Interesting thing about animal abuse and meat

[Skettch]

Those cages and hormones were created with our intelligence. We have became more intelligent through evolution. Is evolution natural?

This argument applies equally well to those who say not eating meat is unnatural.

[danny987]

genetic diversity gives you the ability to adapt to your surroundings, not intelligence

you are wrong. Genetic diversity may determine your offspring evolving into something with that ability, but your ability is measured in intelligence.

http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/co...ys/intell.html

[stevedarsh]

of course, it is the natural way to kill things as humanely as possible :/



let's all hold hands

[wincjw]

Fair enough. But it has been proven that vegetarians on average are shorter.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...tract/84/3/475

Its not lack of meat that results in an average vegeterian child being shorter(debatable in itself). More likely its the fact that their diets were not nutritionally balanced. This isnt something thats inherant to vegeterianism, as a balanced vegeterian diet provides everything that of a carnivores does. Its more a reflecion of the eating habits of the vegeterian families who participated. That study proves nothing.

[danny987]

Its not lack of meat that results in an average vegeterian child being shorter(debatable in itself). More likely its the fact that their diets were not nutritionally balanced. This isnt something thats inherant to vegeterianism, as a balanced vegeterian diet provides everything that of a carnivores does. Its more a reflecion of the eating habits of the vegeterian families who participated. That study proves nothing.

never said the reason behind it. I just said that they are on average.

[danny987]

fail. your own article defines intelligence as "Intelligence is the cognitive ability of an individual to learn from experience, to reason well, to remember important information..."

my lord...

Intelligence is not only one's ability to adapt to one's environment; it also includes changing that environment or selecting a new one.

[stevedarsh]

my lord...

wait a minute i think you're on my side

[danny987]

This argument applies equally well to those who say not eating meat is unnatural.

opinions have more to do with culture.

[Skettch]

opinions have more to do with culture.

This is not an opinion, I really have no idea what you are saying.

[SirChubalots]

i would have no problems being a vegan if it actually made a difference, i dont eat much meat anyway, i eat cheese and icecream, potatoes, spaghetti, theres alot of stuff...the thing is these animals are bred for meat...they wont live "happily" if their released, all these cows if you dont use them for meat what else are they gonna do, their gonna roam and die in nature, its the breeding process that should stop to completely solve this issue, all existing animals are gonna die, the good thing is peta gave some money to research a way to grow artificial meat, so the difference between chicken and artificial grown meat would be small, i think this would be the way out of this slaughter mess, artificially grown meat, should happen in the future

continuing to eat these individuals doesn't justify their exsistence, they would quickly go extinct in the wild.
For environmental and economic issues people will have to eat less meat , whether they like it or not. Meat and its subsiduaries are subsidized, the price we pay does not accurately reflect the resources inputed in the product or the environmental output.

(meat eater) not veggie

[danny987]

This is not an opinion, I really have no idea what you are saying.

Eating meat is unnatural= opinion. Do you know what opinion means? Opinion is a statement that is not proven correct or incorrect.

[Asian Lifter]

the way i see it, animal abuse doesn't usualy kill the animals to eat them. just to take out anger.

[momofo]

Jesus said we have dominion over the animals.

Scriptural reference please? Please include independent historical verification.

[Skettch]

Eating meat is unnatural= opinion. Do you know what opinion means? Opinion is a statement that is not proven correct or incorrect.

You reference evolution as means to justify certain acts as natural. That is an opinion that you hold.

My previous statment was not an opnion, my previous argument is as equally valid as yours.

[natescope]

you are wrong. Genetic diversity may determine your offspring evolving into something with that ability, but your ability is measured in intelligence.

http://chiron.valdosta.edu/whuitt/co...ys/intell.html

that is obviously a study on human intelligence. social adaptation is different than adaptation to survive. fail.

[wincjw]

never said the reason behind it. I just said that they are on average.

