, 12:50 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2007
Age: 26
Posts: 5,516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72cutlass
haha, all the and crap in this bill and you are concerned about overpaying for steel.
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Nope. Buy American was provision for everything possible from my limited understanding.
I'm against bill, therefore I'm against useless provision that will evoke trade war we can't afford.
__________________
It is a poor workman who blames his tools - the good man gets on with the job, given what he's got, and gets the best answer he can. And I suggest by altering the problem, by looking at the thing differently, you can make a great deal of difference in your final productivity because you can either do it in such a fashion that people can indeed build on what you've done, or you can do it in such a fashion that the next person has to essentially duplicate again what you've done. - Richard Hamming
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01-31-2009, 12:52 AM
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#18
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Registered User
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I think I mentioned this little snippet in another thread a day or two ago about the no foreign products in the infrastructure portion.
It is the biggest damn mistake they could think of.
Not only are you going to effectively double the price of the infrastructure project by pursuing this, you would also hurt the economy by blockading yourself off from the world market.
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PM me if I forget to rep you, I am mighty forgetful.
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01-31-2009, 02:59 PM
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#19
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay_Me
This is a generalized statement devoid of any actual facts. Actually it's all just your opinion currently.
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Welcome to the world of talking about politics in future tense
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03-04-2009, 04:35 PM
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#20
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I Am Teh Lolrus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72cutlass
truthfully that was about the only thing in this package i approved of. How else can we compete with countries like china? Revitalizing the american steel industry and industry in general would be great for this country.
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The logic of your argument is false though. We don't gain from ONLY buying our own products. Free trade is what helps everyone. It gives us the opportunity to use comparative advantage and open up new resources and cooperators and extra opportunities to use our own special advantages.
It's simply a myth that protectionism works. China tried it way back in the day. They used to be one of the most advanced societies on the planet. Then they wanted to protect their ideas from competition and wouldn't trade with others...so they eventually stagnated and fell way behind. In recent history, they've started trading more and it's been a large contributing factor to their growth.
And so what if we buy cheaper products from overseas? What will they do with those dollars? They gotta convert them and eventually it'll be less attractive to invest and sell in the US and they'll want to buy more from us. It reaches an equilibrium. It doesn't just go on and on and on until we buy everything from them.
Though today we do benefit from consuming more cus we have the reserve currency of the world. So sometimes we basically make money and buy goods with it, lol. But that generally ain't how it works.
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"...that's the great virtue of the free market, of the private market. It enables people...who hate one another...who don't speak the same language...who would fight one another if they had the chance, to cooperate economically. We were able to deal with China when China was a communist state. Even though we thought that that was a terrible arrangement, we could still cooperate. And that's what markets enable people to do. They bring freedom with them."
- Milton Friedman
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