Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The World’s #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 124
  1. #1
    Banned leonidas300's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Posts: 7,146
    BodyPoints: 25307
    Rep Power: 0
    leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leonidas300's BodySpace
    leonidas300 is offline

    Ideal amount of protein Post Exercise is 20 grams.

    It has been clearly established that ingesting protein after a workout augments muscle protein synthesis. While there have been a number of studies comparing different types of protein on this response, no studies have focused on the amount of protein that would elicit optimal increases in protein synthesis. Prominent protein researchers addressed this void in the literature by conducting a dose response study in healthy active men. The protocol involved subjects performing a resistance exercise session on five separate occasions. After exercise, they randomly consumed a drink containing different doses of protein: 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 grams. The source of protein was egg. Compared to consuming no protein, muscle protein synthesis was increased by 37% after the 5 g dose and 56% after the 10 g dose of protein. The 20 g dose condition increased protein synthesis even further by 97%. When 40 g of egg protein was ingested, there was no further increase in protein synthesis. These results indicate a dose response relationship between the amount of protein ingested and stimulation of protein synthesis after resistance exercise up to 20 grams of dietary protein. At the higher dose, there was a marked increase in protein oxidation suggesting that the extra protein was being used as fuel. This is a landmark study that shows 20 grams of high quality protein providing about 9 grams of essential amino acids is the ideal amount of protein to consume after resistance exercise to maximize protein synthesis.

    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. [Epub ahead of print]
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    It was fasted also, so it might be even less.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: County Donegal, Ireland
    Posts: 6,539
    BodyPoints: 4419
    Rep Power: 19529
    neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit neuron's BodySpace
    neuron is offline
    Did the subjects consume protein only or protein plus carbs?
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: County Donegal, Ireland
    Posts: 6,539
    BodyPoints: 4419
    Rep Power: 19529
    neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit neuron's BodySpace
    neuron is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    It was fasted also, so it might be even less.
    The subjects were fasted? You would think that in a fasted state, the body would be less likely to use substrates for protein synthesis.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    Did the subjects consume protein only or protein plus carbs?
    Just protein (egg)... emailed it to you.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: County Donegal, Ireland
    Posts: 6,539
    BodyPoints: 4419
    Rep Power: 19529
    neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit neuron's BodySpace
    neuron is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    Just protein (egg)... emailed it to you.
    danke
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User mjoto's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2008
    Location: United States
    Age: 31
    Posts: 252
    Rep Power: 9
    mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Visit mjoto's BodySpace
    mjoto is offline
    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    The subjects were fasted? You would think that in a fasted state, the body would be less likely to use substrates for protein synthesis.
    Naw in a fasted state the body clings on to whatever we ingest, fat, carbs, protein, sugar.
    My New Haircut
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    The subjects were fasted? You would think that in a fasted state, the body would be less likely to use substrates for protein synthesis.
    That's what I meant... for those of us who aren't fasted it may be less than 20g to maximize.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Banned leonidas300's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Posts: 7,146
    BodyPoints: 25307
    Rep Power: 0
    leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leonidas300's BodySpace
    leonidas300 is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    That's what I meant... for those of us who aren't fasted it may be less than 20g to maximize.
    That is what I was thinking as well. Now I am curious to see what protein synthesis dose rates are for those in a fed state. I think I have been wasting much protein over the years. It is also looking like all those previous studies that were saying the only 20 grams of protein should be consumed at a sitting may have been correct after all.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    That is what I was thinking as well. Now I am curious to see what protein synthesis dose rates are for those in a fed state. I think I have been wasting much protein over the years. It is also looking like all those previous studies that were saying the only 20 grams of protein should be consumed at a sitting may have been correct after all.
    Another consideration, as the authors note in the discussion and that has been brought to light by Lyle, Layne, etc recently is that with frequent protein consumption resulting in chronic aminoacidemia and frequent refractory periods, there may be negative adaptations to this, as the authors quote it "could actually lead to dampening of the protein synthetic response to suboptimal (ie, <20 g) protein doses."

