Deadlifting - singles vs 3-5 rep ranges

[Baby_Hulk]

So, for the longest time I have been deadlifting using 3-5 rep ranges, but I am considering switching to singles instead. I am curious as to the advantages and disadvanges of both. If I understand it correctly, singles are more conducive towards building max strength, but are also more taxing on the body and should only be performed once every two weeks or so to ensure that the body is not overly taxed. Rep ranges such as triples, on the other hand, can be performed every week. Am I correct or incorrect in my understanding?

Also, I have never worn a belt, even when I max out or go to failure. If I were to do singles, would it be more beneficial healthwise to start using one? All things considered, I would prefer to not use one, even if it means pulling less weight.

Thanks guys.

[tinyman5000]

what % of your max are you doing singles

[Baby_Hulk]

I'm not sure. It seems as if my max changes every week, as I'm currently cutting. So sometimes it seems as if the weight I'm doing is a good 90-100% of my max, and other times I can get it for a good 3-4 reps. It fluctuates like crazy.

[BigWig58]

No matter what, DO NOT GRIND WEIGHTS.

If you are going to do singles, do like 8-10 singles, 60 seconds between and using a weight you can pull fast. If you start using upwards of 95+% you'll stall and go backwards pretty fast.

[mangiventofly]

actually i've been pulling 90% or higher for singles for a while now and its worked nicely for me. different strokes for different folks.

[Doenitz79]

Pull singles with your 3RM-shouldnt be straining too much.

[JTwood]

So, for the longest time I have been deadlifting using 3-5 rep ranges, but I am considering switching to singles instead. I am curious as to the advantages and disadvanges of both. If I understand it correctly, singles are more conducive towards building max strength, but are also more taxing on the body and should only be performed once every two weeks or so to ensure that the body is not overly taxed. Rep ranges such as triples, on the other hand, can be performed every week. Am I correct or incorrect in my understanding?

Also, I have never worn a belt, even when I max out or go to failure. If I were to do singles, would it be more beneficial healthwise to start using one? All things considered, I would prefer to not use one, even if it means pulling less weight.

Thanks guys.

for your sake USE A BELT. yes it will help you pull more weight, and hey, who doesnt want to do that? but more improtantly it holds your insides altogether (for lack of a better term) hernia = bad.

and i train with 3's and 5's more then 1's. when i do 1's, i go for a max. some days i will do 2's also. i dont have a program i just do what i feel like

[kinglifter]

Even if im doing sets of 3-5, it looks like singles with a big breath in between. If im really doing singles with a heavy weight i will have a long break in between. If im doing speed work its "singles" but just enough time in between to step back and reset my stance. It doesnt matter if your doing singles or triples, if you do it really hard every week your asking for trouble. You have wave the intensities.

[JTwood]

Even if im doing sets of 3-5, it looks like singles with a big breath in between. If im really doing singles with a heavy weight i will have a long break in between. If im doing speed work its "singles" but just enough time in between to step back and reset my stance. It doesnt matter if your doing singles or triples, if you do it really hard every week your asking for trouble. You have wave the intensities.

you should only deadlift once a week at most, and as said you shouldnt go balls heavy every week. and only do max attempts monthly

[BigWig58]

actually i've been pulling 90% or higher for singles for a while now and its worked nicely for me. different strokes for different folks.

Your deadlift is listed at 350 pounds. So you're pulling 315 or so. This isn't going to be a problem. Guys who are deadlifting at 500-600-700 can't pull at 90% for very long without overtraining, unless they are doing it rarely. It's not about different strokes it's about the fact that once your lifts get up there, what worked for you at 350 isn't going to work for you at 600 for a whole lot of reasons.

[Rawngus]

Your deadlift is listed at 350 pounds. So you're pulling 315 or so. This isn't going to be a problem. Guys who are deadlifting at 500-600-700 can't pull at 90% for very long without overtraining, unless they are doing it rarely. It's not about different strokes it's about the fact that once your lifts get up there, what worked for you at 350 isn't going to work for you at 600 for a whole lot of reasons.

i pull 575 and i grind some kind of deadlift variation weekly just sayin

[BigWig58]

then why is your deadlift listed as 350?

Second, for 99% of the guys out there pulling grinding reps will send the deadlift right into the ground. I'm not saying never to go heavy, but there is a reason that a lot of guys don't pull often and the ones that do don't pull super heavy. Andy Bolton only gets above 80% for about a week in an 8 week block. Brad Gillingham only pulls heavy from the rack and never from the floor. Kroc pulls every other week. If you can name me a top deadlifter who is doing 90%+ every week for singles go ahead.

[Baby_Hulk]

for your sake USE A BELT. yes it will help you pull more weight, and hey, who doesnt want to do that? but more improtantly it holds your insides altogether (for lack of a better term) hernia = bad.

and i train with 3's and 5's more then 1's. when i do 1's, i go for a max. some days i will do 2's also. i dont have a program i just do what i feel like

I don't understand this. Why are belts necessary? Not that I'm a powerlifter, but they aren't allowed at meets, right? So why train with one? I'd like my core to get as strong as possible. I usually try to avoid any gear where possible.

