SHTF, survivalism, etc: forgetting the obvious

[Vuducow_the_Cow]

I've originally posted this under the other SHTF thread, but I think this properly belongs in its own thread for ease of reference & responses.

======================================

Virtually all survivalists forget the obvious. People imagine SHTF as a Mad Max scenario and you, the muscular sharpshooters with your 5k rounds of ammo and five guns will just be king of the jungle while paper-pushing pinkos will be either dead or blowing you for venison. That's implausible.

You will have a tyranny.

The makings of a police thug:
Someone ****ed. Then:
A man eats, say, 2,500 calories a day. About 900k a year, about 18m in 20 years. That's not that pricey, either. Then, give him a gun ($200) ammo ($200) uniform ($200) ideology (?) and status. Boom, thug. Police. Army. Ya rly think it's that pricey to get 10 million police for our government? Eaaaasy. And we won't do **** against that ten million police.

I've lived in the dying years of the bloodiest, most sadistic regime on Earth - the USSR. We've butchered tens of millions of our own people *in peacetime*. Not just random people - scientists, writers, officers, poets. We've allowed tens of millions to die in WW2 through almost deliberately using the Wehrmacht to slaughter our own people. It was eerily symbiotic in that perverse way.

Now... do you guys rly think you'll drive around in F150s, shoot deer and **** camwhores? /smirk/ Come now.

Quoting NYT from August 2005: "Dr. Miller's data reveal some yawning gaps in basic knowledge. American adults in general do not understand what molecules are (other than that they are really small). Fewer than a third can identify DNA as a key to heredity. Only about 10 percent know what radiation is. One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth, an idea science had abandoned by the 17th century."

We have a perverse version of democracy - any one man (vs. aristocracy), one vote. What's that mean? Every 16m calories or so lets you breed another voter. The word choice is deliberate. Breed, like cattle. And they'll go uh, okay (cue Warcraft orc sounds) and vote for nonsensical destruction. Smarter people in government will say, hey, wanna join the police, and they'll go uh, okay. They'll give them a gun and some ammo and say go deal with undesirables and terrorists, and they'll go uh, okay. All ten million of them. A huge semi-sentient semi-zombie horde.

So, uh...

You think maybe we should rework those SHTF plans, guys?

[Steak_n_Taters]

Has someone been reading 1984?

I get what you are saying, and it is definitely a reality survivalists need to consider.

I guess all you can really do is try to be prepared for anything, and expect to be totally unprepared for whatever actually happens.

In the end I think many people do have a somewhat skewed outlook as far as what it will take to survive. I think another problem, besides what you described, is large gangs of semi-organized thugs/looters, who just want to take advantage of people who were better prepared than they are. I don't care how many guns you have, you are going to have trouble taking on dozens and dozens of welfare-zombies coming at you in the dead of night.

Probably the best way to deal with either scenario is to be prepared to try and become a part of a community with like minded people. Together you could more easily defend each other and have a diverse enough set of skills to help everyone survive with some decent leadership.

I dunno. There are just too many unknowns. Anything could happen. What I do know is, whether it actually ends up helping me or not, I feel more comfortable with lots of guns, ammo, food, skills, and other supplies, than I would without them.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

Has someone been reading 1984?

I get what you are saying, and it is definitely a reality survivalists need to consider.

I guess all you can really do is try to be prepared for anything, and expect to be totally unprepared for whatever actually happens.

In the end I think many people do have a somewhat skewed outlook as far as what it will take to survive. I think another problem, besides what you described, is large gangs of semi-organized thugs/looters, who just want to take advantage of people who were better prepared than they are. I don't care how many guns you have, you are going to have trouble taking on dozens and dozens of welfare-zombies coming at you in the dead of night.

Probably the best way to deal with either scenario is to be prepared to try and become a part of a community with like minded people. Together you could more easily defend each other and have a diverse enough set of skills to help everyone survive with some decent leadership.

I dunno. There are just too many unknowns. Anything could happen. What I do know is, whether it actually ends up helping me or not, I feel more comfortable with lots of guns, ammo, food, skills, and other supplies, than I would without them.

Well... Let's take a look at my Fall Back Plan...

