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  1. #1
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    remove excess estrogen from body

    If one has been an alcoholic and has excess estrogen and lowered testosterone apart from mediacation how could one remove the excess estrogen?

    Supplements and diet?

    6-oxo, novodex and reservatol the best ideas?
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  2. #2
    Registered User Loomy's Avatar
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    lol I nearly fell out of my chair when I read this post... I need to participate in it

    have you had yourself tested to see if you have abnormally high levels of estrogen?
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  3. #3
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Loomy View Post
    lol I nearly fell out of my chair when I read this post... I need to participate in it

    have you had yourself tested to see if you have abnormally high levels of estrogen?
    what's so funny about it???

    Nah, I know for fact though as I never ever drank alcohol and then went on 3x3 month holiday binges (within 2 years) were I was drinking at least 2 litres of beer (estrogen) plus spirits per day, and got bad ED plus other estrogen effects..


    ..obviosly test levels dropped too but it is a fact alcohol and beer especially increases estrogen so therefore I need to decrease/remova all this excess estrogen
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  4. #4
    Registered User pewterss's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    If one has been an alcoholic and has excess estrogen and lowered testosterone apart from mediacation how could one remove the excess estrogen?

    Supplements and diet?

    6-oxo, novodex and reservatol the best ideas?
    I would use Novodex XT.
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  5. #5
    sWoLe AllGenetix's Avatar
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    I3C will help remove estrogen metabolites. all others are just AI's that will reduce the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. if you already have a lot, i would throw in I3C as well with an AI
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  6. #6
    Registered User Cable Curling CincoUno's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AllGenetix View Post
    I3C will help remove estrogen metabolites. all others are just AI's that will reduce the conversion of testosterone into estrogen. if you already have a lot, i would throw in I3C as well with an AI
    I3C does kick ass.
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  7. #7
    Team Molecular Nutrition Peter LeDrew's Avatar
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    Question

    Originally Posted by Cable Curling CincoUno View Post
    I3C does kick ass.
    You guys confident this is bioavailable in supplements? I have read some articles questioning this, saying I3C is a pretty unstable compound and easily degraded when put into supplement form.
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  8. #8
    Tao of Iron wild1poet2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cable Curling CincoUno View Post
    I3C does kick ass.

    the following study concerns me about I3C and its DIM product. It indicates that they also function as an anti-androgen or in other words an androgen antagonist.

    http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/23/21136
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  9. #9
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    or eat lots of broccoli and cabbage or juice them each day?
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  10. #10
    Registered User Cable Curling CincoUno's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Peter LeDrew View Post
    You guys confident this is bioavailable in supplements? I have read some articles questioning this, saying I3C is a pretty unstable compound and easily degraded when put into supplement form.
    From what I understand temperature is very important. Matt commented on this previously. The only I3C product I have ever used (NOW) uses glass bottles, I am not sure if this is to help with the above issue. The instability of I3C is usually seen as one of it's strengths. Want to link me to any of the articles? You are probably better read on this than I. All of the articles I have seen regarding degradation and instability stem from people trying to sell DIM.

    Originally Posted by wild1poet2
    the following study concerns me about I3C and its DIM product. It indicates that they also function as an anti-androgen or in other words an androgen antagonist.

    http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/278/23/21136
    Thanks for the link I'm on my way out now so I will read it when I get home later. I would never recommend DIM.
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  11. #11
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    will maca work?

    its meant to normalise and improve all sex hormones
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  12. #12
    It's all about the peaks GBLynden's Avatar
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    Use DIM and also eat large amounts of Broccoli and Cabbage. The rest of those things are not going to do much or be healthy.
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  13. #13
    BulknCut gekkoboy14's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    If one has been an alcoholic and has excess estrogen and lowered testosterone apart from mediacation how could one remove the excess estrogen?

    Supplements and diet?

    6-oxo, novodex and reservatol the best ideas?
    it takes a long time for this to develop
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  14. #14
    Registered User joeysby's Avatar
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    i used to be a real heavy drinker/bad eater, and did no exercise. i know i had higher than average estrogen.


    when i quit drinking and decided to get healthy again, i started taking T-Bomb II. i feel that it worked well in bringing my test levels back to normal again. i dont have blood test to prove this, but i felt alot better and my libido came back a little bit. i havent had to take it again, and im confident that my test levels are now where they should be.
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  15. #15
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gekkoboy14 View Post
    it takes a long time for this to develop
    pretty much 2 years of no exercise, bad, non-existant diet and lots of alcohol, for long periods not eating just drinking...not drank for 4 months and hardons cumming back but dont last long and cant really ejaculate much or much sensation in orgasm...it's fuked up.....no sex drive really, hardly get arousd or find anybody attractive....

