When comparing the amount of reps in strength vs hypertrophy

[ThiZzNation925]

At the end of a workout, should they come out to the same, or near the same?

If not, what would determine why one would come out to be more/less over the other?

-Body type?
-Lift numbers?
-Genetics?

Example:

On a strength day you do two exercises of 5x5; that's 10 sets of 50 total reps.

On a hypertrophy day, you do three exercises of 3x8; that's 9 sets of 72 total reps.

So the question remains, should your total workload be the same? And if not, what would determine it to be different?

EDIT: My question comes from an originally posted thread here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=112116661

Week 1-3 ? Sets of 8-10 (ex: 3 x 8-10)
Week 4-6 ? Sets of 6-8 (ex: 4 x 6-8)
Week 7-9 ? Sets of 4-6 (ex: 5 x 5)
Week 9 (unload - 2 sets of 12-15 easy)
Week 10-12 Start over with sets of 8-10

See how the number of reps stays around 25 while the rep range decreases?

[ThiZzNation925]

Bump

[mentalmorph]

Measuring workload doesn't only rely on the total volume it also relies also upon the total intensity and the internal effects upon your physiological systems.

As far as volume is concerned if you are lifting heavy you may be doing less total reps but you may have lifted more total weight.

So the volume actually could be very similar between the lifting heavy day and the less heavy day.

It may be the case that your perceived intensity is higher on the less heavy day because you have worked faster.

However by lifting heavy you are also stressing your systems with intensiveness of each individual lift.

So no they should not come out nearly the same.

What would determine why the total final numbers of reps would probably be most likely the way you have structured your workout and what you are working to train.

They can come out similar if you structure your training differently but they probably shouldn't.

Thinking about total numbers of reps per workout can be confusing.

I would prefer to think about total numbers of exercises, total numbers of sets per exercise and how many reps there should be in each set.

For example a strength training program may have less total exercises for the main muscle group but more sets of lower reps, whereas with bodybuilding the same group may have more exercises, less sets and more reps.

The total work done in terms your systems capacity will be similar even if the objective numbers are different.

[jdmalm123]

In the end, you're endeavoring to increase volume and intensity for maximum hypertrophy.

For raw strength, intensity is more important but, for hypertrophy, volume is generally more important.

[mentalmorph]

In the end, you're endeavoring to increase volume and intensity for maximum hypertrophy.

For raw strength, intensity is more important but, for hypertrophy, volume is generally more important.

I have found that I have had to decrease numbers of sets as my strength had gone up because I am lifting more weight per set.

So I feel like I am reducing the volume to achieve the same results.

However it is probably staying very similar as the weights are heavier.

I have increased the volume of weight lifted in each set but reduced the volumous number of actual sets if you follow.

For me volume is more important for raw strength and a balance between volume and intensity for hypertrophy.

[jdmalm123]

I have found that I have had to decrease numbers of sets as my strength had gone up because I am lifting more weight per set.

So I feel like I am reducing the volume to achieve the same results.

However it is probably staying very similar as the weights are heavier.

I have increased the volume of weight lifted in each set but reduced the volumous number of actual sets if you follow.

For me volume is more important for raw strength and a balance between volume and intensity for hypertrophy.

I agree. It's the same premise, you're just adjusting based on your individual response, recovery, etc. as any experienced lifter should.

[mentalmorph]

Yes it's that exactly.

[ThiZzNation925]

Thanks for the replies from both of you, I have a better understanding.

In the end, you're endeavoring to increase volume and intensity for maximum hypertrophy.

For raw strength, intensity is more important but, for hypertrophy, volume is generally more important.

In other words, thats why BBers on roids will do 20+ sets on a chest day - Because the total volume and intensity is > the amount of weight moved? However, the weight does still increase, but the amount of volume is more important as your skill level increases?

[jdmalm123]

In other words, thats why BBers on roids will do 20+ sets on a chest day - Because the total volume and intensity is > the amount of weight moved? However, the weight does still increase, but the amount of volume is more important as your skill level increases?

Yes, even though they may track total poundages, it's a relative measure. You'd see that the major portion of any BBers total poundage increase comes mostly from more sets, not significantly heavier weights.