I Have a Wood heated Mobile shelter (My Ice Fishing House) that can hitch to my F-150... And I'm a 1 hour and 45 minute drive (Mostly on back roads... But back roads make it over 2 hours)

Deep in the Chippewa National Forest...

There is an area of 60 acres owned by the family of my best friend of 27 years... About 20 of us drop back to there... From all different walks of life... But all are outdoorsman, hunters, fisherman...

There's a large deer population...

There's one small town 5 miles away... Land is accessed only by one minimum maintainance road... Which has 3 natural choke points made by heavily forested ridges.

The Central Compound is about 40 acres, that rings a 25 acre lake, that is loaded with fish... Surrounding the lake in a Triangular shape are tall glacier carved granite ridges... That are deadly impossible to climb in winter... And a giant pain in the ass to climb in summer... But there are trails up from the interior of the acreage.

There are only 3 access points to the central compound, and those are all choke points from the ridges or the Long Dirt Road.

In the basement of the small cabin are 5 30.06 rifles, and a Wrapped Pallet of Ammo.

And there is enough fire wood cut (As well as 3 wood stoves in dry storage) to last for damn near a decade. As well as 2 small wind turbines for base power.

******

If all hell falls apart... All you really have to do is survive for 2 years... And the people incapable of surviving will be dead. Then it turns into a scavange mission.

[laxer32]

^^^I see you have thought this through.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by laxer32

^^^I see you have thought this through.

They say that only 4% of the (Non-Military) American Population has the ability to survive for 2 years should their be a total collapse of utilities.

After spending 16 days and 14 nights living 6 miles out on the ice sheet of Lake Mille Lacs last winter, catching fish, and living in a POS camper with a wood stove for heat and 2 Car Batteries... Catching fish and having fun... It's fair to say that I'm in that 4%.

So I'll be damned IF, something happens... That I'm going to let the 96% of you, come drag me down into your goddam Death Spiral, because you were too busy down loading Britney Spears Nip-Slip Videos rather than bother to learn how to take care of yourself in the real world.

[SilvrBckGorilla]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

They say that only 4% of the (Non-Military) American Population has the ability to survive for 2 years should their be a total collapse of utilities.

After spending 16 days and 14 nights living 6 miles out on the ice sheet of Lake Mille Lacs last winter, catching fish, and living in a POS camper with a wood stove for heat and 2 Car Batteries... Catching fish and having fun... It's fair to say that I'm in that 4%.

So I'll be damned IF, something happens... That I'm going to let the 96% of you, come drag me down into your goddam Death Spiral, because you were too busy down loading Britney Spears Nip-Slip Videos rather than bother to learn how to take care of yourself in the real world.

Link?

Seriously though, I did just order the SAS Survival Guide. I heard it was a good read.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by SilvrBckGorilla

Link?

Seriously though, I did just order the SAS Survival Guide. I heard it was a good read.

Won't matter for **** if you don't put some practical experience behind it.

I make it a point to take City Kitties out and introduce them to life in what I consider "The Real World."

It's always the guy who steps out of the truck with a mosquito net over his face, Eddie Bauer Brand books and a survivalist handbook tucked in his back pocket, who's convinced that since he's the king of the Dotcom-Dorks back home under the buzz of flourescent lights, that all he needs to do to survive is be smart...

And it's always that guy who within 24 hours is laying big brown wiper in his diaper, because he tricked himself into thinking that intelligence can make up for experience.

You have 2 options...

Learn how to self-sufficiently survive... Or have a useful skill to bring to a group run by someone who has the ability to let you survive.

Show up to my camp, with a I-Pod and a tin cup looking for a hand out, and I'll turn you into a pair of boots, and feed the rest to keep the dogs strong and happy.

[5x10]

having the land is the biggest hurdle

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by SilvrBckGorilla

Link?

Seriously though, I did just order the SAS Survival Guide. I heard it was a good read.

Won't matter for **** if you don't put some practical experience behind it.

I make it a point to take City Kitties out and introduce them to life in what I consider "The Real World."

It's always the guy who steps out of the truck with a mosquito net over his face, Eddie Bauer Brand books and a survivalist handbook tucked in his back pocket, who's convinced that since he's the king of the Dotcom-Dorks back home under the buzz of flourescent lights, that all he needs to do to survive is be smart...

