Me vs Me... the finale!

[The_Animal11]

-> Legs: Seated Leg Curls / Seated Leg Extensions / Calves Raises

this part makes Mr. Fat Loss very sad. you're taking the muscle group that has the BIGGEST ability to tear through substrates with big, compound moves, and giving it little tiny exercises to do. i know these are easier exercises to do for someone whos not in the gym much, but these arent anywhere near the best exercises for her goals.

Women don't lose weight as well on a high carb diet vs. high fat...it's part of our biological make up (look up 17 Beta Estradiol).

We burn fat more efficiently as fuel than men.

So I would bump her fats up to 50, and take her carbs down. Also, get her to stick with healthy, complex, starchy carbs...and TONS of veggies. Get her to have them earlier in the day

i gotta agree with Jaime on this one. i thought the same thing when I read this. You can lose weight pretty well with a 50% carb split, but shes just not gunna use it as easily. sweet potatos, broc. and spinach FTW!

[toddbz]

Why wouldn't it be good to go below 40? 20-40 with complex carbs would help control insulin, blood sugar, and give her enough energy to workout, even at high intensities...

i gotta agree with Jaime on this one. i thought the same thing when I read this. You can lose weight pretty well with a 50% carb split, but shes just not gunna use it as easily. sweet potatos, broc. and spinach FTW!

Did you guys even read the study?

[Quelly]

well...In my professional opinion as a student of fitness and wellness, and a personal trainer with 5 years of experience with 60% female clientele which 90% of whom are looking for weight loss and are overweight...I have found that moderate carb, high protein, low fat diets tend to provide the best balance between perfromance enhancement in the gym, favorable lipid profiles, the best long term compliance, and the least amount of rebound weight gain when someone goes off the diet and binges, or after they meet their goal weight and attempt a maintenance program.

I AM NOT talking about the best 12-16 week contest prep strategy...I can't tell you how many bodybuilder/personal trainers have ruined clients metabolisms by putting them on prep diets in which they'd lose 15-20lbs (when they needed to lose 100+lbs) and then completely stall out because they keto'ed them and had them in a 1000kcal deficit doing cardio everyday.

Carl's wife doesn't even want to count calories...we are talking about an everyday person, someone who doesn't subscribe to bodybuilding magazines and spend hours a/day on the bodybuilding forums...we are talking about a lifestyle change in diet...and in my opinion the research is pretty clear...I don't think a low carb diet would be terrible, it would work, she would lose a similar amount of weight...but it just isn't optimal in my opinion.

I already covered the studies in my earlier post about exercise and substrate use...here's a study about the lipid profiles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

and here's one showing an improvment in glucose tolerance and lowering of ldl
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

and here's one just showing the lifestyle trends and correlations between high and low fat diets and obesity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

But in the end Carl, whatever academic issues we may discuss here, the best nutrition plan is the one she can follow consistently....if she can hit her caloric goal and feel good on a low carb or no carb diet and maintain it for the 1+ year long road ahead of her, I'm all for it.

[bryce126]

well...In my professional opinion as a student of fitness and wellness, and a personal trainer with 5 years of experience with 60% female clientele which 90% of whom are looking for weight loss and are overweight...I have found that moderate carb, high protein, low fat diets tend to provide the best balance between perfromance enhancement in the gym, favorable lipid profiles, the best long term compliance, and the least amount of rebound weight gain when someone goes off the diet and binges, or after they meet their goal weight and attempt a maintenance program.

I AM NOT talking about the best 12-16 week contest prep strategy...I can't tell you how many bodybuilder/personal trainers have ruined clients metabolisms by putting them on prep diets in which they'd lose 15-20lbs (when they needed to lose 100+lbs) and then completely stall out because they keto'ed them and had them in a 1000kcal deficit doing cardio everyday.

Carl's wife doesn't even want to count calories...we are talking about an everyday person, someone who doesn't subscribe to bodybuilding magazines and spend hours a/day on the bodybuilding forums...we are talking about a lifestyle change in diet...and in my opinion the research is pretty clear...I don't think a low carb diet would be terrible, it would work, she would lose a similar amount of weight...but it just isn't optimal in my opinion.