Consider:

3x3 Better for strength (9 heavy reps)

3x10 Better for hypertrophy (30 moderate reps)

10x3 Best of both worlds? (30 heavy reps)

[ThiZzNation925]

Yes, even though they may track total poundages, it's a relative measure. You'd see that the major portion of any BBers total poundage increase comes mostly from more sets, not significantly heavier weights.

Consider:

3x3 Better for strength (9 heavy reps)

3x10 Better for hypertrophy (30 moderate reps)

10x3 Best of both worlds? (30 heavy reps)

However, it would be beneficial to include all rep ranges into a workout? Especially for someone making a transition from a pure strength routine to a hypertrophy routine. So maybe something like:

Flat Bench
2x5
2x3

Incline Bench
1x8
2x6

Dips
1x10
1x8

Flat Flies
2x12

I also read in the article, it would be beneficial to start with one heavy compound movement, then immediately do the rest of your exercises in a hypertrophy range.

I guess it all comes down to, as stated before, what works best for you. Seems as though anything can work, with the appropriate diet of course.

[bluedot]

Someone asked a similar question not too long ago, a couple people commented that my reply was helpful:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post243493651

[mentalmorph]

However, it would be beneficial to include all rep ranges into a workout? Especially for someone making a transition from a pure strength routine to a hypertrophy routine. So maybe something like:

Flat Bench
2x5
2x3

Incline Bench
1x8
2x6

Dips
1x10
1x8

Flat Flies
2x12

I also read in the article, it would be beneficial to start with one heavy compound movement, then immediately do the rest of your exercises in a hypertrophy range.

I guess it all comes down to, as stated before, what works best for you. Seems as though anything can work, with the appropriate diet of course.

Combining rep ranges is a good idea.

Pyramiding is an excellent way of achieving this.

[ptwa9]

Volume is an overloaded word. As far as definitions I like:

weekly workload = intensity x volume x frequency = sets x reps x load x number of times lift performed/week.

So really, you're just trading intensity for volume (sets*reps). The total workload is roughly the same.

[jdmalm123]

However, it would be beneficial to include all rep ranges into a workout? Especially for someone making a transition from a pure strength routine to a hypertrophy routine. So maybe something like:

Flat Bench
2x5
2x3

Incline Bench
1x8
2x6

Dips
1x10
1x8

Flat Flies
2x12

I also read in the article, it would be beneficial to start with one heavy compound movement, then immediately do the rest of your exercises in a hypertrophy range.

I guess it all comes down to, as stated before, what works best for you. Seems as though anything can work, with the appropriate diet of course.

Yes, you've got it.

Mentalmorph makes a good point. A true pyramid (warmup to heavy and then work back down) followed by some hypertrophy targeted isolation moves is a good combo.

PTWA9 is correct, but the point is, once you hit the right volume, you also want to gradually increase the weights as well. Not as dramatically as you would on a strength program, but with some regularity.

I prefer using the same weight for 2-3 workouts and increase the reps, then when you hit a rep target, add weight, drop reps and work up again.

WO1 100x8
WO2 100x10
WO3 100x12

WO4 105x8
WO5 105x10
WO6 105x12

etc

[GuiYoM]

What can be influenced by a training protocol is the total degree in which hypertrophy//strength will occur.

[Real00]

Yes, even though they may track total poundages, it's a relative measure. You'd see that the major portion of any BBers total poundage increase comes mostly from more sets, not significantly heavier weights.

Consider:

3x3 Better for strength (9 heavy reps)

3x10 Better for hypertrophy (30 moderate reps)

10x3 Best of both worlds? (30 heavy reps)

I might consider doing something different like this.Its interesting.Is this training the muscle's twice or 3 times a week though?? I can't see doing Squats on a 10x3 though.

[ThiZzNation925]

I might consider doing something different like this.Its interesting.Is this training the muscle's twice or 3 times a week though?? I can't see doing Squats on a 10x3 though.

If you did 10x3, it would most likely just be one heavy compound movement, then be done. Maybe 1-2 sets of a accessory after, but thats it.

[Real00]

If you did 10x3, it would most likely just be one heavy compound movement, then be done. Maybe 1-2 sets of a accessory after, but thats it.

