Sodium Flouride

[stealth_swimmer]

and were does the "science" come from??? the GOVERNMENT the doctors and dentists goto universities controlled by the GOVERNMENT they learn from teachers and studies controlled by the GOVERNMENT its got nothing to do with "buying people out" you just control what they learn and they will go along and believe it.


like i said before they can make you believe anything at all with the right media and propaganda plain and simple fact

Much of scientific research is done to find truth though, not to find any particular finding. As well, what about private schools that got research? The only learning that is controlled is the general stuff that you get in your basics. And also for some reason economics, but I think it's cus the profession ain't as open to change as others. Like why we even keep teaching Keynesian economics is beyond me. And how government adjustments work...of course they usually have the opposite effect as to what is said in the textbook so basically the conclusion is that the government is overdoing it. Like with minimum wage causing unemployment...well it only happens cus the minimum wage is too high. But yet we NEVER lower the minimum wage, lol. So basically it's assuming that somehow the government will pick the 'correct' minimum wage...and of course, they never do. that's just one example though.

[fballer12]

First off if you don't want flouride in your water drink bottled water.

Everything i have learned leads me to believe that flouride is safe and healthy. I've heard of stuides showing that since fluoride has been added to water the rates of childhood cavities has decreased. All of my teachers have said they are in favor of fluorinated drinking water.

For all of those who think floruide is bad or doesn't help teeth i question your knowledge of science on the issue. Have you taken any classes that deal with bone devolopment and formation? I remeber back when i took anatomy learning about bones and i don't ever recall fluoride being anything except a good thing.

Whether or not your government conspirasy is true the science backs up flouride has being good for your teeth. Why else do you think dentists say flouride is good? Has the governement bought them out? I'm gonna go ahead and trust dentists sceintific understanding of the issue rather than these other crazy claims since everything i have seen leads to floruide being benifical.

This is so wrong in so many ways

[OwneD.TBH]

Much of scientific research is done to find truth though, not to find any particular finding. As well, what about private schools that got research? The only learning that is controlled is the general stuff that you get in your basics. And also for some reason economics, but I think it's cus the profession ain't as open to change as others. Like why we even keep teaching Keynesian economics is beyond me. And how government adjustments work...of course they usually have the opposite effect as to what is said in the textbook so basically the conclusion is that the government is overdoing it. Like with minimum wage causing unemployment...well it only happens cus the minimum wage is too high. But yet we NEVER lower the minimum wage, lol. So basically it's assuming that somehow the government will pick the 'correct' minimum wage...and of course, they never do. that's just one example though.

ok ok so lets say a private school finds a cure for cancer.....now for everyone to know about it, it has to be "accepted" and "approved" by foundations like the FDA and WHO both controlled by the government it then needs to be pushed across the nation/world through education and mainly the media both of which AGAIN are controlled by the government or people behind it. if they dont want you to know about something your not going to know. and if they want you to believe in something (like the war on terror) then they simply push it out through the media its that simple. all the information you get is controlled. you get to see what they what you to see any nothing more. once you get a better understanding of it you can connect the dots really really easy but drinking that sodium fluoride is just going to cloud your judgement.

[stealth_swimmer]

ok ok so lets say a private school finds a cure for cancer.....now for everyone to know about it, it has to be "accepted" and "approved" by foundations like the FDA and WHO both controlled by the government it then needs to be pushed across the nation/world through education and mainly the media both of which AGAIN are controlled by the government or people behind it. if they dont want you to know about something your not going to know. and if they want you to believe in something (like the war on terror) then they simply push it out through the media its that simple. all the information you get is controlled. you get to see what they what you to see any nothing more. once you get a better understanding of it you can connect the dots really really easy but drinking that sodium fluoride is just going to cloud your judgement.

Media is corporate-owned, not government-run (unless you're talking about public stations).

As for the FDA, I totally agree with you there. I think they do more harm than good.

[OwneD.TBH]

Media is corporate-owned, not government-run (unless you're talking about public stations).