And it's always that guy who within 24 hours is laying big brown wiper in his diaper, because he tricked himself into thinking that intelligence can make up for experience.

You have 2 options...

Learn how to self-sufficiently survive... Or have a useful skill to bring to a group run by someone who has the ability to let you survive.

Show up to my camp, with a I-Pod and a tin cup looking for a hand out, and I'll turn you into a pair of boots, and feed the rest to keep the dogs strong and happy.

[SilvrBckGorilla]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

Won't matter for **** if you don't put some practical experience behind it.

I make it a point to take City Kitties out and introduce them to life in what I consider "The Real World."

It's always the guy who steps out of the truck with a mosquito net over his face, Eddie Bauer Brand books and a survivalist handbook tucked in his back pocket, who's convinced that since he's the king of the Dotcom-Dorks back home under the buzz of flourescent lights, that all he needs to do to survive is be smart...

And it's always that guy who within 24 hours is laying big brown wiper in his diaper, because he tricked himself into thinking that intelligence can make up for experience.

You have 2 options...

Learn how to self-sufficiently survive... Or have a useful skill to bring to a group run by someone who has the ability to let you survive.

Show up to my camp, with a I-Pod and a tin cup looking for a hand out, and I'll turn you into a pair of boots, and feed the rest to keep the dogs strong and happy.

lol...wut?

All I mentioned was that I picked up a book to read.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by SilvrBckGorilla

lol...wut?

All I mentioned was that I picked up a book to read.

What I'm saying is, don't count on the book to be enough... I run into too many guys who think all they need is the book and it will make up for their lack of experience.

The book is frackin' pointless, if you **** your pants the first time a rainstorm soaks your wood pile and you can't get a fire started on a night that's going to get down to freezing.

Anyone know how you handle this situation?

[SilvrBckGorilla]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

What I'm saying is, don't count on the book to be enough... I run into too many guys who think all they need is the book and it will make up for their lack of experience.

The book is frackin' pointless, if you **** your pants the first time a rainstorm soaks your wood pile and you can't get a fire started on a night that's going to get down to freezing.

Anyone know how you handle this situation?

Oh, I get what you're saying, but I still like to read things such as that and see if I learn anything. Me and a Marine buddy spent a few days in the Okefenokee a while back and he is actually going to use his leave to spend a couple weeks down there. I was more so asking if any one had ever read it before and learned anything useful.

[xc_mtb]

lol ive tried surviving in the wildnerness before with unexpected success. one week without bringing barely any packed food wasnt as bad as i thought. i think i would be good to go if i persuaded my parents to buy me better guns and more ammo. i think illnesses would be quite scary, but i have taken literally like 20 first aid courses because in all the rifle and wilderness survival courses i took they started off with first aid, but i would have no idea how to deal with severe things, like serious illnesses or injuries requiring minor surgeries but ill leave that up to dad i suppose since he was a surgeon before he went into medical research. i just have to construct a permanent hideaway somewhere and leave a good portion of my supplies there so i am ready to go on the fly, and not tell anyone (other than useful people and people in my family) where it is so i dont have people coming looking to live off of our food. another thing that scares me is not knowing where my family is when the terror strikes. who knows how much time we could have to get to the spot? what is somebody is at a friends house or on a trip and has their cellphone off?

[SilvrBckGorilla]

Originally Posted by xc_mtb

lol ive tried surviving in the wildnerness before with unexpected success. one week without bringing barely any packed food wasnt as bad as i thought. i think i would be good to go if i persuaded my parents to buy me better guns and more ammo. i think illnesses would be quite scary, but i have taken literally like 20 first aid courses because in all the rifle and wilderness survival courses i took they started off with first aid, but i would have no idea how to deal with severe things, like serious illnesses or injuries requiring minor surgeries but ill leave that up to dad i suppose since he was a surgeon before he went into medical research. i just have to construct a permanent hideaway somewhere and leave a good portion of my supplies there so i am ready to go on the fly, and not tell anyone (other than useful people and people in my family) where it is so i dont have people coming looking to live off of our food. another thing that scares me is not knowing where my family is when the terror strikes. who knows how much time we could have to get to the spot? what is somebody is at a friends house or on a trip and has their cellphone off?

