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  1. #1
    not eligible for mod betitom's Avatar
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    what supplements are best before/after cardio workouts to get best results?

    I'm trying to lose a lot of weight. I'm eating right. Basically my diet consists of mostly healthy fats, high fiber, not a lot of carbs, not a whole lot of protein, but not too little. I'm only taking protein shakes on weight lifting days and am going to buy a multivitamin to take because I know that's just as important too. What can I eat and what supplements can I take before or after cardio workouts to maximize fat loss?

    I read somewhere the other day that waiting 1 hour to eat after your cardio workout is best to lose weight. Is this true?

    reps for help
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  2. #2
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    i take purple wraath (amino acids) before cardio.

    youre not supposed to eat directly after cardio cause supposedly your body is still in fat burning mode for like up to an hour after, so why waste free fat loss.
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  3. #3
    ɟɐǝן ʍǝu ɐ ɹǝʌo ƃuıuɹnʇ xnotoriousx's Avatar
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    Just get some BCAA's and maybe some glutamine in you before you do cardio to help u keep from burning up muscle.
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  4. #4
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    Glutamine is trash.
    I want to touch the butt.
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  5. #5
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    Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
    Glutamine is trash.
    Trash ? Why is that ? any proof that glutamine is trash?

    This is my first time hearing that .
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  6. #6
    Registered User madbull's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Animal_Fries View Post
    i take purple wraath (amino acids) before cardio.

    youre not supposed to eat directly after cardio cause supposedly your body is still in fat burning mode for like up to an hour after, so why waste free fat loss.
    Is that right? How long should one wait after cardio? I'm usually really hungry after a do a cardio session it feels like im going into catabolic state.
    If all else fails, destroy all evidence that you ever even tried.
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  7. #7
    The Man. GBA's Avatar
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    Thermogenics might help pre-workout, then creatine and lots of water post. The creatine can make you bloated, but it's just water weight.

    edit: bb.com store has expired Biotest MD6 on sale for dirt cheap. Just FYI
    ceno ergo sum
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Gabriel01 View Post
    Trash ? Why is that ? any proof that glutamine is trash?

    This is my first time hearing that .
    There have been plenty of studies showing that glutamine has no positive effects on weight training and none showing that it has any. Try searching for them, I'm a bit lazy.
    I want to touch the butt.
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  9. #9
    Life=Red Sox/Pit Bulls NDame616's Avatar
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    Regardless of what you do, a protein shake with BCAAs and creatine (if you didn't take it preworkout) is the way to go. Then, about an hr or so later, eat a well balanced mail.

    And,while I wouldn't say glutamine is "trash", I would certainly say the court is still out on it's effects. Some people say they like it, others don't.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Blindead's Avatar
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    There's a lot of people saying it's good, but I've yet to see any real proof. I've heard gym rats say "it'll help you recover bro." Yet all of that stems from studies in BURN VICTIMS! I've never even seen any anecdotal evidence besides people saying it helps.
    I want to touch the butt.
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
    There have been plenty of studies showing that glutamine has no positive effects on weight training and none showing that it has any. Try searching for them, I'm a bit lazy.
    I agree. There are threads on here about it. Search "Glutamine" and "Str8flexed" in the username aat the same time.
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  12. #12
    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gabriel01 View Post
    Trash ? Why is that ? any proof that glutamine is trash?

    This is my first time hearing that .
    People tend to think in absolutes when saying it's good or bad and don't actually consider the context or reasons for which it's used.

    It's basically marketed with unrealistic expectations to the younger crowd who are not truly training at a very high level and are just looking to gain some weight. So the vast majority yield no benefit from additional glutamine.

    For those training at a very high level and under a high level of stressors, it can be an adjunct when used under certain unconventional & unique conditions - such as an extremely intense training program, hypocaloric diet and/or for specific purposes such as digestive suupport, elevating postpranial energy expenditure, glucose uptake / repletion under glycogen depleted conditions, ammonia clearance, muscle acidity buffering, leucine sparing effect, enhancement of exercise induced IL-6 release, etc...
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by Animal_Fries View Post
    i take purple wraath (amino acids) before cardio.

    youre not supposed to eat directly after cardio cause supposedly your body is still in fat burning mode for like up to an hour after, so why waste free fat loss.
    Not only are they EAAs, it also has beta alanine in it.

    I love Purple Wraath.

