Why Prisons dont work...

[Spetsnazos]

Seriously, if sending someone to prison for 10 years makes you feel better thats fine but really it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to work.

Say your convicted for something and you go and do time for 10 years.

Once you get out(assuming you really want to and CHANGED), you decide that you are going to go and get a job and stop screwin around.

Well no one is going to hire you...because on the application you have to list that you've been convicted and sentenced. Then what do you do after you cant find a job? Resort to doing exactly what you were doing that got you in jail in the first place...

I understand that employers have the right to choose, especially a criminal, for work...but how do you make this system work?

its no wonder the statistics are so high for people who come out of jail to commit another crime.


Cliffs
-------
SYSTEM IS F*CKED UP...

[stealth_swimmer]

Seriously, if sending someone to prison for 10 years makes you feel better thats fine but really it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to work.

Say your convicted for something and you go and do time for 10 years.

Once you get out(assuming you really want to and CHANGED), you decide that you are going to go and get a job and stop screwin around.

Well no one is going to hire you...because on the application you have to list that you've been convicted and sentenced. Then what do you do after you cant find a job? Resort to doing exactly what you were doing that got you in jail in the first place...

I understand that employers have the right to choose, especially a criminal, for work...but how do you make this system work?

its no wonder the statistics are so high for people who come out of jail to commit another crime.


Cliffs
-------
SYSTEM IS F*CKED UP...

Yeah there was this guy that came to talk to my Intro to Business class and one of the things his company worked with was having a program to address that issue. They help former prisoners find work after they get out of prison.

[B_Master_Flash]

The system isn't perfect, but what's the alternative? No prisions? I don't have a whole lot of compassion for convicts. IMO they are in debt to society, not the other way around. Society is not obliged to give them job training or (even worse) preference for being hired.

[Spetsnazos]

The system isn't perfect, but what's the alternative? No prisions? I don't have a whole lot of compassion for convicts. IMO they are in debt to society, not the other way around. Society is not obliged to give them job training or (even worse) preference for being hired.

i dont either, so put them in jail for life...cause realistically they arent going to do anything better with themselves when they get out based on the system of prisons...

[American_Maniac]

i dont either, so put them in jail for life...cause realistically they arent going to do anything better with themselves when they get out based on the system of prisons...

not for life...there are people who went to prison that did turn there life around, i dunno the stats on the subject though. The main focus of prison/jails is to punish the criminal for what they have done. If they want to get a good job in the future then maybe they should not have done something to get themselves sent to prison. Most of the time the if you only break the law once and its not so serious youll get probation. Its only serious and repetitive offenders that serve time. Again the offenders are being punished for what they did, its not our concern whether or not their life will be more difficult.

[eehee]

the system is ****ed up...it's what creates criminals in the first place. The way things are right now, there's always gonna be a few suckers at the bottom who get the short end of the stick, it's inevitable.

Something needs to be done and i'm not quite sure what. Our mentality definately has not kept up with technological advances.

[American_Maniac]

the system is ****ed up...it's what creates criminals in the first place. The way things are right now, there's always gonna be a few suckers at the bottom who get the short end of the stick, it's inevitable.

Something needs to be done and i'm not quite sure what. Our mentality definately has not kept up with technological advances.

prisons are a result of criminals, not the other way around.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Death for every felony. Problem solved.

[eehee]

prisons are a result of criminals, not the other way around.

i didn't say they weren't, i said the society in which we live today results in an inevitable inequality which leads those at the bottom left with very few options.

[eehee]

Death for every felony. Problem solved.

lol, a little excessive but yes, that would solve the problem pretty quick. many crimes would not be carried out if the penalty was more than a mere slap acriss the wrists.

[Steak_n_Taters]

i didn't say they weren't, i said the society in which we live today results in an inevitable inequality which leads those at the bottom left with very few options.

In our society, there is practically no reasonable excuse to commit a crime. Crime is a tool of the lazy and weak, who need to be culled anyway.

My grandparents (and probably most peoples grandparents/or parents) grew up during the depression. They had nothing. NOTHING. Much, much less than these "unequal," "people at the bottom" do today, that can't seem to stop whining for more handouts. Somehow they made it without ever resorting to crime.

