When we pass away are we judged then to go to heaven or hell or do we wait.

[hank-williams]

Aha! See powerman, hank agrees with me in this matter.

No one knows for sure, but that is how I see it based on study. In reality it does not matter, it will happen, the how is what is in question here.

[nonAtlas]

Aha! See powerman, hank agrees with me in this matter.

Actually he agrees with the Bible, and the Bible says God is real and Jesus is God.

[Griever]

Actually he agrees with the Bible, and the Bible says God is real and Jesus is God.

I was not talking about that, I was talking about the topic of this thread.

[Tommy2010]

I am a Christian, let me say that from the beginning.

However.

When people do pass away and choose to be cremated, then how do their souls actually return to their bodies?

I guess that means it returns to their "emotional being" or something?

See, when Jesus was crucified and died, he was put in a tomb.

That is a lot different than being locked in a coffin many feet under the ground. I believe when you are telling everyone on here that they will rise from the dead on judgment day, you should say it is NOT their actual human body being "risen", but their spiritual being.

[raybbaby]

Easy, when you die, you're dead. That is all.

[hank-williams]

I am a Christian, let me say that from the beginning.

However.

When people do pass away and choose to be cremated, then how do their souls actually return to their bodies?

I guess that means it returns to their "emotional being" or something?

See, when Jesus was crucified and died, he was put in a tomb.

That is a lot different than being locked in a coffin many feet under the ground. I believe when you are telling everyone on here that they will rise from the dead on judgment day, you should say it is NOT their actual human body being "risen", but their spiritual being.

THis old fleshly body will rote, our soul or spirit man will stand before God. God will gather those under the sea and in the depths of the earth to stand before him.

[hank-williams]

Easy, when you die, you're dead. That is all.

YOu better hope you are right brah

[Griever]

I am a Christian, let me say that from the beginning.

However.

When people do pass away and choose to be cremated, then how do their souls actually return to their bodies?

I guess that means it returns to their "emotional being" or something?

See, when Jesus was crucified and died, he was put in a tomb.

That is a lot different than being locked in a coffin many feet under the ground. I believe when you are telling everyone on here that they will rise from the dead on judgment day, you should say it is NOT their actual human body being "risen", but their spiritual being.

No, it is their body. There is no "spiritual being". People are given new bodies.

[Tommy2010]

I've received two opposite reasons, haha.

[hank-williams]

I've received two opposite reasons, haha.

Now go to the Bible and find out which one you believe

[stealth_swimmer]

I'd be glad to.



"for the wages of the sin is death" Romans 6:23

Now several different words in the Bible are incorrectly translated into "hell", the ones I will talk about are the Hebrew "Sheol" from the OT and the Greek "Hades" in the NT. They are equivalent:

Acts 2:27: "Because You will not leave My soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption" is quoted from:

Psalm 16:10: "For You will not leave My soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption."

Sheol is incorrectly translated "hell" 31 times in the KJV, and it is correctly translated "grave" 31 times.

Sheol is also translated into "pit" 3 times:

1. "If these men DIED the common DEATH of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord has not sent me. But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the PIT [Heb: sheol]; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord."(Numbers 16:29-30).

2. "And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the GROUND clave asunder that was under them: and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the PIT [Heb: sheol] , and the EARTH closed upon them: and they PERISHED from among the congregation"(Numbers 16:31-33).

3. "If I wait, the GRAVE [Heb: sheol] is mine HOUSE: I have made my BED in the DARKNESS. I have said to CORRUPTION, You are my father; to the worm, You are my mother, and my sister. And where is now my hope? As for my hope, who shall see it? They shall go down to the bars of the PIT [Heb: sheol] , when our REST together is in the DUST" (Job 17:13-16).



Here are some verses where it is translated "grave"

"Do therefore according to your wisdom, and let not his hoar head go down to the grave [Heb: sheol] in PEACE" (I Kings 2:6).

"The Lord kills, and makes alive: He brings down to the grave [Heb: sheol], and brings up" (I Sam. 2:6).