I already covered the studies in my earlier post about exercise and substrate use...here's a study about the lipid profiles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

and here's one showing an improvment in glucose tolerance and lowering of ldl
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

and here's one just showing the lifestyle trends and correlations between high and low fat diets and obesity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

But in the end Carl, whatever academic issues we may discuss here, the best nutrition plan is the one she can follow consistently....if she can hit her caloric goal and feel good on a low carb or no carb diet and maintain it for the 1+ year long road ahead of her, I'm all for it.

this post right here sums it up. i've dealt with the same thing in clients and the most important thing is something they can follow and won't rebound to balloon proportions after eating something they shouldn't have. succinct and precise answer, and reps.

[The Solution]

Say it with me now..

ERIC FTW!!!

This man brings his **** day in and day out on these forums.

[The_Animal11]

well...In my professional opinion as a student of fitness and wellness, and a personal trainer with 5 years of experience with 60% female clientele which 90% of whom are looking for weight loss and are overweight...I have found that moderate carb, high protein, low fat diets tend to provide the best balance between perfromance enhancement in the gym, favorable lipid profiles, the best long term compliance, and the least amount of rebound weight gain when someone goes off the diet and binges, or after they meet their goal weight and attempt a maintenance program.

I AM NOT talking about the best 12-16 week contest prep strategy...I can't tell you how many bodybuilder/personal trainers have ruined clients metabolisms by putting them on prep diets in which they'd lose 15-20lbs (when they needed to lose 100+lbs) and then completely stall out because they keto'ed them and had them in a 1000kcal deficit doing cardio everyday.

Carl's wife doesn't even want to count calories...we are talking about an everyday person, someone who doesn't subscribe to bodybuilding magazines and spend hours a/day on the bodybuilding forums...we are talking about a lifestyle change in diet...and in my opinion the research is pretty clear...I don't think a low carb diet would be terrible, it would work, she would lose a similar amount of weight...but it just isn't optimal in my opinion.

I already covered the studies in my earlier post about exercise and substrate use...here's a study about the lipid profiles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

and here's one showing an improvment in glucose tolerance and lowering of ldl
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

and here's one just showing the lifestyle trends and correlations between high and low fat diets and obesity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

But in the end Carl, whatever academic issues we may discuss here, the best nutrition plan is the one she can follow consistently....if she can hit her caloric goal and feel good on a low carb or no carb diet and maintain it for the 1+ year long road ahead of her, I'm all for it.

i personally think that somewhere right in the middle of the original suggested diet and jaime's 50% fat diet is the best place for her to be, so really i agree with both of you. i think that 50% carbs is high for a woman wanting to lose weight, but i also think keto is the wrong way to go. normal people need carbs to go through every day life, and to live life normally (go out to eat with friends, all that kinda stuff)

carl i do think that this needs to be more of a lifestyle change for her, where you teach her how to choose healthy alternatives more than you teach her how to count calories. counting calories is great to get the hang of making healthy choices, but in the long run, if she wants to meet her goals, its things like choosing healthier foods over less healthy foods thats gunna make the difference!

[Quelly]

i personally think that somewhere right in the middle of the original suggested diet and jaime's 50% fat diet is the best place for her to be, so really i agree with both of you. i think that 50% carbs is high for a woman wanting to lose weight, but i also think keto is the wrong way to go. normal people need carbs to go through every day life, and to live life normally (go out to eat with friends, all that kinda stuff)

carl i do think that this needs to be more of a lifestyle change for her, where you teach her how to choose healthy alternatives more than you teach her how to count calories. counting calories is great to get the hang of making healthy choices, but in the long run, if she wants to meet her goals, its things like choosing healthier foods over less healthy foods thats gunna make the difference!

I completely agree, and both you and jaime made good points about healthy food choices and carb choices....that's why I recommended weight watchers...which actually over the long term has the best compliance out of all the different diets: zone, atkins, south beach you name it. Because all it does is stress eating healthy foods, getting some group support and counting points, which is basically just "fitday light" lol....get her on that track and the gym and I guarantee she will get results if she is consistent.

I don't think she really even wants to hear what macronutrient ratios to eat...she's not there yet it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong there Carl).

[smallguyjoe]

30% protein / 40% carbs / 30% fat

[smallguyjoe]

I completely agree, and both you and jaime made good points about healthy food choices and carb choices....that's why I recommended weight watchers...which actually over the long term has the best compliance out of all the different diets: zone, atkins, south beach you name it. Because all it does is stress eating healthy foods, getting some group support and counting points, which is basically just "fitday light" lol....get her on that track and the gym and I guarantee she will get results if she is consistent.

I don't think she really even wants to hear what macronutrient ratios to eat...she's not there yet it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong there Carl).

She may not want to hear it, but if she just at least has a basic meal plan that she can follow I think it would make a huge impact for the good.

