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  1. #1
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Work out a sore muscle group?

    I know it has been discussed before, but just looking for more detail to fit my situation... What would be the best for hypertrophy? Should I not work a particular muscle group at all if it is sore? Can I do a light work out of that area?

    The situation is, I usually (try) to do something like a four or five day split, broken into roughly three or four sessions with cardio mixed in. But what happens sometimes is if I have time to do the complete work out cycle sooner, I do. Then everything is sore, and the question becomes, should I just do cardio for a couple days after lifting the three days straight or go ahead and start back in with the cycle. The problem is with my schedule, I have to work out when I can, assuming I am going to miss a work out later in the week.

    More Details...
    So I am sure you wonder about my split details... Well, I use the old "muscle confusion" system? yeah, that's it, LOL. My muscles are confused because my brain is confused. OK, there is method to my madness of course, but I shoot from the hip a lot, because I am bouncing all around with work out time of day and length... I change the session based on when in the day I am working out, and what I got to do last session. I do keep a written record of my work outs, because it is most always different.

    I try to do upper body push type exercises (which is usually two separate chest sessions), then upper body pull type exercises (back), then lower body (legs and abs), with arms thrown in when they fit.

    What happened is this time I didn't work out very consistantly over the holidays due to family stuff and the concussion (head aches) I have been dealing with after my fall off a ladder some weeks back. Certain exercises have been off limits. I guess this week I just sort of got in the groove. I got a chance to work out Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, and today I am really sore, DOMS just about everywhere?

    So back to the question, should I just do cardio today or start back in with the cycle, or do a light version, or just let it heal up for a day or two?

    Any comments from the experts (or voices of experience)?

    Thanks in advance!!

    Dan
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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  2. #2
    Kettlebear Marius_Ursus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hey-Iwas51 View Post
    I know it has been discussed before, but just looking for more detail to fit my situation... What would be the best for hypertrophy? Should I not work a particular muscle group at all if it is sore? Can I do a light work out of that area?

    The situation is, I usually (try) to do something like a four or five day split, broken into roughly three or four sessions with cardio mixed in. But what happens sometimes is if I have time to do the complete work out cycle sooner, I do. Then everything is sore, and the question becomes, should I just do cardio for a couple days after lifting the three days straight or go ahead and start back in with the cycle. The problem is with my schedule, I have to work out when I can, assuming I am going to miss a work out later in the week.

    More Details...
    So I am sure you wonder about my split details... Well, I use the old "muscle confusion" system? yeah, that's it, LOL. My muscles are confused because my brain is confused. OK, there is method to my madness of course, but I shoot from the hip a lot, because I am bouncing all around with work out time of day and length... I change the session based on when in the day I am working out, and what I got to do last session. I do keep a written record of my work outs, because it is most always different.

    I try to do upper body push type exercises (which is usually two separate chest sessions), then upper body pull type exercises (back), then lower body (legs and abs), with arms thrown in when they fit.

    What happened is this time I didn't work out very consistantly over the holidays due to family stuff and the concussion (head aches) I have been dealing with after my fall off a ladder some weeks back. Certain exercises have been off limits. I guess this week I just sort of got in the groove. I got a chance to work out Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, and today I am really sore, DOMS just about everywhere?

    So back to the question, should I just do cardio today or start back in with the cycle, or do a light version, or just let it heal up for a day or two?

    Any comments from the experts (or voices of experience)?

    Thanks in advance!!

    Dan
    I have a cycle I run where I do the same lifts 3-5 times per week at moderate-to-high intensity. When my muscles are sore, I go ahead and do the work anyway. If it's just too much, I drop weight from the bar in 10 pound increments until I find something I can work with and still have intensity in the lift.

    I make some great strength and size gains on that cycle. The cycle lasts six weeks.

    So in a nutshell, I would go ahead and work through the soreness if I were you. By the end of the second set you should feel pretty good.

    Hope that helps.
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  3. #3
    aneas
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    So if you did say chest on Monday and its still sore should you do it again on Thursday? If that is your question I would say I would not do it. At least not on a regular basis.
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  4. #4
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    I have a cycle I run where I do the same lifts 3-5 times per week at moderate-to-high intensity. When my muscles are sore, I go ahead and do the work anyway. If it's just too much, I drop weight from the bar in 10 pound increments until I find something I can work with and still have intensity in the lift.