I understand what you're saying with the hernia though, but is it really necessary?

[cjdelaney]

I don't understand this. Why are belts necessary? Not that I'm a powerlifter, but they aren't allowed at meets, right? So why train with one? I'd like my core to get as strong as possible. I usually try to avoid any gear where possible.

I understand what you're saying with the hernia though, but is it really necessary?

belts are allowed at meets

read this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=108908741

[A-rod]

I much prefer training with heavy singles on deads (usually at about 90% max) and some light cleans for triples with small plates to help my starting strenght. Dead singles allow you to use better form and focus on each rep, since we only do singles during competition. Rep work is suited for building muscles mass, wich will help your pull too but singles improve you CNSWISE.

[Doenitz79]

Dead singles allow you to use better form and focus on each rep, since we only do singles during competition. Rep work is suited for building muscles mass, wich will help your pull too but singles improve you CNSWISE.

I have tried singles,triples and fives before.

As for your comment about singles being more conducive for form,I always find my 1st rep not so great in form...usually the 2nd and 3rd rep which are better form-wise(if I do a triple)

Indeed,I always feel weak for my 1st rep in all the lifts I do.

[A-rod]

I have tried singles,triples and fives before.

As for your comment about singles being more conducive for form,I always find my 1st rep not so great in form...usually the 2nd and 3rd rep which are better form-wise(if I do a triple)

Indeed,I always feel weak for my 1st rep in all the lifts I do.

Strange, but it comes to prove that everyone `s different.....maybe you lack pre-set focus of something, I cant think of enything else.

[smitsky]

I don't understand this. Why are belts necessary? Not that I'm a powerlifter, but they aren't allowed at meets, right? So why train with one? I'd like my core to get as strong as possible. I usually try to avoid any gear where possible.

I understand what you're saying with the hernia though, but is it really necessary?

I would not do a heavy Deadlift without wearing a belt.

Belts are allowed at meets.

Wearing a belt will not prevent your core from getting strong. Are you doing Abs? I do Abs every training session. If you do as well, your training your core.

[Doenitz79]

I would not do a heavy Deadlift without wearing a belt.

Belts are allowed at meets.

Wearing a belt will not prevent your core from getting strong. Are you doing Abs? I do Abs every training session. If you do as well, your training your core.

How much more pounds on the bar has wearing a belt given you?

For me,I dont wear a belt at all,just wondering how much more my max can go up by if I wear a belt.

[smitsky]

How much more pounds on the bar has wearing a belt given you?

For me,I dont wear a belt at all,just wondering how much more my max can go up by if I wear a belt.

I honestly don't have an idea. Sorry.

I don't go heavy at all in any lift without a belt. I push my Abs out against it and season my body to use it.

I practice in training what I will do at a meet.

[mangiventofly]

Your deadlift is listed at 350 pounds. So you're pulling 315 or so. This isn't going to be a problem. Guys who are deadlifting at 500-600-700 can't pull at 90% for very long without overtraining, unless they are doing it rarely. It's not about different strokes it's about the fact that once your lifts get up there, what worked for you at 350 isn't going to work for you at 600 for a whole lot of reasons.

maybe, maybe not

[BigWig58]

maybe, maybe not

You think what works for the guy at 350 pounds is the same thing that is going to work for him at 600 pounds (if he makes it to that)???????

No.

[mangiventofly]

You think what works for the guy at 350 pounds is the same thing that is going to work for him at 600 pounds (if he makes it to that)???????

No.

i'm sorry we haven't met before. you must be the guy that (thinks he) knows everything. training adapts to the situation. the same thing doesn't always work all the time. you never know what will work and what won't until you try it. so ditch the absolutes. just because it might not work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else at some point. am i the best example? no. i'll give you that one. but there are no absolute answers to most of the questions posted in these forums.

[BigWig58]

i'm sorry we haven't met before. you must be the guy that (thinks he) knows everything. training adapts to the situation. the same thing doesn't always work all the time. you never know what will work and what won't until you try it. so ditch the absolutes. just because it might not work for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else at some point. am i the best example? no. i'll give you that one. but there are no absolute answers to most of the questions posted in these forums.

wow, thanks for making my point.

It's an absolute fact that if you are going to reach the upper limits of your strength/physical ability in the weight room and on the platform your training will have to evolve. This isn't about me "knowing everything" this is just a fact of training. Otherwise, we could all just keep doing a newbie routine and the gains would keep on'a comin. They don't. And if you bang your head against the wall doing the same thing every workout, you will IN FACT hit a wall, and progress will cease.

Pulling 90+% singles does work. For a while. Then it will stop working. and that was the point I was making. And pulling 90+% every week, won't work for long if you are an advanced guy. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence and otherwise that supports this. Yes everyone is different, but the barbell has been around long enough that we know some things you can do, and some things you can't do from a majority standpoint. Sure, there will always be some freak who lifts heavy 5 days a week and gets big and strong as hell and eats 2500 cals a day doing it. Those rules don't apply to the norm.

