ATD can cause boldenone positive

[Patrick Arnold]

This latest study shows that ATD shares similar metabolites with boldenone. This has implications with athletes who are subject to doping testing

----------------

Rapid Commun Mass Spectrom. 2009 Jan 30;23(2):207-218. Links
Metabolism of androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione and detection by gas chromatography/mass spectrometry in doping control.Parr MK, Fu?h?ller G, Schl?rer N, Opfermann G, Piper T, Rodchenkov G, Sch?nzer W.
Center for Preventive Doping Research, Institute of Biochemistry, German Sport University Cologne, Cologne, Germany.

The urinary metabolism of the irreversible aromatase inhibitor androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione was investigated. It is mainly excreted unchanged and as its 17beta-hydroxy analogue. For confirmation, 17beta-hydroxyandrosta-1,4,6-trien-3-one was synthesized and characterized by nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) in addition to the parent compound. In addition, several reduced metabolites were detected in the post-administration urines, namely 17beta-hydroxyandrosta-1,4-dien-3-one (boldenone), 17beta-hydroxy-5beta-androst-1-en-3-one (boldenone metabolite), 17beta-hydroxyandrosta-4,6-dien-3-one, and androsta-4,6-diene-3,17-dione. The identification was performed by comparison of the metabolites with reference material utilizing gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) of the underivatized compounds and GC/MS and GC/tandem mass spectrometry (MS/MS) of their trimethylsilyl (TMS) derivatives. Alterations in the steroid profile were also observed, most obviously in the androsterone/testosterone ratio. Even if not explicitly listed, androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione is classified as a prohibited substance in sports by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) due to its aromatase-inhibiting properties. In 2006 three samples from human routine sports doping control tested positive for metabolites of androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione. The samples were initially found suspicious for the boldenone metabolite 17beta-hydroxy-5beta-androst-1-en-3-one. Since metabolites of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione were also present in the urine samples, it is presumed that these findings were due to the administration of a product like 'Novedex Xtreme', which could be easily obtained from the sport supplement market. Copyright (c) 2008 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.

PMID: 19089863 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[Rodzilla]

saved

[SIRT1]

[BreakingPoint8]

Never a dull moment with this man. Good Look Pat.

[sonicology]

It may be a new study, but this is old news; I remember hearing ATD could cause a false positive for boldenone several years ago now.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by sonicology

It may be a new study, but this is old news; I remember hearing ATD could cause a false positive for boldenone several years ago now.

actually now that you mention it i think i remember that too

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by BreakingPoint8

Never a dull moment with this man. Good Look Pat.

there is nothing controversial about this thread so i dunno where you are going

[Weakestlink]

so... bold+ATD, FTW???

[VaughnTrue]

Originally Posted by Weakestlink

so... bold+ATD, FTW???

lol

[getbustered]

Originally Posted by Weakestlink

so... bold+ATD, FTW???

lol, if you think they might test you.

[Patrick Arnold]

this thread was really meant for brain dead baseball players and their trainers

[Weakestlink]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

this thread was really meant for brain dead baseball players and their trainers

lmao!!!

[MindZiper]

quick question.

6-oxo is banned by the anti doping agency, but ATD isn't (AFAIK)

but why is one banned and the other one isnt?
Both basically do the same thing, only that 6-oxo uses another quemical to get the deed done.

[wutsmyname]

Interesting. I remember reading about Antonio Silvas suspension a while ago, he tested positive for Boldenone while he claimed that he was only using Novedex XT.

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...7422&zoneid=13

[SIRT1]

Originally Posted by MiniZiper

quick question.

6-oxo is banned, but ATD isn't (AFAIK)

but why is one banned and the other one isnt?
Both basically do the same thing, only that 6-oxo uses another quemical to get the deed done.

6-oxo is banned

[MindZiper]

Originally Posted by SIRT1

6-oxo is banned

by the anti doping agency.

[deserusan]

Originally Posted by MiniZiper

6-oxo is banned by the anti doping agency, but ATD isn't (AFAIK)

All aromatase inhibitors are so by default ATD is. It's part of the reason why the front of a Novedex XT bottle says "AROMATASE INHIBITOR" and there a big warning about using it if you are tested. 6-Bromo, 6-OXO, ATD, etc all fall under that. Athletes need to take a little bit of responsibility for their actions and stop blaming OTC supplements.

