Combining bodybuilding/powerlifting for equal progess in aesthetics/strength/power

[mentalmorph]

'Combining bodybuilding/powerlifting for equal progess in aesthetics/strength/power'

I am an amateur bodybuilder/powerlifter who is interested in developing a bodybuilding program that will cover all bodybuilding related aims, such as size, proportion, symmetry etc while still achieving maximum progress in deadlift, squat, and bench numbers.

Initially lifting as a bodybuilder I have made the most progress in my physique by focusing on DL, SQ, BP.

Later lifting as powerlifter to increase my numbers I have trained Westside but have felt my physique slip away from my bodybuilding ideal. I have become slightly smaller and a little less proportioned.

My desire is to do both at the same time and believe it must be possible.

Powerlifting was developed out of bodybuilding after all.

Let me know if you disagree that this idea is possible.

I have come up with the following split which combines elements of Westside with a four day bodybuilding split.

Let me know what you think, is it possible to achieve equal progress in aesthetics, strength and power, will this program work?

If anyone else has tried a similar thing let me know.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Notes

- Dynamic speed and max effort movements should swap on week two, and possibly change altogether on week three.
- High volume.
- Initally posted in the 'article' section but didn't ever appear.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Day 1 - Workout A - Chest/Bench Press

Dynamic speed on main support exercise - Incline close grip bench 60% 1RM 3 sets 10 reps 30 secs rest

Max effort - Flat bench DB 5 x 3 90+% 1RM

Bodybuilding move - Flat flies 3 x 8

Triceps 3 sets

Biceps 3 sets

(17 sets total)

HIIT - 12 x 15 seconds sprints 45 seconds rest

Time - 1 hour

Day 2 - Rest

Day 3 - Workout B - Back/Deadlift

Dynamic speed on main support exercise - Bent over row 60% 1RM 3 sets 10 reps 30 secs rest

Max effort - Deadlift 5 x 3 90+% 1RM

Bodybuilding move/Support - Weighted pull ups 3 X 8

Good mornings 3 sets

Hamstrings 3 sets

(17 sets total)

Time - 50 minutes

Day 4 - Rest

Day 5 - Workout C - Shoulders/and support

Seated DB shoulder press 3 x 8

Seated behind head BB press 3 x 8

Lateral raises 3 x 8

BB shrugs 3 x 8

Side Deadlifts 3 x 8

Forearms 3 x 8

(18 sets total)

HIIT - 12 x 15 seconds sprints 45 seconds rest

Time - 1 hour

Day 6 - Rest

Day 7 - Workout D - Legs/Squat

Dynamic speed on main support exercise - Leg Extensions 60% 1RM 3 sets 10 reps 30 secs rest

Max effort - Squat 5 x 3 90+% 1RM

Bodybuilding move/Support - Walking dumbbell lunges 3 x 20 steps

Good mornings 3 sets

Side bends 3 sets

Calves 3 sets

(20 sets total)

Time - 1 hour 10 minutes

Day 8 - Rest

Day 9 - Week 2 Day 1
__________________________________________________ _______________

Comments

- Been doing this for a week now and really believe I am making better overall progress in aesthetics, strength and power.

[ThickAsABrick]

It is impossible to optimize everything at once.

[mentalmorph]

It is impossible to optimize everything at once.

why?

[ThickAsABrick]

why?

Specialization.

You have to train differently for optimal results in each discipline. You can achieve results in each simultaneously, but not optimal results.

[mentalmorph]

OK good answer.

[mentalmorph]

I will settle for equal progress rather than maximum progress.

[vicjg]

Specialization.

You have to train differently for optimal results in each discipline. You can achieve results in each simultaneously, but not optimal results.

I definitely agree.

But to the O/P, The Westside template is great in that it allows you to get in RE work & customize it to work on your weaknesses. In your case, it might be possible to treat the bb part of your goals as a "weakness" (not literally, but you get my point) and use more bodybuilding type movements and your volume work, after your main ME/DE lift.

On ME Bench Day, for example, you'd do you benching, followed by hypertrophy specific work.

This may work up to a certain point, but Thick is right, you won't get optimal results.

[mentalmorph]

.....

[mentalmorph]

I definitely agree.

But to the O/P, The Westside template is great in that it allows you to get in RE work & customize it to work on your weaknesses. In your case, it might be possible to treat the bb part of your goals as a "weakness" (not literally, but you get my point) and use more bodybuilding type movements and your volume work, after your main ME/DE lift.

On ME Bench Day, for example, you'd do you benching, followed by hypertrophy specific work.

This may work up to a certain point, but Thick is right, you won't get optimal results.

You are right Westside has the flexibility and vocabulary to describe what I am aiming for.

However I have had to explode westside (as I see it) to further accommodate 'weaknesses'.

