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  1. #1
    Registered User prospa7's Avatar
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    Static Stretching Decreases Strength

    According to this article http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sp...=4&oref=slogin , static stretching decreases muscular strength by as much as 30%. However, dynamic stretches does not and is the only correct way to warm up. What's your take on this?
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    Hotly debated topic.

    Personally, I don't stretch before a workout. And I only do dynamic stretches before a game or practice.

    I can say from personal experience, static stretching does nothing good for your workout. It made me tired faster, and therefore weaker workouts.
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    I agree. So what dynamic stretches do you use to warm up your biceps and triceps?
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    None, specifically for bi's or tri's. When I warm up for a game, I do my A steps, B steps, punter steps, and some lunges for my legs. As well as take half a lap around the field to warm up.

    For upper body, I do some washing machines, and one or two truck rotations just to loosen my back, but doing too many gives me the same effect static stretching does, it just makes me feel tired and weak.

    Then I'll usually just get into a D-Line stance, even though I'm a linebacker primarily, and do a couple get offs and fire out quickly, and that'll just get me ready to play.

    I also do some shuffles, work on my catching, and my longsnapping before a game. And that's basically everything I do to warm up.
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    The science and practices of coaching have been pretty clear on this since the mid-90s. In fact alot of coaches do static stretches to weaken specific muscles (ala Joe D).


    As for bis and tris, why would you ever need to warm up either directly. If it's in the gym you will have most likely done rows, pull, presses etc before any direct arm work.
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    Static stretching destabilizes the muscles thus resulting in decreased power output, increased injury risk etc.

    Brilliant S&C coaches, who have athletes or head coaches who "must," static stretch prior to training, have been allowing them to static stretch then taking them through a restabilization phase. Alot of them do this without the head coach or atheletes really knowing, and it eliminates the negative effects of the static stretching making it as if they where never even performed.
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    Registered User Halothane's Avatar
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    The results in the study could stand only for isometric and isokinetic dynamometry, rather than for any other testing modality (1RM, vertical jump or running speed). Also, the reader must be aware that the volume of stretching is a major factor.

    I haven't seen the study, because I don't have the access to the NY Time database, but I'll throw majors evidences and explanation.

    Originally Posted by Mundy View Post
    Static stretching destabilizes the muscles thus resulting in decreased power output
    The mechanisms responsible for the reduced strength production after an acute static stretching exercise are not yet clarified. Stretch-induced strength deficit has been attributed to the musculotendinous system's length increase and muscle stiffness reduction.

    Kokkonen, J, Nelson, AG, and Cornwell, A. Acute muscle stretching inhibits maximal strength performance. Res Q Exerc Sport 69(4): 411-415, 1998.

    Magnusson, SP, Simonsen, EB, Aagaard, P, and Kjaer, M. Biomechanical responses to repeated stretches in human hamstring muscle in vivo. Am J Sports Med 24: 622-628, 1996.

    Wilson, GJ, Wood, GA, and Elliot, BC. The relationship between stiffness of the musculature and static flexibility: An alternative explanation for the occurrence of muscular injury. Int J Sports Med 12: 401-407, 1991.

    Now, if we look at new modality like VJP(Vertical Jump Performance).

    Lower volumes of acute static stretching can be performed without significantly compromising maximal force production. Strength and conditioning professionals can safely administer up to 1 minute of static stretching per muscle group to athletes in sports that require high levels of force production as long as the athlete has at least 4 minutes of rest after the stretch. The results also apply to recreational athletes and coaches because of the various groups tested in the study.

    Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research:Volume 22(3)May 2008pp 781-786

    Originally Posted by Mundy View Post
    Brilliant S&C coaches, who have athletes or head coaches who "must," static stretch prior to training, have been allowing them to static stretch then taking them through a restabilization phase.
    Could you please explain ? I don't see how a ''restabilization'' can be used. What do you mean by restabilization phase ? I suggest that during the ''restabilization phase'' used by some strengh coach. The muscle temperature droped and the H reflex deacrease his sensibility.

    Originally Posted by GregNuthurst View Post
    The science and practices of coaching have been pretty clear on this since the mid-90s. In fact alot of coaches do static stretches to weaken specific muscles (ala Joe D)
    The cause with any drecrease in performance is mainly an motor neuron excitability. Also, I would like to see study proving your claim or at least the method used.