[Odisious]

PA,
why don't you manipulate an ATD that gives the same results as bold since it gives a false possitive...you're the only one on this planet that could find the simularity and turn it into an anabolic...(and nobody say, "tThere already is one, 6-oxo." 6-oxo is awesome but still no 1-AD.)

[factotum]

So people using ATD and then get subsequent blood tests may have a spuriously high Test figure?

[Cloud Strife]

Originally Posted by wanderlei

So people using ATD and then get subsequent blood tests may have a spuriously high Test figure?

The test would be positive for boldenone.

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by MiniZiper

quick question.

6-oxo is banned by the anti doping agency, but ATD isn't (AFAIK)

but why is one banned and the other one isnt?
Both basically do the same thing, only that 6-oxo uses another quemical to get the deed done.

they are both banned. I am not sure if ATD is explicitly listed like 6-oxo is though

[factotum]

Originally Posted by Cloud Strife

The test would be positive for boldenone.

Understood. But I'm wondering if the Test levels people get following PCT with ATD are somewhat skewed as a result of the aforementioned bold positive?

[Patrick Arnold]

Originally Posted by wanderlei

Understood. But I'm wondering if the Test levels people get following PCT with ATD are somewhat skewed as a result of the aforementioned bold positive?

boldenone should not be confused with testosterone on an assay.

I am not so sure about 4,6-androstadiene-17b-ol-3-one however, which from the description of ATD's metabolism should be a significant metabolite formed

[rpen22]

Originally Posted by wanderlei

So people using ATD and then get subsequent blood tests may have a spuriously high Test figure?

Something to think about:

Steroids. 1980 Dec;36(6):717-21.Links

Immunological interference of the synthetic aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) and its metabolite(s) in the radioimmunoassay for testosterone.

Donaldson MD, Forest MG.

Radioimmunoassay (RIA) for testosterone (T) in unchromatographed plasma extracts from ATD-treated rats gave spuriously high values for T. Cross-reaction and chromatographic studies subsequently showed that ATD and, to a much greater extent, its metabolite(s) were responsible for this overestimation. Celite column chromatography proved to be an effective way of separating T from ATD and its product(s) of metabolism.

[sirlordford]

Another athlete is claiming ATD caused a false positive.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/silva-sues-csac-15763

[Cloud Strife]

Since it's boldenone that would be +ve on a test, is it the same detection time (up to 5 months) that you would have with the intramuscular injections or a drug like EQ?

Also, do you reckon that blood and urine detection times would differ for boldenone or would it be the exact same?

[nni]

wow, how did i miss this thread. kind of ironic now, dont you think?

[Yates Row T]

This is old news i knew of this about 2 years ago, maybe u guys did as well and are just bringing it up bc of the recent problem with 6-oxo

[DR_P]

Originally Posted by rpen22

Something to think about:

Steroids. 1980 Dec;36(6):717-21.Links

Immunological interference of the synthetic aromatase inhibitor 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) and its metabolite(s) in the radioimmunoassay for testosterone.

Donaldson MD, Forest MG.

Radioimmunoassay (RIA) for testosterone (T) in unchromatographed plasma extracts from ATD-treated rats gave spuriously high values for T. Cross-reaction and chromatographic studies subsequently showed that ATD and, to a much greater extent, its metabolite(s) were responsible for this overestimation. Celite column chromatography proved to be an effective way of separating T from ATD and its product(s) of metabolism.

following questions:

1. would that interference of ATD (and its metabolites) with testosterone essay also explain very high increases of DHT found in people taking ATD?

2. what is the half-time of ATD and its metabolites and would a distance of 12 h between last dose of ATD and bloodtest still cause the above mentioned interference?

3. Does that interference apply to total and free test essays equally?

reps for anybody that can help to answer any of these questions!

[NJPump]

Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

this thread was really meant for brain dead baseball players and their trainers

lmfao...nice.

maybe atd+bold would be a nice stack. unless you get tested.