Yeah, seperation has always worried me since I travel a lot with work.

[Nagalfar]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

Well... Let's take a look at my Fall Back Plan...

I Have a Wood heated Mobile shelter (My Ice Fishing House) that can hitch to my F-150... And I'm a 1 hour and 45 minute drive (Mostly on back roads... But back roads make it over 2 hours)

Deep in the Chippewa National Forest...

There is an area of 60 acres owned by the family of my best friend of 27 years... About 20 of us drop back to there... From all different walks of life... But all are outdoorsman, hunters, fisherman...

There's a large deer population...

There's one small town 5 miles away... Land is accessed only by one minimum maintainance road... Which has 3 natural choke points made by heavily forested ridges.

The Central Compound is about 40 acres, that rings a 25 acre lake, that is loaded with fish... Surrounding the lake in a Triangular shape are tall glacier carved granite ridges... That are deadly impossible to climb in winter... And a giant pain in the ass to climb in summer... But there are trails up from the interior of the acreage.

There are only 3 access points to the central compound, and those are all choke points from the ridges or the Long Dirt Road.

In the basement of the small cabin are 5 30.06 rifles, and a Wrapped Pallet of Ammo.

And there is enough fire wood cut (As well as 3 wood stoves in dry storage) to last for damn near a decade. As well as 2 small wind turbines for base power.

******

If all hell falls apart... All you really have to do is survive for 2 years... And the people incapable of surviving will be dead. Then it turns into a scavange mission.

First, all roads would be a nightmare to even be near.. it would be a free fire zone that acts as a funnel for shooters pleaser, anyone who has anything they dont have or want is going to be a target.

Second, Back roads are a death sentence, as anyone knowing the area would set some basic stops and you would probably never even hear the bullet from even a half ass layed ambush.

Third, even IF you somehow were allowed to just drive away, your smoke from those 3 cords of wood would give your location away, thus causing a ugly chain of events, your lack of perimeter security would be the end of you and all your supplies, absolutely. Your Ice Fishing house is one way in, one way out.. all someone need do is get on the door side and start sending bullets though the door.. your life, and your supplies now belong to someone who was not silly enough to worry about creature comforts that a Ice Fishing house would provide.

Note: outdoors men, fishermen and what have you are generally clueless about setting up and maintaining perimeter security, and they are generally not very effective when returning fire at someone with the experience of suppressing fire.

[twbtwbtwbtwb]

Originally Posted by Nagalfar

First, all roads would be a nightmare to even be near.. it would be a free fire zone that acts as a funnel for shooters pleaser, anyone who has anything they dont have or want is going to be a target.

Second, Back roads are a death sentence, as anyone knowing the area would set some basic stops and you would probably never even hear the bullet from even a half ass layed ambush.

Third, even IF you somehow were allowed to just drive away, your smoke from those 3 cords of wood would give your location away, thus causing a ugly chain of events, your lack of perimeter security would be the end of you and all your supplies, absolutely. Your Ice Fishing house is one way in, one way out.. all someone need do is get on the door side and start sending bullets though the door.. your life, and your supplies now belong to someone who was not silly enough to worry about creature comforts that a Ice Fishing house would provide.

Note: outdoors men, fishermen and what have you are generally clueless about setting up and maintaining perimeter security, and they are generally not very effective when returning fire at someone with the experience of suppressing fire.

o ****. (im gonna go grab some popcorn noaw.)

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Nagalfar

First, all roads would be a nightmare to even be near.. it would be a free fire zone that acts as a funnel for shooters pleaser, anyone who has anything they dont have or want is going to be a target.

Second, Back roads are a death sentence, as anyone knowing the area would set some basic stops and you would probably never even hear the bullet from even a half ass layed ambush.

Third, even IF you somehow were allowed to just drive away, your smoke from those 3 cords of wood would give your location away, thus causing a ugly chain of events, your lack of perimeter security would be the end of you and all your supplies, absolutely. Your Ice Fishing house is one way in, one way out.. all someone need do is get on the door side and start sending bullets though the door.. your life, and your supplies now belong to someone who was not silly enough to worry about creature comforts that a Ice Fishing house would provide.

