Does Arnold Schwarzenegger not like the Mentzers/HIT?

[leonidas300]

Mentzer was obsessed with himself and a narcissist in the worst form. He was completely unbalanced psychologically and he let his bitterness run his life.

[CapnPowerMonger]

Arnold was much lighter but have you ever noticed that some guys can be big looking but hit a front double biceps and nothing that special happens? Then some guys can look no more impressive relaxed but when they hit that pose - BOOM - they have that wow factor. Arnold had that wow factor. He transformed before your eyes into something amazing when he posed.

His legs were lacking in 75' and in 80' but sadly nobody ever got down to Arnolds legs...his upper body kept them so entranced they never managed to look at his legs. At that time upper body was MUCH more important than legs anyway - ask tom platz.

That being said Arnold had the whole thing rigged. He had the judges in his pocket, the man Joe Weider in his pocket, and broke rules to get in the contest to begin with. BUT he still deserved to win that contest on wow factor. Nobody else could hit those poses with him...they could stand relaxed with him...but not hit the poses.

Mentzer was the least of the people arnold needed to worry about. He had flat pecs, his biceps didnt peak like arnolds, he had a bloated gut (which used to matter) that he let hang out on many poses. Mentzer was great, but he was no arnold.

Zane is my favorite bodybuilder ever, but he was injured and probably only about 80% due to an injury...so he wasnt going to win.

Overall arnold won that contest, but he could have been much worse and still won it. No way the judges were going to let him lose.

Franco in 81' was a disgrace though. Padilla was so much better. Franco still had some wow factor with his back and chest, but his chest was flawed by gyno and his legs small due to the previous "worlds strongest man" injury. He should NOT have won.

[Murdok1741]

Arnold was much lighter but have you ever noticed that some guys can be big looking but hit a front double biceps and nothing that special happens? Then some guys can look no more impressive relaxed but when they hit that pose - BOOM - they have that wow factor. Arnold had that wow factor. He transformed before your eyes into something amazing when he posed.

His legs were lacking in 75' and in 80' but sadly nobody ever got down to Arnolds legs...his upper body kept them so entranced they never managed to look at his legs. At that time upper body was MUCH more important than legs anyway - ask tom platz.

That being said Arnold had the whole thing rigged. He had the judges in his pocket, the man Joe Weider in his pocket, and broke rules to get in the contest to begin with. BUT he still deserved to win that contest on wow factor. Nobody else could hit those poses with him...they could stand relaxed with him...but not hit the poses.

Mentzer was the least of the people arnold needed to worry about. He had flat pecs, his biceps didnt peak like arnolds, he had a bloated gut (which used to matter) that he let hang out on many poses. Mentzer was great, but he was no arnold.

Zane is my favorite bodybuilder ever, but he was injured and probably only about 80% due to an injury...so he wasnt going to win.

Overall arnold won that contest, but he could have been much worse and still won it. No way the judges were going to let him lose.

Franco in 81' was a disgrace though. Padilla was so much better. Franco still had some wow factor with his back and chest, but his chest was flawed by gyno and his legs small due to the previous "worlds strongest man" injury. He should NOT have won.

the "wow" factor? Definately not what Arnold had in 1980. I wasn't impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr3rz...eature=related (if anyone can imbed this, I'd appreciate it! )

This is a pretty awesome video, gets me pumped up for the gym. But just watch the video man, it's all there. 0:25 second mark, Mentzer's MM. I don't know about you guys, but the way the division in his pecs split up looks pretty damn amazing.
0:33 second mark, stomach vacuum. How many bodybuilders can pull that off? Zane and Corney I believe are the only other ones I can think of.
1:50 mark, another pose, that seems to be a variation on Oliva's pose, looks amazing. The V-taper and forearms are stunning here.

Those are the ones that stood out in particular. Arnold just wasn't up to par. It was rigged. Mentzer's posing, IMO, was brilliant.
Before anyone says anything, no, I'm not a HIT jedi, lol. I just find his physique and posing to be spectacular. Very proportional.

[CapnPowerMonger]

the "wow" factor? Definately not what Arnold had in 1980. I wasn't impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr3rz...eature=related (if anyone can imbed this, I'd appreciate it! )

This is a pretty awesome video, gets me pumped up for the gym. But just watch the video man, it's all there. 0:25 second mark, Mentzer's MM. I don't know about you guys, but the way the division in his pecs split up looks pretty damn amazing.
0:33 second mark, stomach vacuum. How many bodybuilders can pull that off? Zane and Corney I believe are the only other ones I can think of.
1:50 mark, another pose, that seems to be a variation on Oliva's pose, looks amazing. The V-taper and forearms are stunning here.