As for the FDA, I totally agree with you there. I think they do more harm than good.

i said there owned by the government or people(corporations) behind it

[matcoon]

and were does the "science" come from??? the GOVERNMENT the doctors and dentists goto universities controlled by the GOVERNMENT they learn from teachers and studies controlled by the GOVERNMENT its got nothing to do with "buying people out" you just control what they learn and they will go along and believe it.


like i said before they can make you believe anything at all with the right media and propaganda plain and simple fact

I'm guessing you haven't taken science classes, or at the very least science that deal with fluroide and teeth/bone health specifically. Do you really think the government can make people believe false science? The reason dentists think fluoride is good for your teeth isn't just because they are told its good for your teeth. They think its good for you teeth because they know the actual mechanism behind it, this isn't something you can just fake and make people believe.

You need to realize, scientist know more about science than the government does. I don't know how fluoride was suggested to be added to water in the first place but i would imagine it was someone who understood the science behind it such as a dentist or i don't know a scientist of some sort that thought it might be a good idea. I would suggest trying to look this information up.

Your conspiracy reasons for addition of fluoride to water has many, very obvious holes in it. How do you account for people who drink bottled water without fluoride in it being controlled the same? What about control of people before fluoride was in water? And even more so, not all area's have fluorinated water and from my knowledge, i believe communities actually vote on whether fluoride is added to the water or not.

[OwneD.TBH]

90% of information in the USA (maybe the world) is controlled by 6 corporations and them 6 corpations have big ties in the agenda


Viacom
Sony
Time Warner
Disney
News Corp
Universal

go and look it up for yourself if you don't believe me all the facts are there

[OwneD.TBH]

I'm guessing you haven't taken science classes, or at the very least science that deal with fluroide and teeth/bone health specifically. Do you really think the government can make people believe false science? The reason dentists think fluoride is good for your teeth isn't just because they are told its good for your teeth. They think its good for you teeth because they know the actual mechanism behind it, this isn't something you can just fake and make people believe.

You need to realize, scientist know more about science than the government does. I don't know how fluoride was suggested to be added to water in the first place but i would imagine it was someone who understood the science behind it such as a dentist or i don't know a scientist of some sort that thought it might be a good idea. I would suggest trying to look this information up.

Your conspiracy reasons for addition of fluoride to water has many, very obvious holes in it. How do you account for people who drink bottled water without fluoride in it being controlled the same? What about control of people before fluoride was in water? And even more so, not all area's have fluorinated water and from my knowledge, i believe communities actually vote on whether fluoride is added to the water or not.

you keep believing that poor soul

[matcoon]

This is so wrong in so many ways

Oh ok you've convinced me with that argument that i am wrong. It would actually be much more convincing if you told me what was wrong. And what was it that is said is wrong? My recall of what i have learned in school and have heard my teachers say is wrong? Becuase from they way it looks to me, what i wrote i'm not making any scientific claims and saying they are fact i was simply sharing what i know/have learned based on my own experiences. I'm sure how i can be wrong in what i said, especially if you don't point out what is wrong as well as tell me why.

[OwneD.TBH]

you keep believing that poor soul

and didnt you read my earlier posts?


i said calcium fluoride MIGHT have some benefits but sodium fluoride DOES NOT

[matcoon]

you keep believing that poor soul

Strong arguments in here backing up what you're claiming...

I can't believe you are trying to argue against an accepted scientific claim backed by very large amounts of data/science by simply saying that it is wrong without any supporting arguments. You do this and still expect me to take you seriously?

People making claims like you don't get any attention not because there is a huge conspiracy being covered up, but you get ignored because all your doing is making claims without any evidence to back up you. Until you present something as a counter argument to the science behind flouride in water helping teeth you won't get much of a debate because there is no argument other than the everything your told is wrong argument.

90% of information in the USA (maybe the world) is controlled by 6 corporations and them 6 corpations have big ties in the agenda

This is just a rediculous claim. Information is such a broud term i don't know how you can use it in such a way. Is some information controlled by corporations or government? Probably, but there is a lot of "information" (endless amounts really) that isn't really possible to even control in the first place.

[matcoon]

and didnt you read my earlier posts?


i said calcium fluoride MIGHT have some benefits but sodium fluoride DOES NOT

Yes i know you said that, however i don't remeber you posting the actual mechanism as to how come Ca fluoride "might" be benicial nor do i recall seeing why the mechanism of how Na fluoride and its positive effects on teeth are wrong.

Until i see the science behind it why would you expect me to just take your word for it over the scientific communities research?