    EDIT: I wonder if that may be a mechanism in which calorie restriction/intermittent fasting attenuates age associated skeletal muscle decline; our traditional 3 meal pattern will have one digesting for most of the day (if average meal takes about 5-6 hours).
    Last edited by GeneGnomeX; 01-24-2009 at 09:03 AM.
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Banned leonidas300's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Posts: 7,146
    BodyPoints: 25307
    Rep Power: 0
    leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leonidas300's BodySpace
    leonidas300 is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    Another consideration, as the authors note in the discussion and that has been brought to light by Lyle, Layne, etc recently is that with frequent protein consumption resulting in chronic aminoacidemia and frequent refractory periods, there may be negative adaptations to this, as the authors quote it "could actually lead to dampening of the protein synthetic response to suboptimal (ie, <20 g) protein doses."

    EDIT: I wonder if that may be a mechanism in which calorie restriction/intermittent fasting attenuates age associated skeletal muscle decline; our traditional 3 meal pattern will have one digesting for most of the day (if average meal takes about 5-6 hours).
    So one large meal a day with snacking is probably better from a LE standpoint but from a bodybuilding or "mass enhancement" perspective it is less than ideal. I tend to believe (without any real evidence) that intermittent fasting is much more beneficial for us from a evolutionary biological perspective.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User mjoto's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2008
    Location: United States
    Age: 31
    Posts: 252
    Rep Power: 9
    mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500) mjoto is a glorious beacon of knowledge. (+2500)
    Visit mjoto's BodySpace
    mjoto is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    That is what I was thinking as well. Now I am curious to see what protein synthesis dose rates are for those in a fed state. I think I have been wasting much protein over the years. It is also looking like all those previous studies that were saying the only 20 grams of protein should be consumed at a sitting may have been correct after all.

    thats a more often than not original idea... I mean you arent the first to think about it, but I like the "stray from the norm" idea you got goin on. Why dont you try for a couple weeks and tell us what happend?
    My New Haircut
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User michael3435's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Rhode Island, United States
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 4,963
    Rep Power: 2413
    michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit michael3435's BodySpace
    michael3435 is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    It has been clearly established that ingesting protein after a workout augments muscle protein synthesis. While there have been a number of studies comparing different types of protein on this response, no studies have focused on the amount of protein that would elicit optimal increases in protein synthesis. Prominent protein researchers addressed this void in the literature by conducting a dose response study in healthy active men. The protocol involved subjects performing a resistance exercise session on five separate occasions. After exercise, they randomly consumed a drink containing different doses of protein: 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 grams. The source of protein was egg. Compared to consuming no protein, muscle protein synthesis was increased by 37% after the 5 g dose and 56% after the 10 g dose of protein. The 20 g dose condition increased protein synthesis even further by 97%. When 40 g of egg protein was ingested, there was no further increase in protein synthesis. These results indicate a dose response relationship between the amount of protein ingested and stimulation of protein synthesis after resistance exercise up to 20 grams of dietary protein. At the higher dose, there was a marked increase in protein oxidation suggesting that the extra protein was being used as fuel. This is a landmark study that shows 20 grams of high quality protein providing about 9 grams of essential amino acids is the ideal amount of protein to consume after resistance exercise to maximize protein synthesis.

    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. [Epub ahead of print]
    finally!

    hopefully people will realize more is not better. i have usually stuck to the 20 pro 40 cho ratio.
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Erotic Politician BiggJohn's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Location: North
    Stats: 6'0", 225 lbs
    Posts: 10,825
    BodyPoints: 13167
    Rep Power: 3563
    BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BiggJohn has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BiggJohn's BodySpace
    BiggJohn is offline
    Egg protein has high bioavailability. Those who supplement with whey might need more than 20g.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User michael3435's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Rhode Island, United States
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 4,963
    Rep Power: 2413
    michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit michael3435's BodySpace
    michael3435 is offline
    Originally Posted by BiggJohn View Post
    Egg protein has high bioavailability. Those who supplement with whey might need more than 20g.
    the bv of whey is higher than that of egg. so with your rationale, you would need less whey.
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by BiggJohn View Post
    Egg protein has high bioavailability. Those who supplement with whey might need more than 20g.
    As does whey, by what measuring standard is egg protein superior?