Those are the ones that stood out in particular. Arnold just wasn't up to par. It was rigged. Mentzer's posing, IMO, was brilliant.
Before anyone says anything, no, I'm not a HIT jedi, lol. I just find his physique and posing to be spectacular. Very proportional.

Yeah that video pretty much shows arnold won IMO, and that video is very mentzer biased. Arnold was outclassed by mentzer on thighs and forearms...but who cares about those in 1980? Arnold outclassed mentzer on the bi's and chest, those were the body parts of the day.

The tide was changing in 80 to more lower body, but it by no means had changed yet. Arnolds height had a big influence as well, but not as much as arnolds influence on the judges! Mentzer was great, but he didnt "pop" as much as arnold on the major poses - and arnold was able to use his charisma and influence on the judges.

I used to agree with you, but the more i looked at the lineup the more i think arnold won fair and square. Nobody else had the "wow" factor of arnold. Arnold lost on some poses, thighs and abs especially, but he didnt lose those poses by much. Mentzer barely won a few poses, but was completely blew away on shots like the front double biceps and single arm biceps.

[Murdok1741]

Yeah that video pretty much shows arnold won IMO, and that video is very mentzer biased. Arnold was outclassed by mentzer on thighs and forearms...but who cares about those in 1980? Arnold outclassed mentzer on the bi's and chest, those were the body parts of the day.

The tide was changing in 80 to more lower body, but it by no means had changed yet. Arnolds height had a big influence as well, but not as much as arnolds influence on the judges! Mentzer was great, but he didnt "pop" as much as arnold on the major poses - and arnold was able to use his charisma and influence on the judges.

I used to agree with you, but the more i looked at the lineup the more i think arnold won fair and square. Nobody else had the "wow" factor of arnold. Arnold lost on some poses, thighs and abs especially, but he didnt lose those poses by much. Mentzer barely won a few poses, but was completely blew away on shots like the front double biceps and single arm biceps.

Haha, alright bro. To each his own.

[CapnPowerMonger]

Haha, alright bro. To each his own.

Your opinion is respected, and by no means unwarranted. It was a close contest.

[Murdok1741]

Your opinion is respected, and by no means unwarranted. It was a close contest.

Yea. I'm huge fan of both of their physiques. Arnold has some strong points, Mike Mentzer has some strong points (unfortunately, his mental health wasn't one of them ) but I'd prefer Mike Mentzer. Plus, he has that classic man mustache like Burt Reynolds and Tom Selleck.

[Bill_Loguidice]

Franco in 81' was a disgrace though. Padilla was so much better. Franco still had some wow factor with his back and chest, but his chest was flawed by gyno and his legs small due to the previous "worlds strongest man" injury. He should NOT have won.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one. Truly an argument could be made for Arnold winning in '80, as he was more ripped than usual, just smaller, but still bigger than most of the competition. Plus, he was Arnold. In '81 however, it was "just" Franco and he had obvious gyno, which just looked ridiculous and sported the bad leg. Other than being ripped, I just don't see how or why Franco won. He wasn't Arnold and there was no "need" for him to win and no way to justifiably shoe-horn him as the winner by hanging your hat on something (other than the definition). That would be the first, but certainly not the last time, that it was an absolute travesty of a decision in the Olympia. Certainly Haney, Yates, Coleman and Cutler lost at least once in their respective reigns when they won...

[Kylewu]

the "wow" factor? Definately not what Arnold had in 1980. I wasn't impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr3rz...eature=related (if anyone can imbed this, I'd appreciate it! )

This is a pretty awesome video, gets me pumped up for the gym. But just watch the video man, it's all there. 0:25 second mark, Mentzer's MM. I don't know about you guys, but the way the division in his pecs split up looks pretty damn amazing.
0:33 second mark, stomach vacuum. How many bodybuilders can pull that off? Zane and Corney I believe are the only other ones I can think of.
1:50 mark, another pose, that seems to be a variation on Oliva's pose, looks amazing. The V-taper and forearms are stunning here.

Those are the ones that stood out in particular. Arnold just wasn't up to par. It was rigged. Mentzer's posing, IMO, was brilliant.
Before anyone says anything, no, I'm not a HIT jedi, lol. I just find his physique and posing to be spectacular. Very proportional.

Pause it at :31 and you can clearly see Arnold was atleast worthy of winning. The best he's ever been? Hardly, but good enough to win? Sure was.

