The big useless compounds list

[Bane]

The thougth crossed my mind to do this thread. The idea is to make a thread with collectively all the compounds currently used in supplements that:
a)Do nothing/very little for the purpose they are used
b)Are actually counterproductive for bodybuilding purposes
c)Are inferior/more expensive to other forms of the same compound
d)Have serious health issues

This will not include compounds with questionable risk/effect factors like PHs or compounds with very little/zero research on them or compounds that have some research saying they are great and other research saying they are useless.

I am reserving 10 first posts for this so I can edit them. Hope some mod can help me with this after my post edit time limit ends.
Kindly contribute to this thread by offering your own additions.

So lets get started:
Glutamine(for athletic performance enhancing purposes)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5607091
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=586999

ZMA
http://bodyandmind.gr/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1192375134

guggulsterone
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=622320
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=466547

Vanadyl
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5728391

Methyl Ester Everything
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=656269
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6113931

liquid creatine
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=427818

Glycocyamine
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=781228

vitex agnus castus

The effects of vitex agnus castus extract and interaction with bromocriptine on luteinizing hormone and testosterone in male mice



S.Nasri, PhD 1 Sh.Orian, PhD 2 A.Haeri Rohani, PhD 3 Gh.Amin, PhD 4 M.A.Naghizadeh, MSc 5.

Assistant professor, Department of Biology, Azad Eslami University Parand branch 1 Full professor, Department of Biology Training & Education University of Tehran 2 Full professor, Department of physiology, Tehran University 3, Assistant professor, Department of pharmacogenozy, Tehran University of Medical Sciences 4, Master of Hematology , Oroomieh Blood Transfusion Organization 5.



ABSTRACT

Introduction: Several clinical studies have confirmed the beneficial effect of plants extracts in the treatment of disorders. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the probable effects of vitex agnus?castus (VAC) on the male reproductive physiology, and also the dopaminergic agonist (Bromocriptine) on male mice.

Methods: In this experimental study, in order to evaluate, the medicinal effects of vitex agnus castus, we used the hydroalcoholic VAC. Extract injection with the following doses: 65, 165, 265,365 and 465 mg/kg; bromocriptine as a dopamine agonist receptor (5,10,20 mg/kg). To study the interaction between VAC. Extract and bromocriptine, we injected the optimum doses of VAC. with bromocriptine at the same time. Intraperitoneal injections were applied in all experiments, once a day for 30 days. The control group remained intact and the sham group received vehicle. After the last injection, we collected the animal blood serums for hormonal assays. For statistical analysis, analysis of variance was used and P<0.05 was considered significant.

Text Box: Correspondence: S.Nasri, PhD. Department of Biology Azad Eslami University parand branch Tehran, Iran Tel: +98 21 8283777 Email: S_nasri2000@yahoo.com


Results: LH and testostrone showed significant decrease in bromocriptine group. VAC. Extract decreased significantly the LH and Testosterone levels. The coadministration of VAC. Extract and bromocriptine decreased LH and testosterone.

Conclusion: These results suggest: Dopamine regulates the gonadotroph ? Leyding cells axis. It appears that VAC. Extract effects through dopaminergic system and other pathways.

iii. Human data: In a placebo controlled crossover double-blind study of 20 healthy men,
vitex had different effects on prolactin release at different concentrations. Men
received doses of 120 mg, 240 mg or 480 mg of a special vitex extract (BP1095E1)
daily for 14 days. There was a significant increase in prolactin level in men receiving
the lowest dose, but a slight reduction in prolactin level in those receiving the higher
doses26. There were no significant dose-dependent changes in the 24-hour serum
prolactin profile. The changes that occurred during the treatment period depended on
the baseline prolactin levels of the individual subjects7.

Liquorice
Many negative effects on hormones in men. Might do a thread on this.

Fish oil ethyl esters
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...54#post7043754

Octopamine for fat loss:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=Octopamine

Glycerine Monostearate
Ok Glycerine is far from useless. But apart from the fact that bulk glycerine is about 4-5$ per kilo at a drugstore, there are better ways to make this powdered than bondind it with lard

EVERYTHING homeopathic
http://www.homeowatch.org/
http://quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRela...ics/homeo.html

Tribulus Terrestris for getting Huuugeee(pretty good for mood and libido though imho)
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=27

L-Carnitine for fat loss(has other benefits though)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.humankinetics.com/IJSNEM/...B4xJ68Ctksite=

Kre-Alkalyn
How to make your own kre-alkalyn:Buy 100grams baking soda from your local grocery. Costs a few cents. Throw it in your regular mono. Voila. You just saved 10$. Nuff said. I'm not even going to adress the crappy claims that mono gets rapidly cyclyzed e.t.c.

