Why do American liberals say socialism is so good?

[IDNeon]

American liberals seem to love European style socialism; but Europe paid for its socialism by American consumerism; now that has ended, Europe is literally falling apart at the seams.

Greece, Latvia, Germany, France, Poland, Spain all in riots.

Iceland's government collapsed a few days ago.

We want to be MORE!??!?!?! like THEM!??!?!?!?!?

WHAT!??!?!?!

Democrats are pretty stupid...but man.

[jackamo2887]

Simple..Liberals and Democrats can just say they're not socialists.

The great majority of America is stupid and they don't know what socialism even is. If Obama stands on a podium and claimed the USSR wasn't communist his legion of obamamaniacs would gladly believe him.

[JuanDenver]

Liberals are stupid.

[jack90]

lol @ whoever thinks socialism is coming to America.

We are just nationalizing several major industries such as healthcare,banking, auto, and possibly oil.

[leafs43]

Canada will probably go the same way.


Because Europe's and even Canada's economy are more integrated and relies more heavily on the world market, when #1 goes through a depression a lot of those income wells dry up. So the cost of living that some countries were barely getting by on will no longer be able to support that.


The problem is, as with a great deal many entitlement programs, once you start giving something away for free, people always expect it to be free forever.

[ThatGuy950]

lol @ whoever thinks socialism is coming to America.

We are just nationalizing several major industries such as healthcare,banking, auto, and possibly oil.

lolwut? I think you need to re-read what you just wrote...

[hardestgainer]

Simple..Liberals and Democrats can just say they're not socialists.

The great majority of America is stupid and they don't know what socialism even is. If Obama stands on a podium and claimed the USSR wasn't communist his legion of obamamaniacs would gladly believe him.

this.

[Mtguy8787]

lol @ whoever thinks socialism is coming to America.

We are just nationalizing several major industries such as healthcare,banking, auto, and possibly oil.

lol @ people who thought we were at war in 1943. We just sent a bunch of troops to other places to fight foreign troops.

[E-Dub187]

"PURDUE ALLIANCE OF LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISTS"...

"AGAINST ALL OPPRESSION!"

It was a flyer posted up for a meeting. It made me sick. Worst thing is my roommate is one of them. He says it is a good form of government and is nothing like communism. Me and my friends cam up with a conclusion that no matter how hard he tries to act like he knows anything and is intelligent, he is a moron who has no idea what he is saying. Pretty much sums up all socialists.

[IDNeon]

"PURDUE ALLIANCE OF LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISTS"...

"AGAINST ALL OPPRESSION!"

It was a flyer posted up for a meeting. It made me sick. Worst thing is my roommate is one of them. He says it is a good form of government and is nothing like communism. Me and my friends cam up with a conclusion that no matter how hard he tries to act like he knows anything and is intelligent, he is a moron who has no idea what he is saying. Pretty much sums up all socialists.

Col. Bezmenev explained exactly how the Soviet Union subverted governments and caused socialist revolutions; and guess what, he described in 1984 exactly what the Democrats and Obama are/is today.

They are socialist revolutionaries trying to bury this country in disarray so they can "normalize" a socialist Republic.

Since it conflicts with normal American values it won't be the "passive socialism" of Europe, it will be the revolutionary socialism of Russia, or China...

Killing millions.

Bezmenev is a genius...and a former Col. in the KGB...I believe him more than Obama.

[maynardjames]

epic lolz at your choice of countries.

It's Sweden, DEnmark and norway that represent european-styled socialism.
Does your brainwashed rightwing self even know this?

Greece, France and Germany happen to be europe's most rightwing economies alongside England and Scotland.
And it's precisely this reason that they are falling apart at the seams.

And guess what it's the MARXIAN left that's getting stronger there (precisely for the reason that they look more like the cappie ****hole USA and not Scandinavia).

[IDNeon]

epic lolz at your choice of countries.

It's Sweden, DEnmark and norway that represent european-styled socialism.
Does your brainwashed rightwing self even know this?

Greece, France and Germany happen to be europe's most rightwing economies alongside England and Scotland.
And it's precisely this reason that they are falling apart at the seams.

And guess what it's the MARXIAN left that's getting stronger there (precisely for the reason that they look more like the cappie ****hole USA and not Scandinavia).

Sweden's economy is smaller than Alabama's...and has less growth and more unemployment...just so you know.

[maynardjames]

Sweden's economy is smaller than Alabama's...and has less growth and more unemployment...just so you know.

Alabama



Sweden



Seriously the picture might look trollish and irrelevant but it's not.

Less unemployment?, the difference buddy is this:
In sweden if you are unemployed you get some sort of subsistence help, reeducation training, EI benefits.

In Alabama , the establishment and its cronies screw you in the ass if you are unemployed or come from the lower sections of society.

Have you looked at the homelessness data, crime data, pollution data?
Not to say the levels of inequality?
Alabama is one big unequal semi-feudal culturally backward cesspool.

How can you even compare it to SWeden (And i repeat the picture above isn't irrelevant)

[Tyr616]

and the cost of living and taxes in sweden will rape you in the *******.