[30/7/66]

wtf are you on about

x2. i thought you were just curious on the abbreviation. the other guy must be on his period

[_XYDREX_]

the difference in training methods was the main reason for the rivalry. more to the point, that mentzer was insistive that it is the only way to train & everything else is flawed. in other words implying arnold's encyclopedia is good for trash.

Theres also a famous interview with dorian yates(2nd gen HIT): when asked what he thought about Arnold, he replied "Arnold who?". But to his credit went on to say that he respected what arnold did for the sport, but didnt believe in his training

this was due to arnold crtitisizing yates for not making many guest appearances, not over training styles.

I did a HIT training for arms once and it sucked. I only did 2 sets for bi's and tri's and during the exercise, it was intense. But 10 minutes later I couldnt even tell i worked arms.

it does take time to learn to go to total failure if youre not used to it. i used to do it exclusively, but more recently found better reponse with volume. i think a small proprtion of the population do respond well to hit all the time, but most wont since they pleateau within a few months. if u want to try it, give it 6-8 weeks.

As far as the comment about Dorians training being susceptible to injury is completely false. Dorian suffered every single one of his injuries in pre-contest prep, not during the offseason. He said himself he pushed himself too hard in contest prep which was a mistake, it has no bearing on the training style itself or its effectiveness, quite the contrary.

.

yes that is what he said, but in reference to 97 tri tear, & hoped ppl would assume the same for the rest. In 94 he injured his bi, shoulder & quad. They were not all precontest, but pretty much spread throughout the whole year. one of them only was close to contest.

is it that famous picture? im surprised no-one else has commentated

as far as i can remember, Arnold was allowed to compete in that olympia at very short notice, even though the stipulations of MrO require 6 months advance or something... Anyway Menzter was set to win that year or at least thought so and was pissed when arnold was let in... Then arnold said something about mentzers mouth being bigger than his belly (or something like that)

someone else please clairfy

main argument was over whether or not they should eliminate weight classes over 200 & under 200. once mike was pissed arnold added fuel to the fire with a few other things as well so mike found it harder to focus.

Yeah that video pretty much shows arnold won IMO, and that video is very mentzer biased. Arnold was outclassed by mentzer on thighs and forearms...but who cares about those in 1980? Arnold outclassed mentzer on the bi's and chest, those were the body parts of the day.

The tide was changing in 80 to more lower body, but it by no means had changed yet. Arnolds height had a big influence as well, but not as much as arnolds influence on the judges! Mentzer was great, but he didnt "pop" as much as arnold on the major poses - and arnold was able to use his charisma and influence on the judges.

I used to agree with you, but the more i looked at the lineup the more i think arnold won fair and square. Nobody else had the "wow" factor of arnold. Arnold lost on some poses, thighs and abs especially, but he didnt lose those poses by much. Mentzer barely won a few poses, but was completely blew away on shots like the front double biceps and single arm biceps.

yeh this O wasnt an obvious outrage like the 81. it was down to preferences but not a clear win/loss. mentzer was more complete & several guys had better legs, but arnold did have many shots where he does blow everyone away. u see his drop in mass mainly when he's relaxed only. however it was rigged that mentzer placed 5th, he should have been second. this was politics stemming from his claim that most supplements are useless & u need little protein. he should have kept this to himself if it worked for him, it was foolish to blow this horn as loud as he did, the wole industry was funded by supp sales & there wouldnt be an olympia contest for him to compete in if there were little/no supp sales.

[winston43]

not sure about the argument thing but Mentzer definitely did have a cool physique, freaky forearms lol



kind of off topic but all threads can use pictures

true mike had great arms and forearms but not enough taper and average if not weak chest . he wanted to pe a rational thinker and implement scientific theories in bodybuilding . was influenced by arthur jones first . high intensity low volume . some youngsters injured themselves trying this . arnold was not a worty winner in 1980 though but mike run after trouble .

[dom1987]

I dont understand why people think HIT will get you injured.

It is one of the safest way to train, because unlike most programs you only go to failure on 1 set while maintaining perfect form.

where in Arnolds encyclopaedia(even the beginner routine) he says you should go to failure on every set.

I think people have different opinions on the definition of 'training to failure'

where as people who say they are training to failure only go to about 90% of there maximum.

I'am referring to this method of HIT

[lee4]

what is it with reds and old threads?




...and i remember CLOUDSURFER! lol.

[roybatty6]

Mentzer may of won the 1980 Olympia if he shaved off the moustache.