    I been taking 6oxo, isatest, novodex, reservatol, activate extreme and eatign and working out in last couple of months and defo some improvement especailly in last couple of weeks, now got maca and mucuna puriens...gonna give another 4-6 weeks and see if can fix before asking doctor...

    will give t-bomb 2 a try as well then...once finished activate extrme and novodex which currently on...
    Last edited by skinnydude; 12-06-2008 at 03:20 PM.
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  16. #16
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GBLynden View Post
    Use DIM and also eat large amounts of Broccoli and Cabbage. The rest of those things are not going to do much or be healthy.
    thoughts on juicing raw cabbage/brocolli?
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    pretty much 2 years of no exercise, bad, non-existant diet and lots of alcohol, for long periods not eating just drinking...not drank for 4 months and hardons cumming back but dont last long and cant really ejaculate much or much sensation in orgasm...it's fuked up.....no sex drive really, hardly get arousd or find anybody attractive....

    I been taking 6oxo, isatest, novodex, reservatol, activate extreme and eatign and working out in last couple of months and defo some improvement especailly in last couple of weeks, now got maca and mucuna puriens...gonna give another 4-6 weeks and see if can fix before asking doctor...

    will give t-bomb 2 a try as well then...once finished activate extrme and novodex which currently on...



    give yourself a few weeks (3-4) off of all the test boosters and anti-Es. it takes time for your body to balance out the hormones again. after 4 weeks with no more test boosters in when i felt normal again (mentally and sexually).

    good luck bro.
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  18. #18
    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joeysby View Post
    give yourself a few weeks (3-4) off of all the test boosters and anti-Es. it takes time for your body to balance out the hormones again. after 4 weeks with no more test boosters in when i felt normal again (mentally and sexually).

    good luck bro.
    cool, suppose it needs to naturally balance itself? 2 weeks worth left and will then give a break...cheers
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  19. #19
    Shut Up And Lift! jaguarr's Avatar
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    Manipulating your hormonal profiles (or attempting to do so, at least) without proper reference bloodwork and regular follow-ups (every 3-6 months) to track your progress is highly ill-advised. Either get with your doctor to get the proper bloodwork done or at least invest in some bloodwork through one of the various mail-order bloodwork services (Google it) to get some understanding of where your levels are at (and to get your cholestorol, thyroid, and liver & kidney functions gauged). Hormones are a funny thing and you run the risk of FUBARing you endocrine system good and proper, possibly permanently, if you don't know what you're doing (and based on the laundry list of crap you are taking all at the same time, you don't; no offense meant by that, just being truthful).

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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    If one has been an alcoholic and has excess estrogen and lowered testosterone apart from mediacation how could one remove the excess estrogen?

    Supplements and diet?

    6-oxo, novodex and reservatol the best ideas?
    I did have borderline pathologically high estrogen levels and borderline pathologically low testostorone levels. After 4 weeks on T-BOL estrogen was lowered by 30% and total test was increased by 30%, and hormonal balance was completely restored. The effects on mood, vitality, energy, focus and libido were tremendous.

    For exact numbers see my log (link in signature).
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    Originally Posted by jaguarr View Post
    Manipulating your hormonal profiles (or attempting to do so, at least) without proper reference bloodwork and regular follow-ups (every 3-6 months) to track your progress is highly ill-advised. Either get with your doctor to get the proper bloodwork done or at least invest in some bloodwork through one of the various mail-order bloodwork services (Google it) to get some understanding of where your levels are at (and to get your cholestorol, thyroid, and liver & kidney functions gauged). Hormones are a funny thing and you run the risk of FUBARing you endocrine system good and proper, possibly permanently, if you don't know what you're doing (and based on the laundry list of crap you are taking all at the same time, you don't; no offense meant by that, just being truthful).
    Yes, in an ideal world, bloodwork would be readily available and readily affordable to anyone who needed it

    Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where patients often have to fight with their doctors in order tests for themselves. Then they have to fight again just to see the results of their own tests. If they don't have insurance, those tests can cost them hundreds of dollars.

    You do realize that every bodybuilding supplement claims to manipulate one's hormonal profile, albeit positively?

    There are physical symptoms which are correllated with underlying metabolic conditions. These symptoms can be used to obtain a general approximation of one's hormonal profile in the absence of testing.

    In a world of limited resources, you've got to get by with what you have.
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    what's so funny about it???

    Nah, I know for fact though as I never ever drank alcohol and then went on 3x3 month holiday binges (within 2 years) were I was drinking at least 2 litres of beer (estrogen) plus spirits per day, and got bad ED plus other estrogen effects..