Less unemployment?, the difference buddy is this:
In sweden if you are unemployed you get some sort of subsistence help, reeducation training, EI benefits.

Yeah why be employed when you get welfare state type of programs.

Sweden?s Costly Welfare State

With government spending consuming nearly 54 percent of GDP,[3] Sweden has the biggest burden of government in the developed world. Not surprisingly, a bloated government also means high taxes. Taxes consume nearly 55 percent of GDP, also a record for industrialized nations.


The top personal income tax rate is about 57 percent, which is punitively high, though not as bad as the 87 percent top tax rate that existed as recently as the late 1970s. Payroll taxes also are a significant burden, totaling nearly 40 percent of income, including a 32.28 percent tax imposed on employers. Wealth is taxed, as are capital gains. And, just in case a taxpayer has any disposable income left after paying all these taxes, the value added tax is 25 percent, the maximum rate allowed for European Union nations.



Sweden?s tax policy is not entirely punitive. The corporate income tax is 28 percent, which is not terribly high by world standards. Moreover, Swedish policymakers earlier this decade eliminated the nation?s death tax. But, these positive features are in no way enough to offset the economic damage caused by the high tax rates elsewhere in the Swedish system.



High Joblessness and Low Living Standards

Sweden traditionally has been a prosperous nation. During the early part of the 1900s, the burden of government was low, and laissez-faire economic policy helped create a prosperous nation. Sweden also benefited by avoiding involvement in World War II, which meant it was well-positioned to prosper in the post-war environment, particularly since the aggregate tax burden at the time was about 20 percent of GDP, comparable to the tax burden in Hong Kong today.



Unfortunately, the subsequent expansion of the welfare state chipped away at Sweden?s competitiveness. By 1980, the aggregate tax burden had climbed to more than 50 percent of GDP, and tax rates had reached confiscatory levels. Excessive levels of government spending compounded the economic damage by misallocating labor and capital.



Not surprisingly, bad policy had an effect on Sweden?s economic performance. As mentioned above, Sweden is no longer one of the world?s 10 richest jurisdictions. It now ranks as the 18th most prosperous nation according to the World Bank,[4] which uses per capita gross national income. Using statistics that more accurately measure living standards, such as per capita disposable income, Sweden falls even further in the rankings. According to calculations by the OECD, Swedes now have less disposable income than the average resident of Western Europe. Even Spaniards now rank above Swedes in terms of per capita disposable income.[5]



Americans, meanwhile, have almost twice as much per capita disposable income as Swedes, according to the OECD study. Even if the comparison is made using pre-tax economic output, America remains far ahead. Indeed, a Swedish think tank issued a report noting that if Sweden were part of America, it would be the sixth poorest state.[6]



Employment statistics paint an equally grim picture. The jobless rate was traditionally very low in Sweden, averaging about two percent. Over the past two decades, however, the official unemployment rate has more than tripled,[7] and the official numbers almost certainly undercount the true rate of unemployment. The McKinsey Global Institute estimates that the real unemployment rate is 15 percent.[8] A former Minister of Labor for the Social Democrats was even gloomier, admitting that the jobless rate may be in the 20?25 percent range.[9] A researcher for the nation?s main trade union estimates the real unemployment rate is 20 percent, and a senior fellow at a Brussels-based think tank notes that ?not a single net job has been created in the private sector in Sweden since 1950.?[10]

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1219.cfm

[IDNeon]

Good point; Sweden looks like a 3rd world country now if you ever go there.

[Tyr616]

Good point; Sweden looks like a 3rd world country now if you ever go there.

I heard immigration has took a toll in sweden as well, similar to what we are seeing in USA from mexican illegal aliens.

I actually for a period of time wanted to live in sweden,(Heritage) until i realized USA is still #1, although i dislike many of the people in it.

[JuanDenver]

Canada will probably go the same way.


Because Europe's and even Canada's economy are more integrated and relies more heavily on the world market, when #1 goes through a depression a lot of those income wells dry up. So the cost of living that some countries were barely getting by on will no longer be able to support that.


The problem is, as with a great deal many entitlement programs, once you start giving something away for free, people always expect it to be free forever.

LOL..

Barry could hold a live press conference and give an hour lecture on the wonders of communism and how america will try it out for 8 years. The masses will go along with it. Anyone second guessing him will be charged with hate crimes. He can get away with anything since the liberal media loves suking his peen.

[M-DK]

Good point; Sweden looks like a 3rd world country now if you ever go there.

Lol. Either you dont know what a 3rd world country is, or you dont go to Sweden all that often...

[Stizzel]

I don't know if you noticed, but both the left and the right are pro socialism.

[maynardjames]

Lol. Either you dont know what a 3rd world country is, or you dont go to Sweden all that often...

lol, repped.
He's most probably a typical american rightwinger with Fortress cappie-America mentality. America all the way, woot>>>>>

It's the US that looks like a second world country compared to Northern Europe with its racism, prostitution, homelessness, hunger, misery.

Katrina anyone?
F@ck KKKapitalism.

[maynardjames]

and the cost of living and taxes in sweden will rape you in the *******.