I mean, if she has a plan that she could follow almost perfectly most of the time and switch out certain foods here and there that are really close to the same she would be eating healthy and the right amount of food.

Maybe the initial meal plan does not have to be perfect right off the bat, but it can be healthy choices that she is comfortable with. This way she will adhere to the plan well, and if the macros are set at a good level she will make good progress. Even if the defecit fluctuates from 250-500 / day she will lose fat at a nice pace.

As far as the ratios go, they don't need to be perfect. I do believe they should be set at good levels for health and optimal functioning.

Seriously, I don't think she'll have a problem eating:

20-30% protein / 40-50% carbs / 20-30% fat

I mean come on, the most important things are:
-that she is getting exercise in
-making healthy food choices
-and to lose/maintain weight --> ENERGY EXPENDITURE NEEDS TO BE GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO ENERGY INTAKE.


I think it's important to not make the initial start be so freakin complicated. You don't want to overwhelm her. But, if you can design a decent meal plan and workout routine. She will see awesome progress from sticking to it for a couple months.

[cawiau]

Sorry everyone, been busy the past couple of days and also been out of town...

Diet sucked and no workouts....simple, I can feel the weight creep back up!

Should be back home by Saturday morning, so 2 more days! Spoke with the wife earlier and she is on top of her diet and managed two cardio sessions!

Going to read all the posts and Quelly, you got a pm! It is about my calories intake...I think once I get back home saturday, I am either going to decide if I should either decrease calories or increase activity!

[cawiau]

everything is looking good so far man. but as you know, and as people as said, it's all about putting it into action, which i know the both of you will do. it must be done right, there's no question about it.

may i make one suggestion though, i completely understand not wanting her to do the big compound movements on days you aren't with her, but i would suggest teaching her walking db lunges (without the db's at first). as anyone who has done high rep walking lunges can attest, they are an excellent way to get the heart-rate up and get as many lower body muscles/joints moving as possible in one exercise. plus they can be done without a spot

Thanks brah, appreciate it!

in women exercising in real world studies there is only a SLIGHT difference in carbohydrate metabolism and glycogen utilization and storage, if she were not exercising or was menopausal than maybe, but with the current plan I don't think anything below 40% carbs would be a good idea...just my opinion.

EDIT http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2129154
take a read of that, really long and some parts might be overly scientific-jargoned for some, but it has some really good info, in exercising women you only see major deviations from men in substrate utilization during low intensity exercise, and hopefully she'll be doing moderate to high intenisty exercise right? Either weight training or hiit, or moderate intensity steady state cardio...

Thanks, will read the document now!

And that's whay I told you to ask E about macros for women. Bam!!

You said it

Thats great that your wife is in on it too now. Extra motivation for both of you..and even some friendly competition perhaps Best of luck to both of you! Is she going to create an account or just post through you?

She already has an account, just never sticked around for long!
Thanks!

[TheHeath]

That's so cool to have a wife who could someday also be a training partner. Couples who pursue similar interests together stay together more than those who don't. You're the man!

[cawiau]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the good conversation and information!

I think for now it would be wise for me to just let her eat as she pleases as long it is withing the 2000 calories a day!

Basically get her used to the idea of using a food scale and not see it as an issue

I am guessing 4 weeks in should be enough! Than as we progress we get more into the details and macros!

Basically it is like for a guy getting in a Hot Tub!

You get in slow until the "package" is in, than sit down and enjoy the warm water!

So I am just going to ease her in this slowly and as she stick to it and get more into it, I will start throwing the complicated stuff at her!

Why wouldn't it be good to go below 40? 20-40 with complex carbs would help control insulin, blood sugar, and give her enough energy to workout, even at high intensities...

this part makes Mr. Fat Loss very sad. you're taking the muscle group that has the BIGGEST ability to tear through substrates with big, compound moves, and giving it little tiny exercises to do. i know these are easier exercises to do for someone whos not in the gym much, but these arent anywhere near the best exercises for her goals.



i gotta agree with Jaime on this one. i thought the same thing when I read this. You can lose weight pretty well with a 50% carb split, but shes just not gunna use it as easily. sweet potatos, broc. and spinach FTW!

Did you guys even read the study?

this post right here sums it up. i've dealt with the same thing in clients and the most important thing is something they can follow and won't rebound to balloon proportions after eating something they shouldn't have. succinct and precise answer, and reps.

Say it with me now..

ERIC FTW!!!