    I make some great strength and size gains on that cycle. The cycle lasts six weeks.

    So in a nutshell, I would go ahead and work through the soreness if I were you. By the end of the second set you should feel pretty good.

    Hope that helps.
    Its not really the pain from the soreness that keeps me from doing any lifting, usually it is the tendons. Seems like they might be improving over time though, still have to be carefull of my elbows, they are the most susceptable to problems. Actually working out makes the DOMS go away to a point...

    What I am really wondering about though is if I do go ahead and work out, am I just delaying the healing process? That is, am I keeping myself from growing because the healing process will in the long run, have less time to complete? sounds like your plan works, but that may be like you said, only on a six week cycle. I am thinking that anything longer than that might be counter productive?

    I have found that in the past, I was just working out toooo much. I had to learn to control my compulsion to work out twice a day for an hour or more... I got out of that habit a year or more ago.

    More recently, like I discussed, I just don't seem to have as much time to work out, and, since I fell off the ladder, and banged my head, I have trouble with real straining type exercises, like dead lifts, especially, because I have to put my head low and put pressure on my stomach while bent over... gets my head feeling awful pretty quick. For deads, I can only do five or six reps of a weight I am strong enought to do 12 reps x 3 sets. Oh well, that's just whining...

    Just my thoughts. Thanks again for the comments! I might just try it a couple times and see...
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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  5. #5
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aneas View Post
    So if you did say chest on Monday and its still sore should you do it again on Thursday? If that is your question I would say I would not do it. At least not on a regular basis.
    So you're thinking four days is not enough then 'eh... I do know that when I work out while sore, the soreness clears up to a point. That doesn't seem like the best thing because basically that means the healing process stopped there, and I'm breaking things down again. I guess it depends on if I have gotten any stronger since the last session, and can lift a higher load, breaking the fibers down more. hmmm.

    thanks for the comment!
    Last edited by Hey-Iwas51; 01-07-2009 at 03:54 PM.
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
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  6. #6
    Like a bauce Thats_How_IRoll's Avatar
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    A general rule is that a little soreness is ok and alot is not. If only a little sore you should be fine but if you are really felling in take some more time off. The older you get the longer it takes to recover. Don't under estimate the need for rest.
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  7. #7
    Registered User AlanBee's Avatar
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    ^^^^^ I agree with this.
    You grow when your resting, not when your in the gym, so listen to your body and fit in a rest day when needed.
    I was lifting 5 or 6 days a week, but now I find I grow better with around 4 days lifting per week. Use the off days to catch up on some cardio and do your heart a favour.
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  8. #8
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    I'm thinking tonight is cardio night... maybe go after something else tomorrow if the soreness backs off a bit.

    Thanks guys.
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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  9. #9
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Well, I ended up not lifting much at all the rest of last week. (Well, OK, a few lifts over the weekend, the weights were just sitting there, ya know?) I did do cardio several times on the elliptical. Anyway, I used the extremely small dose of valium the doc had given me for before bed for the whole time, and bang, no headache this week... sort of faded away over the weekend. Today has been the only day it has bothered me at all this week, and really not much yet. I lifted Monday, Tuesday and this morning, so far this week.

    Still have some stuff to do before I finish the whole split for the week, so lets see what happens 'eh?
    Last edited by Hey-Iwas51; 01-14-2009 at 03:57 PM.
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
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  10. #10
    eat until you poop BrotherWolf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hey-Iwas51 View Post
    Its not really the pain from the soreness that keeps me from doing any lifting, usually it is the tendons. Seems like they might be improving over time though, still have to be carefull of my elbows, they are the most susceptable to problems. Actually working out makes the DOMS go away to a point...
    It depends on the type of pain, if it is simply DOMS no reason to stop working out in fact working it will make it heal faster as you found out , the blood flows through the sore parts and helps to heal it faster..

    tendons and bone and other more real injuries are treated differently but rehabilitation almost always includes working the injured body part to some extent .. try RICE after your workout(Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation )
    http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/rehab/a/rice.htm
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  11. #11
    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BrotherWolf View Post
    It depends on the type of pain, if it is simply DOMS no reason to stop working out in fact working it will make it heal faster as you found out , the blood flows through the sore parts and helps to heal it faster..