Your taking this information from a limited study that focused on a "collective community in Tennessee", and studied children only up to the age of ten? + add to that it only found a very modest difference in height. Any disparity in height is very probably from the children's lack of a balanced diet not from a vegeterian diet. Im quite sure if you studied carnivorous children from poorer backgrounds with nutritionally incomplete diets then they would be on average shorter. The only way you could comprehensively state vegeterian children are shorter is to present a more detailed study that ensured both vegeterian and non-vegeterian children eat balanced diets. (The study you showed is more of a reflection on vegeterian families overlooking their protein intake, than it is evidence proving vegeterian children are predisposed to be shorter)

[ZenBowman]

And what do we do? Live and die. Roam around the Earth for a while then die. It's life.

Nature was intended for us to eat meat, to hunt free animals in the wild and eat them. What we do is completely unnatural - we breed them and keep them in cages and inject them with hormones and basically give them a short, torturous life. It's not natural. Vegetarians aren't protesting against the food chain and nature, they're protesting against something completely unnatural and gruesome.

Absolutely true. Nothing wrong with hunting brahs, just them slaughterhouses...

Very good points. Repped.

I chose to stop eating meat a little while ago, when I realized this massive contradiction that people are feeding themselves with. Most of my family and friends think hunting is evil. Yet, none of them see anything wrong with purchasing supermarket meat and eating it. Exactly as you said, they imagine it just appears in the market all by itself.

Personally, I feel hunting is, at this point, the most ethical way of getting your meat. The meat industry cares nothing about the oppression and torture of animals, as for them, its all about the money. Whereas, the hunter, as he has to witness the full consequences of his meat, has a great deal more respect not just for the animal, but for mother Earth as well.

If I do eat meat again, it will be either (a) hunted meat, where the animal lived a good, free life; or (b) personally raised meat, where the animal had plenty of room, good sunlight, and good food, and either me or someone I know raised and killed the animal themselves.

Hunting supports Mother Nature.

[USAviator]

GTFO & STFU

[WWE-TicK]

Why eat animals? can you invent one reason other than the taste?

Because they're made of meat?

[...Kennedy]

It's a big world. People have different tastes when it comes to food. VegeNazis need to leave the rest of us to eat our animal flesh in peace.

[MindZiper]

oh well. as long as I dont have to see it... im good with it.

[KennyK]

[p0ng]

Just an interesting topic our teacher brought up in ethics class.

do you love meat and animals? do you hate it when someone smacks there dog or kicks it? Treating an animal bad leaving it in a cage. In fact now and days animals are raised to be eaten , locked in small cages, treated poorly no freedom. These same animals are comparable to dogs in intelligence but not so in meat.

Ever been to a slaughter house, a stunner punches a cow hard in the face, then it gets picked up, it's belly sliced wide open, keep in mind that they do this so that the chemicals that make protein start rushing and making the meat better and juicy. The cow is in fact still alive as it goes down converyor belt with it's belly sliced open in pain crying and mooing out. It's only when they finally cut the throat at the end does the cow feel free from the pain.

This is how good meat is made, so how can you cry about animal abuse and eat meat? Tons of animals same as dogs are being killed in brutal fashions, there homes taken away to make shopping malls. What you guys think?

I don't know if you've seen this... but i have been to a slaughter house and this is not what they do.

What they do is... they hang the animal by the legs, slice the throat so all of the blood rushes out while the heart is still pumping. the animal goes unconscious within seconds from loss of blood.

gross to watch, but that's how they do it.

[AleksV]

dogs= pets cows/chickens= food

[BangBrahs]

[Rambo26]

The best animals are only like that due to human breeding anyway (dogs )

Shape nature to your needs, eat meat and enjoy life!

[Scotty-Boy]

Just an interesting topic our teacher brought up in ethics class.

do you love meat and animals? do you hate it when someone smacks there dog or kicks it? Treating an animal bad leaving it in a cage. In fact now and days animals are raised to be eaten , locked in small cages, treated poorly no freedom. These same animals are comparable to dogs in intelligence but not so in meat.

