Pro-Hormone Guide for Noobies

Jigsaw-Man · 01-07-2009, 07:25 PM

I was browsing the net looking for information on Methylated Pro-Hormone/Designer Steroids and I came across this very informative article. I wanted to share it with the board because it answered alot of questions for me and I'm sure it will for you. It's a lengthy read but entertaining and easy to understand.

I also want to give credit to the guy who wrote it "Makavali" on T-Nation.

He abbreviates alot of terms so I'll spell them out:
AAS - Anabolic Androgenic Steroids
DS - Designer Steroids
PH - Pro Hormones
AI - Aromatase Inhibitors
SERM - Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator
PCT - Post Cycle Therapy (Supplements you use to protect yourself from side effects)
ED - Everyday
EOD - Every Other Day

The usual stuff:

- You should be at least 21. No sense messing up your endocrine system, seeing as for all intents and purposes, PH's are steroids.
- You should have training and nutrition under your belt. Like AAS, these compounds are NOT a magic pill.

Just popping a few capsules a day won't net any magic results, but training hard, eating right and popping these pills can help you gain a few more pounds than you normally might.
- If you have access to AAS, use the AAS. Better gains, less (negative) sides.

I'm a 19 year old guy who cant put on weight...

Stop. Notice your age. In mathematical terms it looks like this:
19 < 21 = NO PH's
Eat more. Sleep More. You will be able to gain weight. But pro-hormones may dramatically affect your body's ability to produce and utilize testosterone in the future. Pro-hormones will act in a manner not unlike AAS, and will produce the same negative sides (with a few bonus negative sides thrown in for fun).

What is a PH?

A pro-hormone is a substance that is a precursor to a hormone, usually having minimal hormonal effect by itself. The term has been used in medical science since the middle of the 20th century. Examples of natural, human pro-hormones include pro-insulin and pro-opiomelanocortin.

How does this help me, the bodybuilder?

Well, when Anabolic Steroids were made illegal, many supplement companies made the move to circumvent this by creating precursors to a common steroids (like good old Testosterone). Even Biotest did this, and released the product known as MAG-10:

Sweet! Where do I get this stuff?

Here's the thing... you can't. Not the good stuff anyway. In 2004, Premier Warlord George W. Bush signed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 which made AAS and pro-hormones illegal. Unfortunately, a lot of the world has this idea that the FDA knows what they're doing... so a lot of other countries have banned them too.

What?! Then why the hell did you made this thread you bastard?

Well here's the thing: the ban only lists specific pro-hormones. Supplement companies are trying to keep one step ahead by creating different pro-hormones and of course - designer steroids. These are usually methylated steroids that have flown under the radar.

Some examples are:

- Epistane (also known as Havoc)
- Superdrol/Masterdrol
- Help me out guys, list some more!

This sounds too good to be true... whats the catch?

There's a few:

1. A lot of these aren't likely to be legal for too long.
2. Pro-hormones haven't been tested as well as regular steroids. Simply put, we know about most (if not all) the side effects of AAS. We don't know much about pro-hormones.
3. They are almost ALWAYS methylated steroids (like Epistane) which will be hard on the liver.
4. Gains are actually better with AAS.

Then wouldn't AAS be a better option?

Yes. Unfortunately, not everyone has access to a supplier and for them, pro-hormones may well be the only choice.

Will I still need a PCT? And what is a PCT?

Post Cycle Therapy. A necessary part of hormone manipulation, which allows your body to return to its normal levels. Any large amount of exogenous testosterone will result in some form of shutdown, and you need to get your balls back in action! Most people will recommend Nolvadex run at 40/40/20 or something similar. Each case is different, and it's up to you to do the research.

Most people will recommend Tamoxifen as part of your PCT, but it will vary from product to product. The usual PCT will consist of:

Week 1: 40mg Tamoxifen ED
Week 2: 40mg Tamoxifen ED
Week 3: 20mg Tamoxifen ED

Plus assorted cycle support products, such as Himalaya's Liv 52.