This man brings his **** day in and day out on these forums.

i personally think that somewhere right in the middle of the original suggested diet and jaime's 50% fat diet is the best place for her to be, so really i agree with both of you. i think that 50% carbs is high for a woman wanting to lose weight, but i also think keto is the wrong way to go. normal people need carbs to go through every day life, and to live life normally (go out to eat with friends, all that kinda stuff)

carl i do think that this needs to be more of a lifestyle change for her, where you teach her how to choose healthy alternatives more than you teach her how to count calories. counting calories is great to get the hang of making healthy choices, but in the long run, if she wants to meet her goals, its things like choosing healthier foods over less healthy foods thats gunna make the difference!

I completely agree, and both you and jaime made good points about healthy food choices and carb choices....that's why I recommended weight watchers...which actually over the long term has the best compliance out of all the different diets: zone, atkins, south beach you name it. Because all it does is stress eating healthy foods, getting some group support and counting points, which is basically just "fitday light" lol....get her on that track and the gym and I guarantee she will get results if she is consistent.

I don't think she really even wants to hear what macronutrient ratios to eat...she's not there yet it sounds like (correct me if I'm wrong there Carl).

She may not want to hear it, but if she just at least has a basic meal plan that she can follow I think it would make a huge impact for the good.

I mean, if she has a plan that she could follow almost perfectly most of the time and switch out certain foods here and there that are really close to the same she would be eating healthy and the right amount of food.

Maybe the initial meal plan does not have to be perfect right off the bat, but it can be healthy choices that she is comfortable with. This way she will adhere to the plan well, and if the macros are set at a good level she will make good progress. Even if the defecit fluctuates from 250-500 / day she will lose fat at a nice pace.

As far as the ratios go, they don't need to be perfect. I do believe they should be set at good levels for health and optimal functioning.

Seriously, I don't think she'll have a problem eating:

20-30% protein / 40-50% carbs / 20-30% fat

I mean come on, the most important things are:
-that she is getting exercise in
-making healthy food choices
-and to lose/maintain weight --> ENERGY EXPENDITURE NEEDS TO BE GREATER THAN OR EQUAL TO ENERGY INTAKE.


I think it's important to not make the initial start be so freakin complicated. You don't want to overwhelm her. But, if you can design a decent meal plan and workout routine. She will see awesome progress from sticking to it for a couple months.

[cawiau]

That's so cool to have a wife who could someday also be a training partner. Couples who pursue similar interests together stay together more than those who don't. You're the man!

Thanks brah and that is good!
We intend to stick with each other for awhile

[cawiau]

this part makes Mr. Fat Loss very sad. you're taking the muscle group that has the BIGGEST ability to tear through substrates with big, compound moves, and giving it little tiny exercises to do. i know these are easier exercises to do for someone whos not in the gym much, but these arent anywhere near the best exercises for her goals.

I am all ears...any suggestion?

[FATHER FLEX]

well...In my professional opinion as a student of fitness and wellness, and a personal trainer with 5 years of experience with 60% female clientele which 90% of whom are looking for weight loss and are overweight...I have found that moderate carb, high protein, low fat diets tend to provide the best balance between perfromance enhancement in the gym, favorable lipid profiles, the best long term compliance, and the least amount of rebound weight gain when someone goes off the diet and binges, or after they meet their goal weight and attempt a maintenance program.

I AM NOT talking about the best 12-16 week contest prep strategy...I can't tell you how many bodybuilder/personal trainers have ruined clients metabolisms by putting them on prep diets in which they'd lose 15-20lbs (when they needed to lose 100+lbs) and then completely stall out because they keto'ed them and had them in a 1000kcal deficit doing cardio everyday.

Carl's wife doesn't even want to count calories...we are talking about an everyday person, someone who doesn't subscribe to bodybuilding magazines and spend hours a/day on the bodybuilding forums...we are talking about a lifestyle change in diet...and in my opinion the research is pretty clear...I don't think a low carb diet would be terrible, it would work, she would lose a similar amount of weight...but it just isn't optimal in my opinion.

I already covered the studies in my earlier post about exercise and substrate use...here's a study about the lipid profiles
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

and here's one showing an improvment in glucose tolerance and lowering of ldl
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

and here's one just showing the lifestyle trends and correlations between high and low fat diets and obesity
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

But in the end Carl, whatever academic issues we may discuss here, the best nutrition plan is the one she can follow consistently....if she can hit her caloric goal and feel good on a low carb or no carb diet and maintain it for the 1+ year long road ahead of her, I'm all for it.

