Keto Diet without Carb up

[Easy1234]

Hi, Im new to the forum though I've been lurking here for awhile. I need some clarification on a suggestion I saw in a couple of threads regarding carbing up only every 2-3 weeks to accelerate fat loss.

What is the result of 65/35/>5 without carb up. Wouldn't your body begin eating muscle to make the needed glycogen for intense weight training? Is there ever a point where your body will prefer fat over glycogen during exercise?

[LEX-UA]

Hi, Im new to the forum though I've been lurking here for awhile. I need some clarification on a suggestion I saw in a couple of threads regarding carbing up only every 2-3 weeks to accelerate fat loss.

What is the result of 65/35/>5 without carb up. Wouldn't your body begin eating muscle to make the needed glycogen for intense weight training? Is there ever a point where your body will prefer fat over glycogen during exercise?

Having a low carb diet with no carb up is asking for disaster. If you follow ANY kind of low carb diet at all, you need to have a single (or two) day of higher carbs, which offers muscle support minus the fat gain. See, replacing carbs with protein ramps fat metabolizing enzymes, however a prolonged period of carb deprivation can lower levels of a hormone called leptin, which will in turn lead to a metabolic rate drop. A high carb day boost leptin, and the metabolic rate as well.

[hugowrx04]

Having a low carb diet with no carb up is asking for disaster. If you follow ANY kind of low carb diet at all, you need to have a single (or two) day of higher carbs, which offers muscle support minus the fat gain. See, replacing carbs with protein ramps fat metabolizing enzymes, however a prolonged period of carb deprivation can lower levels of a hormone called leptin, which will in turn lead to a metabolic rate drop. A high carb day boost leptin, and the metabolic rate as well.

x2 u need a carb up.....it doesn't have to be an entire day but this you have to find out by experimenting

[Easy1234]

x2 u need a carb up.....it doesn't have to be an entire day but this you have to find out by experimenting

Thanks guys...makes total sense to me. What is your opinion in how often the carb up must be done? Is once a week a must?

[taf1968]

Thanks guys...makes total sense to me. What is your opinion in how often the carb up must be done? Is once a week a must?

Most people do once per week--some will go as far as 10 days to 2 weeks, but I think that is much less prevalent.

Or you can also go the TKD route and just target your additional carbs before/after your lifting. Whatever works best for you--everyone is a little different. Like others have said, you have to experiment with it a bit to find your best approach.

[SilverSpork]

Most people do once per week--some will go as far as 10 days to 2 weeks, but I think that is much less prevalent.

Or you can also go the TKD route and just target your additional carbs before/after your lifting. Whatever works best for you--everyone is a little different. Like others have said, you have to experiment with it a bit to find your best approach.

I've been finding I can only go a little longer than a week without a carbup, then I can't resist carbs. Right now I'm so damn sick of eating keto foods...

[Eileen]

Depends on you exercise intensity. If you lift hard 3-4 times a week, and train to failure or close, as well as plenty of cardio then a weekly carb-up is fine. Size of carb-up depends to some extent on the amount of muscle you are carrying. More muscle means you can eat more carbs. Most women and men who are not in competitive shape often find that a 12 hour carb-up (or even less) works better than 24-36 hours.

If your training is less intense, wait till you've trashed every muscle group and are feeling like a slug before you do your carb-up.

[Yojimbo36]

I was wondering why I have been feeling weak lately, this must be the reason. I go 2 weeks between carb ups but my activity level probably deserves one per week. Right now I am lifting heavy to failure on my last 2 sets Mon, Wed, and Fri. I am doing Cardio Tues, Thurs, Sat. and sometimes in the morning on lifting days.

Towards the end of my last week going into a carbup I am dragging ass pretty hard. I was worried that weekly carb ups may hinder my weight loss but I think for performance sake I better go to weekly carb ups.

[BigB02z28]

Don't mean to hi-jack, but is one Heavy Carb meal a week considered a "carb up", or does there need to be more?

I'm talking as maybe some of my favorite foods as a dinner on the weekend, Huge portions of Lasagna, Fetticini Alfredo, or even a Giant Submarine Sandwich?