[OwneD.TBH]

Strong arguments in here backing up what you're claiming...

I can't believe you are trying to argue against an accepted scientific claim backed by very large amounts of data/science by simply saying that it is wrong without any supporting arguments. You do this and still expect me to take you seriously?

People making claims like you don't get any attention not because there is a huge conspiracy being covered up, but you get ignored because all your doing is making claims without any evidence to back up you. Until you present something as a counter argument to the science behind flouride in water helping teeth you won't get much of a debate because there is no argument other than the everything your told is wrong argument.



This is just a rediculous claim. Information is such a broud term i don't know how you can use it in such a way. Is some information controlled by corporations or government? Probably, but there is a lot of "information" (endless amounts really) that isn't really possible to even control in the first place.

have you even read the comments ive posted on this thread? ive explained my reason more then once am not repeating myself for you read before you post.

you know i get people like you all the time trying to deny the facts while they know nothing about the subject and try to prove me wrong but they never can so they just end up saying "prove it" or call me a "conspiracy theorist" ignorance truly is bliss

[OwneD.TBH]

Yes i know you said that, however i don't remeber you posting the actual mechanism as to how come Ca fluoride "might" be benicial nor do i recall seeing why the mechanism of how Na fluoride and its positive effects on teeth are wrong.

Until i see the science behind it why would you expect me to just take your word for it over the scientific communities research?

try looking on the first page or are you asking for "proof"? tipical ......GO AND LOOK YOURSELF" am not doing all the work for you.

[stealth_swimmer]

90% of information in the USA (maybe the world) is controlled by 6 corporations and them 6 corpations have big ties in the agenda


Viacom
Sony
Time Warner
Disney
News Corp
Universal

go and look it up for yourself if you don't believe me all the facts are there

Mmm...no. 90% of info? k, I know you mean 'most' but even if you used the word "most" i'm not sure you'd be correct. Especially with the advent of the internet. there's lots of information out there. Not to mention that today the standard of living is generally much higher than it has been in centuries and millennia passed all over the world.

[OwneD.TBH]

Mmm...no. 90% of info? k, I know you mean 'most' but even if you used the word "most" i'm not sure you'd be correct. Especially with the advent of the internet. there's lots of information out there. Not to mention that today the standard of living is generally much higher than it has been in centuries and millennia passed all over the world.

why do you think they hate the internet so much and want to bring it under control?? because its the only source of truth. dont get me wrong there is alot of bull**** on the internet but its also a encyclopedia of truth

ok maybe your misreading what i put or ive mislead you somewhere....

every MAINSTREAM media company from your TV,Newspaper,Magazines (which is about 90% of information not including the internet) is controlled by one of them 6 corps.

[st_jimmy]

I thought they stopped putting it in water?

[Resonator]

Also, cancer tends to be a disease of old age. The average life span at the start of the 20th century was only 40, by the middle of the century the average life span was in the sixties, now at the start of the 21st century it is in the low eighties.

And, we have more people on the planet now, so there would be more cases of cancer.

[Resonator]

Can someone please post a link to a scientific study of fluoride where they include the testing procedure? (serious)

[PowerTricks]

You get it from toothpaste anyway

Yeah and you're also not supposed to eat or ingest toothpaste either.

[Astaldoath]

First off if you don't want flouride in your water drink bottled water.

Everything i have learned leads me to believe that flouride is safe and healthy. I've heard of stuides showing that since fluoride has been added to water the rates of childhood cavities has decreased. All of my teachers have said they are in favor of fluorinated drinking water.

For all of those who think floruide is bad or doesn't help teeth i question your knowledge of science on the issue. Have you taken any classes that deal with bone devolopment and formation? I remeber back when i took anatomy learning about bones and i don't ever recall fluoride being anything except a good thing.

Whether or not your government conspirasy is true the science backs up flouride has being good for your teeth. Why else do you think dentists say flouride is good? Has the governement bought them out? I'm gonna go ahead and trust dentists sceintific understanding of the issue rather than these other crazy claims since everything i have seen leads to floruide being benifical.