    If I work out, then do cardio, as soon as I'm done I suck a shake down... to each their own.
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  14. #14
    ɟɐǝן ʍǝu ɐ ɹǝʌo ƃuıuɹnʇ xnotoriousx's Avatar
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    i take a mixture of caffeine, bcaas and glutamine before empty stomach cardio to fill my amino acid pool
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  15. #15
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    Thumbs down

    Caffeine tabs or a cup of coffee or tea before, and forget all of these expensive aminos too, food is fine.
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  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by Animal_Fries View Post
    i take purple wraath (amino acids) before cardio.

    youre not supposed to eat directly after cardio cause supposedly your body is still in fat burning mode for like up to an hour after, so why waste free fat loss.
    You don't have to wait an hour, just eat when you get home. There's no need to rush and have a shake at the gym or something like some people do after lifting, but also no need to wait a full hour. Your body doesn't have "modes." This also depends on the duration and intensity of your workout -- obv. after a 60 mile ride, i'm not going to wait an hour to eat.
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
    Glutamine is trash.
    you fail.
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  18. #18
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    Originally Posted by Seamless View Post
    Glutamine is trash.
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  19. #19
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    Thumbs down

    Originally Posted by justjosh View Post
    you fail.
    Originally Posted by Own3r View Post
    Age: 18
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    No, he doesn't fail. Maybe if you guys would do some research you would realize that oral supplementation of glutamine is not very efficient or cost effective. At least 80% of glutamine gets destroyed by the gut. This means that a large majority of it will never even make it to the bloodstream. Plus, glutamine is a non essential amino acid, so the body can make it on an as needed basis. These are the facts, so why would you want to waste your money on glutamine? Just because some bros swear they recover better on it? That is not a very good reason IMO.

    Here's a study that shows 83% was destroyed, and the rest was converted to glucose:

    Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans.

    Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE.

    Departments of Medicine and Chemistry, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405, USA.

    [1,2-(13)C(2)]glutamine and [ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine were infused for 7 h into five postabsorptive healthy subjects on two occasions. On one occasion, the tracers were infused intravenously for 3.5 h and then by a nasogastric tube for 3.5 h. The order of infusion was reversed on the other occasion. From the plasma tracer enrichment measurements at plateau during the intravenous and nasogastric infusion periods, we determined that 27 +/- 2% of the enterally delivered phenylalanine and 64 +/- 2% of the glutamine were removed on the first pass by the splanchnic bed. Glutamine flux was 303 +/- 8 micromol. kg(-1). h(-1). Of the enterally delivered [(13)C]glutamine tracer, 73 +/- 2% was recovered as exhaled CO(2) compared with 58 +/- 1% of the intravenously infused tracer. The fraction of the enterally delivered tracer that was oxidized specifically on the first pass by the splanchnic bed was 53 +/- 2%, comprising 83% of the total tracer extracted. From the appearance of (13)C in plasma glucose, we estimated that 7 and 10% of the intravenously and nasogastrically infused glutamine tracers, respectively, were converted to glucose. The results for glutamine flux and first-pass extraction were similar to our previously reported values when a [2-(15)N]glutamine tracer [Matthews DE, Morano MA, and Campbell RG, Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 264: E848-E854, 1993] was used.e results of [(13)C]glutamine tracer disposal demonstrate that the major fate of enteral glutamine extraction is for oxidation and that only a minor portion is used for gluconeogenesis.
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  20. #20
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    I use glutamine also and have been for years. I enjoy the product. SO you guys tell us that you have read or seen NO EVIDENCE that glutamine works...have you seen any evidence that says it dont?!
    All the studies are complete BS in my eyes. Read the same magazine/book that you found that glutamine is bad for you and i bet in next months issue, they will tell you there have been numerous studies done by some college professor and that it was PROVEN that glutamine does wonders.
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  21. #21
    Okay _Landers_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StandStrong View Post
    I use glutamine also and have been for years. I enjoy the product. SO you guys tell us that you have read or seen NO EVIDENCE that glutamine works...have you seen any evidence that says it dont?!
    All the studies are complete BS in my eyes. Read the same magazine/book that you found that glutamine is bad for you and i bet in next months issue, they will tell you there have been numerous studies done by some college professor and that it was PROVEN that glutamine does wonders.
    No...try again brah

    Scientific Studies > Anecdotal evidence
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  22. #22
    Okay _Landers_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StandStrong View Post
    I use glutamine also and have been for years. I enjoy the product. SO you guys tell us that you have read or seen NO EVIDENCE that glutamine works...have you seen any evidence that says it dont?!
    All the studies are complete BS in my eyes. Read the same magazine/book that you found that glutamine is bad for you and i bet in next months issue, they will tell you there have been numerous studies done by some college professor and that it was PROVEN that glutamine does wonders.
    I already posted evidence above
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    Originally Posted by Toddrick View Post
    I already posted evidence above
    This will probably be really tough for your simple mind to comprehend but suffice to say you are a bro too just on the other regurgitating side of the aisle.

    Originally Posted by deserusan View Post
    I know it's hard for some to see beyond "glutamine does nothing for protein synthesis" blah, blah, blah. However, I highly suggest some of you naysayers look into glutamine induced enhancement of IL6 release and the new avenue of research which now regards some cytokines as myokines.

    While glutamine is certainly not marketed correctly it is by no means "worthless" either. IL-6 plays a direct role in leukocyte traffiking, glcuose disposal, and possibly how muscle contraction itself leads to fat metabolism.

    Oral glutamine is by NO means worthless.........

    http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/Repr...induced%20.pdf

    http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/Repr...0during%20.pdf

    http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/Repr...20exercise.pdf

    http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/Repr...se%20to%20.pdf
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    This will probably be really tough for your simple mind to comprehend but suffice to say you are a bro too just on the other regurgitating side of the aisle.
    So all of Layne's work beating the crap out of glutamine supplementation doesn't matter to you? Fail.
    Food quality does not change the laws of thermodynamics. Provided you consume adequate protein, EFAs, fiber, and vitamins and minerals you can eat whatever you want.