I know that especially in the pasta dishes, if you go all out with 2 heaping portions, you can really have a great amount of carbs.

[oedipus99]

Don't mean to hi-jack, but is one Heavy Carb meal a week considered a "carb up", or does there need to be more?

I'm talking as maybe some of my favorite foods as a dinner on the weekend, Huge portions of Lasagna, Fetticini Alfredo, or even a Giant Submarine Sandwich?

I know that especially in the pasta dishes, if you go all out with 2 heaping portions, you can really have a great amount of carbs.

I know that a carb up generally refers to any time period in which the goal of eating (carbs) is to refill your muscle's glycogen stores, so yes, one heavy carb meal a week would be considered that. However, one meal, however heavy it may be, will probably not contain enough carbs to fully replenish your glycogen stores after 5-6 days of low carb eating/training.

[pointz54]

There's a reason the Atkin's diet wasn't meant for athletes. The lack of carb-ups was it.

[Eileen]

One meal might do it if you were not working out. If you are lifting you probably need more, though not necessarily a full day.

Keep it clean and low fat. Pasta with tomato sauce, turkey and salad sandwiches, stuff like that. Carbs and high fat are a bad combination.

[Mercersburgguy]

When should you start the Carb up? I have been doing this for 3 days roughly and I wanted to know do you have to wait for a ceratain time before you start the carb up? What type of foods does one eat when carbing up?

[Josh81]

i just have a cheat meal once every 2 weeks

[BigLarge]

Depends on you exercise intensity. If you lift hard 3-4 times a week, and train to failure or close, as well as plenty of cardio then a weekly carb-up is fine. Size of carb-up depends to some extent on the amount of muscle you are carrying. More muscle means you can eat more carbs. Most women and men who are not in competitive shape often find that a 12 hour carb-up (or even less) works better than 24-36 hours.

If your training is less intense, wait till you've trashed every muscle group and are feeling like a slug before you do your carb-up.

^^^^^^^

I've only been experimenting with Keto for a little over a month, using different workouts, and varying my carb up frequency.

At one point I was doing morning cardio 3X per week, and weights 5X per week. I noticed that at about the 6th day my engergy levels were ZERO, so i'd carb up on the 7th day.

Currently I am experimenting with ONLY weights 6X per week (no cardio). I find that even at 7 days I am still feeling pretty good.

[manatwork88]

When should you start the Carb up? I have been doing this for 3 days roughly and I wanted to know do you have to wait for a ceratain time before you start the carb up? What type of foods does one eat when carbing up?

yeah when do you. i have been doing 3 days as well

[IrishGirlwww]

When should you start the Carb up? I have been doing this for 3 days roughly and I wanted to know do you have to wait for a ceratain time before you start the carb up? What type of foods does one eat when carbing up?

U must do keto for 2 weeks straight before u do a carbup....this is to really get ur body into fat burning mode.
After the 2 weeks, u either carb up every week or wait till u feel ur body needs it due to lack of energy.
Alot of people talk about eating pizza, ice cream etc during the carbup and while u may get away with eating these foods, chances are they will slow ur fat loss.....ur better off sticking with 'clean' foods such as potatoes, oatmeal, wholegrain rice or pasta, turkey or chicken breast etc. Just make sure to keep ur fats low and ur good carbs high! Swop around ur macros durin carbup... eat 5% fat and 65% carbs.
Good luck!

[Wrestleislife]

There's a reason the Atkin's diet wasn't meant for athletes. The lack of carb-ups was it.

Thats funny since I am an athlete in a pretty intense sport. I train pretty intensely in circuits and do some high intensity cardio 6x a week. 3rd week of keto, zero carb ups, 15>g carbs per day, 75-80/20-25/Near 0 and no energy loss at all. I'm really starting to think this carb-up thing is a myth.

[johnnyironboard]

Hi, Im new to the forum though I've been lurking here for awhile. I need some clarification on a suggestion I saw in a couple of threads regarding carbing up only every 2-3 weeks to accelerate fat loss.