[matcoon]

have you even read the comments ive posted on this thread? ive explained my reason more then once am not repeating myself for you read before you post.

you know i get people like you all the time trying to deny the facts while they know nothing about the subject and try to prove me wrong but they never can so they just end up saying "prove it" or call me a "conspiracy theorist" ignorance truly is bliss

What facts am i denying because as far as i can tell i haven't denied any "facts", futhermore it seems to me that you are the one denying the facts such as the fact that dentist/research says fluroide is good for your teeth.

You attack me knowledge and say i don't know what i'm talking about and instead of explain your stance better you basically just call me dumb and ignorant. You get "people like me" all the time because this is how people react to "people like you". Who do i listen to? The scientific communitity that backs up what they say with scientific research and mechanisms of how thing help specifically as well as scienfic studies and reasearch data to further their understand and continue to increase what they know. Or do i listen to the guy who calls me ignorant, says i don't know even, and then when i ask to have more explained to me i am told to look it up for myself. Its not wonder people don't take you seriously.

The reason people can't prove you wrong is because there is nothing to prove wrong. Your claiming that current information is wrong so your right i can't prove you wrong because your saying that the information that would "prove" you wrong is the very information your saying is wrong. Since you are claiming it to be wrong it is you that needs to prove it. When two sides disagree you can't expect people to take the said who's only evidence for there claim is that the evidence already accpted is wrong.

try looking on the first page or are you asking for "proof"? tipical ......GO AND LOOK YOURSELF" am not doing all the work for you.

lol at saying my asking for "proof" is typical as if asking for proof is a bad thing. I don't even know where to look it up for myself because everything that i have already seen leads me to believe the opposite of what you said. Perhaps you could point me to your secret information source that isn't corrupted by government/corporations.

I don't see anything on the first page to support your claims or to dismiss others. The only thing i see on the first page is you pointed out that an over does of a substance in a small animal will kill it and that Nazi once used flouride therefore fluoride must always be bad lol.

Now by what i can recall from memory and a quick look at a few things i have been even more convinced that you are wrong since you have posted a lot of missinformation.

First one of the most common types of rat posion uses warifan (sp?) which is a vitamin K antagonist meaning it will prevent vitamin K from being absored. Since vitamin K is need for blood clotting the way it works to kill the rodents it it prevents them from being able to have blood cloating and they will have internal bleeding which in return obviously causes them to die.

Now you claim sodium flouride is used to kill rats but after a quick look the only thing i could find was sodium flouroacetate is used sometimes. Maybe you don't think that the small differences between floruide and flouroacetate is a big difference but i can tell you people who understand the mechanisms how how these chemicals interact will tell you there is a big difference.

Also, just looking on the wiki page it says sodium flouride (mind you no acetate) USED to be added to drinking water in the US but they now have other compounds that they add to drinking water instead of NaF.

But hey believe whatever you want to believe like you said ignorance is bliss. Only read into the one side of the argument and believe what you want. Just know you will not convince anyone with your arugment and definetly not with your condesending tone.

[matcoon]

Can someone please post a link to a scientific study of fluoride where they include the testing procedure? (serious)

I highly doubt that.





Oh high there astaldoath can't imagine why you're in the red.

[OwneD.TBH]

What facts am i denying because as far as i can tell i haven't denied any "facts", futhermore it seems to me that you are the one denying the facts such as the fact that dentist/research says fluroide is good for your teeth.

You attack me knowledge and say i don't know what i'm talking about and instead of explain your stance better you basically just call me dumb and ignorant. You get "people like me" all the time because this is how people react to "people like you". Who do i listen to? The scientific communitity that backs up what they say with scientific research and mechanisms of how thing help specifically as well as scienfic studies and reasearch data to further their understand and continue to increase what they know. Or do i listen to the guy who calls me ignorant, says i don't know even, and then when i ask to have more explained to me i am told to look it up for myself. Its not wonder people don't take you seriously.

The reason people can't prove you wrong is because there is nothing to prove wrong. Your claiming that current information is wrong so your right i can't prove you wrong because your saying that the information that would "prove" you wrong is the very information your saying is wrong. Since you are claiming it to be wrong it is you that needs to prove it. When two sides disagree you can't expect people to take the said who's only evidence for there claim is that the evidence already accpted is wrong.



lol at saying my asking for "proof" is typical as if asking for proof is a bad thing. I don't even know where to look it up for myself because everything that i have already seen leads me to believe the opposite of what you said. Perhaps you could point me to your secret information source that isn't corrupted by government/corporations.

