Atlas Shrugs: Thousands Flee California

[Morbid_Mind]

While it has the sixth highest tax burden in the nation, according to the nonpartisan Tax Foundation, California is facing a breathtaking $40 billion budget deficit this year. This comes on the heels of a decade-long spending spree. Last year the state budget was $131 billion, up from $56 billion in 1998.

In 2000, according to the state's Department of Finance, about 150,000 people moved into California. But in the years that followed the in-migration slowed, and in 2005 it reversed, when a net 52,000 people moved out. In 2008, the outflow topped 135,000 people.

Consequently, Idaho, Utah and Wyoming all have unemployment rates around 5% at a time when California is suffering an unemployment rate of 9%. Californians are moving east and creating jobs in their new home states.

Over the past few years, we've witnessed the state government's response to the capital and entrepreneur flight out of our state: Taxes remain high, and lawmakers employ all the tricks in the book to produce "balanced" budgets from shifting expenses around to borrowing ever larger sums of money.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154816733469917.html

With a house purchase near Denver in the works, the 38-year-old engineering contractor plans to move his family 1,200 miles away from his home state's lemon groves, sunshine and beaches. For him, years of rising taxes, dead-end schools, unchecked illegal immigration and clogged traffic have robbed the Golden State of its allure.

The number of people leaving California for another state outstripped the number moving in from another state during the year ending on July 1, 2008. California lost a net total of 144,000 people during that period - more than any other state, according to census estimates. That is about equal to the population of Syracuse, N.Y.

The state with the next-highest net loss through migration between states was New York, which lost just over 126,000 residents.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/37...aPc:_Yyc:aUUsZ

The Arizona Department of Commerce announced an initiative Friday to lure companies away from California

http://www.sacbee.com/business/story/1530888.html

[Stizzel]

Socialism!

Sucks too because I really liked living in los angeles.

[Morbid_Mind]

Originally Posted by Stizzel

Socialism!

Sucks too because I really liked living in los angeles.

You mean people don't like living in high taxed areas?

[ripper6]

What isn't pointed out well or empahsized is that the ones leaving are TAXPAYERS. Also, thousands of businesses are moving out or chosing not to set up shop in CA. CA has the highest income taxes, highest sales taxes, highest gas taxes, highest housing costs, highest prison costs, etc., etc..

CA is loosing not just numbers, but the numbers who pay taxes. It has a $40 Billion deficit (10-15 $billion of which each year is spent on illegals) and, unlike the federal government, it can't print its own money. It is heading for bankruptcy fast.

[potatoe]

I predict an iron curtain will blockade California from the rest of the U.S.

[Stizzel]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

You mean people don't like living in high taxed areas?

Living in an area with a high tax rate is fine, as long as I'm not the one paying

[GetItBack]

I got out of there in 2004. The Mexican takeover of California is almost complete. My only problem is I still own a home there but lucky for me I have a renter.
Other than the cold winters, It can get down to 7 degrees, we've adjusted to Pennsylvania just fine. Cost of living is a lot less too.

[Morbid_Mind]

Video

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bes...ia.economy.cnn

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by potatoe

I predict an iron curtain will blockade California from the rest of the U.S.

As long as the Steel Curtain falls, the Iron Curtain can do what it wants.

I rooting for the Cards to win it this year.

[leafs43]

When Bush is gone are Californians going to blame Obama?

[Morbid_Mind]

Originally Posted by leafs43

When Bush is gone are Californians going to blame Obama?

Are they blaming Bush now? California is the bastion of American liberalism, nearly everything Obama proposes is already in place in California:

High taxes, pro-amnesty, "green" economy, bans on drilling, high emission standards, high gas taxes, massive entitlement spending, Draconian gun laws, anti-business climate, etc...

It's of no surprise that the chickens of Fabian socialism are coming home to roost and liberty and personal freedom trumps all.

[Futurama525]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

Are they blaming Bush now? California is the bastion of American liberalism, nearly everything Obama proposes is already in place in California:

High taxes, pro-amnesty, "green" economy, bans on drilling, high emission standards, high gas taxes, massive entitlement spending, Draconian gun laws, anti-business climate, etc...

It's of no surprise that the chickens of Fabian socialism are coming home to roost and liberty and personal freedom trumps all.

I always wanted to move to CA, especially for a medical MJ card, but after I saw their tax rates, yeah.. **** that lol.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

Are they blaming Bush now? California is the bastion of American liberalism, nearly everything Obama proposes is already in place in California:

High taxes, pro-amnesty, "green" economy, bans on drilling, high emission standards, high gas taxes, massive entitlement spending, Draconian gun laws, anti-business climate, etc...

It's of no surprise that the chickens of Fabian socialism are coming home to roost and liberty and personal freedom trumps all.

This is a good point.

If it has been shown that this style of government clearly is NOT working, why would we want to apply it on a national scale?

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

You mean people don't like living in high taxed areas?

Depends what the taxes are doing. The Europeans seem to be doing okay over there.