    Regardless, this cannot be directly applied to whey consumption for reasons independent of bioavailability.
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Registered User Rhetorical Oracle's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Location: Ironton, Ohio, United States
    Age: 26
    Stats: 6'1", 202 lbs
    Posts: 96
    BodyPoints: 9225
    Rep Power: 0
    Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000) Rhetorical Oracle is a complete loser! (-2000)
    Visit Rhetorical Oracle's BodySpace
    Rhetorical Oracle is offline
    It depends on how big you are and at what rate your muscle burn thru nourishment.

    Physically superior people burn through more protein because their cells are of higher quality and require better nourishment.
    I Am The Truth-Nurtured Nexus of Excellence
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User alaska21's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 26
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 12,401
    BodyPoints: 5432
    Rep Power: 7486
    alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit alaska21's BodySpace
    alaska21 is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    It has been clearly established that ingesting protein after a workout augments muscle protein synthesis. While there have been a number of studies comparing different types of protein on this response, no studies have focused on the amount of protein that would elicit optimal increases in protein synthesis. Prominent protein researchers addressed this void in the literature by conducting a dose response study in healthy active men. The protocol involved subjects performing a resistance exercise session on five separate occasions. After exercise, they randomly consumed a drink containing different doses of protein: 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 grams. The source of protein was egg. Compared to consuming no protein, muscle protein synthesis was increased by 37% after the 5 g dose and 56% after the 10 g dose of protein. The 20 g dose condition increased protein synthesis even further by 97%. When 40 g of egg protein was ingested, there was no further increase in protein synthesis. These results indicate a dose response relationship between the amount of protein ingested and stimulation of protein synthesis after resistance exercise up to 20 grams of dietary protein. At the higher dose, there was a marked increase in protein oxidation suggesting that the extra protein was being used as fuel. This is a landmark study that shows 20 grams of high quality protein providing about 9 grams of essential amino acids is the ideal amount of protein to consume after resistance exercise to maximize protein synthesis.

    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. [Epub ahead of print]
    This study should be taken with a grain of salt. How man sets and reps were the subjects performing? Were they conditioned bodybuilders? Were they going to failure? Was the egg protein liquid, and thus traveling through the lumen at a rate faster than lacteals can absorb the amino acids? Another study showed that transit time was key.

    I, for one, will stick to 35g protein per meal
    Your achievements in life mean NOTHING without aesthetics
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Got joaks? joakman's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: New Zealand
    Stats: 8'8", 888 lbs
    Posts: 13,864
    BodyPoints: 14588
    Rep Power: 126933
    joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit joakman's BodySpace
    joakman is offline
    Interesting stuff here. Subbed for discussion
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    the Hsp70 of BB.com TheWaffleIron's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2008
    Location: California, United States
    Age: 24
    Stats: 6'4", 220 lbs
    Posts: 3,874
    Rep Power: 19519
    TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) TheWaffleIron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit TheWaffleIron's BodySpace
    TheWaffleIron is offline
    I have access to the full study (link below), so I can give some answers.

    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/89/1/161

    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    How man sets and reps were the subjects performing?
    4 Sets, 8 - 10 reps

    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    Were they going to failure?
    Yes.

    From Infusion Protocol, of Subjects and Methods
    Bilateral resistance exercise was performed on guided-motion machines and involved 4 sets each of leg press, knee extension, and leg curl using a predetermined load designed to elicit failure within 8 - 10 repetitions. Each set was completed within 25 s with a rest period of 120 s between each set.
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    Were they conditioned bodybuilders?
    They were trained.

    From Subjects, of Subjects and Methods
    Six healthy active males ... who had 4 mo of previous recreational weight-lifting experience (range: 4 mo - 8 y) volunteered to participate in the study.
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    Was the egg protein liquid, and thus traveling through the lumen at a rate faster than lacteals can absorb the amino acids?
    Yes.