Note: outdoors men, fishermen and what have you are generally clueless about setting up and maintaining perimeter security, and they are generally not very effective when returning fire at someone with the experience of suppressing fire.

Did I forget to mention that these "Outdoorsman" are also retired Military?

*****

And actually my fish house... Like all walls everywhere are not bullet proof... Bullets fly straight through all walls...

Except my wood stove wall, which is concrete fibre board.

[Nagalfar]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

Did I forget to mention that these "Outdoorsman" are also retired Military?

*****

And actually my fish house... Like all walls everywhere are not bullet proof... Bullets fly straight through all walls...

Except my wood stove wall, which is concrete fibre board.

These are points made.. and not an attack.. better to find a weakness on paper rather than in the bush...

Retired military, are like retired figure skaters.. they know the routine, but they cant really skate anymore, defense, assault and bush craft are things that require the devotion of constant practice, just like the figure skater who skates their arse off for years when they are not in competition just so they can properly preform on the one day when they are called to do so.

Odds always favor the those doing to ambush..

[59kg_weakling]

Do any of you blokes have or know of anyone with a fort?

I know that some of the bikie gangs in NSW have fortified clubhouses out in the middle of nowhere (desert and grasslands). They have giant barbed walls and watch towers. These bikies are pretty well armed too, when the police stumble upon some of their properties, they can find huge weapons caches.

I think these kind of forts would be ideal in a survival situation and they're relatively unknown.

[Hiroshawn_ftw]

**** just got real.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

Won't matter for **** if you don't put some practical experience behind it.

I make it a point to take City Kitties out and introduce them to life in what I consider "The Real World."

It's always the guy who steps out of the truck with a mosquito net over his face, Eddie Bauer Brand books and a survivalist handbook tucked in his back pocket, who's convinced that since he's the king of the Dotcom-Dorks back home under the buzz of flourescent lights, that all he needs to do to survive is be smart...

And it's always that guy who within 24 hours is laying big brown wiper in his diaper, because he tricked himself into thinking that intelligence can make up for experience.

You have 2 options...

Learn how to self-sufficiently survive... Or have a useful skill to bring to a group run by someone who has the ability to let you survive.

Show up to my camp, with a I-Pod and a tin cup looking for a hand out, and I'll turn you into a pair of boots, and feed the rest to keep the dogs strong and happy.

What if I show up with a few thousand rounds of ammo, a couple ARs and AKs, and some wiminz?

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

What if I show up with a few thousand rounds of ammo, a couple ARs and AKs, and some wiminz?

See now that's a little more like it...

However... In a certain sense... Should all SHTF... Every survivialist group will have to take new people with new skills in...

And I personally would prefer someone who shows up unarmed, but highly skilled... Over someone who shows up armed to the teeth, and light on skills...

Simply because an unarmed guy has to earn my trust to get a gun... And is encouraged to build relationships and invest... Where as an armed guy, isn't going to be to willing to give up his guns... And will always have the feeling like he can walk away rather than invest deeper when times get tough.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

See now that's a little more like it...

However... In a certain sense... Should all SHTF... Every survivialist group will have to take new people with new skills in...

And I personally would prefer someone who shows up unarmed, but highly skilled... Over someone who shows up armed to the teeth, and light on skills...

Simply because an unarmed guy has to earn my trust to get a gun... And is encouraged to build relationships and invest... Where as an armed guy, isn't going to be to willing to give up his guns... And will always have the feeling like he can walk away rather than invest deeper when times get tough.

I have some good skillz. Nunchuck skills. Bowstaff skills. lol.

But I think I'll be ok. We have a good retreat location. If we can't manage to get out there, I don't live in the middle of or even really all that near a city. We have plans and backup plans and backup backup plans, and a good skill set between us. We'll be better off than most people. LOL when that last hurricane rolled through my area we were living high on the hog compared to everyone else on my street.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Steak_n_Taters

I have some good skillz. Nunchuck skills. Bowstaff skills. lol.

But I think I'll be ok. We have a good retreat location. If we can't manage to get out there, I don't live in the middle of or even really all that near a city. We have plans and backup plans and backup backup plans, and a good skill set between us. We'll be better off than most people. LOL when that last hurricane rolled through my area we were living high on the hog compared to everyone else on my street.