(OK, not Lithuania, et. all. But you know who I'm talking about.)

[Futurama525]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

This is a good point.

If it has been shown that this style of government clearly is NOT working, why would we want to apply it on a national scale?

lmfao the worst thing is that they aren't even trying to change anything. Instead of cutting spending or raising taxes (or both), they're trying to get a bailout from the federal government so they can continue to get free **** from other people's hard work.

[TheCon]

That sucks. I really liked growing up in the Bay Area. All i know is that I better get my refund check or i'm going to start a riot.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Originally Posted by StartTheMachine

Depends what the taxes are doing. The Europeans seem to be doing okay over there.

(OK, not Lithuania, et. all. But you know who I'm talking about.)

Haven't many of those countries (the UK, France, Germany etc.) been cutting back some with the liberal policies?

[Morbid_Mind]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

Haven't many of those countries (the UK, France, Germany etc.) been cutting back some with the liberal policies?

I think so. I remember reading even Sweden just got rid of their estate tax.

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

Haven't many of those countries (the UK, France, Germany etc.) been cutting back some with the liberal policies?

That's a very general claim, if you know what I mean. A very broad brush stroke.

[Germanic]

Good, just give it to the illegals, they can f*ck it up and live in a ****-hole. All the hard-working people can come to the East.

[IraHays]

It will end up like NYC.

Only really rich people and really poor people will be living there.

[Morbid_Mind]

Originally Posted by StartTheMachine

Depends what the taxes are doing. The Europeans seem to be doing okay over there.

(OK, not Lithuania, et. all. But you know who I'm talking about.)

Well, we're already spending more per person on health care than any other country in the world, yet all we hear is that our health care is terrible. The more tax dollars we use on it, the worse it seems to get.

I wouldn't say that the European countries are doing great. Many of them have extrememly high costs of living and have a rather low GDP per capita and have seen a decrease in economic expansion.

A majority of the OECD countries have cut a number of their tax rates in the past decade and are reaping the rewards from it

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by Germanic

Good, just give it to the illegals, they can f*ck it up and live in a ****-hole. All the hard-working people can come to the East.

You saying undocumented workers aren't hard-working?

[Morbid_Mind]

Originally Posted by StartTheMachine

You saying undocumented workers aren't hard-working?

Whether or not they're hard working is not the question. The fact is, they are using government programs and do not pay taxes. Though it should be noted that the IRS will allow illegals to pay taxes and will not report the info to ICE.

[Illiad]

Originally Posted by ripper6

What isn't pointed out well or empahsized is that the ones leaving are TAXPAYERS. Also, thousands of businesses are moving out or chosing not to set up shop in CA. CA has the highest income taxes, highest sales taxes, highest gas taxes, highest housing costs, highest prison costs, etc., etc..

CA is loosing not just numbers, but the numbers who pay taxes. It has a $40 Billion deficit (10-15 $billion of which each year is spent on illegals) and, unlike the federal government, it can't print its own money. It is heading for bankruptcy fast.

The Federal Government dosen't print it's own money. They borrow from the Federal Reserve which is about as 'Federal' as Federal Express.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Originally Posted by StartTheMachine

That's a very general claim, if you know what I mean. A very broad brush stroke.

I know, it was meant to be broad, because I can't recall any of the specific policy changes I'm thinking of, but, over time, reading about politics across the pond, I've garnered a general feeling that they are moving away from the left.

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

Well, we're already spending more per person on health care than any other country in the world, yet all we hear is that our health care is terrible. The more tax dollars we use on it, the worse it seems to get.

I really don't know what you're saying here. Our healthcare expenditure mostly isn't paid in tax dollars, it's paid to private insurance companies.

I wouldn't say that the European countries are doing great. Many of them have extrememly high costs of living and have a rather low GDP per capita and have seen a decrease in economic expansion.

I didn't say they were all doing great, I was just refuting the point that heavily taxed areas are always places people don't want to live.

Take some of the Scandinavian countries, for example. Each of them is consistently ranked very highly by the U.N. as being some of the best places to live. Yet, the personal income taxes for Sweden, Norway, and Denmark are as high as 56, 51.3, and 59%, respectively.

Again, my argument isn't that it's always better to have higher taxes or anything like that. I'm just against the broad brush stroking.

[StartTheMachine]

Originally Posted by Morbid_Mind

Whether or not they're hard working is not the question. The fact is, they are using government programs and do not pay taxes. Though it should be noted that the IRS will allow illegals to pay taxes and will not report the info to ICE.

Then the solution would be to legalize them all.

edit: Gotta go to class, guys. I'll be back to check up on this here thread later in the evening.

[Germanic]

Originally Posted by StartTheMachine

You saying illegal aliens aren't hard-working?

I'm saying illegal aliens are criminals that suck money from our country like leeches and send it to Mexico, they don't pay taxes and they don't give a **** about our laws.

[Bujumbles]

welcome to mexifornia