    ..obviosly test levels dropped too but it is a fact alcohol and beer especially increases estrogen so therefore I need to decrease/remova all this excess estrogen
    Maybe you could stop drinking instead of taking pills to cover side effects which in return could give you new side effects.
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    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    pretty much 2 years of no exercise, bad, non-existant diet and lots of alcohol, for long periods not eating just drinking...not drank for 4 months and hardons cumming back but dont last long and cant really ejaculate much or much sensation in orgasm...it's fuked up.....no sex drive really, hardly get arousd or find anybody attractive....
    ..
    Originally Posted by xspasmx View Post
    Maybe you could stop drinking instead of taking pills to cover side effects which in return could give you new side effects.

    no **** sherlock....maybe you should read posts before needless smartass commenting...strangley I feel my testosterone levels coming back this morning....
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    Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Yes, in an ideal world, bloodwork would be readily available and readily affordable to anyone who needed it

    Unfortunately, we don't live in that world. We live in a world where patients often have to fight with their doctors in order tests for themselves. Then they have to fight again just to see the results of their own tests. If they don't have insurance, those tests can cost them hundreds of dollars.

    You do realize that every bodybuilding supplement claims to manipulate one's hormonal profile, albeit positively?

    There are physical symptoms which are correllated with underlying metabolic conditions. These symptoms can be used to obtain a general approximation of one's hormonal profile in the absence of testing.

    In a world of limited resources, you've got to get by with what you have.
    If you can afford to spend money on bodybuilding supplements like 6oxo, Isatest, Novodex, Reservatol and Activate Extreme, you can afford to get your bloodwork done, which is the ONLY way you will know what is going on with your hormonal panel. Period.

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    Originally Posted by jaguarr View Post
    If you can afford to spend money on bodybuilding supplements like 6oxo, Isatest, Novodex, Reservatol and Activate Extreme, you can afford to get your bloodwork done, which is the ONLY way you will know what is going on with your hormonal panel. Period.

    jag
    END OF DAY though does it matter...I know and will find out low test/high est....so then wot...doc provides some 'artificial' pills...Id ratehr restore my levels through a good diet and exercise and no alcohol..but I been taking these herbs to give a boost and speed the process up...perhaps gone OTT with all the products though....I had huge test levels when only eating a bulk diet and weightlifting 3x per week at 18-20ish?....so hopefully following similar program can get me back to that level.....

    I'd prefer to take supps than hormones from the doc though...but rather nothing at all....just trying to speed up and help things return quicker?
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    END OF DAY though does it matter...I know and will find out low test/high est....so then wot...doc provides some 'artificial' pills...Id ratehr restore my levels through a good diet and exercise and no alcohol..but I been taking these herbs to give a boost and speed the process up...perhaps gone OTT with all the products though....I had huge test levels when only eating a bulk diet and weightlifting 3x per week at 18-20ish?....so hopefully following similar program can get me back to that level.....

    I'd prefer to take supps than hormones from the doc though...but rather nothing at all....just trying to speed up and help things return quicker?
    What if your problem is thyroid related? What if there's a larger issue with your leydig cells that no longer allows them to function properly without some sort of artificial assistance? What if some of the things you are taking cause even more imbalances that damage your endocrine system or your leydig cells and destroys your ability to manufacture your own testosterone (for example, you could cause yourself to go hypogonadal at a very early age)? You will never know if any of those things is going on or worse without bloodwork.

    As someone who went hypogonadal in his mid-thirties and can attest to how trying to solve your own issues with supplements is luck of the draw at best from my own personal experience, I can tell you that you'll never know where you stand without the bloodwork. Just because you get the bloodwork done doesn't mean you have to take whatever prescription the doc may want to put you on. What it does mean is that you'll at least know for certain where your levels are at, verify that your thyroid is not FUBAR (which can cause many of these same symptoms and issues), and maybe get some insight as to WHY these things are going on for you. In my experience, though, all the prohormones and supplements in the world aren't going to fix you if you've got a serious issue going on. In my case, I wound up on HCG for a year and a half while my wife and I tried to get pregnant (which we did, and my son is a happy, healthy six month old, now) and now I'm on HRT doing weekly test cyp injections to keep my test levels at a functional level. It wasn't until I started working with my doc that I got on track and started to feel normal again. None of the supplements and prohormones I tried on my own (much of which you are trying yourself) got me much of anywhere and most of the difference I imagined I felt was largely psychological. Without the bloodwork, you will just never know.

    At any rate, take it for what it's worth: free advice. It's your hormonal profile and if you want to gamble with it, I won't stand in your way. Good luck!