[American_Maniac]

i didn't say they weren't, i said the society in which we live today results in an inevitable inequality which leads those at the bottom left with very few options.

inequality is inevitable...that cannot be changed, even in communist societies there is inequality and crime.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Wanted to add: the problem is cultural. It's not the system. People used to have too much pride to ask for a handout. People who absolutely deserved some sort of disability pay because they had a terrible back, or whatever, would rather bear the pain, day in and day out, than suffer the indignity of having to ask for something they felt they didn't earn.

That's the main problem. Previous generations were willing to sacrifice themselves and their current well being for their future, and future generations' happiness and success.

Our generation is willing to sacrifice our future, and the well being of future generations, for our current satisfaction.

[potatoe]

[mizzOe]

In our society, there is practically no reasonable excuse to commit a crime. Crime is a tool of the lazy and weak, who need to be culled anyway.

My grandparents (and probably most peoples grandparents/or parents) grew up during the depression. They had nothing. NOTHING. Much, much less than these "unequal" "people at the bottom" do today, that can't seem to keep whining for more handouts. Somehow they made it without ever resorting to crime.

Yes because everyone is like your grandparents?

Lets face it, the world is racist, and they judge people at the drop of a dime - and putting someone in life for a minor crime isn't really going to solve anything either, or judging someone just because they went to prison, without even knowing the motives of their crimes.

Some people end up in jail accidentally, and their life gets ruined over that. It's like if you were to get accused of something then you were found guilty - went to jail even if you're a good person at heart etc, as soon as you come out, you're most likely going to get treated like a 'criminal' for the rest of your life.

And not to mention those criminals who honestly do want to change their lifestyles, cuz one can only be a criminal for SO long - the stress of being a criminal isn't too appealing, especially in the long run.

[stealth_swimmer]

In our society, there is practically no reasonable excuse to commit a crime. Crime is a tool of the lazy and weak, who need to be culled anyway.

My grandparents (and probably most peoples grandparents/or parents) grew up during the depression. They had nothing. NOTHING. Much, much less than these "unequal" "people at the bottom" do today, that can't seem to keep whining for more handouts. Somehow they made it without ever resorting to crime.

a lot of it is tied to drug addiction...so they commit crimes to pay for their expensive addictions...which are expensive because the drugs are illegal.


And then of course there are just some genuinely bad people out there.

[Steak_n_Taters]

Yes because everyone is like your grandparents?

Lets face it, the world is racist, and they judge people at the drop of a dime - and putting someone in life for a minor crime isn't really going to solve anything either, or judging someone just because they went to prison, without even knowing the motives of their crimes.

Some people end up in jail accidentally, and their life gets ruined over that. It's like if you were to get accused of something then you were found guilty - went to jail even if you're a good person at heart etc, as soon as you come out, you're most likely going to get treated like a 'criminal' for the rest of your life.

And not to mention those criminals who honestly do want to change their lifestyles, cuz one can only be a criminal for SO long - the stress of being a criminal isn't too appealing, especially in the long run.

For those who are falsely accused, and end up in jail for a crime they never committed, yeah that sucks, a lot, but, that's just the way things are sometimes. That's just a fact of life, it's going to happen.

To the rest, eh, tough fukkin' cookies. No body forced you to commit a crime, I don't care how racist those around you supposedly are. Nobody put a gun to your head; you chose to commit the crime, for whatever reason, and you now owe a debt to society, payable in hard time (or a fantastic lawyer).

If you can't get a job, even though you have totally changed your life, sorry bud, that's just the way it is. Start your own business or something, but don't bitch when you can't get a job at Boeing because you knocked over a few 7-11's and wanted to just chalk it up to 'boys will be boys.'

[Steak_n_Taters]

a lot of it is tied to drug addiction...so they commit crimes to pay for their expensive addictions...which are expensive because the drugs are illegal.


And then of course there are just some genuinely bad people out there.

Again, too bad. Nobody forced that person to get addicted to drugs. If you end up committing crimes as a result, that's your own damn fault.

Do we let drunk drivers that kill innocent people walk because "oh well, I was drunk and not in control of my actions."? Fuk no. There's no difference, in my mind.