Yeah... Realistically, you can never be prepared for and safe from everything... All you can do is prepare as best you can, and keep learning.

In a way that's why experience is so goddam valueable...

All these dotcom dorks sit around with a survial book tucked under their arm, and think it's good enough... Then something happens that's not in the book, and they've got frackin' nothing...

And they guy with experience might not have seen it before... But more often than not... The guy with experience has seen something like it... Or has been in a tight enough situations in the past to know how to make the right call, and keep a level head... And it's keeping a level head that will save your ass over everything else!

[tts0lid]

i'd be more concerned about people organizing and forming an army.. taking control of the military.. tanks, planes, etc....

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by tts0lid

i'd be more concerned about people organizing and forming an army.. taking control of the military.. tanks, planes, etc....

Well in Urban areas that's obviously a concern...

But realistically in any SHTF situation utilities collapse... Meaning so does the oil infrastructure... And at the current levels the SOR is only going to have enough fuel to handle a domestic military situation for what... 6 weeks... 8 weeks...

Sure you're going to have Martial Law in the Urban areas... But no Military presence is going to waste it's time flying recon missions deep in the bush.

You're basically going to see a flux in 2 directions... Initially people surging out of the Urban areas... Those who have resources in the rural... Urbanite peckerheads who have no external resources will stay put and "Let the Government take care of them."

Which the duration that can be effective is going to varry from city to city...

Take a city like New York... NYC will be a Lawless **** hole inside of a month... Where as Minneapolis will probably be able to feed it's people in Brown mode for several months.

But the first winter will wipe out all Northern Urban populations.

The people who come out with a stash and survived the looting and riots that will be the final death knell of western civilization will try to move into the rural areas... Where guys like me and steak have been thriving for several months... And they'll have to barter their skills and labor in order to be valueable enough to be fed.

******

The Sun Belt, where Winter won't "Thin out the Herd" will be the worst...

Without Utilities to help irrigation the Sun Belt will fall back into drought and desert within a year or two... But it will be 2 hard years of bad scavenging and looting Militia's.

In a true "Collapse" the Government is going to buckle down and watch after it's own first and foremost... And the Major cities as a secondary priority... And hope that whatever caused it can be fixed... So they can have the strength to wrest back control in that rebound (Should it be possible.)

The rest of us, will be on our own, counting on anything other than that... Is a mix between stupidity and suicide... Call it "Stupicide."

[Vuducow_the_Cow]

Hey, Rambos. Take a gander at the original post.

You imagine a SHTF situation as magically no government and you will finally get to play commando with your stashed guns and ammo and "how to start a fire with wet logs" knowledge from Vietnam-era bootcamp.

I will rain on your parade somewhat.

That will most likely never happen.

What WILL happen is a tyranny. An ever-bigger government over an ever-stupider population will become ever-tyrannical. There will be a bureaucratic tyranny and people will be so stupid as to think that "a law" is anything that passes with proper rules and quorum. Which means arbitrary rules so long as ritual is performed.

Civilian gun industries will slowly -- or quickly -- be destroyed; importation restricted; registration enacted; confiscations performed; true patriots marginalized. The economy will be wrecked by policies ignoring the realities of economic life that CANNOT change because they correspond to REALITY which doesn't change. Faced with a wrecked economy, which means: laws inhibiting cooperation and production, officials will courageously promise to "do something" and will scapegoat businessmen and producers. They will stop, die or flee. Shortages, lack of production, consumption of capital, destruction of wealth, and decline in quality of life will occur.

New-age cults like environmentalism will call for sacrificing man to animals, plants, and rocks.

[People will work for Brawndo.]

And meanwhile you are debating what you will do with your 30-06 and a pallet of ammo? Any ghetto, any city, will easily breed and support 10,000 or 10 million police and army thugs who will go, confiscate your land, kill you, and nothing will happen to them, and you will be dead -- and people won't care.

Janet Reno caused 80 people (women, children) BURNED and CRUSHED BY TANKS at Waco. A sniper shot Randy Weaver's WIFE in the head when she was holding his BABY as he, Randy, was pulling his killed SON back into his house. That same FBI, who was besieging his house, played 24/7 recordings of rabbits being killed and babies crying and they taunted him by addressing his now-dead wife every day over loudspeakers.