Adrenal Gland Extract
http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...opics/ace.html

[Bane]

added upon OP's request:

Chromium
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=621929

[Bane]

3rd

[Bane]

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[Bane]

5th

[Bane]

6th

[Bane]

7th

[Bane]

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[Bane]

9th

[Bane]

10th

[Eversor]

Some additions to products:

DRP7 found Octopamine/Beta 3 agonists to be dangerous
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ght=Octopamine

Beta Alanine Ethyl ester by AEN
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ne+Ethyl+ester

Also I believe there was skepticism of TTA on Manipulation of PPAR Gamma.

[damnglass]

keep this post on top peeps,its good to see this unless your company has most ingridients in their profile.I love the methyl esters,this should be known the just because its methylated or estrified does not mean better oral delivery and absoprbtion and may inhibit it some,just as grapefruit juice is a touchy subject.

[bongd]

10th

Decuple bump!!

[ZDub212]

VERY nice job Bane.

[sizeNstrength]

I feel something sticky...

Wonderful idea Bane

[ZDub212]

What about chitosan for fat blocking/weight loss?

Homeopathic anything...including HGH.

CLA for fat loss in healthy weight adults.

Sesamin...any research on this? I haven't seen much.

CEE.

Ephedra (Not ma huang).

Most forms of tribulus.

MCTs.

[Bane]

Homeopathic anything...including HGH.

Agree on this
What is MCT?

[papagunz]

Agree on these 2.
What is MCT?

Medium Chain Triglycerides.

[Funeral Thirst]

5-star thread

Glycerine Monostearate
Ok Glycerine is far from useless. But apart from the fact that bulk glycerine is about 4-5$ per kilo at a drugstore, there are better ways to make this powdered than bondind it with lard

Bane, of all the people you are probably the one to answer this.

Why does the bulk glycerin at the drugstore say "Not for internal use"?

[Bane]

5-star thread



Bane, of all the people you are probably the one to answer this.

Why does the bulk glycerin at the drugstore say "Not for internal use"?

Is it 100% glycerine or does it contains any aromas e.t.c.?

[Bane]

I'd appreciate if offers for new entries came up with links to threads studies e.t.c. proving them useless

[Zachattack43]

What about HMB and NAG?

EDIT - well you linked Glutamine. All I know with HMB is its very expensive compound and leucine is cheaper and better. Also the studies that back HMB are conducted with Dr. Nissen in them who has/had a stake in the compound's success. Leucine on the other hand seems to have more positive studies conducted by various people.

[Bane]

What about HMB and NAG?

EDIT - well you linked Glutamine. All I know with HMB is its very expensive compound and leucine is cheaper and better. Also the studies that back HMB are conducted with Dr. Nissen in them who has/had a stake in the compound's success. Leucine on the other hand seems to have more positive studies conducted by various people.

Yes HMB in a poor choice indeed from a cost/effectiveness P.O.V. compared to my beloved leucine especially but I don't think that counts it as useless

[ahmadam]

Glycerine Monostearate
Ok Glycerine is far from useless. But apart from the fact that bulk glycerine is about 4-5$ per kilo at a drugstore, there are better ways to make this powdered than bondind it with lard

Could you explain or show some studies on it plz?

[Zachattack43]

Yes HMB in a poor choice indeed from a cost/effectiveness P.O.V. compared to my beloved leucine especially but I don't think that counts it as useless

Fair enough

[papagunz]

Glycerine Monostearate
Ok Glycerine is far from useless. But apart from the fact that bulk glycerine is about 4-5$ per kilo at a drugstore, there are better ways to make this powdered than bondind it with lard

Glycerol Thread by PA

[Sldge]

Tribulus.

Short term impact of Tribulus terrestris intake on doping control analysis of endogenous steroids.
Saudan C, Baume N, Emery C, Strahm E, Saugy M.
Swiss Laboratory for Doping Analyses, Institut Universitaire de M?decine L?gale, Centre Hospitalier Universitaire Vaudois and University of Lausanne, Chemin des Croisettes 22, 1066 Epalinges, Switzerland.
Tribulus terrestris is a nutritional supplement highly debated regarding its physiological and actual effects on the organism. The main claimed effect is an increase of testosterone anabolic and androgenic action through the activation of endogenous testosterone production. Even if this biological pathway is not entirely proven, T. terrestris is regularly used by athletes. Recently, the analysis of two female urine samples by GC/C/IRMS (gas chromatography/combustion/isotope-ratio-mass-spectrometry) conclusively revealed the administration of exogenous testosterone or its precursors, even if the testosterone glucuronide/epitestosterone glucuronide (T/E) ratio and steroid marker concentrations were below the cut-off values defined by World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). To argue against this adverse analytical finding, the athletes recognized having used T. terrestris in their diet. In order to test this hypothesis, two female volunteers ingested 500mg of T. terrestris, three times a day and for two consecutive days. All spot urines were collected during 48h after the first intake. The (13)C/(12)C ratio of ketosteroids was determined by GC/C/IRMS, the T/E ratio and DHEA concentrations were measured by GC/MS and LH concentrations by radioimmunoassay. None of these parameters revealed a significant variation or increased above the WADA cut-off limits. Hence, the short-term treatment with T. terrestris showed no impact on the endogenous testosterone metabolism of the two subjects.