    From Study Design, of Subjects and Methods
    After exercise, participants consumed a drink containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g egg protein in a randomized order.
    Last edited by TheWaffleIron; 01-24-2009 at 12:24 PM.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

    Nutrition and Supp Science FAQ:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139153843&p=849049173&viewfull=1#post849049173
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    This study should be taken with a grain of salt. How man sets and reps were the subjects performing? Were they conditioned bodybuilders? Were they going to failure? Was the egg protein liquid, and thus traveling through the lumen at a rate faster than lacteals can absorb the amino acids? Another study showed that transit time was key.

    I, for one, will stick to 35g protein per meal
    You label it as worthless without reading it?

    This study wasn't comparing different proteins against one another... it was only egg protein in several different dosings.

    Yes they were trained, 4 sets of each: leg press, knee extension, leg curl; pre-determined load taht elicited failure within 8-10 reps. Rest 25sec, 120sec between sets. Protein was dissolved in water, yes.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    Banned leonidas300's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Posts: 7,146
    BodyPoints: 25307
    Rep Power: 0
    leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leonidas300's BodySpace
    leonidas300 is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    You label it as worthless without reading it?

    This study wasn't comparing different proteins against one another... it was only egg protein in several different dosings.

    Yes they were trained, 4 sets of each: leg press, knee extension, leg curl; pre-determined load taht elicited failure within 8-10 reps. Rest 25sec, 120sec between sets. Protein was dissolved in water, yes.
    People do not like to be told what they were doing was wrong. WE are much more comfortable doing what we have always believed to be right, even in the face of contrary evidence, people (even intelligent ones) will stubbornly cling to their old belief.

    I think I am going to stick right around 30 grams Whey Casein with 60 grams Carbs post workout. This should be fine as I imagine I weigh more (230lbs) than the study participants.
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    Banned leonidas300's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2006
    Posts: 7,146
    BodyPoints: 25307
    Rep Power: 0
    leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leonidas300 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leonidas300's BodySpace
    leonidas300 is offline
    I think the only exceptions to this study would be for people that weigh considerably more than the subject participants or for those using AAS which increases protein synthesis. For the normal athlete 20grams per sitting should be more than enough.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Got joaks? joakman's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2006
    Location: New Zealand
    Stats: 8'8", 888 lbs
    Posts: 13,864
    BodyPoints: 14588
    Rep Power: 126933
    joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) joakman has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit joakman's BodySpace
    joakman is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    I think the only exceptions to this study would be for people that weigh considerably more than the subject participants or for those using AAS which increases protein synthesis. For the normal athlete 20grams per sitting should be more than enough.
    Definitely agree. I would like to see a study with AAS
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Veritas. Aequitas. neuron's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2004
    Location: County Donegal, Ireland
    Posts: 6,539
    BodyPoints: 4419
    Rep Power: 19529
    neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) neuron has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit neuron's BodySpace
    neuron is offline
    Originally Posted by mjoto View Post
    Naw in a fasted state the body clings on to whatever we ingest, fat, carbs, protein, sugar.
    The body may "cling" to nutrients, but certainly won't direct them to an anabolic pathway until its energy demands are met. Protein synthesis and amino acid transport are mediated by insulin and IRS, which wouldn't be governing the environment in a fasted state. Glycogen phosphorylase would be the most overriding enzyme until the levels of intracellular g-6-p levels increase to a certain point. Protein synthesis would be one of the last activities since it requires much more ATP and time.
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Registered User alaska21's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 26
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 12,401
    BodyPoints: 5432
    Rep Power: 7486
    alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit alaska21's BodySpace
    alaska21 is offline
    Originally Posted by GeneGnomeX View Post
    You label it as worthless without reading it?

    This study wasn't comparing different proteins against one another... it was only egg protein in several different dosings.

    Yes they were trained, 4 sets of each: leg press, knee extension, leg curl; pre-determined load taht elicited failure within 8-10 reps. Rest 25sec, 120sec between sets. Protein was dissolved in water, yes.
    Did you do this study or something lol? I said take it with a grain of salt...not that it was worthless. How the hell do you get worthless out of that...you almost seemed offended at my comment when I was just saying that one study does not mean you should go change everything. We will see what other studies show in the future to confirm the evidence.