A socialist government, a socialist morality that makes it possible, will field endless soldiers.

Tellingly, someone counted, that if you put all Chinese in a file and started shooting them with a machine gun, they will be born faster than you could kill them.

THINK ABOUT THAT + THE REST OF WHAT I SAID.

It's not gonna be about "I'm gonna live in my fishing trailer with my dog and SAS handbook because I'm a badass ex-soldier."

You think like kids. It won't be a shooting gallery of half-witted zombies like Omega Man.

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by Vuducow_the_Cow

Hey, Rambos. Take a gander at the original post.

You imagine a SHTF situation as magically no government and you will finally get to play commando with your stashed guns and ammo and "how to start a fire with wet logs" knowledge from Vietnam-era bootcamp.

I will rain on your parade somewhat.

That will most likely never happen.

What WILL happen is a tyranny. An ever-bigger government over an ever-stupider population will become ever-tyrannical. There will be a bureaucratic tyranny and people will be so stupid as to think that "a law" is anything that passes with proper rules and quorum. Which means arbitrary rules so long as ritual is performed.

Civilian gun industries will slowly -- or quickly -- be destroyed; importation restricted; registration enacted; confiscations performed; true patriots marginalized. The economy will be wrecked by policies ignoring the realities of economic life that CANNOT change because they correspond to REALITY which doesn't change. Faced with a wrecked economy, which means: laws inhibiting cooperation and production, officials will courageously promise to "do something" and will scapegoat businessmen and producers. They will stop, die or flee. Shortages, lack of production, consumption of capital, destruction of wealth, and decline in quality of life will occur.

New-age cults like environmentalism will call for sacrificing man to animals, plants, and rocks.

[People will work for Brawndo.]

And meanwhile you are debating what you will do with your 30-06 and a pallet of ammo? Any ghetto, any city, will easily breed and support 10,000 or 10 million police and army thugs who will go, confiscate your land, kill you, and nothing will happen to them, and you will be dead -- and people won't care.

Janet Reno caused 80 people (women, children) BURNED and CRUSHED BY TANKS at Waco. A sniper shot Randy Weaver's WIFE in the head when she was holding his BABY as he, Randy, was pulling his killed SON back into his house. That same FBI, who was besieging his house, played 24/7 recordings of rabbits being killed and babies crying and they taunted him by addressing his now-dead wife every day over loudspeakers.

A socialist government, a socialist morality that makes it possible, will field endless soldiers.

Tellingly, someone counted, that if you put all Chinese in a file and started shooting them with a machine gun, they will be born faster than you could kill them.

THINK ABOUT THAT + THE REST OF WHAT I SAID.

It's not gonna be about "I'm gonna live in my fishing trailer with my dog and SAS handbook because I'm a badass ex-soldier."

You think like kids. It won't be a shooting gallery of half-witted zombies like Omega Man.

Well you're talking about a different situation all together... You're basically playing "Your version of make believe." Against my "Do my best to be prepared."

Which is a whole lot better than sitting in an apartment throwing my hands up in the air and saying "The sky is falling... Might as well suck on a shot gun!"

[sugicalmike]

Originally Posted by Nainoa

What I'm saying is, don't count on the book to be enough... I run into too many guys who think all they need is the book and it will make up for their lack of experience.

The book is frackin' pointless, if you **** your pants the first time a rainstorm soaks your wood pile and you can't get a fire started on a night that's going to get down to freezing.

Anyone know how you handle this situation?

You burn that fukin book!


There, see, I'm an outdoorsish kinda guy! That means I get to come to teh sheltered haven, right?

[Nainoa]

Originally Posted by sugicalmike

You burn that fukin book!


There, see, I'm an outdoorsish kinda guy! That means I get to come to teh sheltered haven, right?

Sure... I'll even meet you half way... You'll just have to play along with my delusions...

So when we hitch the F-150 onto the wood stove heated fish house, load some hot burning Cedar into the stove... And when we get up to 88 miles per hour... You grab the dash and scream "Great Scott" and we'll go Back to the Future!