    tendons and bone and other more real injuries are treated differently but rehabilitation almost always includes working the injured body part to some extent .. try RICE after your workout(Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation )
    http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/rehab/a/rice.htm
    Well, the only reason I would not have worked out is to allow for the most muscle growth, based on the theory that you need to heal to grow. that is what I was thinking about. Was looking for input on how long I really needed to wait for the most optimum growth. Not sure if that means to wait till the DOMS is completely gone, but last week I did and it seemed to help with the "side issue" headaches I have been having. I am going to try out a new med for that shortly too.

    Thanks for the comments!
    Dan
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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  12. #12
    I'll Mod Til I'm Dead ironwill2008's Avatar
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    You need to get on a structured routine, and get some consistency in your training. Then the soreness issue will take care of itself.
    No brain, no gain.

    You can't out-train bad nutrition.

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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by aneas View Post
    So if you did say chest on Monday and its still sore should you do it again on Thursday? If that is your question I would say I would not do it. At least not on a regular basis.
    ^^^Inclined to agree, based on my own experience^^^but sometimes with this kind of time involved it's a question of getting adjusted; if the OP were to, say, train chest on Thursday if still sore, the following week he might have adjusted such that he can train chest both Monday and Thursday and only be sore for a day or two afterwards. If not, and he's always sore for 3-4 days afterwards, then I'd say not.
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    Originally Posted by Hey-Iwas51 View Post
    I know it has been discussed before, but just looking for more detail to fit my situation... What would be the best for hypertrophy? Should I not work a particular muscle group at all if it is sore? Can I do a light work out of that area?

    The situation is, I usually (try) to do something like a four or five day split, broken into roughly three or four sessions with cardio mixed in. But what happens sometimes is if I have time to do the complete work out cycle sooner, I do. Then everything is sore, and the question becomes, should I just do cardio for a couple days after lifting the three days straight or go ahead and start back in with the cycle. The problem is with my schedule, I have to work out when I can, assuming I am going to miss a work out later in the week.

    More Details...
    So I am sure you wonder about my split details... Well, I use the old "muscle confusion" system? yeah, that's it, LOL. My muscles are confused because my brain is confused. OK, there is method to my madness of course, but I shoot from the hip a lot, because I am bouncing all around with work out time of day and length... I change the session based on when in the day I am working out, and what I got to do last session. I do keep a written record of my work outs, because it is most always different.

    I try to do upper body push type exercises (which is usually two separate chest sessions), then upper body pull type exercises (back), then lower body (legs and abs), with arms thrown in when they fit.

    What happened is this time I didn't work out very consistantly over the holidays due to family stuff and the concussion (head aches) I have been dealing with after my fall off a ladder some weeks back. Certain exercises have been off limits. I guess this week I just sort of got in the groove. I got a chance to work out Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, and today I am really sore, DOMS just about everywhere?

    So back to the question, should I just do cardio today or start back in with the cycle, or do a light version, or just let it heal up for a day or two?

    Any comments from the experts (or voices of experience)?

    Thanks in advance!!

    Dan
    As far as growth goes.........I would never train a muscle until it is ready (not sore). Otherwise (IMO) you are cheating yourself not to mention doing extra work that is not needed......good luck.
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  15. #15
    eat until you poop BrotherWolf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ironwill2008 View Post
    You need to get on a structured routine, and get some consistency in your training. Then the soreness issue will take care of itself.
    x2 of course ..


    This help explain the process

    http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=78966
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    eat until you poop BrotherWolf's Avatar
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    now this is interesting
    from wikipedia:
    Many drugs have been evaluated in the treatment of the symptoms of DOMS and none have been found to be superior to caffeine.