    The only difference between a 'clean' and a 'dirty' food is how much of it you eat.

    The Glycemic Index is meaningless unless you eat carbs alone in a fasted state. As soon as you add fat, protein, or fiber to a meal or have eaten in the previous 4-6 hours the GI is irrelevant.
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  25. #25
    ɟɐǝן ʍǝu ɐ ɹǝʌo ƃuıuɹnʇ xnotoriousx's Avatar
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    There isnt much benefit to taking it pwo with whey as whey contains good amounts of glutamine and other aminos ...

    I think taking glutamine is more for people wanting to cut with very low muscle loss, if you have the xtra money, go for it. If not, you'll live.

    I def wouldn't say it's useless.
    Last edited by xnotoriousx; 01-22-2009 at 01:45 PM.
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    Contrary to what the bros have been marketed to believe, supplemental glutamine has consistently failed to increase strength and lean mass (not to mention, your dietary BCAA will act as a presursor to glutamine synthesis anyway):

    Addition of glutamine to essential amino acids and...[Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2006] - PubMed Result

    Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with ...[Eur J Appl Physiol. 2001] - PubMed Result[/QUOTE]

    So, it's doubtful that supplemental glutamine will do any good above and beyond a pre-existent abundance of protein consumption typical of the BBing & fitness population.

    Reminder: animal proteins range from 18-26% BCAA. Even soy protein is 18% BCAA.The research on BCAA is plenty & ongoing, but the common thread is that BCAA supplementation gets compared to nothing, under overnight fasted conditions. Don't forget that BCAA is a precursor for glutamine synthesis within the body, so again, a protein-rich diet common to BBing/fitness folks has plenty of BCAA, which should sufficiently provide enough material for endogenous glutamine synthesis.

    Regarding recovery, supplemental glutamine on top of the aforementioned conditions is questionable. Let me quote a couple of sections of a recent review on glutamine:

    Glutamine: the nonessential amino acid for perform...[Curr Sports Med Rep. 2007] - PubMed Result

    "Even using protein breakdown as a measure of recovery, the effects of glutamine are mixed at best. Though one investigation demonstrated an inhibition of total body proteolysis as measured by improved leucine flux after glutamine supplementation [21], a separate study showed glutamine supplementation did not affect urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine, another marker of protein degradation [14]. Therefore, whether considering buffering capacity, time to fatigue, or protein balance, glutamine supplementation fails to consistently demonstrate any positive ergogenic benefit on measures of recovery from exercise."

    "Unfortunately, this appears to be another example of commercial marketing trumping scientific evidence that in this case demonstrates how nonessential glutamine supplementation is to athletic performance."
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    Originally Posted by imccarthy View Post
    So all of Layne's work beating the crap out of glutamine supplementation doesn't matter to you? Fail.
    Beating the crap out of it for what use??? That's what I thought. Xtend doesn't contain it for no reason bro.
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    Beating the crap out of it for what use??? That's what I thought. Xtend doesn't contain it for no reason bro.
    I don't think Xtend has ever been PROVEN to actually do anything other than anecdotally suppress hunger.
    Food quality does not change the laws of thermodynamics. Provided you consume adequate protein, EFAs, fiber, and vitamins and minerals you can eat whatever you want.

    The only difference between a 'clean' and a 'dirty' food is how much of it you eat.

    The Glycemic Index is meaningless unless you eat carbs alone in a fasted state. As soon as you add fat, protein, or fiber to a meal or have eaten in the previous 4-6 hours the GI is irrelevant.
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  29. #29
    Okay _Landers_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rhizome View Post
    This will probably be really tough for your simple mind to comprehend but suffice to say you are a bro too just on the other regurgitating side of the aisle.
    Yes, glutamine has uses, it's just not for what the supplement companies promote them for. My post criticizes glutamine as an anabolic supplement/muscle preserver, for which it is primarily marketed. The "Glutamine Bashers" are not saying that the supplement is complete ****, but rather that it is overrated as a muscle builder. It is shown to be useful in hypercatabolic patients, so it may be useful for a bodybuilder on a very low calorie diet training at a high level. For the majority of the people on this board, not a make or break supplement.
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  30. #30
    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Toddrick View Post
    Yes, glutamine has uses, it's just not for what the supplement companies promote them for. My post criticizes glutamine as an anabolic supplement/muscle preserver, for which it is primarily marketed. The "Glutamine Bashers" are not saying that the supplement is complete ****, but rather that it is overrated as a muscle builder. It is shown to be useful in hypercatabolic patients, so it may be useful for a bodybuilder on a very low calorie diet training at a high level. For the majority of the people on this board, not a make or break supplement.
    Yup. For the average well-fed folks it's a poorly marketed bucket of false promises. BRB spiking my GH and pumping up my alkaline reserves.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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