So is it cool to stack Superdrol, Pheraplex and Trenadrol as my first stack?

No with a side of possibly. Generally its better to try running a non methylated pro-hormones first, and then step up to the methylated compounds second, due to the fact they're harder on the body/liver than the non methyl's. "Bridging" methyl's (running one into the other) is in a quick phrase, somewhat nuts.

It's an all out assault that's usually attempted by someone with some decent pro-hormone experience under his belt. Most people will tell you NOT to run two methyl's at one time, as it is a great way to kill off your liver.

If I take more of these than recommended will I have a heart attack?

Probably not, however as pro-hormones are relatively untested, it is suggested people start small and work up to a level that they feel comfortable with.

You could take twice the dosage, in theory but depending on the product that might just land you in the hospital. The effects WILL NOT double if you double the dose, you reach a point of diminishing returns where your body literally cannot process the amount of material you've ingested.

Most likely your sides will double, meaning you'll earn a neato nickname like "Pizza Face" or "The Pillsbury Dough Boy" from increased skin oil or water retention respectively. For a first time out you should read the back of the bottle and stick to those parameters.

It is generally recommended to take the capsules will some sort of fat. One option is to down Fish Oil capsules (or Flameout) with each dose.

Will this show up in a drug test?

Yes and no. If you're being tested for anabolic steroids, then yes, they will show up. If you're being drug tested for a job odds are they're looking for narcotics, hallucinogens, and most importantly weed.

How much/What do I have to eat?

Everyone is different. There's a section called 'Supplements & Nutrition'. Post there. More importantly, what are you doing this cycle for? Are you cutting or bulking? That all factors into diet requirements.

I'm going to go out partying with my friends and knock back a few. Is it cool to drink on these?

HELL NO. If you're running a methylated cycle you liver is already taking a pretty beating, adding alcohol to that mix is NOT a good way to go. Not to mention the fact that alcohol basically stops protein synthesis entirely, which negates even taking the pro-hormones (or AAS) in the first place.

While non-methyl cycles are easier on the liver drinking alcohol is a great way to stuff up your diet and reduce your gains.

So I finished my cycle, can I start one tomorrow?

No.

Minimum time frame between cycles: Cycle + PCT + "Normalization Period" = Ready for your next cycle. What the hell is a normalization period? It's however long your body needs to get back to where it was hormonally before you overloaded it with pro-hormones on cycle and then with anti-estrogen's in PCT.

Your body will also use this period of time to do a little house cleaning on your cell receptors in your body making the next cycle as effective as the last one. The normal time will be at least the length of your PCT.

*********************************************

Pro-hormone "Traits"

The difference between "wet" and "dry" steroids/phs is water retention. Water retention is caused by estrogen conversion through aromatase.

WET:
- M1,4ADD
- Pheraplex
- M1T (and subsequent legal variants/clones)
- *Superdrol

DRY:
- Bold (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning)
- Epistane (AKA Havoc)
- Tren
- *Superdrol
- Halodrol
- Winztrol (banned?)
- Furazadrol
- Prop

STRENGTH:
- Tren (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- Superdrol
- M1T(and legal clones)
- Pheraplex and clones (Being reviewed by DEA for possible banning as we speak)
- M14ADD

Pro-hormone Classification

Steroids are classified under 2 categories. Class I has a strong binding to the androgen receptor. Class II does not bind to the androgen receptors, rather it works through other means in the body.

Cliff's notes of the above statement:

Class I = binds to androgen receptor
Class II = does not

These pro-hormone classifications are based on their steroid counterparts. If there are any revisions needed PLEASE post so below. If that goes unnoticed, PM me.