I don't see anything on the first page to support your claims or to dismiss others. The only thing i see on the first page is you pointed out that an over does of a substance in a small animal will kill it and that Nazi once used flouride therefore fluoride must always be bad lol.

Now by what i can recall from memory and a quick look at a few things i have been even more convinced that you are wrong since you have posted a lot of missinformation.

First one of the most common types of rat posion uses warifan (sp?) which is a vitamin K antagonist meaning it will prevent vitamin K from being absored. Since vitamin K is need for blood clotting the way it works to kill the rodents it it prevents them from being able to have blood cloating and they will have internal bleeding which in return obviously causes them to die.

Now you claim sodium flouride is used to kill rats but after a quick look the only thing i could find was sodium flouroacetate is used sometimes. Maybe you don't think that the small differences between floruide and flouroacetate is a big difference but i can tell you people who understand the mechanisms how how these chemicals interact will tell you there is a big difference.

Also, just looking on the wiki page it says sodium flouride (mind you no acetate) USED to be added to drinking water in the US but they now have other compounds that they add to drinking water instead of NaF.

But hey believe whatever you want to believe like you said ignorance is bliss. Only read into the one side of the argument and believe what you want. Just know you will not convince anyone with your arugment and definetly not with your condesending tone.

i am going round and round in circles trying to explain. but you will only believe what your TV says i guess. not that fact that there is over a 10000 websites, doctors, documents and videos all stating FACTS! that sodium fluoride is not what we are told it is. fluoride is a tiny tiny tiny part in this there is a million other deady chemicals and toxins that "just happen" to be in our food, water and medical supplys but i guess its all a coincidence yeah?

sodium flouride
mercury
aspartame
acesulfame-k
sucralose
melamine
sodium nitrite
potassium bromate

the list is endless

and what about all the thousands of E-numbers loads of them known to cause cancers all the artificial coloring,flavors,preservatives all the GMO and GM crops with depleted nutrition all processed food just empty calories with no nutritional value whatsoever. you take peoples nutrition, vitamins and minerals away and there going to get sick, there going to get cancer and numinous other diseases but i guess its all a big coincidence hey? humankind is the most advanded its ever been and yet we have the highest disease and disorders then we ever have and its increasing. but i guess its normal right? i guess we should all just put our attention on the "terrorists" who are trying to kill us all because they hate our freedom. what a ****ing joke

[blananana2]

You get "people like me" all the time because this is how people react to "people like you".

pwnage.

that one's going in the sig lol

[stealth_swimmer]

why do you think they hate the internet so much and want to bring it under control?? because its the only source of truth. dont get me wrong there is alot of bull**** on the internet but its also a encyclopedia of truth

ok maybe your misreading what i put or ive mislead you somewhere....

every MAINSTREAM media company from your TV,Newspaper,Magazines (which is about 90% of information not including the internet) is controlled by one of them 6 corps.

There are also politicians against the regulation of the internet. What about them? Maybe that means the internet is BAD. lol.


As for mainstream media...what do I care? Anyone that knows a bit of history and economics at least can tell when they're just BSing you.

[stealth_swimmer]

What facts am i denying because as far as i can tell i haven't denied any "facts", futhermore it seems to me that you are the one denying the facts such as the fact that dentist/research says fluroide is good for your teeth.

You attack me knowledge and say i don't know what i'm talking about and instead of explain your stance better you basically just call me dumb and ignorant. You get "people like me" all the time because this is how people react to "people like you". Who do i listen to? The scientific communitity that backs up what they say with scientific research and mechanisms of how thing help specifically as well as scienfic studies and reasearch data to further their understand and continue to increase what they know. Or do i listen to the guy who calls me ignorant, says i don't know even, and then when i ask to have more explained to me i am told to look it up for myself. Its not wonder people don't take you seriously.

The reason people can't prove you wrong is because there is nothing to prove wrong. Your claiming that current information is wrong so your right i can't prove you wrong because your saying that the information that would "prove" you wrong is the very information your saying is wrong. Since you are claiming it to be wrong it is you that needs to prove it. When two sides disagree you can't expect people to take the said who's only evidence for there claim is that the evidence already accpted is wrong.



lol at saying my asking for "proof" is typical as if asking for proof is a bad thing. I don't even know where to look it up for myself because everything that i have already seen leads me to believe the opposite of what you said. Perhaps you could point me to your secret information source that isn't corrupted by government/corporations.