YES!

[cawiau]

YES!

Thanks for passing by!

[bryce126]

lol at the jacuzzi metaphor

[The_Animal11]

I am all ears...any suggestion?

my suggestion for leg day would be things like squats and lunges and SLDs or Good Mornings... leg ext and curls are great but not the most effective for losing weight, cuz theyre such iso moves. those big moves are gunna be much better cuz youre recruiting alot more muscles to do the work!

[toddbz]

[b] I am either going to decide if I should either decrease calories or increase activity!

Personally I'd rather up activity than decrease calories. I mean it's not like you're running 100 miles every week (yes I do know crazy sum beatches that do that) lol

my suggestion for leg day would be things like squats and lunges and SLDs or Good Mornings... leg ext and curls are great but not the most effective for losing weight, cuz theyre such iso moves. those big moves are gunna be much better cuz youre recruiting alot more muscles to do the work!

Agree 100%
Moving more muscle = more calories burned.
Full body split 3 days a week with cardio mixed in there...money!!

[cawiau]

lol at the jacuzzi metaphor

Hey it's true!
I would never ever just jumped in a jaccuzzi!

my suggestion for leg day would be things like squats and lunges and SLDs or Good Mornings... leg ext and curls are great but not the most effective for losing weight, cuz theyre such iso moves. those big moves are gunna be much better cuz youre recruiting alot more muscles to do the work!

Thanks brah, will change it!
We are hitting the gym together this weekend!

Personally I'd rather up activity than decrease calories. I mean it's not like you're running 100 miles every week (yes I do know crazy sum beatches that do that) lol

Yeah, I decided to do just that too!

Agree 100%
Moving more muscle = more calories burned.
Full body split 3 days a week with cardio mixed in there...money!!

I agree

[Goalie_Girl]

It's been a while dude, looking good!

[algforcek]

...of EPIC win and awesomeness.

Seriously... Quelly, Animal, and Carl, you all are so frigging motivating. The knowledge you bring to the table just makes me want to run like hell...

...brb gotta go workout!

This thread wins at life.

That is all.
SPonge

[cawiau]

Just got home at about 7:00 AM , drove thru the night and had some of the nastiest coffee ever!

Anyway, back home to the wife


Motivation

More than 5 people that haven't seen me for awhile kept telling me how I lost weight!

That is motivation to keep at it

[cawiau]

It's been a while dude, looking good!

Thanks, how is everything with you!

...of EPIC win and awesomeness.

Seriously... Quelly, Animal, and Carl, you all are so frigging motivating. The knowledge you bring to the table just makes me want to run like hell...

...brb gotta go workout!

This thread wins at life.

That is all.
SPonge

Thanks brah, kick ass

[Quelly]

Just got home at about 7:00 AM , drove thru the night and had some of the nastiest coffee ever!

Anyway, back home to the wife


Motivation

More than 5 people that haven't seen me for awhile kept telling me how I lost weight!

That is motivation to keep at it

yup, just make it more obvious carl, keep at it!

[Goalie_Girl]

Thanks, how is everything with you!

Good, I'm back posting at my log, definately take a look, I'm in need of advice and support. Glad to see you're still going strong.

[JENerator]

Motivation

More than 5 people that haven't seen me for awhile kept telling me how I lost weight!

That is motivation to keep at it

That's fantastic!! Sometimes the changes you're making are so hard to notice when you look at yourself everyday and you start to think that you're not progressing. But when more than 5 people are commenting on your weight loss, it's a BIG difference! Great confirmation that your hard work in the gym & the kitchen is showing!

[cg73]

Last year that was one of my biggest motivation methods. When people were saying things like that to me and noticing it really made me feel like I accomplished some thing.

Congrats! Keep it up!

[cawiau]

yup, just make it more obvious carl, keep at it!

I intend too bro, I am going to keep pushing

Good, I'm back posting at my log, definately take a look, I'm in need of advice and support. Glad to see you're still going strong.

I am going to check it out

That's fantastic!! Sometimes the changes you're making are so hard to notice when you look at yourself everyday and you start to think that you're not progressing. But when more than 5 people are commenting on your weight loss, it's a BIG difference! Great confirmation that your hard work in the gym & the kitchen is showing!

Thank you, I needed that
It was a great push

Last year that was one of my biggest motivation methods. When people were saying things like that to me and noticing it really made me feel like I accomplished some thing.

Congrats! Keep it up!

Thanks!