Class I

Boldenone based - 1,4AD & Bold
Progestin based - (similar to trenbolone) - Trenadrol & Trenaplex
Dienolone based - (again similar to tren) - Mdien
Mepitiostane (Thioderon) based - Epistane & Clones (like Havoc & so on so forth)
Desoxymethyltestosterone/DMT (Madol) based phs - Pheraplex & clones
Testosterone
DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) based phs - M5AA

Class II

Masteron (Dromostanolone) based - Superdrol & Clones
Oral Turinabol (Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone) based - Halodrol & Clones
Dianabol (methandrostenolone) based - M1,4ADD, M1T, 1-T, Methyl XT
Winstrol (stanozolol) based - Winztrol, Orastan-A, Furaguno, etc
Furazabol (miotolan) based - Furazadrol etc
Progesterone based - Revolt, Propadrol, Max LMG
Clostebol based - Chlorodrol, Oxyguno
4-AD

Not Pro-hormones...

AMS's (Advanced Muscle Science) products - test boosters
Testabolan is not a prohormone, it is an ecdysterone, tribulus, oglio peptide product.
Superdrol NG - Prasterone = DHEA, Methyl Xanthine = Caffine, Aprodine HCL = Pseudoephedrine Hydrochloride, ATD - test booster/aromatase inhibitor

I would like to add that Mass Tabs is a prosteroid - 2a, 17a-dimethyl 17b-hydroxy 5a-androstan-1-ene-3-one however since its close to about 3-4 steroids/other prohormone compounds out there, I can't classify it. I would guess its a class II though.

Stacking

If you plan on stacking two pro-hormones at the same time, the best combination are class I mixed with a class II. For example SD/Bold, Halo/Tren, M1T/Prop, and so on...

Here's why:
When you take a class I/class I stack, you're theoretically limiting your body's ability to suck up the little steroid molecules you're pumping into it. Think of it like a burger joint parking lot at lunchtime. There are no parking spots available, and you're stuck lying in line wait for a spot to open up.

However, with a class I/class II combination while one pro-hormone floats around binding to the androgen receptor, the other little guy is busy attaching itself to other parts of the body to encourage growth

Jigsaw-Man · 01-07-2009, 08:25 PM

bump

Fitzwell · 01-07-2009, 08:34 PM

Good article man, that cleared up a lot of confusion that I had.

Jigsaw-Man · 01-07-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitzwell

Good article man, that cleared up a lot of confusion that I had.

Thanks, it did me too so I thought I'd post it. I'm hoping it stays bumped b/c there are so many PH noobs (including myself) on the boards that need simple straight answers.

Maybe bb.com will do us a favor and make this a temporary sticky.

test_titan92 · 01-07-2009, 08:49 PM

pretty good info, learned a lot I will need in the future.

ndiguy · 01-07-2009, 08:53 PM

Good post bro

19george · 01-07-2009, 09:02 PM

That's a great intro to ph. The only thing I would suggest is to bold the questions to make the long post a little bit more manageable to read.

mightymcknighty · 01-07-2009, 10:46 PM

awesome post Jigsaw...answered a lot for me, as you did in my post...however, what would be a nice addition if I may, is something in there that also lists good suggestions for PCT since a lot of us do not have access to the real good stuff, combinations of OTC would be nice to see what works well with what, even though mine is pretty much laid out, would be nice to see what goes well with others...if thats remotely possible...

OnlySS · 01-07-2009, 11:08 PM

Real good post Jigsaw ; Now I had questions of my own, just not sure it would fit in this thread, but I have seen PCT mentioned a couple times already. So might as well post it up...

Today was the last day on my cycle of SuperTest 350 (1cc/wk/10wks, the real shhhh, not the fake stuff) This is some Great stuff Im tellin' ya.

Now comes the time to prepare for PCT. Here is my question(s). First, when should I start on PCT, today being my last injection, should I wait a week or two to start PCT.

Second question, What should i use for PCT, should I get on Nolva ? Also is it avail in pill form, or do i have to inject again?

Thanks for the help guys, my regular contact went on a vacation, so im trying to get some info so i can let him know what i need when he gets back.

GoldenFear · 01-07-2009, 11:12 PM

subbed. good post

BodyMan123 · 01-08-2009, 12:38 AM

good post...

but i know people who stacked 2 Class 1's..Epistane and Tren and saw really nice gains!!

dsbhaver · 01-08-2009, 01:10 AM

Not Pro-hormones...