[DYTrainer]

I dont understand why people think HIT will get you injured.

It is one of the safest way to train, because unlike most programs you only go to failure on 1 set while maintaining perfect form.

I agree 100%. Just looking around the gym and I don't see how more people aren't injured. Just watch someone bench and you can just see their shoulders getting destroyed, or barbell curls without a thought of what negative is, looks like their elbows and shoulders are going to get ripped out. People think lifting heavy weights causes injuries. However lifting heavy weights fast is what causes injuries. Most people are just concerned with moving as much weight as they can without any regard to form, range of motion and rep tempo ( weight monkeys). But if you try to talk to these people the majority scoff at HIT, so I just let them be and just laugh to myself as they look the same day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month and year-to-year.

[planes12]

I don't think I remember reading that. :/ At any rate, Mike Mentzer is an amazing poser. IMO, the best poser of any bodybuilder. Frank Zane would be second. Arnold 3rd. Ed Corney, tbh, I don't think is that great. The transitions are a bit lacking to me, and some of the stills are too exaggerated. Still good poser however.

Not sure I agree with Mike being a great poser. If you watch him in the 80 O, he keeps losing balance and his arms keep slipping off his hips on FLS poses.

[vin_diesel]

I remember reading years ago that the reason why there was tension between Arnold and Mike is that each time Mike was giving a seminar about his training method, people kept on asking if its so good why didnt Arnold ever use it? Mike was getting fed up with the same question, till one day he replied if Arnold used my method he would have been a lot better than he was. When Arnold heard this, apparently he weren't to best pleased!

Trying to find the link for you...

[Blacksmith80]

They both had huge ego/ were extremely ambicious/ were germanic breed, so its understandable. Mike was even bigger fanatic then Arnold, even out of bb lifestyle, he was really influenced by the literature of Friedrich Nietzsche.

[BartPimpson]

I remember reading years ago that the reason why there was tension between Arnold and Mike is that each time Mike was giving a seminar about his training method, people kept on asking if its so good why didnt Arnold ever use it? Mike was getting fed up with the same question, till one day he replied if Arnold used my method he would have been a lot better than he was. When Arnold heard this, apparently he weren't to best pleased!

Trying to find the link for you...

Let's remember that Arnold wasn't a big Hollywood star back in the day, so it probably would have been worried someone would replace him as the then-GOAT of bodybuilding.

[ZBlacktt]

Been a Star from the 70's to present.

[lancs_hotpot]

Arnold and Mentzer were in opposite training camps, HIT is like the opposite of the high volume workout of Arnold and the gold's gang. And yeah i think Mike was a bit taken aback when Arnold came out from no where in 1980 to win. So as competitors they were rivals, but unlike with Lou; it kind of went on after they had left the stage.

Theres also a famous interview with dorian yates(2nd gen HIT): when asked what he thought about Arnold, he replied "Arnold who?". But to his credit went on to say that he respected what arnold did for the sport, but didnt believe in his training

Do u know where i can find that interview?

[Blackout]

(Talking about 1-set to failure programs...)

If you look at the training programs of top physique competitors, you’ll discover
that nearly 100% of them use multiple sets on multiple exercises – usually two to three
exercises for three sets per exercise (not counting warm ups). Arnold Schwarzenegger
himself once said that back in his heyday, he and training partner Franco Columbo tried
these abbreviated training methods and the results were very negative, so they quickly
went back to multiple sets.

From another book I have.


And Mentzer alone in especially in cool lighting looked great. But standing next to Arnold on a stage he looked small.

[planes12]

Mike made astounding claims in his editorial in M&F back in the early 80's. He claimed HIT was revolutionary and would change bodybuilding. Joe rightly came back and said that not enough proof existed and that he maintained that the more classic method for development was better. His main point was that longer workouts
produced better quality muscle development and deeper tissue breakdown needed. Joe didn't completely disagree but didn't give Mike the due he thought he deserved. After the 80 O Mike made his final comments about his disapproval of the results and Joe's comments on his theories. This was in his final editorial. I give Joe credit for letting Mike ramble on in his last post as it was quite anti Joe and Arnold.

I was pissed at Mike for quitting as I thought he could have won some. I've stated this in the past, but I'll say it again. I thought Mike was railroaded in the 80 O when I first looked at the issue as I thought he was going to win. But if you look at the shots from the show Arnold still looked great. He was smaller but he still had it.

I wish someone who still has that issue would post the pics from the standings page they had. Arnold looked really good and Mike could have been 2nd and that was where I was pissed. I thought Mike should have placed higher.