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  1. #1
    Registered User HardcorSancez's Avatar
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    Don't eat carbs and fats in the same meal?

    A little confused on mixing carbs and fats in the same meal. I usually have protein and carbs in everymeal and then add fats to 2 of them. Should I cut out the carbs in those 2 meals?
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    Registered User polinutrigirl's Avatar
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    You should have low carbs in general. Our bodies were designed to eat fat and protein primarily. See Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Another helpful read is Mark's Daily Apple blog: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
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    Originally Posted by polinutrigirl View Post
    You should have low carbs in general. Our bodies were designed to eat fat and protein primarily. See Gary Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Another helpful read is Mark's Daily Apple blog: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/
    Not everyone needs to follow a low carb diet. Each meal you eat should consist of protein, a clean carb and healthy fats...it's called balance.
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by HardcorSancez View Post
    A little confused on mixing carbs and fats in the same meal. I usually have protein and carbs in everymeal and then add fats to 2 of them. Should I cut out the carbs in those 2 meals?
    Hey hun.

    Generally, it's better to keep your starchy carbs and fats in separate meals. Stick to carbs and protein in your earlier meals, and fats in your later meals. Fibrous carbs (fruits, veggies) can be eaten with fat, just not things like potatoes, oatmeal, rice, quinoa, etc.
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    The only time I avoid mixing carbs and fats is in my post workout meal. Other than that, I make sure I eat protein, carbs & fats in every meal.
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    Not everyone needs to follow a low carb diet. Each meal you eat should consist of protein, a clean carb and healthy fats...it's called balance.
    Agreed.
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    Originally Posted by heidismommy View Post
    Agreed.
    x 2
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    Unplug and breathe kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fitlover View Post
    Hey hun.

    Generally, it's better to keep your starchy carbs and fats in separate meals. Stick to carbs and protein in your earlier meals, and fats in your later meals. Fibrous carbs (fruits, veggies) can be eaten with fat, just not things like potatoes, oatmeal, rice, quinoa, etc.
    I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not true!!
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  9. #9
    Food?? Where?? twinnett's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not true!!
    Exactly...another bodybuilding myth...like you CAN'T eat after 6 or CAN'T cut while eating fruit or dairy
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  10. #10
    Unplug and breathe kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by twinnett View Post
    Exactly...another bodybuilding myth...like you CAN'T eat after 6 or CAN'T cut while eating fruit or dairy
    Exactly...too many misconceptions on this board...this is why people get so confused!!

    As long as you're eating your daily macros I don't care if your last meal is after midnight. (and it includes carbs and fat!!) Eat your protein, carbs and fats with each meal throughout your day and that's all you need to do...it's as simple as that.
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  11. #11
    Registered User ethereality's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fitlover View Post
    Hey hun.

    Generally, it's better to keep your starchy carbs and fats in separate meals. Stick to carbs and protein in your earlier meals, and fats in your later meals. Fibrous carbs (fruits, veggies) can be eaten with fat, just not things like potatoes, oatmeal, rice, quinoa, etc.
    If you think about this another way --- fats will slow the release of the starchy carbs into the body, which isn't neccessarily a bad thing....

    I agree that overall balance is more important than separating certain macronutrients.
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  12. #12
    Registered User HardcorSancez's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, I never had a problem with mixing them before. I had read a couple posts about and was confused! thanks
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  13. #13
    orthorexic JVo's Avatar
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    Some people say that separating carbs and fats improves weight loss - others say to combine them.

    This article on carb cycling encourages keeping them separate:
    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_..._cycling_codex
    I believe this is the advice of John Berardi, who speaks out on bodybuilding nutrition.

    I originally read "Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle", which said to combine protein, fats, and carbs together in every meal...then I read this..so, who the hell knows? I'm sure you can have successful results either way.
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    I personally have never had a problem mixing carbs, fats and proteins and having great results.

    For instance..I would have egg whites, oatmeal and flax oil for my first meal...that combination works great for me...
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    Keep 'em separate

    Originally Posted by HardcorSancez View Post
    A little confused on mixing carbs and fats in the same meal. I usually have protein and carbs in everymeal and then add fats to 2 of them. Should I cut out the carbs in those 2 meals?
    It seems everyone has an opinion but here is info that I found helpful that is for keeping starchy/sugar carbs and fats separate:

    From www[dot]metaboliceffect[dot]com/worst-food-combination-for-weight-loss/
    Jade Teta ND, CSCS

    There is an argument that is increasingly being made, that is fat cannot store fat. While we agree carbs are the biggest issue when it comes to reaching your fat loss goals, fat DOES store fat. When you think about fat loss many say it is all about hormones, and others claim it is all about calories. Both are true. Fat is rich in calories, AND it impacts hormones that signal fat storage, but things really go wrong when fat and carbs find themselves mixed together.Food Combining

    The idea that fat does not store fat is an old argument. It is the basis of one of the most popular diet books ever, The Atkin’s Diet. This idea comes from the fact that fat, by itself, has little impact on the major fat storing hormone insulin. This is true….kinda…..we will get to that in a minute. It also makes the assumption that insulin is the ONLY fat storing hormone and that calories don’t matter at all. While we would agree hormones are the drivers of how much we eat, what we desire to eat, and whether that fuel is stored as glycogen, muscle, or fat, to say calories don’t matter is simply not true. What many also do not realize is that there are other hormones that store fat besides insulin.