AMS's (Advanced Muscle Science) products - test boosters

??????? i thought these were andro's?

Jigsaw-Man · 01-08-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlySS

Real good post Jigsaw ; Now I had questions of my own, just not sure it would fit in this thread, but I have seen PCT mentioned a couple times already. So might as well post it up...

Today was the last day on my cycle of SuperTest 350 (1cc/wk/10wks, the real shhhh, not the fake stuff) This is some Great stuff Im tellin' ya.

Now comes the time to prepare for PCT. Here is my question(s). First, when should I start on PCT, today being my last injection, should I wait a week or two to start PCT.

Second question, What should i use for PCT, should I get on Nolva ? Also is it avail in pill form, or do i have to inject again?

Thanks for the help guys, my regular contact went on a vacation, so im trying to get some info so i can let him know what i need when he gets back.

I've never taken a transdermal steroid before, nor do I plan on it (simply cause I'm scared of needles and I can't get my hands on it anyways). I can't give you solid advice on the PCT question however from what I've been told, you should start your PCT IMMEDIATELY after your cycle, don't wait.

I would think that would apply here as well.

wjb33 · 01-08-2009, 07:17 AM

Haven't you never run a cycle before? OR in your first cycle now?

EDIT: Why are you in the red?

MindZiper · 01-08-2009, 07:23 AM

how deep in the red are you?

i wanna rep you

Jigsaw-Man · 01-08-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjb33

Haven't you never run a cycle before? OR in your first cycle now?

EDIT: Why are you in the red?

I'm on my first cycle of Epistane now. I feelz it in my veinz!!! LOL
I think I pissed off some guys last week after the Colts lost the Wildcard game by saying the referee's threw the game in OT. A bunch of folks destroyed my rep...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniZiper

how deep in the red are you?

i wanna rep you

I appreciate the rep man, I have no idea how to tell how deep in I am, in fact I don't know how to rep people, could you tell me how? I'd be happy to rep you guys.

Jigsaw-Man · 01-08-2009, 08:03 AM

Nervermind I just figured out how to rep haha... I repped you both!

MindZiper · 01-08-2009, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man

Nervermind I just figured out how to rep haha... I repped you both!

lol u cant rep bro. u are in the red. or u can, but it wont do anything.
i repped you... apparently u are in deep... still red.

everyone rep this guy to the green

gerard786 · 01-08-2009, 08:11 AM

awesome thread.....excellent knowledge and thanks for sharing....

just saw your progression pics.....impressive traps....good work

Repped...

Got a question for you....i'm in Australia and can't get my hands on them prohormones....i ordered 2 x iBold and got freakin confiscated by customs.....b@stards !!!!

So just finished my 1st ever cycle of Stoked/MassFx combo....love it. Managed now to get Activate xTreme (Driven Sports) and Stoked again....(best i can do without trying to get prohormone into my country).....how long do i need to go wait to get back on another cycle ?

j_con89 · 01-08-2009, 08:18 AM

this should be a sticky

Jigsaw-Man · 01-08-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiniZiper

lol u cant rep bro. u are in the red. or u can, but it wont do anything.
i repped you... apparently u are in deep... still red.

everyone rep this guy to the green

HAHA thanks, once I'm back in the green I'll rep everyone who made a post!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerard786

awesome thread.....excellent knowledge and thanks for sharing....

just saw your progression pics.....impressive traps....good work

Repped...

Got a question for you....i'm in Australia and can't get my hands on them prohormones....i ordered 2 x iBold and got freakin confiscated by customs.....b@stards !!!!

So just finished my 1st ever cycle of Stoked/MassFx combo....love it. Managed now to get Activate xTreme (Driven Sports) and Stoked again....(best i can do without trying to get prohormone into my country).....how long do i need to go wait to get back on another cycle ?

You can't get PHs in Aust? That blows man I'm sorry to hear that. How much are you out for the stolen iBold? Man that ain't right....

I've heard good things about both Stoked and MassFx. As far as cycling goes, typically with a PH you want to take the time ON + PCT length = Wait time...