People have a choice in life. Walk the straight and narrow, or do otherwise. If you choose to do otherwise, prepare to suffer the consequences, and don't complain when things don't turn out the way you wanted them too. You might get away with it, but then again, you might not. If you don't, well, you'll have a long time to think about how you could have done things differently.

ETA: Now, I was being semi-sarcastic on death for any felony. That may be on the harsh side. But these guys that are out with 5 page rap sheets, with 12 different felonies and 24 misdemeanors? Give me a break. These animals are obviously beyond repair, and need to be culled. They are less than human, no matter the circumstances.

[LunicaAshes]

Depends. My brother-in-law spent time in jail (nothing major, though,) and now has a good job that supports my sister and their three children in a nice-sized home. He f*cked up a lot, but turned his life around. It's not always doom and gloom. Just usually.

[OCguy999]

People make mistakes. Nobody is perfect. A lot of crimes are committed by otherwise good people who made a bad decision. I can't imagine what it's like to be an ex-felon in this society. It's tough enough to get a job without having a criminal record

[Steak_n_Taters]

People make mistakes. Nobody is perfect. A lot of crimes are committed by otherwise good people who made a bad decision. I can't imagine what it's like to be an ex-felon in this society. It's tough enough to get a job without having a criminal record

Exactly, on your last point. Non-criminals should always, without question, have an advantage in the job market over those with a criminal history (other things equal).

[Pay_Me]

"I went in with a bachelor's of marijuana and came out with a doctorate in *******." -- George Jung

[Beatitude]

Death for every felony. Problem solved.

And many new problems created as a result of that. Namely the fact that we'd be executing hundreds of thousands of people per year and and a not so insignificant amount of them would have been innocent.

The system isn't perfect, but what's the alternative? No prisions? I don't have a whole lot of compassion for convicts. IMO they are in debt to society, not the other way around. Society is not obliged to give them job training or (even worse) preference for being hired.

Society isn't obliged to give them job training, but it's beneficial for society to do so and harmful for it not to do so. It certainly helps criminals to get out of the rut when they have something that they can do. Moreover, there is a lot more we could be doing within prisons to prevent gangs, rape, and abuse, which makes our prisoners twice as screwed up in the head as when they first came in. People are largely apathetic towards it because the thought of them getting raped and abused gives sadistic pleasure, but it rightfully comes back to bite them.

If we made prisons more of a place of work, labor, and effort, where criminals literally pay their debt to society with the sweat of their brow, they can be punished as well as learn work ethic. Right now there are just a lot of unnecessary expenses allegedly in order to be humane, even though we are just making them worse in the long term.

[Steak_n_Taters]

And many new problems created as a result of that. Namely the fact that we'd be executing hundreds of thousands of people per year and and a not so insignificant amount of them would have been innocent.

I know, I was mostly joking, as I said in a later post. However, repeat offenders get no sympathy from me. 3 strikes, you're out. As in, out of this life.

[mizzOe]

Again, too bad. Nobody forced that person to get addicted to drugs. If you end up committing crimes as a result, that's your own damn fault.

Do we let drunk drivers that kill innocent people walk because "oh well, I was drunk and not in control of my actions."? Fuk no. There's no difference, in my mind.

People have a choice in life. Walk the straight and narrow, or do otherwise. If you choose to do otherwise, prepare to suffer the consequences, and don't complain when things don't turn out the way you wanted them too. You might get away with it, but then again, you might not. If you don't, well, you'll have a long time to think about how you could have done things differently.

ETA: Now, I was being semi-sarcastic on death for any felony. That may be on the harsh side. But these guys that are out with 5 page rap sheets, with 12 different felonies and 24 misdemeanors? Give me a break. These animals are obviously beyond repair, and need to be culled. They are less than human, no matter the circumstances.

See it's people like you that probably drive the crime rate up - with that attitude, touch luck, you shouldn't have done bad things in your life, like people were meant to live their lives without making a single mistake.

Just saying

[Steak_n_Taters]

See it's people like you that probably drive the crime rate up - with that attitude, touch luck, you shouldn't have done bad things in your life, like people were meant to live their lives without making a single mistake.

Just saying

People who commit crimes drive the crime rate up.

Just saying

ETA: And yeah, people make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. But robbery is not a mistake. Rape is not a mistake. Assault is not a mistake. Fraud is not a mistake.