For example:

Day 5 - Workout C - Shoulders/and support

Is a whole extra day that wouldn't normally appear in a westside routine (as far as I am aware, maybe my knowledge of westside is limited).

I suppose you could call it a 'weakness day'.

Conversely the powerlifting parts of my goals could be called 'weaknesses' and that it is the four day bodybuilding split that accommodates them.

However I imagine Simmons wouldn't be happy with bodybuilders stealing westside vocab and using it more generally than it was orignally intended for.

[vicjg]

Shoulders can be worked on both bench days. Adding a fifth day might take you even farther away from "optimal" results.

[mentalmorph]

Shoulders can be worked on both bench days. Adding a fifth day might take you even farther away from "optimal" results.

This is not a westside routine.

There is only one bench day.

There is no fifth workout.

One of the main reasons I am not doing strictly westside is that it is simply not possible to hit the shoulders with enough volume from enough angles.

The aesthetics of shoulders almost nearly always suffer on westside programs.

[vicjg]

That doesn't work for me.

It is four days in total.

Not sure you understood what I meant.

I meant I wouldn't add a fifth day. I would just squeeze in the shoulder work on the two bench days.

[mentalmorph]

There is no fifth workout. There are four workouts: Workout A, Workout B, Workout C, Workout D.

The days exist irrespective of the workouts, i.e. some days are rest days. 'Day 2' for example.

'Squeeze'-ing shoulder work on to a westside program doesn't cut it for the volume required for bodybuilding aesthetics, hence the combination of the different styles of training.

[mentalmorph]

.....

[vicjg]

I'm just throwing out ideas here, but what about 4 days each with a main lift for strength. Squat, Bench, Deadlift, OH Press. Try to hit new PRs of 5,3,2,1. Different rep range each week.

Then add in your hypertrophy work after that.

This is pretty much the way you have it setup now but I would drop the dynamic work.

[mentalmorph]

I'm just throwing out ideas here, but what about 4 days each with a main lift for strength. Squat, Bench, Deadlift, OH Press. Try to hit new PRs of 5,3,2,1. Different rep range each week.

Then add in your hypertrophy work after that.

This is pretty much the way you have it setup now but I would drop the dynamic work.

You're right this is the way I have set it up.

I have indeed been thinking about dropping the dynamic work (but keeping the same exercises, and putting max effort movement as the first movement).

Dynamic work never really helped me anyway.

[mentalmorph]

Specialization.

You have to train differently for optimal results in each discipline. You can achieve results in each simultaneously, but not optimal results.

Upon thinking about this some more I have come to the conclusion that because there is so much overlap between the two disciplines it is possible to get close to optimum results in each discipline.

At first I completely agreed with you, primarily because I believed I wouldn't be getting enough ab work in, due to the fact I have dropped 6 sets of abs per week to handle the extra volume of the bodybuilding sets.

However if BP and SQ are done without a belt this should close to fix this problem.

So I think it is definitely possible to get close to optimum (if not optimum, depending on your bodytype) powerlifting results.

The bodybuilding sets are very good supporting exercises.

As far as optimum bodybuilding results are concerned, I also intially had a fear that they would not be achievable, however I think that the angles and rep ranges offered are very close to covering that.

I would argue that it is possible to get 95%-100% results on powerlifting goals and probably 90%-95% on bodybuilding goals.

For me excellent bodybuilding results are achievable just through keeping it simple and keeping bodyfat down, and although this program may not be 'simple' all the foundation movements for an excellent physique are there.

I have been thinking about real-life people whose physiques and abilities illustrate my aim.

I would say the most accomplished in all of the four areas relative to his time period was Franco Columbo. Although the concession is that powerlifting was not so developed at that point.

Another notable figure would be Ronnie Coleman who has very obviously had one of the best bodybuilding physiques of all time and was very very strong at the same instant. Arguably he was not entirely comparable to powerlifters in strength because of his extra bodybuilding weight, however he was probably more or less as strong as he ever could have been, and had he wanted to be a powerlifter he would have likely dropped the 'unnecessary' size on some 'irrelevant' areas and won everything.

Mariusz Pudzanowski had an adonis-type physique. I have the feeling he could have won a lot of bodybuilding competitions without any extra training. Maybe he did, I should read more.

Arnold Schwarzenegger was strongest man in Austria and his physique speaks for itself.

There are probably many to be found, especially on national level, who won both bodybuilding/powerlifting competitions in the same season.

[Darkmind]

http://strengthmd.com/articles/archi...s_westside.htm

Westside for Skinny Bastards is probably the best routine you can do for your goals.

[mentalmorph]

http://strengthmd.com/articles/archi...s_westside.htm

Westside for Skinny Bastards is probably the best routine you can do for your goals.

My own routine is the better one for me. I know my body.

However the link was interesting.

It confirms my belief that westside restricts shoulder development and that other lifters have found the need to adapt westside also.

Thanks for posting it.