And one that is quite interesting:

"But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah" (Psalm 49:15).

"What man is he that lives, and shall not see death? Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [Heb: sheol]. Selah" (Psalm 89:48).

"I will RANSOM them from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]; I will REDEEM them from death: O DEATH, I will be your plagues; O grave [Heb: sheol], I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes" (Hosea 13:14).



Here's some interesting verses where Sheol is translated "hell":

"For you will not leave my soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer Your Holy One to see corruption" (Psalm 16:10).

"For great is Thy mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest [depth of] hell [Heb: sheol]" (Psalm 86:13).

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell [Heb: sheol], behold, You are there" (Psalm 139:8).

"But he knows not that the DEAD are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell [Heb: sheol]" (Prov. 9:18).

"You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul from hell [Heb: sheol]" (Prov. 23:14).


So from these verses we know that the dead are in this "hell", God will deliver souls from "hell", and that God is actually IN HELL with you! That doesn't sound like a place of torture to me...

That's because SHEOL means "Grave" and "pit", it's the place people go when they die. It makes sense.




Here's some of the things we know about Sheol:



darkness, corruption, worms, rest in dust (Job 17:13-16)


down to sheol is DEATH and up from sheol is to MAKE ALIVE (I Sam. 2:6)


a CHANGE must come to live again (Job 14:14)


no thanks in sheol (Psalm 6:5)


it is silent in sheol (Psalm 31:17)


the DEAD are in sheol (Proverbs 9:18)


souls are REDEEMED from sheol (Psalm 49:15)


there is no work, device, knowledge or wisdom in sheol (Ecc. 9:10)


no praise in sheol (Isa. 38:18?not even from the RIGHTEOUS who are there)


God will RANSOM souls from sheol (Hosea 13:14)


sheol is a place of DEATH (Psalm 55:15)


the DEAD are in sheol (Psalm 139:8)


God is in sheol (Psalm 139:8)


God will DESTROY sheol (Hosea 13:14)




Thus ends the first half of my proof. It is clear that when people die they go to "sheol" which is simply a figurative "grave".

Interesting.

[Griever]

Interesting.

Yes it is interesting isn't it? Trolls like powerman2000 will lie and claim what I was saying has no basis in the Bible, but I refuted his verses that he presented to me and I proved my own claims.

[KRANE]

Easy, when you die, you're dead. That is all.

If that's true then why are you here in the first place?

Yes it is interesting isn't it? Trolls like powerman2000 will lie and claim what I was saying has no basis in the Bible, but I refuted his verses that he presented to me and I proved my own claims.

He's hardly a troll; and you can't prove your own claim. That's like saying, it's true because I say it's true. A meaningless reponse, if that.

[Griever]

If that's true then why are you here in the first place?

Life has more meaning if we only live for a finite length of time.

If that's true then why are you here in the first place?He's hardly a troll; and you can't prove your own claim. That's like saying, it's true because I say it's true. A meaningless reponse if that.

I proved that what I am saying is biblical and scriptural, I proved that what he is saying is not.

[nonAtlas]

Yes it is interesting isn't it? Trolls like powerman2000 will lie and claim what I was saying has no basis in the Bible, but I refuted his verses that he presented to me and I proved my own claims.

Actually you didn't. This...

"But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah"

...means just as the New Testament says. Namely that the curse of sin and death that each one of us is under was done away with by Messiah for each person who accepts Him as Savior. It says precisely nothing about "ending hell" or "saving everyone", because the price of salvation is just as the Bible says and I told you a few words to the north.

Merry Christmas. America bless God.

[Griever]

Actually you didn't. This...

"But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah"

...means just as the New Testament says. Namely that the curse of sin and death that each one of us is under was done away with by Messiah for each person who accepts Him as Savior. It says precisely nothing about "ending hell" or "saving everyone", because the price of salvation is just as the Bible says and I told you a few words to the north.

Merry Christmas. America bless God.

Hello there friend, yes I believe I did. I appreciate your opinion but you are wrong, I at least back up what I say with verses from the Bible.

"For you will not leave my soul in hell; neither will You suffer Your Holy One to see corruption" (Psalm 16:10).

"For great is Thy mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest hell" (Psalm 86:13).

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there" (Psalm 139:8).


This "hell" of yours doesn't seem like such a bad place after all!

[OboePlayaz1988]

Do we wait until judgement day?
Do only a select view enter heaven when they pass away or not?
Do most wait until judgement day to see where they will go for enternity?

How is it in the catholic/Christian view?

Hello there. I posted something about Purgatory in another thread. Hope it helps you . Merry Christmas.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...1&postcount=17

[Griever]

Actually you didn't. This...

"But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah"

...means just as the New Testament says. Namely that the curse of sin and death that each one of us is under was done away with by Messiah for each person who accepts Him as Savior. It says precisely nothing about "ending hell" or "saving everyone", because the price of salvation is just as the Bible says and I told you a few words to the north.

Merry Christmas. America bless God.

And to correct you again, there are actually quite a few verses that prove that every one is saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.

And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:2.

Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29.

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom. 6:7

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave Himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time (I Tim. 2:5-6).

For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him (John 3:17).

We have seen, and do testify, that
the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14.

1 Timothy 4:9-11:
This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.





And if you would be so kind as you answer this for me...do you not like the idea of everyone being saved? Or do you enjoy the idea of people suffering for all time?

I have shown you clear proof that all mankind is saved, it is saddening to me that you would reject it so readily in favor of false teachings.

[nonAtlas]

Hello there friend, yes I believe I did. I appreciate your opinion but you are wrong, I at least back up what I say with verses from the Bible.

"For you will not leave my soul in hell; neither will You suffer Your Holy One to see corruption" (Psalm 16:10).

"For great is Thy mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest hell" (Psalm 86:13).

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there" (Psalm 139:8).


This "hell" of yours doesn't seem like such a bad place after all!

First of all "hell" is not mine; it is yours, at least according to the frame of mind you have displayed. Second who wrote those psalms? David, an anointed king and psalmist devoted to God, chosen by God above his older brothers to serve the Lord and rule the people after Saul blew it. So in other words he knew the Lord and he was in right standing with Him, so it is completely about him that those words are true. It is not a truth spoken about each individual in history, and the lake of fire is eternal and beyond doubt. You are born again...you spend eternity with the Savior. You tell Him to shove it...you don't have to worry about being with Him.

No charge for this Bible Truth Seminar.

[Griever]

First of all "hell" is not mine; it is yours, at least according to the frame of mind you have displayed. Second who wrote those psalms? David, an anointed king and psalmist devoted to God, chosen by God above his older brothers to serve the Lord and rule the people after Saul blew it. So in other words he knew the Lord and he was in right standing with Him, so it is completely about him that those words are true. It is not a truth spoken about each individual in history, and the lake of fire is eternal and beyond doubt. You are born again...you spend eternity with the Savior. You tell Him to shove it...you don't have to worry about being with Him.

No charge for this Bible Truth Seminar.

Again, I appreciate your opinions but it is clear that you know very little about the Bible.

Thanks anyway, though!

[nonAtlas]

And to correct you again, there are actually quite a few verses that prove that every one is saved.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.

And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:2.

Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29.

For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom. 6:7

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus who gave Himself a ransom for ALL to be testified in due time (I Tim. 2:5-6).

For God does not dispatch His Son into the world that He should be judging the world, but that the world may be saved through Him (John 3:17).

We have seen, and do testify, that
the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14.

1 Timothy 4:9-11:
This is a faithful saying worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.





And if you would be so kind as you answer this for me...do you not like the idea of everyone being saved? Or do you enjoy the idea of people suffering for all time?

I have shown you clear proof that all mankind is saved, it is saddening to me that you would reject it so readily in favor of false teachings.

Sorry but you are wrong. Those epistles were written by, to and about the saints whose salvation was assured by their having been born again and forgiven. That context and the words themselves say there is no other path to salvation, and damnation is eternal for those who choose it by telling Jesus what to do to Himself.

This is Bible truth and it is in no danger of being imperiled by your crazy ideas. Have a fine Christmas. He was born of a virgin to save all who accept Him; those who reject Him screw themselves.

[nonAtlas]

Again, I appreciate your opinions but it is clear that you know very little about the Bible.

Thanks anyway, though!

Personal attacks don't bother me, so you have wasted your time and a tiny bit of space on the server. I have proven my point and it is of no interest to me to bang my head against a wall with people whose minds have been made up to choose not God but rather the world. Suit yourself.

[Griever]

Sorry but you are wrong. Those epistles were written by, to and about the saints whose salvation was assured by their having been born again and forgiven. That context and the words themselves say there is no other path to salvation, and damnation is eternal for those who choose it by telling Jesus what to do to Himself.

This is Bible truth and it is in no danger of being imperiled by your crazy ideas. Have a fine Christmas. He was born of a virgin to save all who accept Him; those who reject Him screw themselves.

I forgive you, and it is you who are wrong!

They are clearly referring to the whole world, they prove that everyone is saved. This is a joyful message, so why do you reject it in favor of hate and anger?

You seem like a very bitter and miserable person, and given the fact that you would prefer your hateful and clearly incorrect teachings, I truly do feel bad for you.

[Griever]

Personal attacks don't bother me, so you have wasted your time and a tiny bit of space on the server. I have proven my point and it is of no interest to me to bang my head against a wall with people whose minds have been made up to choose not God but rather the world. Suit yourself.

Oh it wasn't a personal attack, if you think it was then perhaps you should grow a thicker skin! You can't go through life crying about such simple things, in my opinion.

And again, I mean no offense by this, but it is quite obvious that you are a casual christian and possess little knowledge of the Bible.

I am more than happy to educate you in this subject, though!

[hank-williams]

Again, I appreciate your opinions but it is clear that you know very little about the Bible.

Thanks anyway, though!

There are no scriptures that say everyone is saved apart from knowing Jesus and accepting him. if so, please, shall we see?

[Griever]

There are no scriptures that say everyone is saved apart from knowing Jesus and accepting him. if so, please, shall we see?

Actually there are quite a few scriptures that say everyone is saved, using words like "the world", "all", "mankind", "all men".

Saying that everyone is not saved is like denying the Bible, and saying these verses have an opposite meaning to what they are actually saying. It's adding to the Bible, and I believe that is a sin.

[nonAtlas]

Oh it wasn't a personal attack, if you think it was then perhaps you should grow a thicker skin! You can't go through life crying about such simple things, in my opinion.

And again, I mean no offense by this, but it is quite obvious that you are a casual christian and possess little knowledge of the Bible.

I am more than happy to educate you in this subject, though!

Thanks so much but I have already done that favor for you. And as you know not the first thing about me it is obvious that you need to step back and take a breath. You are proven wrong and the Bible remains true in spite of your resentment of that truth.

I hope you liked your presents.

[nonAtlas]

Actually there are quite a few scriptures that say everyone is saved, using words like "the world", "all", "mankind", "all men".

...in the context of that salvation coming because of the individual's accepting of the Savior. The Word of God is bold and clear about non-born-again persons being lost for eternity to come. Tough luck.

[Griever]

Thanks so much but I have already done that favor for you. And as you know not the first thing about me it is obvious that you need to step back and take a breath. You are proven wrong and the Bible remains true in spite of your resentment of that truth.

I hope you liked your presents.

You simply offered your opinion, which is clearly incorrect. I proved what I said with Bible. Clearly you aren't on the same level as me in terms of Bible knowledge, kind sir. However, I enjoy teaching laymen like yourself.

Oh, I do like them!

[nonAtlas]

There are no scriptures that say everyone is saved apart from knowing Jesus and accepting him. if so, please, shall we see?

+1