[saloman]

Seriously, if sending someone to prison for 10 years makes you feel better thats fine but really it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to work.

Say your convicted for something and you go and do time for 10 years.

Once you get out(assuming you really want to and CHANGED), you decide that you are going to go and get a job and stop screwin around.

Well no one is going to hire you...because on the application you have to list that you've been convicted and sentenced. Then what do you do after you cant find a job? Resort to doing exactly what you were doing that got you in jail in the first place...

I understand that employers have the right to choose, especially a criminal, for work...but how do you make this system work?

its no wonder the statistics are so high for people who come out of jail to commit another crime.


Cliffs
-------
SYSTEM IS F*CKED UP...

I don't think prisons are the problem. I think we just overuse them. We put people in prison for minor things in America. I could not care less if a rapist or bank robber can't find work when he gets out of prison - consider their post prison struggle part of the penalty they pay.

I do think its a problem when minor offenders who could contribute to society are locked away when there are better and more effective means to deal with small problems - including in some cases getting rid of the law that criminalizes things such as drug use or threatening emails with penalties of prison time.

[mizzOe]

People who commit crimes drive the crime rate up.

Just saying

ETA: And yeah, people make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. But robbery is not a mistake. Rape is not a mistake. Assault is not a mistake. Fraud is not a mistake.

How isn't robbery a mistake? and how the fuck can't assaulting someone be a mistake?

The motive behind these 'crimes' aren't always sinister - people go through phases, it's just human nature to be curious and want to experiment with things..

I mean by your theory, every Christian or Jew or whatever who has sex before marriage is a bad person, everyone who gets intoxicated is a bad person - anyone who has gotten into some sort of trouble isn't worth being given a second chance.

One thing I'd like to get clear though - a person who rapes, and murders, and is known to be a violent person by nature, sure - they're most probably never going to change - however, people who do a lot of little petty crimes, and who DO want to change for whatever reason; eg; starting a new family, came to the realization that their crimes aren't paying off, and it's time to start a legitimate lifestyle - without giving people chances, you're only adding fuel to the fire of crime rate.

[Steak_n_Taters]

How isn't robbery a mistake? and how the fuck can't assaulting someone be a mistake?

How the hell is it a mistake? I don't know about you but I've never had the urge to rob or assault anyone. Assault =/= self defense. Assault is violently and needlessly attacking another person.

Maybe to you it is fine to go ahead and sucker punch someone because you don't like the way they looked at you.

However in civilized society, people don't behave that way.

The motive behind these 'crimes' aren't always sinister - people go through phases, it's just human nature to be curious and want to experiment with things..

I never went through a violent 'phase' or a phase in which I desired to commit crimes. I mean sure everyone goes through their rebellious phase or whatever, but that =/= lawlessness. Talk back to your parents, stay out past your bedtime, whatever, but that's no excuse to break the law. Human nature to experiment with things? Sure. Experiment all you want. But don't bitch when you get caught and have to pay the consequence.

I mean by your theory, every Christian or Jew or whatever who has sex before marriage is a bad person, everyone who gets intoxicated is a bad person - anyone who has gotten into some sort of trouble isn't worth being given a second chance.

WTF? When did I say anything about Christians or Jews? I don't care what your religion is. If you want to do something against your religion, but within the law, go ahead and do it, I don't care. That doesn't make you a good or bad person in my eyes.

One thing I'd like to get clear though - a person who rapes, and murders, and is known to be a violent person by nature, sure - they're most probably never going to change

Agreed

- however, people who do a lot of little petty crimes, and who DO want to change for whatever reason; eg; starting a new family, came to the realization that their crimes aren't paying off, and it's time to start a legitimate lifestyle - without giving people chances, you're only adding fuel to the fire of crime rate.

No. You committed "a lot" of "petty" crimes, you suffer the consequences, end of story. If you are committing multiple crimes, no matter how petty, you used up your second chance a long time ago. By the time you are on your 8th chance, no matter what it's for - multiple "petty" assaults, multiple "petty" robberies/muggins - I don't care, you reap what you sew.

[Addicted2Iron]

40% of people who committ a crime and get away with it will committ the same crime at least once in the following year