    Review of insulin

    Insulin is a fat storing hormone because it increases the major fat storing enzyme in the body called lipoprotein lipase (LPL). It also does two other nasty things that make fat loss very difficult when it is around in larger amounts: decrease hormone sensitive lipase (HSL) the major fat burning enzyme AND slow fat oxidation by suppression of CPT-1 (the rate limiting step in fat burning).

    So, decrease insulin and fat storage is slowed while fat release and burning is sped up. You can decrease insulin by decreasing calories (which often results in severe compensatory eating reactions leading to yo-yo dieting) or by decreasing carbs. Since carbs are the major promoter of insulin, many people simply say cut carbs and that’s that. This is where those who subscribe to the “fat can’t make you fat” stop their story.

    3 fat storing hormones you probably never heard of

    What many fail to realize is there are at least 3 other fat storing hormones and probably more we will find out about at some point. One of them is called acylation stimulating protein (ASP). Where insulin is induced by carbs, ASP is induced by fat (this is not good news for those who say you can’t get fat eating fat). AND, in an unfortunate fat storing feedback mechanism, both ASP and insulin stimulate the secretion of each other. So, in an indirect way, fat does stimulate insulin & insulin stimulates a fat storing helper ASP.

    The third fat storing hormone is a gut produced signaling molecule called glucose-dependent insulinotrophic peptide (GIP). GIP is induced by carbs & fat and to a much lesser extent protein and fiber. GIP has its own fat storing action on LPL AND causes more insulin to be released (here again fat can result in indirect insulin secretion).

    The hunger hormone ghrelin (the intermittent fasting crowd is likely going to dislike me for this one) is also a fat storing hormone. Ghrelin is released when we forgo food. Not only does it induce hunger AND cravings for sugary fatty and salty foods, but it also increases the action of LPL and even results in more LPL being made so that when you do eat……you get fatter quicker. This is because ghrelin increases the mRNA expression of LPL.

    Ghrelin should probably be called the yo-yo weight gain hormone, and those who practice eating less and exercising more are unwittingly raising their ghrelin and fat storing potential. The fact that ghrelin has some positive effects, like raising HGH, does not change these negative consequences. If and when fasters and low calorie dieters resume normal eating, fat gain comes and comes quickly. And this is largely due to ghrelin (Ever meet anyone coming off strict diet restriction and getting fat quick? That is ghrelin at work).

    The worst fat storing combination (fat & starch/sugar)

    So, what does all this mean? It means both carbs AND fat cause fat gain, and when they are combined together it is far worse than eating them alone.

    Glucose-dependent insulinotrophic peptide (GIP):

    Here is how the story goes: eat carbs and you release insulin…….you also release GIP which means a double hit on LPL (both insulin and GIP increase LPL’s fat storing action). BUT, GIP also causes the release of insulin itself. In fact, GIP may be more important than even glucose in raising insulin (this is one of the reason the same amount of glucose given directly into a vein causes less insulin secretion than if it were eaten).

    One thing to know about GIP is that its fat storing potential is really most sensitive to glucose. In other words, fat releases GIP but it appears the potent fat storing activity of GIP kicks in strongly only with hyperglycemia (high blood sugar). So, fat and carbs together cause more GIP release and greater fat storing activity than either alone.

    At this point you may be a little bit confused so here is the story for GIP in bullets:

    Carbs Alone= insulin= fat storing
    Carbs Alone= GIP= Insulin= Fat storing
    Fat Alone= GIP without hyperglycemia= a little insulin= Little fat storage
    Fat with carbs= GIP plus hyperglycemia= excessive insulin= excessive fat storing
    Aceylation Stimulating Protein (ASP):

    ASP is stimulated directly by fat. It is stimulated indirectly by carbs because insulin stimulates ASP as well, and then ASP returns the favor by stimulating insulin. Interestingly for women, progesterone is a stimulator of ASP as well which is useful information for menstrating females who might want to decrease their fat and carb intake during the luteal phase of their cycle (menstrual phase occurring between ovulation and onset of menses). Here is the story of ASP in bullets:

    Carbs Alone= insulin= ASP= Fat storing
    Fat Alone= ASP= Fat Storage
    ASP= insulin= Fat Storage
    Fat with carbs= Double ASP= double insulin= excessive fat storage from independent action of both ASP & insulin
    progesterone= ASP= fat storage
    Ghrelin

    Ghrelin is a hunger hormone released from the stomach that travels to the brain and induces hunger. Ghrelin has also been shown to do a few other things not beneficial to dieters. Ghrelin causes the brain to crave sugary, salty, and fatty foods, so is also implicated in cravings.