    Who knows how valid the data was...no one but the researchers witnessed the experiment thus we cannot eliminate the chance that some of their techniques had some degree of error. Some labs even toss out data that hurts their study (One study on global warming comes to mind where they deleted data points that hurt P values).



    **All I'm saying is wait for more evidence before you change everything. Never once did I say it was worthless...wtf.
    Your achievements in life mean NOTHING without aesthetics
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User alaska21's Avatar
    Join Date: Aug 2005
    Age: 26
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 12,401
    BodyPoints: 5432
    Rep Power: 7486
    alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) alaska21 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit alaska21's BodySpace
    alaska21 is offline
    Originally Posted by leonidas300 View Post
    I think the only exceptions to this study would be for people that weigh considerably more than the subject participants or for those using AAS which increases protein synthesis. For the normal athlete 20grams per sitting should be more than enough.
    So then no one except AAS users need more than 100-120g protein a day, if one were to eat 6 times a day? Seems too low imo...but who knows.
    Your achievements in life mean NOTHING without aesthetics
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Registered User michael3435's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Rhode Island, United States
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 4,963
    Rep Power: 2413
    michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit michael3435's BodySpace
    michael3435 is offline
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    Did you do this study or something lol? I said take it with a grain of salt...not that it was worthless. How the hell do you get worthless out of that...you almost seemed offended at my comment when I was just saying that one study does not mean you should go change everything. We will see what other studies show in the future to confirm the evidence.

    Who knows how valid the data was...no one but the researchers witnessed the experiment thus we cannot eliminate the chance that some of their techniques had some degree of error. Some labs even toss out data that hurts their study (One study on global warming comes to mind where they deleted data points that hurt P values).



    **All I'm saying is wait for more evidence before you change everything. Never once did I say it was worthless...wtf.
    i understand that you didnt say it was worthless, but this is the most accurate studies we have seen in terms of protein recommendations pwo. therefore, we should not "take it with a grain of salt". most other studies i have seen done on this matter have recommended 20 g as well but the studies werent as good as this.

    also, we cant assume studies were tampered with. with that rationale, why even look at studies? what would their motivation even be to throw out data on this topic? something like global warming has much more personal activism involved.
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Registered User michael3435's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2008
    Location: Rhode Island, United States
    Stats: 6'0", 195 lbs
    Posts: 4,963
    Rep Power: 2413
    michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) michael3435 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit michael3435's BodySpace
    michael3435 is offline
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    So then no one except AAS users need more than 100-120g protein a day, if one were to eat 6 times a day? Seems too low imo...but who knows.
    this is talking about post workout, not throughout the day. you body cannot absorb as much protein pwo.
    Last edited by michael3435; 01-24-2009 at 06:21 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Ear Responsible GeneGnomeX's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Stats: 6'1", 195 lbs
    Posts: 3,747
    BodyPoints: 15017
    Rep Power: 5981
    GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) GeneGnomeX has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit GeneGnomeX's BodySpace
    GeneGnomeX is offline
    Originally Posted by alaska21 View Post
    Did you do this study or something lol? I said take it with a grain of salt...not that it was worthless. How the hell do you get worthless out of that...you almost seemed offended at my comment when I was just saying that one study does not mean you should go change everything. We will see what other studies show in the future to confirm the evidence.

    Who knows how valid the data was...no one but the researchers witnessed the experiment thus we cannot eliminate the chance that some of their techniques had some degree of error. Some labs even toss out data that hurts their study (One study on global warming comes to mind where they deleted data points that hurt P values).



    **All I'm saying is wait for more evidence before you change everything. Never once did I say it was worthless...wtf.
    Obviously, things need to be reproduced and support built. I was under the assumption that this was understood by those reading this forum.

    Perhaps it is an internet miscommunication, but your phrasing came out as hostile. A lot of people here seem to disregard research completely if it doesn't match exactly with their routine. With this explanation I understand what you are saying.
    Reply With Quote

Reply
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout