When we pass away are we judged then to go to heaven or hell or do we wait.

[Griever]

Sure. I'm mad that some brat from bum-fuk USA such as yourself would make that arrogant statement. After burying my mother yesterday, the 300+ people who showed up to her funeral were a testament to the effect she had on everyone who she came across in life. This effect is carried with everyone she touched. Maybe you and FullSack's life are meaningless, because neither of you have contributed anything of value to anyone. And probably never will.

Just because there is no god doesn't mean our lives don't have meaning. Our lives have MORE meaning in my opinion.

Your mother affected so many people when she was alive and her actions and words will echo throughout eternity (serious). She will be remembered and the things she did will have effects that no one could ever understand or even guess.

[ryan250]

Sure. I'm mad that some brat from bum-fuk USA such as yourself would make that arrogant statement. After burying my mother yesterday, the 300+ people who showed up to her funeral were a testament to the effect she had on everyone who she came across in life. This effect is carried with everyone she touched. Maybe you and FullSack's life are meaningless, because neither of you have contributed anything of value to anyone. And probably never will.

Yep, u mad.

Sorry for the loss, I really am. But my personal beliefs shouldn't have any effect on you. That is, unless you are not confident in your own beliefs. Which is obviously the case.

[aidsman2003]

No prob man a lot of these guys will tell you that you are judged immediately after death and then your "soul" goes to heaven or hell, but then on judgement day your soul goes back to your body and you get resurrected and then you get judged again and then you go to heaven or hell again...

but that doesn't make any sense, nor could they back that up with the Bible at all.

What about the Holyiest of people Mary, Joseph, Moses, Noah, Apostles then the class of saints, popes, bishops apostles.

Did they go straight to heaven or are they waiting to be judged? I know death is pretty much a mystery because God does work sometimes in mysterious ways for the Lord.

[SaviorSix]

Yep, u mad.

Sorry for the loss, I really am. But my personal beliefs shouldn't have any effect on you. That is, unless you are not confident in your own beliefs. Which is obviously the case.

Then kill yourself, do us all a favor, and at the same time you can be true to your "beliefs". Which aren't even really beliefs, you are just too lazy and uninspired.

[ryan250]

Then kill yourself, do us all a favor, and at the same time you can be true to your "beliefs". Which aren't even really beliefs, you are just too lazy and uninspired.

Strong Christian.

[powerman2000]

We are no longer a living soul when we die. It kinda makes sense. When we die we go to the grave, which the Hebrews called "Sheol".

This is because of our sin, which if you remember from Genesis, the wages of which is death.

Once Christ died he made it possible for us to be resurrected like he was because he abolished the sin of the world.

I'm just trying to be clear on what you believe.

So, until judgement day when every physical body, believers and non-believers alike, are resurrected, we cease to exist at all until that time?

Is that your position?

[powerman2000]

Then kill yourself, do us all a favor, and at the same time you can be true to your "beliefs". Which aren't even really beliefs, you are just too lazy and uninspired.

Whoa, whoa, you crossed a line here bro.

[SaviorSix]

Strong Christian.

I'm not a Christian. I didn't mention anything about heaven or hell. The part I quoted was


..your existance is of no importance or value, no one cares except other worthless individuals who you've formed bonds with, nothing is looking down on your sorry insignificant ass. You are a worthless piece of nothing. Good day sir.

[Griever]

What about the Holyiest of people Mary, Joseph, Moses, Noah, Apostles then the class of saints, popes, bishops apostles.

Did they go straight to heaven or are they waiting to be judged? I know death is pretty much a mystery because God does work sometimes in mysterious ways for the Lord.

To tell you the truth I am not sure if Mary and Joseph and Noah ascended to heaven.

I know a couple of the prophets did. I think Elijah and Moses ascended to heaven?

The main thing that I'm saying is that everyone, regardless of their works in this life, when they die, they are dead.

When you die, it's like waking up because all the time that passed by when you were dead is like the blink of an eye.



"Behold I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." I Cor. 15: 51, 52

[Griever]

I'm just trying to be clear on what you believe.

So, until judgement day when every physical body, believers and non-believers alike, are resurrected, we cease to exist at all until that time?

Is that your position?

Our physical bodies decay and our minds die. We no longer experience anything because our brains are dead and therefore we cannot think or be alive. It's common sense, no offense. Just like how Christ died...he was dead for three days! He didn't go to heaven...he was dead! Then he was resurrected.

Then on judgment day everyone is resurrected and judged.

[ryan250]

little homo negged me

lulz hes furious

[Griever]

Sorry I gotta go, if anyone has any questions or would like to see the scripture that proves this feel free to ask.

[aidsman2003]

Sorry I gotta go, if anyone has any questions or would like to see the scripture that proves this feel free to ask.

Please post it.

[powerman2000]

Sorry I gotta go, if anyone has any questions or would like to see the scripture that proves this feel free to ask.

I'm asking.

With what you believe, how do you reconcile Ecclesiastes 12:7, and Luke 23:43, and Luke 16:25, and Philippians 1:23, and 2 Corinthians 5:8. And in light of your recent post I can't wait to hear your response to Revelation 6:9-11, as it pertains to what you believe to be true.

Too bad what you believe isn't biblical.

[KRANE]

We wait. The Bible says we will be judged at the end of time--and that hasn't occured yet. But I believe you know where you're going after you die.

[powerman2000]

Please post it.

Dude, he doesn't know what he's talking about, and it's grossly blatant.

[powerman2000]

We wait. But I believe you know where you're going after you die.

Wait where?

[SYRIANKID]

In the Islamic view, when someone dies, their soul is violently stripped from them by angels who are dispatched to end their life. Whether this is painful or not depends on their sinfulness.

Eventually his soul is united with his body wherever it is laid to rest. At this point, a questioning period takes place where angels are instructed to ask the dead "Who is your God? Who is your Prophet? Upon which Divine Book did you rely?" and "What did you used to say about the Prophet Muhammad?"

Any disfavorable answers to these questions result in a severe bludgeoning by the angels.

Depending on the sinfulness of the individual, the temporary domain of the grave can either be a relaxing meadow where someone briefly rests and worships God, or it can be a place where their bones are crushed by pressure and reptiles/scorpions are made to sting them until they are resurrected on the Day of Judgment.

Finally, the Day of Judgment takes place, and I have outlined it here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=day+judgment

Everyone ever created is resurrected by God, naked, and forced to bear witness against themselves based on everything they believed and said. Anyone who rejected God's revelations and Prophets (pbut) on that day will have all their good deeds nullified and they will enter Hellfire. The extent of their sins will plunge them deeper into Hell depending on how sinful they were.

Anyone who believed in God's revelations and His Prophets (pbut) will enter Paradise, and the extent of their good deeds will propel them higher into the ranks of Paradise.

You can learn more about Islam here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=106287451

[nonAtlas]

Do we wait until judgement day?
Do only a select view enter heaven when they pass away or not?
Do most wait until judgement day to see where they will go for enternity?

How is it in the Christian view?

You will know with absolute certainty prior to dying where you are going. Upon death you are instantly in the Lord's presence or in the cold isolation that is separation from Him. There is no mystery surrounding "judgement day", as the only thing to be revealed there is the depth of your reward or punishment. And there are more than one judgement. The first judgement is that of the saints who die saved and hear their rewards for living for Him. This happens after the Savior takes us home to be with Him. The second judgement is for the sinners, who know where they are going but need to hear how severe the punishment shall be. There can't be any "judgement day" where anyone is uncertain where he/she is going to spend eternity.

[nonAtlas]

We wait. The Bible says we will be judged at the end of time--and that hasn't occured yet. But I believe you know where you're going after you die.

So says the Watchtower Society, but they aren't christians or Bible people.

[KRANE]

Wait where?

There is a waiting place for those who have passed on but is not the final heaven or hell. Some referred to this place as hades. The Bible also give references to people that
exist in such a place.

In addition, the final resting place is achieved only "after" the judgement, which doesn't occur until the end of time.

So says the Watchtower Society, but they aren't christians or Bible people.

I wouldn't know. But I did say the Bible.

[nonAtlas]

There is a waiting place for those who have passed on but is not the final heaven or hell. Some referred to this place as hades. The Bible also give references to people that
exist in such a place.

Chapter and verse, please. Also I would appreciate reading which Bible translation you find that in.

In addition, the final resting place is achieved only "after" the judgement, which doesn't occur until the end of time.

Not true. For us saints the judgement happens immediately after the Rapture of the church, which happens at the end of this Age of Grace. For the sinners (the damned) it happens later.

[nonAtlas]

What about the Holyiest of people Mary, Joseph, Moses, Noah, Apostles then the class of saints, popes, bishops apostles.

Those people are no holier than I or any other saint, which is what we born-again believers are by definition of the word. All of those were sinning people who doubted God and tested His patience just as each of us does.

[nonAtlas]

There is a waiting place for those who have passed on but is not the final heaven or hell. Some referred to this place as hades. The Bible also give references to people that
exist in such a place.

In addition, the final resting place is achieved only "after" the judgement, which doesn't occur until the end of time.I wouldn't know. But I did say the Bible.

Chapter and verse, please.

[Griever]

I'm asking.

With what you believe, how do you reconcile Ecclesiastes 12:7, and Luke 23:43, and Luke 16:25, and Philippians 1:23, and 2 Corinthians 5:8. And in light of your recent post I can't wait to hear your response to Revelation 6:9-11, as it pertains to what you believe to be true.

Too bad what you believe isn't biblical.

I reconcile them very easily.

You're mixing up spirit and soul. In the Bible the two words have very different meanings.


souls can touch (Lev. 5:2)

souls have knowledge (Pr. 2:10)

souls have memory (Lam. 3:20)

souls can love, and be joyful (Psa. 35:9; 86:4)

souls can hunger and thirst (Deut. 14:26)

souls can sin (Lev. 4:2)

life can be given to a soul (Job 3:20)

souls can die (Ezek. 18:20)

souls can be converted (Psa. 19:7)

none can keep alive his (own) soul (Psa. 22:29)

honey is sweet to the soul (Pr. 16:24)

even God has a soul (Lev. 26:11, I Sam. 2:35, Jer. 32:41)

souls can hear (Acts 3:22-23)

souls can experience pleasure (Heb. 10:3)

souls can be purified (I Pet. 1:22)

and souls can receive salvation (I Pet. 1:9).


The spirit is the life that the soul has. It is the spirit that imparts life to the body and the body then becomes a living soul (Gen. 2:7).




As for Revelation 6:9-11, some have cited these verses to validate the immortal soul doctrine and the belief that, upon death, people go to heaven. However, this description is not literal, but rather is entirely symbolic. The Bible plainly teaches that souls are mortal.

In vision, the apostle John saw before him a book or scroll sealed with seven seals. As Christ opened each seal (Rev. 5:5), John was shown a preview of an event that would happen in the future ("hereafter" [4:1]). Since John was "in the spirit" as the seven seals were opened (vs. 2), the events he witnessed were not actually occurring at that time. They were heavenly previews of things that would happen later on earth.

Upon the opening of the fifth seal (Rev. 6:9), John "saw under [at the base of] the altar the souls of them that were slain." Christ had shown the meaning of the seven seals when He was on earth. He explained that the fifth seal symbolizes the coming time of Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:9-28), an event that will occur on earth.

In this vision, John was shown the future, this modern age, a time when one martyrdom has already taken place (during the Middle Ages) and a greater one (the Great Tribulation) is yet to happen. The souls who were "slain" (martyred Christian throughout the ages) were told, in Revelation 6:11, to "rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Those who have died will continue to "rest" (remain asleep [Eph. 5:14; I Cor. 11:30] in their graves), until others are also martyred as they were.

The "souls" (dead saints) crying "avenge our blood" (vs. 10) is akin to Abel's blood (his life [note Lev. 17:14]) crying to God from the earth (Gen. 4:10). Since blood does not talk and neither do the dead (Psa. 115:17; Ecc. 9:5, 10), we understand the meaning to be symbolic, not literal. Therefore, the "souls under the altar" represent those awaiting the future martyrdom of saints.

[KRANE]

Chapter and verse, please. Also I would appreciate reading which Bible translation you find that in.

That was a big lesson, and one of great debate. It also relates to several biblical verse which I have to look up. Rest assured, I'll get back to you.

Not true. For us saints the judgement happens immediately after the Rapture of the church, which happens at the end of this Age of Grace. For the sinners (the damned) it happens later.

It is you, who are mistaken.

[Griever]

Please post it.

I'd be glad to.



"for the wages of the sin is death" Romans 6:23

Now several different words in the Bible are incorrectly translated into "hell", the ones I will talk about are the Hebrew "Sheol" from the OT and the Greek "Hades" in the NT. They are equivalent:

Acts 2:27: "Because You will not leave My soul in hell [Gk: hades], neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption" is quoted from:

Psalm 16:10: "For You will not leave My soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer your Holy One to see corruption."

Sheol is incorrectly translated "hell" 31 times in the KJV, and it is correctly translated "grave" 31 times.

Sheol is also translated into "pit" 3 times:

1. "If these men DIED the common DEATH of all men, or if they be visited after the visitation of all men; then the Lord has not sent me. But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the PIT [Heb: sheol]; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord."(Numbers 16:29-30).

2. "And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the GROUND clave asunder that was under them: and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the PIT [Heb: sheol] , and the EARTH closed upon them: and they PERISHED from among the congregation"(Numbers 16:31-33).

3. "If I wait, the GRAVE [Heb: sheol] is mine HOUSE: I have made my BED in the DARKNESS. I have said to CORRUPTION, You are my father; to the worm, You are my mother, and my sister. And where is now my hope? As for my hope, who shall see it? They shall go down to the bars of the PIT [Heb: sheol] , when our REST together is in the DUST" (Job 17:13-16).



Here are some verses where it is translated "grave"

"Do therefore according to your wisdom, and let not his hoar head go down to the grave [Heb: sheol] in PEACE" (I Kings 2:6).

"The Lord kills, and makes alive: He brings down to the grave [Heb: sheol], and brings up" (I Sam. 2:6).


And one that is quite interesting:

"But God will REDEEM MY SOUL from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]: for he shall receive me. Selah" (Psalm 49:15).

"What man is he that lives, and shall not see death? Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [Heb: sheol]. Selah" (Psalm 89:48).

"I will RANSOM them from the power of the grave [Heb: sheol]; I will REDEEM them from death: O DEATH, I will be your plagues; O grave [Heb: sheol], I will be your destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes" (Hosea 13:14).



Here's some interesting verses where Sheol is translated "hell":

"For you will not leave my soul in hell [Heb: sheol]; neither will You suffer Your Holy One to see corruption" (Psalm 16:10).

"For great is Thy mercy toward me: and you have delivered my soul from the lowest [depth of] hell [Heb: sheol]" (Psalm 86:13).

"If I ascend up into heaven, You are there: if I make my bed in hell [Heb: sheol], behold, You are there" (Psalm 139:8).

"But he knows not that the DEAD are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell [Heb: sheol]" (Prov. 9:18).

"You shall beat him with the rod, and shall deliver his soul from hell [Heb: sheol]" (Prov. 23:14).


So from these verses we know that the dead are in this "hell", God will deliver souls from "hell", and that God is actually IN HELL with you! That doesn't sound like a place of torture to me...

That's because SHEOL means "Grave" and "pit", it's the place people go when they die. It makes sense.




Here's some of the things we know about Sheol:



darkness, corruption, worms, rest in dust (Job 17:13-16)


down to sheol is DEATH and up from sheol is to MAKE ALIVE (I Sam. 2:6)


a CHANGE must come to live again (Job 14:14)


no thanks in sheol (Psalm 6:5)


it is silent in sheol (Psalm 31:17)


the DEAD are in sheol (Proverbs 9:18)


souls are REDEEMED from sheol (Psalm 49:15)


there is no work, device, knowledge or wisdom in sheol (Ecc. 9:10)


no praise in sheol (Isa. 38:18?not even from the RIGHTEOUS who are there)


God will RANSOM souls from sheol (Hosea 13:14)


sheol is a place of DEATH (Psalm 55:15)


the DEAD are in sheol (Psalm 139:8)


God is in sheol (Psalm 139:8)


God will DESTROY sheol (Hosea 13:14)




Thus ends the first half of my proof. It is clear that when people die they go to "sheol" which is simply a figurative "grave".

[nonAtlas]

That was a big lesson, and one of great debate. It also relates to several biblical verse which I have to look up. Rest assured, I'll get back to you.

Thank you.

It is you, who are mistaken.

Nope. My words to which you responded are straight from the Word of God.

[hank-williams]

My understanding is when we pass away our body returns to the dust ( In the grave) When Jesus comes back he will cause the dead to rise and all that remain and we wil stand before God and give account for our life.

[Griever]

My understanding is when we pass away our body returns to the dust ( In the grave) When Jesus comes back he will cause the dead to rise and all that remain and we wil stand before God and give account for our life.

Aha! See powerman, hank agrees with me in this matter.