Example: I take Epistane for 4 weeks, then I'm on my PCT for 4 weeks. I would want to wait 8 weeks before doing another cycle. With Activate xTreme and Stoked, I don't believe you need to PCT that stuff so I would take the same amount of time off as you did time on. If your on AX/Stoked for 8 weeks, take 8 weeks off then start the cycle again.

Again I've never researched either product so hopefully someone can come in here who has, and correct me if I'm wrong.

wjb33 · 01-08-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man

Nervermind I just figured out how to rep haha... I repped you both!

Repped for rep back...but I still don't really approve of giving advice if you have never taken any of the above mentioned cycles, PCT's, supports, tests, etc.

There are numerous "noob PH" threads too, but to your credit this was easy to read and rather comprehensive.

bigman30685 · 01-08-2009, 08:39 AM

GREAT POST....sticky this.

My suggestions.

Go more into liver health, any supps that may be available for this.

Levels....blood work for natural test levels and so on. I would add this for precautionary measures.

Repped.

Jigsaw-Man · 01-08-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjb33

Repped for rep back...but I still don't really approve of giving advice if you have never taken any of the above mentioned cycles, PCT's, supports, tests, etc.

There are numerous "noob PH" threads too, but to your credit this was easy to read and rather comprehensive.

Oh unfortunately this isn't my post, I'm just posting something that I read that I thought would help other noobs like myself. But actually I'm on Epistane right now so I try to only give advice about Epistane cycles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigman30685

GREAT POST....sticky this.

My suggestions.

Go more into liver health, any supps that may be available for this.

Levels....blood work for natural test levels and so on. I would add this for precautionary measures.

Repped.

Ya the article didn't post much on PCT supplements so much as information on the Pro Hormones themselves. I'm by no means a PCT supplement pro so I'll leave that to someone who is.

On my Epistane cycle I am using the following for a PCT
Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ai/cycle.html
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ai...lesupport.html
NOW Indole-3-Carbinol - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/no...3carbinol.html

and will also start taking Sci-Fit's Kre-Alkalyn again on PCT
http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/SciFit/KreAlkalyn_1500

gerard786 · 01-08-2009, 03:43 PM

Thanks bro...

When you mention Epistane....are you referring to this...?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ibe/epistan.html

wjb33 · 01-08-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerard786

Thanks bro...

When you mention Epistane....are you referring to this...?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/ibe/epistan.html

Yes that is epistane. There are numerous clones also.

RPN - Havoc
CEL - E-stane
Fast Action - Epidrol

alexx33 · 01-08-2009, 03:51 PM

repped...

good read...

rad_rex · 01-08-2009, 03:58 PM

Great read, but messing with hormones scares the **** out of me

ps. repped

Thundercat29 · 01-08-2009, 05:00 PM

Does anyone know which of these products can still
be shipped to Canada?

I know Hyperdrol is one that can't, however Methyl 1-D by
Legal Gear Sciences can come through.

I'm on my 2nd PH cycle with Liver Fix by Myogenix, and
will follow a PCT of Reversitol.

I don't know if it's my imagination, but I'm gaining some of
my power back after losing 50lbs + in the past 8 months.

I'm 184lbs with a 32.5" waist, and I did a full clean 315lb
deadlift, bench is at around 240lbs very clean form, same
with squat, and I'm at 225lbs for incline bench.

I'm wondering if my cycle is working or if it's my imagination??

OnlySS · 01-08-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigsaw-Man

I've never taken a transdermal steroid before, nor do I plan on it (simply cause I'm scared of needles and I can't get my hands on it anyways). I can't give you solid advice on the PCT question however from what I've been told, you should start your PCT IMMEDIATELY after your cycle, don't wait.

I would think that would apply here as well.

For sure, thanks for replying back Jig, i got a hold of my guy earlier today, already pickin up some Nolva to begin in 5 days. Still gotta get the most outta the last inject.
Already planning to start next cycle in 6-8 weeks after finishing PCT. New cycle will consist of S.T.350 stacked with DBol.. Good times!!