The effect of five weeks of Tribulus terrestris supplementation on muscle strength and body composition during preseason training in elite rugby league players.
Rogerson S, Riches CJ, Jennings C, Weatherby RP, Meir RA, Marshall-Gradisnik SM.
School of Exercise Science and Sport Management, Southern Cross University Lismore, New South Wales, Australia. srogerson10@bigpond.com
Tribulus terrestris is an herbal nutritional supplement that is promoted to produce large gains in strength and lean muscle mass in 5-28 days (15, 18). Although some manufacturers claim T. terrestris will not lead to a positive drug test, others have suggested that T. terrestris may increase the urinary testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) ratio, which may place athletes at risk of a positive drug test. The purpose of the study was to determine the effect of T. terrestris on strength, fat free mass, and the urinary T/E ratio during 5 weeks of preseason training in elite rugby league players. Twenty-two Australian elite male rugby league players (mean +/- SD; age = 19.8 +/- 2.9 years; weight = 88.0 +/- 9.5 kg) were match-paired and randomly assigned in a double-blind manner to either a T. terrestris (n = 11) or placebo (n = 11) group. All subjects performed structured heavy resistance training as part of the club's preseason preparations. A T. terrestris extract (450 mg.d(-1)) or placebo capsules were consumed once daily for 5 weeks. Muscular strength, body composition, and the urinary T/E ratio were monitored prior to and after supplementation. After 5 weeks of training, strength and fat free mass increased significantly without any between-group differences. No between-group differences were noted in the urinary T/E ratio. It was concluded that T. terrestris did not produce the large gains in strength or lean muscle mass that many manufacturers claim can be experienced within 5-28 days. Furthermore, T. terrestris did not alter the urinary T/E ratio and would not place an athlete at risk of testing positive based on the World Anti-Doping Agency's urinary T/E ratio limit of 4:1.
PMID: 17530942 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males.
Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C.
Human Performance Laboratory, University of Nebraska, Kearney, NE 68849-3101, USA.
The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of the herbal preparation Tribulus terrestris (tribulus) on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Fifteen subjects were randomly assigned to a placebo or tribulus (3.21 mg per kg body weight daily) group. Body weight, body composition, maximal strength, dietary intake, and mood states were determined before and after an 8-week exercise (periodized resistance training) and supplementation period. There were no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total body water, dietary intake, or mood states in either group. Muscle endurance (determined by the maximal number of repetitions at 100-200% of body weight) increased for the bench and leg press exercises in the placebo group (p <.05; bench press +/-28.4%, leg press +/-28.6%), while the tribulus group experienced an increase in leg press strength only (bench press +/-3.1%, not significant; leg press +/-28.6%, p <.05). Supplementation with tribulus does not enhance body composition or exercise performance in resistance-trained males.
PMID: 10861339 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.
Neychev VK, Mitev VI.
Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. neychev@dir.bg
OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.
PMID: 15994038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
================================================== ==

In short, good as an aphrodisiac has no effect in humans for increasing testosterone or any anabolic hormones. Has no effect in humans for increasing strength or muscle mass.

[Bane]

Could you explain or show some studies on it plz?

Glycerine=good stuff. Keeps you hydrated, keeps BP from dropping e.t.c. The only problem with Glycerine is it is liquid, making it inappropriate for powdered/capped products.
Now GMS= glycerine bonded with stearic acid.
Staric acid=fat
Not only it is fat but is also weights 3 times more than glycerol.
There are far better forms of solid glycerol than this

[Bane]

In short, good as an aphrodisiac has no effect in humans for increasing testosterone or any anabolic hormones. Has no effect in humans for increasing strength or muscle mass.

Wait,, you mean A********* won't make me huge in 1 month?
Have to say I really like tribulus for the libido and mood effect though

[Bane]

Glycerol Thread by PA

I am hypotensive and during summers I have serious low blood pressure problems, much more intense when i work out. Glycerol has been very useful for keeping my blood pressure in check so far. From that P.O.V. i also think it is useful addition in NO products