    I am brewing right now



    here's some official informations and researches on the subject

    ^ DOMS at Sports Injury Bulletin
    ^ Roth, S. (2006, January 23). Why does lactic acid build up in muscles? And why does it cause soreness? ScientificAmerican.com. Retrieved on July 24, 2006.
    ^ Yu, J., Carlsson, L. & Thornell, L.E. (2004). Evidence for myofibril remodeling as opposed to myofibril damage in human muscles with DOMS: an ultrastructural and immunoelectron microscopic study. Histochemistry and Cell Biology, 121(3), p. 219-227. link
    ^ Connolly, D. A., Sayers, S. P. & McHugh, M. P. (2003) Treatment and prevention of delayed onset muscle soreness (abstract.) Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, 17(1):197-208. Retrieved from PubMed.gov on July 24, 2006.
    ^ Szymanski, D. (2003). Recommendations for the avoidance of delayed-onset muscle soreness. Strength and Conditioning Journal 23(4): 7?13.
    ^ Ji-Guo, Y. (2003). Re-evaluation of exercise-induced muscle soreness: an immunohistochemical and ultrastructural study. Abstract of unpublished doctoral dissertation, Ume? Universitet, Sweden. ISBN 91-7305-503-4
    ^ WebMD article on DOMS
    ^ BMJ "Effects of stretching before and after exercising on muscle soreness and risk of injury: systematic review"
    ^ DOMS
    ^ "Alternating hot and cold water immersion for athlete recovery: a review"
    [edit]
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    Registered User Mr.UK's Avatar
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    I'm no expert and I've only been training for 5 months, but I have always been told that anything after 48hrs after a workout is key, you will be fine even if still a little sore.
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    Originally Posted by AlanBee View Post
    ^^^^^ I agree with this.
    You grow when your resting, not when your in the gym, so listen to your body and fit in a rest day when needed.
    I was lifting 5 or 6 days a week, but now I find I grow better with around 4 days lifting per week. Use the off days to catch up on some cardio and do your heart a favour.
    i didn't know that ..so you grow when your resting? I would love to read more about it do you have links to any articles..the funny part is i thought the groth was in the gym
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    stretching blows boathead's Avatar
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    i read somewhere that one can short circuit whatever supercompensation is going on by hitting the muscle too soon. and i believe it, i guess, and so i try to wait til the end of soreness plus a day.

    as a general proposition, having a weekly, set in concrete, workout schedule hasn't worked out for me, as my various muscle groups all seem to need varying amounts of recovery time. legs sometimes can take 10 days. back, other than deads, i can hit every other day. chest twice a week.

    i am learning to be more flexible in my approaches, paying homage to the recovery gods.
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    Originally Posted by BrotherWolf View Post
    now this is interesting
    from wikipedia:
    Many drugs have been evaluated in the treatment of the symptoms of DOMS and none have been found to be superior to caffeine.

    I am brewing right now



    here's some official informations and researches on the subject

    ^ DOMS at Sports Injury Bulletin
    ^ Roth, S. (2006, January 23). Why does lactic acid build up in muscles? And why does it cause soreness? ScientificAmerican.com. Retrieved on July 24, 2006.
    ^ Yu, J., Carlsson, L. & Thornell, L.E. (2004). Evidence for myofibril remodeling as opposed to myofibril damage in human muscles with DOMS: an ultrastructural and immunoelectron microscopic study. Histochemistry and Cell Biology, 121(3), p. 219-227. link
    ^ Connolly, D. A., Sayers, S. P. & McHugh, M. P. (2003) Treatment and prevention of delayed onset muscle soreness (abstract.) Journal of Strength Conditioning Research, 17(1):197-208. Retrieved from PubMed.gov on July 24, 2006.
    ^ Szymanski, D. (2003). Recommendations for the avoidance of delayed-onset muscle soreness. Strength and Conditioning Journal 23(4): 7?13.
    ^ Ji-Guo, Y. (2003). Re-evaluation of exercise-induced muscle soreness: an immunohistochemical and ultrastructural study. Abstract of unpublished doctoral dissertation, Ume? Universitet, Sweden. ISBN 91-7305-503-4
    ^ WebMD article on DOMS
    ^ BMJ "Effects of stretching before and after exercising on muscle soreness and risk of injury: systematic review"
    ^ DOMS
    ^ "Alternating hot and cold water immersion for athlete recovery: a review"
    [edit]
    I dunno about caffeine. I've been drinking 3 black coffees every morning this week, and the DOMS in my quads are still bad enough to effect how I walk down stairs (did squats Monday night). Only difference between Tuesday and now is the soreness isn't quite as bad now; it's more like my normal level of soreness.
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    Canis Belli Whiskeyjack's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nunyas View Post
    I dunno about caffeine. I've been drinking 3 black coffees every morning this week, and the DOMS in my quads are still bad enough to effect how I walk down stairs (did squats Monday night). Only difference between Tuesday and now is the soreness isn't quite as bad now; it's more like my normal level of soreness.
    ^^^my own feeling and experience^^^.
    "An infraction is better than an infarction."
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    "Cursus sub pondere crescit."
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    Smile