    Halothane
    Last edited by Halothane; 12-26-2008 at 08:40 AM.
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  8. #8
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    30%? So If I was squatting 300 pounds max, I'd suddenly drop to 210?
    Likely less than that.

    That being said, dynamic always pre workout, always.
    static post workout.
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    Dynamic stretching has shown to excite the nervous system for movement.

    Arm Circles
    trunk twists
    Leg swings (forward/backward)
    Leg swings (across/body)
    body weight squats
    etc etc etc...

    Running drills like high knees butt kicks etc are considered a dynamic stretch also.

    Static stretching is great for flexibility but does not excite the body. Yeah your muscles will be stretched but due to a stretch hold, it inhibits the muscle from being at it's full potential power out put.

    Static stretching is great for after the workout. Your body is warm so now you can work on static stretching those troubled muscles. Most athletes I deal with have hip/hamstring flexibility issues.

    Static stretching is also great to just relax the body after a workout and help break up some of the wastes that were produced during the workout.


    Both stretching techniques have their places. Both being used, dynamic before, static after will ensure you a better workout, a better recovery and an overall better performance.


    That's what I have learned.
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    Baechle and Earle (2008) stated that static stretching decreases force production:

    Behm, D.G., D.C. Button, and J.C. Butt. Factors effecting force loss with prolonged stretching. Can J Apply Physiol 26(3): 261-272. 2001.

    Cramer, J.T., T.J. Housh, J.W. Coburn, T.W. Beck and G.O. Johnson. Acute effects of static stretching on maximal eccentric torque production in women. J Strength Cond Res 20(2):354-358. 2006.

    Cramer, J.T., T.J. Housh, G.O. Johnson, J.M. Miller, J.W. Coburn and T.W. Beck. Acute effects of static stretching on peak torque in women. J Strength Cond Res 18(2): 236-241. 2004.

    Cramer, J.T., T.J. Housh, J.P Wier, G.O. Johnson, J.W. Coburn and T.W. Beck. The acute effects of static stretching on peak torque, mean power output, electromyography and mechanomyopgraphy. Eur J Appl Physiol 93(5-6):530-539. 2005.

    Evetovich, T.K., N.J. Nauman, D.S. Conley, and J.B. Todd. Effect of static stretching of the biceps brachii torque, electromyography and mechanomyopgraphy during concentric isokenetic muscle actions. J Strength Cond Res 17(3):484-488. 2003.

    Power. K., D. Behm, F. Cahill, M. Carroll, and W. Young. An acute bout of static stretching: Effects on Force and jumping performance. Med Sci Sports Exerc 36(8):1389-1396. 2004.


    and power performance:

    Wallmann, H.W., J.A. Mercer, and J.W Mc Whoerter. Surface electromyographic assessment of the effect of static stretching of hte gastroc on vertical jump performance. J Strength Cond Res 19(3):684-688. 2005.

    Young, W.B., and D.G. Behm. Effects of running, static stretching and practice jumps on explosive force production and jumping performance, J Sports Med Physio Fitness 43(1):21-27. 2003.


    Originally Posted by Halothane View Post
    Could you please explain ? I don't see how a ''restabilization'' can be used. What do you mean by restabilization phase ? I suggest that during the ''restabilization phase'' used by some strengh coach. The muscle temperature droped and the H reflex deacrease his sensibility.
    My Senior strength and conditioning lecturer MSc CSCS UKSCA said it. I'll be happy to email him and ask how he would perform a restabilzation phase and what the exact physiological responses are. Are there any other specific questions which you would like me to put forward?
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    Originally Posted by Mundy View Post
    Are there any other specific questions which you would like me to put forward?
    I have never heard of something like that, I would like the big lines on the idea. Maybe they use different name or something, i'll see with his answer.
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    just callin in some bro science here, but dont you always feel faster in a high school game after doing high-knees and lunges with the team, than you did in rec. ball doing static toe touches and ****? gotta be a relation
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    OK. I'll PM you the answer as soon as I get it. Then I will dig up this topic and put it in here. Just to warn everyone he may take a while with it being Xmas, and it being his work email.
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    I am a proponent of dynamic-warmup prior to activity, however, according to the most recent study there was no variable amongst strength output (injury prevention is a different story however). IMO, strength-endurance should be a factor to be tested in the future.