Ever been to a slaughter house, a stunner punches a cow hard in the face, then it gets picked up, it's belly sliced wide open, keep in mind that they do this so that the chemicals that make protein start rushing and making the meat better and juicy. The cow is in fact still alive as it goes down converyor belt with it's belly sliced open in pain crying and mooing out. It's only when they finally cut the throat at the end does the cow feel free from the pain.

This is how good meat is made, so how can you cry about animal abuse and eat meat? Tons of animals same as dogs are being killed in brutal fashions, there homes taken away to make shopping malls. What you guys think?

In actual fact if the animal being slaughtered is in a scared or fearful state when it is killed there are chemicals which are released which do no appeal to us or the people selling the meat product. Therefore they keep the animals calm and kill them quick with as little stress as possible.

[forumdwarf]

Well let me give you some actual non-biased information since your teacher seems to think its ok not to give people two sides of the story:


First off most animals ARE NOT stored in small pens and cages. The majority of animals (aside from chickens for laying) are kept in larger enclosures that allow them to get exercise. Pigs are sometimes penned up in smaller spaces, but its never something that limits their ability to move.

When animals are slaughtered they're ALWAYS stuck with a hot knife first, or bolted. Punching a cow in the head was actually plausible to you? The hot knife paralyzes the cow, or kills it every time. You don't let a cow pass you if its stills moving. Now thats the part where most people say "oh my god its still alive" well if it is paralyzed it can't feel anything, so take it easy. I know 2 USDA inspectors, have been to SEVERAL slaughterhouses (5 for pigs, 3 cow), and they're all the same. The have 3 guys in a row sticking, or bolting the cattle. If the first guy doesn't get one the 2nd does. If the 2nd doesn't the 3rd does. We watched for about 10 minutes while the guy giving the tour spoke, and I didn't see any get by conscious. It was similar at the other plants as well. If you see the pace they go through at it would be nearly impossible for 3 guys to miss one.



Ethics is absolutely not a factor any more when it comes to slaughtering animals for 2 main reasons:

1) These animals wouldn't be what they are without years and years and years of genetic manipulation and selective breeding. Domestic breeds of cattle cannot give birth without aid anymore. If one of your cows or heifers goes off in the night to calve then usually by the time you get there shes dead, and the calf is dead. If we stopped killing cows, no one would bother taking care of them because its too expensive not to get any return on. Eventually they'd all die off.

2) The ethics can't be applied this late in the game. If you want to ask if you're acting ethically you need to ask yourself why you let the animals procreate in the first place. To propagate an entire species solely for the purpose of consumption is completely immoral and unethical by the standards you set in the first post.


Now, the pictures you see of animals in small enclosures (usually circulated by PETA and activist groups) are taken at: 1) county fairs, 2) feed lots, and 3) the cleaning pens. The significance of this is that in all 3 of those places the animals are in an unusually small space, but only for a tiny amount of time. In the cases of 1 and 3, its for the animals' safety and health that they are kept this way. In a feed lot they are kept confined for around 2 to 3 weeks to increase their size, BUT they still have enough space to exercise and move.




Totally Biased part below:

The cruelest things I've seen done to animals have been done by PETA members. I've seen 10 goats that had their throats slit by a member of PETA so that he could take their picture to make a flyer. He was handing the flyer out the NEXT DAY at county fair. He was obviously arrested. Another broke a cow's leg so it couldn't be sold. Instead it had to be killed because the injury would never heal. One guy sliced a pig several times with a box cutter to take its picture. He was stupid enough to do this during the day in front of us. He wasn't as lucky as the other two; they were only arrested, but he got arrested after getting his ass beat.

My point is a lot of the people that are supposedly for "animal rights" use subversive tactics, and embellished stories in order for you to feel the way they feel about the subject. Thats the difference between people who hate meat, and the people who sell and grow meat. They would rather murder an animal violently than let someone slaughter it humanely; I'm not gonna make you eat it, but I'm definitely going to kill it in the least painful way possible.