I don't see anything on the first page to support your claims or to dismiss others. The only thing i see on the first page is you pointed out that an over does of a substance in a small animal will kill it and that Nazi once used flouride therefore fluoride must always be bad lol.

Now by what i can recall from memory and a quick look at a few things i have been even more convinced that you are wrong since you have posted a lot of missinformation.

First one of the most common types of rat posion uses warifan (sp?) which is a vitamin K antagonist meaning it will prevent vitamin K from being absored. Since vitamin K is need for blood clotting the way it works to kill the rodents it it prevents them from being able to have blood cloating and they will have internal bleeding which in return obviously causes them to die.

Now you claim sodium flouride is used to kill rats but after a quick look the only thing i could find was sodium flouroacetate is used sometimes. Maybe you don't think that the small differences between floruide and flouroacetate is a big difference but i can tell you people who understand the mechanisms how how these chemicals interact will tell you there is a big difference.

Also, just looking on the wiki page it says sodium flouride (mind you no acetate) USED to be added to drinking water in the US but they now have other compounds that they add to drinking water instead of NaF.

But hey believe whatever you want to believe like you said ignorance is bliss. Only read into the one side of the argument and believe what you want. Just know you will not convince anyone with your arugment and definetly not with your condesending tone.

^^^

i am going round and round in circles trying to explain. but you will only believe what your TV says i guess. not that fact that there is over a 10000 websites, doctors, documents and videos all stating FACTS! that sodium fluoride is not what we are told it is. fluoride is a tiny tiny tiny part in this there is a million other deady chemicals and toxins that "just happen" to be in our food, water and medical supplys but i guess its all a coincidence yeah?

LOL WUT

When did he ever cite a TV station?

Anyways, you're saying there are tons of websites, doctors, documents, and videos all stating facts....well there are the exact same things saying the OPPOSITE of what you're saying...except there's more on the side opposite of you...or at least it would seem that way seeing as most folks, not just ordinary folks but also people in scientific fields, have generally accepted that view.

[bp16]

And, we have more people on the planet now, so there would be more cases of cancer.

More people does not = higher rates of cancer. It means more people getting it, not a greater %.

[XiZBiT]

Look, if you feel that nuclear and aluminum biproducts are good for you, but Transfats in food are bad for you, you have a serious issue in judgement, and this is scares me.

[Stizzel]

Cancer rates have dropped, chief.

http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...862309,00.html

From cancer.org:

Lifetime risk refers to the probability that an individual,
over the course of a lifetime, will develop or die from
cancer. In the US, men have slightly less than a 1 in 2
lifetime risk of developing cancer; for women, the risk is
a little more than 1 in 3.

On top of that, child cancer rates are skyrocketing. Anyone that takes this time article seriously needs their head examined.

In fact, the number of illnesses normally attributed to old age are on the rise in children. Did you know 12 year olds are getting alzheimers? Yet another disease linked to sodium fluoride.

Over time your teeth naturally lose calcium and enamel. The fluoride replaces lost calcium and also prevents cavities cus cavities can't grow on the fluoride as good as they normally would on your teeth. You ain't supposed to swallow it though cus your body naturally replaces calcium in bones and swallowing too much fluoride over time is bad for your bones cus it prevents them from replenishing their calcium.

You're thinking of calcium fluoride. I understand the confusion, I've never seen 'pro fluoride' research done that didn't misleadingly study calcium fluoride in an effort to justify medicating the public with sodium fluoride.

Calcium fluoride is natural, sodium fluoride is a deadly toxin created as a waste product from a number of sources, including the fertilizer industry.

Go ahead and take a tour of your local water facility and take a look at the hazard suits the guys adding fluoride wear. Inhaling pure sodium fluoride would kill you instantly.

I thought they stopped putting it in water?

Globally, yes, for the most part. But not in the U.S.

Can someone please post a link to a scientific study of fluoride where they include the testing procedure? (serious)

There has been a multitude of research done. www.fluorideresearch.org would be a good place to start.