    Pretesting Static and Dynamic Stretching Does Not Affect Maximal Strength.

    Original Research
    Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research. 22(6):1838-1843, November 2008.
    Beedle, Barry; Rytter, Scott J; Healy, Ryan C; Ward, Tara R

    Abstract:
    Beedle, B, Rytter, SJ, Healy, RC, and Ward, TR. Pretesting static and dynamic stretching does not affect maximal strength. J Strength Cond Res 22(6): 1838-1843, 2008-The purpose of this study was to determine whether there was a significant difference in static stretching (SS), dynamic stretching (DS), and no stretching (NS) on maximal strength (one-repetition maximum [1RM]) in the bench and leg presses using free weights on 19 college-aged men and 32 women. Most of the participants were moderately to very active and had previous experience with weight training. The design was repeated measures, with each treatment being randomly assigned. Each testing session was separated by 72 hours. Moderate-intensity stretching was defined as stretching as far as possible without any assistance, and subjects were encouraged to do their best. For the SS routine, the chest, shoulder, triceps, quadriceps, and hamstrings were stretched. Three repetitions were performed for 15 seconds, each separated by a 10-second rest. For DS, the upper-body stretch was swinging each arm, one at a time, as far forward and then as far backward as possible in a diagonal plane. For the legs, the same movement was done for each leg, except performed in a sagittal plane. Each forward and backward movement took about 2 seconds. Three 30-second sets were administered, and a 10-second rest was allowed between sets. Next, 1RM was determined for the bench and leg presses in random order. Two warm-up sets were given, followed by several 1RM attempts. The last successful lift was recorded as the 1RM. Data were reported using means +/- SD. A one-way ANOVA with repeated measures was used with alpha set at 0.05. There was no significant difference among the treatments. Moderate-intensity stretching does not seem to adversely affect 1RM in the bench and leg presses.

    (C) 2008 National Strength and Conditioning Association
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    Originally Posted by The_LB_43 View Post
    but dont you always feel faster in a high school game after doing high-knees and lunges with the team, than you did in rec.
    Muscle Temperature

    Originally Posted by Jhawk Fitness View Post
    I am a proponent of dynamic-warmup prior to activity, however, according to the most recent study there was no variable amongst strength output (injury prevention is a different story however). IMO, strength-endurance should be a factor to be tested in the future.
    1)They used two warm-up set and they used very active subjects.
    2)They just tested the Bench press and the Leg press, maybe in the Squat things would be differents. Even if the Leg press and the Squat share similar pattern.

    Like I said in my first post, the modality have to be in relation with the athletes, if they're not, its useless. Also, the volume of stretching is the most important factor, in the study you just posted, the volume is pretty low. Older studies have conclued the results, low volume static stretching doesn't affect 1RM performance.
    Last edited by Halothane; 12-28-2008 at 08:55 AM.
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    yes it's true,you should do dynamic stretches pre-work-out and static stretches only after the work-out to avoid injuries.
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    If this is true, why do NFL players static stretch before a game?
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    The Killer The_LB_43's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HardHitter22 View Post
    If this is true, why do NFL players static stretch before a game?
    NFL players suck, CFL's where its at =) jk lol
    ...*waits for DBB to appear*
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  19. #19
    The Killer The_LB_43's Avatar
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    kinda O/T but realted to topic, does anybody else feel a little more powerful squatting semi-cold? jus wonderin
    I rep U.S. Marines on sight.

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  20. #20
    PRIDE.NOT POWER thonez's Avatar
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    static stretching isn't bad if your muscle is TIGHT. We can sit around all day and talk about force output, but that won't mean **** when you blow out a hammy. Seriously guys.... STRETCH... dynamically before, statically after.

    All trainers use static stretches.... there are problem areas in atheletes and they can cause postural problems. For myself, I forcus my stretching on my pecs, deep glutes, hip flexors, and hamstrings, as they tend to get very tight.
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