    Originally Posted by flexxdzl View Post
    i didn't know that ..so you grow when your resting? I would love to read more about it do you have links to any articles..the funny part is i thought the groth was in the gym
    LIFTING is very important but not KEY............DIET and REST are KEY factors that decide if you GROW or NOT. But you still have to train very INTENSE to get RESULTS. You can have less than perfect workouts but still get better than average results if your diet and rest are in check. But even if you have the best workout routine in the world you will most likely gain nothing if your diet and rest is poor...........
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  23. #23
    Registered User Nunyas's Avatar
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    back to the original topic though...

    personally whether or not I work a sore muscle depends on how sore it is. If it's barely noticeable... I'll hit it again. If it's affecting how I move about during the day... I let it rest.
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    Old skool?

    So what about using the second workout as a lighter (pump) tye workout, similar to the type used in the "early days".

    Or have we all moved on from that?
    Would like to hear some opinions
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    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nunyas View Post
    back to the original topic though...

    personally whether or not I work a sore muscle depends on how sore it is. If it's barely noticeable... I'll hit it again. If it's affecting how I move about during the day... I let it rest.
    Yeah, this is kind of where I have been for a while... It was just that in this case I was pretty sore because basically, I had gotten ahead of schedule on the workout. Something that has happened a lot recently for various reasons as I described above...

    That is why I asked... pretty good info all around, thanks all!!!

    and yes, I know I need to keep a better schedule... for some reason with life where it is at right now, this is the best I can do. Lots going on.
    I am amazed how my body has been able to change... It's design truly is a wonder. King David realized that some three thousand years ago...
    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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    5 years already? Hey-Iwas51's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paulb72 View Post
    So what about using the second workout as a lighter (pump) tye workout, similar to the type used in the "early days".

    Or have we all moved on from that?
    Would like to hear some opinions
    Well, yeah, that is a very good question... my son took a couple weight lifting classes in High School, and was taught that you can have more than one work out a week for a given muscle group, but that one would be a lite work out...

    Is that NOT acceptable for body building?? What I seemed to have found is that less seems to be better as mentioned above by a couple folks...

    Thanks again all!

    Dan
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    "I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well." Psalm 139:14 NIV
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  27. #27
    Registered User Nunyas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Hey-Iwas51 View Post
    Well, yeah, that is a very good question... my son took a couple weight lifting classes in High School, and was taught that you can have more than one work out a week for a given muscle group, but that one would be a lite work out...

    Is that NOT acceptable for body building?? What I seemed to have found is that less seems to be better as mentioned above by a couple folks...

    Thanks again all!

    Dan
    I believe the most correct answer here is, "what ever works best for you" ... I've seen people on these forums that work every body part 2 times a week, and I've seen people on here that only work a body part once a week.

    For me, it's twice a week, and it's as heavy as I can go both times. I tried once a week, and I just didn't progress in strength as quickly as I did twice a week. Then again, I'm still a long way from my strength goals.
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  28. #28
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    Just for the record, if I didn't work out a sore muscle group, I'd never lift again. LOL
    Vikings

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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    Just for the record, if I didn't work out a sore muscle group, I'd never lift again. LOL
    I agree.

    I find that if the soreness doesn't go away after the first couple of minutes of lifting, it is probably better to back off. However, if it goes away once you are stretched out and warmed up--go for it. On the same line, I find if I stretch a couple of times between muscle group workouts, that helps a lot and I am more ready to go on the next session.
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  30. #30
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    Generally, I've tried to not work on a muscle that is still sore. However if, say, my calves are still a little sore from raises on Monday, I might still try deadlifts on Wednesday, just because it isn't the focus and I don't want to fall off schedule.

    Now if my back is sore, forget it, I won't even go to the gym.
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