Usually the glycogen supercomposition phase lasts a day or two longer on the 14 day keto cycles.

The "Ultimate diet" was 14 days keto and 3 day carb up.

[Sammy_Koelle]

Thats funny since I am an athlete in a pretty intense sport. I train pretty intensely in circuits and do some high intensity cardio 6x a week. 3rd week of keto, zero carb ups, 15>g carbs per day, 75-80/20-25/Near 0 and no energy loss at all. I'm really starting to think this carb-up thing is a myth.

Same here.
I've been averaging between 20-25g carbs/day for the past 24 days and don't have any strength or energy loss. I only feel a little tired for about 10 mins at the end of my work day & that's it. As far as strength mine has went up alot since I started. I was benching 225x4 struggling & now I can hit it for 9.5 easy. Same improvement on all other upper body lifts aswell..
I'm wondering if a carb up is necessary at this point. My body seems to be adapting extremely well.

[BlueRev]

To not carb-up is foolish.

[YesiEvenLiftBro]

the results of no carb up = SKD

if you are not training, or training extremely light, carb up is not necessary but hitting your macros and caloric needs are, all a carb up does is replenish glycogen stores in the body and help raise leptin levels

if you don't train, a carb up would only put a wall of glycogen in your way that would impede weight loss, however if you do train, not doing a carb up can be detrimental, you can't train as hard, and you will be more likely to damage your metabolism and muscle fibre with no carbs

for a standard CKD, you carb up one time a week, before your carb up, do a full body work out that hits everything, the work out should be light with as high volume as you can manage, the goal is the fully deplete muscle glycogen before your carb up to promote super compensation, your carb macros for a carb up are 10-12g carbs per kg of LBM, for the first 24 hours simple carbs are preferred if you require to go passed 24 hours into a 2nd 24 hour period, switch to more complex carbs, avoid fructose as it replenishes liver glycogen, and hit up starchy carbs, your main goal is to get glucose in the muscle fibre, keep the fat intake on a carb up below 88g, get 1.5g carbs per kg lbm right after workout with a 25-50g of protein (personally I like choco milk and a 1-2 scoop whey shake after workout followed by a chit load of potatoes and sweet potatoes for the rest of the feeds all day), 2 hours after the workout get another 1.5g carbs per kg lbm into your body, and every 2 hours passed that for the rest of the feed get 25-50g of carbs until your carb up in complete

1 day of rest especially if you get carb sickness from being in keto, then workout hard for the next 2 days so you can use that glycogen when it's fresh and get some good lifts out of it when it's saturated, then same time same place next week, same thing, low intensity, high volume, fully deplete the stores and carb up again

[Broadcaster]

A ketogenic diet without frequent carb refeeding is adrenal suicide, if practiced over a long period of time. I did a super low carb keto diet for about a year, saw GREAT results at first, and was subsequently diagnosed with adrenal fatigue, chronically high cortisol, etc. When you eat low carb, you are placing a great stress on your body, inducing insulin resistance, etc, and when coupled with high intensity weight lifting and possibly large bouts of cardiovascular exercise, you are placing your adrenal glands under great stress for an indefinite period of time. Your adrenal gland receptors (adrenergic receptors) tend to downregulate, and all those circulating adrenal hormones become increasingly ineffective at doing their job.

Moral of the story, enjoy the foods your body craves on an infrequent basis at least. There is no better food for a high stress physiological environment than carbohydrates.


Carbs are absolutely neccesary not only for building muscle, but for maintaing a balance of your anabolic/catabolic hormones.

[Broadcaster]

By they way, I have fully recovered from my keto-induced adrenal problems and now have a higher metabolic set point and greater leptin sensitivity, while eating twice as many carbs. In fact, I am now weight stable (180lbs at 5'10, 14% body fat) eating 1200 more kkals a day then I was on Keto. My metabolism has upregulated in the absence of chronic stress hormones. That's what happens when you feed your body what it needs. How am I losing weight and eating MORE now?

So I promise you, controlling your weight is not a simple matter of calories in vs calories out. At the end of the day, the "calories out" portion of the equation is subject to an incredible number of changing variables at any given time.