Yeah why be employed when you get welfare state type of programs.


http://www.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/wm1219.cfm

lol, source:

heritage.org

Lullz were had.

[ElMariachi]

Good point; Sweden looks like a 3rd world country now if you ever go there.

Even the UN, which is biased against the US as all hell, compares the standard of living in Sweden on average as slightly lower than the standard of living in the poorest US state, Mississippi.

[StartTheMachine]

Even the UN, which is biased against the US as all hell, compares the standard of living in Sweden on average as slightly lower than the standard of living in the poorest US state, Mississippi.

Are you joking?

[ElMariachi]

Are you joking?

Not at all. We had a long thread on it back in the day, maybe around 2006 or so. The UN rated Sweden as having slightly lower standards of living for the average person there than what the average person in Mississippi has.


I have a whole bunch of family living in Sweden, it isn't exactly the land of milk and honey that people make it out to be.

[Amsterdammerr]

Thank capitalism and greed for the state the world is in now
Thnx guise, you rock

[StartTheMachine]

Not at all. We had a long thread on it back in the day, maybe around 2006 or so. The UN rated Sweden as having slightly lower standards of living for the average person there than what the average person in Mississippi has.


I have a whole bunch of family living in Sweden, it isn't exactly the land of milk and honey that people make it out to be.

Sweden always ranks very high on the UN's Human Development Index, much higher than the US as a whole. I don't think they do "standard of living" rankings. I can't find any, at least.

[chicago]

I don't know if you noticed, but both the left and the right are pro socialism.

exactly.

[SDMuscleBuddy]

The OP is a straw man. Most American liberals I know are capitalists and believe that by working harder, or being smarter, you deserve to reap the benefits of living in one of the richest nations on the planet. And, like American conservatives, we believe that those who choose not to put forth an effort should not be able to reap the benefits of others.

I think where we differ is in how do we deal with those who truly cannot work harder, or are not smarter, or are simply unlucky. Liberals don't look at our economy as a game of Hold 'em, where the winners take all, and the losers end up with nothing. We think that the foundation of the "inalienable right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" should not be limited by ones innate abilities. "Socialistic" ideas and programs designed to keep people from being homeless and hungry is not socialism. Just as our Constitution created a new form of government based on ideas from a number of philosophies, our economic policies can benefit from the same diversity.

Where I think American liberals and conservatives strongly disagree is in the form of capitalism we've adopted and that is corporate capitalism. When that much capital is concentrated in a single entity, then that entity gains too much power over the government, which then continues to modify the rules to benefit the entity. We've lost any hope of having a free market, and then we all become subservient to the corporations. What was originally a program that created the tools to better serve the needs of the people and been turned around.

[blip63]

Government Worker Programs
Civil Service Retirement Systems
Federal Employee Retirement Systems
Railroad Retirement System

Housing & Urban Development (HUD) Programs
Public Housing
Rental Vouchers & Certificates
Section 8 Housing Vouchers
Shelter Plus Care
Single Room Occupancy
Low Income Home Energy Assistance

Social Security Programs
Social Security (OASDI)
Unemployment Insurance
Temporary Disability Insurance
Medicare
Medicaid
Medicare Prescription Drug Plan

Welfare Programs
Supplemental Security Income
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
Food Stamp Program
Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC)
National School Lunch Program
School Breakfast Program
United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)

Programs That Threaten Liberties in General
Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
Import Tariffs

http://www.amarxica.com/pages/programs.html

Who said we're becoming socialist?

[Stizzel]

Not at all. We had a long thread on it back in the day, maybe around 2006 or so. The UN rated Sweden as having slightly lower standards of living for the average person there than what the average person in Mississippi has.


I have a whole bunch of family living in Sweden, it isn't exactly the land of milk and honey that people make it out to be.

Comparing Sweden to America is wrong on so many levels

The OP is a straw man. Most American liberals I know are capitalists and believe that by working harder, or being smarter, you deserve to reap the benefits of living in one of the richest nations on the planet. And, like American conservatives, we believe that those who choose not to put forth an effort should not be able to reap the benefits of others.

I think where we differ is in how do we deal with those who truly cannot work harder, or are not smarter, or are simply unlucky. Liberals don't look at our economy as a game of Hold 'em, where the winners take all, and the losers end up with nothing. We think that the foundation of the "inalienable right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" should not be limited by ones innate abilities. "Socialistic" ideas and programs designed to keep people from being homeless and hungry is not socialism. Just as our Constitution created a new form of government based on ideas from a number of philosophies, our economic policies can benefit from the same diversity.

Where I think American liberals and conservatives strongly disagree is in the form of capitalism we've adopted and that is corporate capitalism. When that much capital is concentrated in a single entity, then that entity gains too much power over the government, which then continues to modify the rules to benefit the entity. We've lost any hope of having a free market, and then we all become subservient to the corporations. What was originally a program that created the tools to better serve the needs of the people and been turned around.

No doubt, the goals of liberals are noble, but how can you call socialism capitalism? And how can you infer that conservatives are greedy and don't care about those in need?