    Ghrelin also makes us more efficient at storing fat once we do eat. This is because ghrelin stimulates messenger RNA (mRNA) activity of the fat storing hormone LPL. For those who are not biochemists, mRNA is how the genes replicate the proteins they encode for. So, mRNA makes proteins, and the more mRNA activity you have, the more protein you make.

    In the case of ghrelin, it stimulates the mRNA to make more LPL (the major fat sotring enzyme), and therefore makes you far more likely to store fat quickly and efficiently once you resume eating. So dieters and fasters beware. Ghrelin also directly stimulates LPL activity :-(. While ghrelin does have some beneficial effects, it may elevate HGH, we regard ghrelin as largely negative for your fat burning goals.

    Final thoughts

    It is important to put all of this stuff in context. Fat loss is not just about hormones, and it is not just about calories. It is about both. It is also about the compensatory reactions created that lead to sustainable lifestyle changes or short term dieting & weight regain.

    The other thing to realize is that we are all different, so all of this information cannot simply be stated as true for everyone. There are those who can fast and not have any negative impact from ghrelin and get and stay extremely lean. There are those who can eat doughnuts and burgers and not have any seeming negative fat storing impact from GIP and ASP. We would say these types are in the extreme minority.

    One question that nags many in the nutrition world is the glycemic index issue. They often wonder how this relates to the fact that fat slows the release of sugar into the blood down and therefore lowers the glycemic index. This is true and is useful to know especially for those who are extremely carb sensitive.

    So, yes it is true fat added to a simple sugar will lower the speed at which blood glucose rises, and this is especially important for the very insulin resistant and diabetic. The point is the body will still need to deal with the entire glucose load and fat load in the food. And, due to all the hormonal effects mentioned above, this creates a perfect fat string atomic bomb. So, it may be more beneficial to do things this way for someone who is diabetic, but it is not ideal and will still likely make you extremely fat if done on a regular basis.

    So, our advice after considering all this information is the following:

    Both fat and carb have fat storing potential through several mechanisms.
    Choose fat over starch/sugar when given a choice. In other words, choose bacon for breakfast over corn flakes.
    Never combine fat and sugar/starch (doughnuts, pizza, burgers, chips and guacomole, granola, cereal and whole milk, full fat yogurt and sweet preserves, etc.).
    Very high fiber carbs with low starch are not usually an issue, although they can be for some (celery and peanut butter, healthy hemp bread and avocado, mixed nuts, etc.).
    If you are extremely insulin resistant or diabetic and you must do simple carbs, then you may want to add fat. This may save you from having to have a leg amputated one day, but it wont make you thin.
    Going without food raises ghrelin and enhances your ability to store fat later so be careful when fasting or doing extreme diets.
    Protein and fiber have minimal impact on fat storing hormones (the insulin protein issue can be complicated and a topic for another blog) and satiate you. And both activate GLP-1 which is GIPs alter ego.
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    Originally Posted by mandapanda77 View Post
    It seems everyone has an opinion but here is info that I found helpful that is for keeping starchy/sugar carbs and fats separate:

    From www[dot]metaboliceffect[dot]com/worst-food-combination-for-weight-loss/
    Jade Teta ND, CSCS

    ...
    If you are extremely insulin resistant or diabetic and you must do simple carbs, then you may want to add fat. This may save you from having to have a leg amputated one day, but it wont make you thin.
    Going without food raises ghrelin and enhances your ability to store fat later so be careful when fasting or doing extreme diets.
    Protein and fiber have minimal impact on fat storing hormones (the insulin protein issue can be complicated and a topic for another blog) and satiate you. And both activate GLP-1 which is GIPs alter ego.
    TL;DR - Simple Carbs will spike your in insulin; insulin is a fat storing hormone; avoid having simple carbs (sugars) and fats in the same meal (avoid simple carbs all together?)
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    gah .there is so much misinformation out there. Read Alan Aragon's stuff for some sense. Better yet, do what your forebears did and eat balanced meals.
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    Registered User amandinhalinda's Avatar
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    Hey girls! What about oat meal + fruit? too many carbs as pre-workout meal?
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    hiyo Babygirl95's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by amandinhalinda View Post
    Hey girls! What about oat meal + fruit? too many carbs as pre-workout meal?
    Carbs give you energy for your workout I don't see why it's too many carbs, but I would avoid working out right after since oatmeal takes a bit of time to digest!
    Bulking & Lifting :)
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