So everyone can surely pull 90+% singles every week. But based upon my own time in the gym, and what about a dozen great deadlifters have confirmed to me this isn't the best way to go about it for long term progress. It could be part of a shorter cycle built into the year. It is not something you are going to do with success over a longer term training cycle, and I am always looking at the short, medium, and long term plans.

So there are some facts about lifting that we all know.

Everything works for a while. Nothing works forever. Just because pulling 90% every week works right now, means it's a great way to train over a long term period.

[mangiventofly]

wow, thanks for making my point.

It's an absolute fact that if you are going to reach the upper limits of your strength/physical ability in the weight room and on the platform your training will have to evolve. This isn't about me "knowing everything" this is just a fact of training. Otherwise, we could all just keep doing a newbie routine and the gains would keep on'a comin. They don't. And if you bang your head against the wall doing the same thing every workout, you will IN FACT hit a wall, and progress will cease.

Pulling 90+% singles does work. For a while. Then it will stop working. and that was the point I was making. And pulling 90+% every week, won't work for long if you are an advanced guy. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence and otherwise that supports this. Yes everyone is different, but the barbell has been around long enough that we know some things you can do, and some things you can't do from a majority standpoint. Sure, there will always be some freak who lifts heavy 5 days a week and gets big and strong as hell and eats 2500 cals a day doing it. Those rules don't apply to the norm.

So everyone can surely pull 90+% singles every week. But based upon my own time in the gym, and what about a dozen great deadlifters have confirmed to me this isn't the best way to go about it for long term progress. It could be part of a shorter cycle built into the year. It is not something you are going to do with success over a longer term training cycle, and I am always looking at the short, medium, and long term plans.

So there are some facts about lifting that we all know.

Everything works for a while. Nothing works forever. Just because pulling 90% every week works right now, means it's a great way to train over a long term period.

i guess maybe this is what i was trying to say. you're right. pulling singles won't work forever. but it may work at several different point in your lifting career. i'm just saying that just because it doesn't work for you now, doesn't mean it won't work in the future. but yes, i agree, it isn't something you want to do for long periods. that is generally accepted wisdom. so, i guess we agree now

[Dark_MadMax]

How much more pounds on the bar has wearing a belt given you?

For me,I dont wear a belt at all,just wondering how much more my max can go up by if I wear a belt.

I would say 20 lbs-30 lbs on squats and deads easily. I probably would be able to do same numbers beltless on a good day, but at certain point it just not worth risking it imho .Belt makes lift safer .

[Baby_Hulk]

Haha thanks for all the advice guys. Even though the thread kinda strayed away from what I originally was asking, I think I'm gonna look into getting a belt. Not immediately though. I think I'll get one once I pull 545 or so (I'm at 510 right now).

Anyways, other than belt info, anyone else have any comments on the initial question (singles vs triples and higher?)

[Baby_Hulk]

Also, how come Defranco's athletes don't wear belts when they deadlift?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0aHD...e=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY8k8...e=channel_page

[smitsky]

Haha thanks for all the advice guys. Even though the thread kinda strayed away from what I originally was asking, I think I'm gonna look into getting a belt. Not immediately though. I think I'll get one once I pull 545 or so (I'm at 510 right now).

Anyways, other than belt info, anyone else have any comments on the initial question (singles vs triples and higher?)

Let me try to answer your question, once I find out exactly what you're asking

You're at 510 now in the Deadlift.

By my calculations, you can pull about 440-445 X 5 and 475-480 X 3.

I'm used to making up programs like this, so I can pretty much tell you what you should be able to hit for X amount of reps on a good day. The X provided above is X=5 and X=3.

You are asking if you should be training Singles. How would you do this? What type of program would you set up?

If I were going to try to get you to 515 X 1 using Triples in 4 weeks, for example, I would set the program up like this for worksets:

Week 1: 465 X 3 X 3 Sets
Week 2: 475 X 3 X 3 Sets
Week 3: 485 X 3 X 3 Sets
Week 4: Testing new 1RM at 515 X 1

Actually, since 90% of 510 (your current 1RM) is 460, we would have to take into consideration that you were going to be doing the same exercise for 4 weeks in a row above 90%. If accomodation set in, we might not hit our goal. If you know a bit about Westside, you might see where I'm heading with this.

What's your idea re: Singles?

[Baby_Hulk]

Well my question really just was what are the advantages of doing singles vs triples and higher (3-5 reps). What I gather is that training with singles will lead to higher increases in strength, but that it can't be done all too often, or can't be done at a high percentage for a prolonged amount of time. Whereas 3-5 reps will not lead to the same type of maximal strength, but can be perfomed for a prolonged period of time, and you can make increases faster.

To correct myself... 510 was just what I pulled on Saturday. But I don't think it was my max. After I got it for 1 I set it down and tried for another, but couldn't get it above the shins and I just decided I would leave the rest for next time. About ten days ago I had pulled 505x3... it was an ugly 3, but 3 nonetheless. So yeah... I dunno. Maybe I should train deadlift every 10 days to 2 weeks?