I only do Bench Presses for Chest and Squats for legs.I was wondering a 10x3 when doing Squats may be a little rough on the joints.I don't use that much weight because I do full Squats.The 3x3,3x10,10x3 program is definately a program that means heavy weight.I have to try something different because my strength and muscularity is not what it use to be.Im hoping if I start this tommorow it will help me with strength which in turn will create muscle gains later.

[ThiZzNation925]

I only do Bench Presses for Chest and Squats for legs.I was wondering a 10x3 when doing Squats may be a little rough on the joints.I don't use that much weight because I do full Squats.The 3x3,3x10,10x3 program is definately a program that means heavy weight.I have to try something different because my strength and muscularity is not what it use to be.Im hoping if I start this tommorow it will help me with strength which in turn will create muscle gains later.

I believe what he posted was not a program, but to illustrate what set x rep schemes do with the given numbers.

[jdmalm123]

I believe what he posted was not a program, but to illustrate what set x rep schemes do with the given numbers.

Correct, just comparing 'mostly strength' vs 'mostly hypertrophy' vs a blend.

REAL00: 10x3 squatting is realistic as long as you have no physical problems with squatting in general, have enough basic conditioning and use weights that you can control.

Consider that 20-rep squat programs have you do all 20 reps before you rack the weight! With 10x3, you'd do 3 reps, rest 2-5 minutes, do 3 more reps, etc.

[Real00]

Correct, just comparing 'mostly strength' vs 'mostly hypertrophy' vs a blend.

REAL00: 10x3 squatting is realistic as long as you have no physical problems with squatting in general, have enough basic conditioning and use weights that you can control.

Consider that 20-rep squat programs have you do all 20 reps before you rack the weight! With 10x3, you'd do 3 reps, rest 2-5 minutes, do 3 more reps, etc.

I can Bench around 290 and probably only full Squat 185 to 200 Max.When I do squats I go all the way to the ground.I have neglected my legs and core muscle's like alot of guy's.I can probably do 10 x 3 but I have a little Arthritis that flares up due to Lymes which I had over 19 year's ago other then that no major problems.I just don't know if I would hold up squatting 3 x's a week.

[jdmalm123]

I just don't know if I would hold up squatting 3 x's a week.

Then don't.
3x/week squatting is for conditioning beginner athletes.

If you only want basic health and have health limitations, then there's nothing wrong with doing less.

Try 10x3 on your heavy day and do some lighter front squats (3-4 sets, 8-10 reps) on another day.

[Real00]

Then don't.
3x/week squatting is for conditioning beginner athletes.

If you only want basic health and have health limitations, then there's nothing wrong with doing less.

Try 10x3 on your heavy day and do some lighter front squats (3-4 sets, 8-10 reps) on another day.

Well its just not 10 sets for Legs but that would include Chest,Back,Shoulder's as well I assume.Getting 3 work outs a week with these major muscle's with those 10 sets would take a while to complete especially resting over 3 minutes plus the other body parts that need to be trained.Maybe twice a week might be better.It would make a schedule a whole lot easier to incorporate both 1 high volume Heavy Day and one 3 or 4 set session per body part doing 8-10 Reps for Hypertrophy.

[jdmalm123]

Well its just not 10 sets for Legs but that would include Chest,Back,Shoulder's as well I assume.Getting 3 work outs a week with these major muscle's with those 10 sets would take a while to complete especially resting over 3 minutes plus the other body parts that need to be trained.Maybe twice a week might be better.It would make a schedule a whole lot easier to incorporate both 1 high volume Heavy Day and one 3 or 4 set session per body part doing 8-10 Reps for Hypertrophy.

Who says you need to do 10x3 for every body part at the same time.

You could 10x3 your weakness and hypertrophy the rest. After you make some progress, 10x3 a different area.

[Real00]

My body felt different around age 35 to 36 and thats why Im trying to figure out what to go with.I still can get into great shape but my strength has suffered.I wouldn't say this is all age related because for the past 3 years I have been dealing with traumatic stress.I wonder if the 3x8-10 for Hypertrophy is enough volume?? Hitting each muscles twice a week is definately better then hitting them once a week for sure.