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    Originally Posted by jaguarr View Post
    What if your problem is thyroid related? What if there's a larger issue with your leydig cells that no longer allows them to function properly without some sort of artificial assistance? What if some of the things you are taking cause even more imbalances that damage your endocrine system or your leydig cells and destroys your ability to manufacture your own testosterone (for example, you could cause yourself to go hypogonadal at a very early age)? You will never know if any of those things is going on or worse without bloodwork.

    As someone who went hypogonadal in his mid-thirties and can attest to how trying to solve your own issues with supplements is luck of the draw at best from my own personal experience, I can tell you that you'll never know where you stand without the bloodwork. Just because you get the bloodwork done doesn't mean you have to take whatever prescription the doc may want to put you on. What it does mean is that you'll at least know for certain where your levels are at, verify that your thyroid is not FUBAR (which can cause many of these same symptoms and issues), and maybe get some insight as to WHY these things are going on for you. In my experience, though, all the prohormones and supplements in the world aren't going to fix you if you've got a serious issue going on. In my case, I wound up on HCG for a year and a half while my wife and I tried to get pregnant (which we did, and my son is a happy, healthy six month old, now) and now I'm on HRT doing weekly test cyp injections to keep my test levels at a functional level. It wasn't until I started working with my doc that I got on track and started to feel normal again. None of the supplements and prohormones I tried on my own (much of which you are trying yourself) got me much of anywhere and most of the difference I imagined I felt was largely psychological. Without the bloodwork, you will just never know.

    At any rate, take it for what it's worth: free advice. It's your hormonal profile and if you want to gamble with it, I won't stand in your way. Good luck!

    jag
    well in Uk I get free blood test, I been seeing my doc anyway about my 'mental' state IMO largely due to alcohol psychosis/withdrawal......what should I ask to get tested specifically?

    Also what you should I state:

    for example embarrassing issues i.e. no ejaculation or proper orgasms for over a year, no/little sexual arousal/interest in sex, unable to achieve/maintain full erections....funny/sad thing is this time 2 years ago..I had porn start libido, hardons all day and night, huge loads, intense orgasms etc...unwanted hardons....to this now is a utter joke and severley depressing...


    cheers...

    ps- how did your problem arise..thorugh alcohol problems also?
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    well in Uk I get free blood test, I been seeing my doc anyway about my 'mental' state IMO largely due to alcohol psychosis/withdrawal......what should I ask to get tested specifically?

    Also what you should I state:

    for example embarrassing issues i.e. no ejaculation or proper orgasms for over a year, no/little sexual arousal/interest in sex, unable to achieve/maintain full erections....funny/sad thing is this time 2 years ago..I had porn start libido, hardons all day and night, huge loads, intense orgasms etc...unwanted hardons....to this now is a utter joke and severley depressing...


    cheers...

    ps- how did your problem arise..thorugh alcohol problems also?
    Free bloodwork? Get all over that, man. No reason not to at all! Definitely tell your doc about your sexual disinterest and problems with erections. It's not embarrassing, it's fact and could be a clue about some of the issues you're experiencing. Any depression, fatigue or just feeling "off" that you've been experiencing should be mentioned as well. All should be more than enough to get insurance coverage for the bloodwork and most likely for treatment options (my HRT costs me $5 a month, btw, so it's much more cost effective than supplements anyway). No doubt the alcohol is contributing to some of your problems, but I'm willing to bet there's something more going on with you than just the effects of binge drinking. This is the baseline bloodwork I ask my doc for every six months:

    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    Estrogen Total
    SHBG
    DHEA
    Cholesterol Panel + Triglycerides (Lipid Profile)
    Pituitary Panel - LH, FSH, Prolactin
    Thyroid Panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4)
    Complete Metabolic Panel (Liver, Kidneys, Blood Glucose, Creatinine, BUN, etc.)
    Complete Blood Count
    PSA

    The PSA may not be necessary because you're in your early twenties. It's more of an "old guy" thing. Heh! But those tests as a whole should give you and your doc a good idea of what's going on. I will make the disclaimer here, though, that your doc may not really have much idea what's really happening and how to treat it. The human endocrine system and hormonal profile are pretty specialized and most of the docs that specialize in male fertility or hormone treatment are going to either be endocrinologists or urologists (my guy is a urologist, but he's the best in town; I found him because my General Practitioner knew that it was out of her league and was smart enough to say so). It might pay to ask your doc for a referral if he feels he's over his head on this type of thing, or if you know any nurses ask them to ask around in the medical community about who in your area is the expert on these things.

    As for why I went hypogonadal in my mid-thirties, I don't know. Could be from some sort of testicular trauma when I was younger. My doc said at the time of my diagnosis that he's seeing more and more guys in their mid-thirties have it happen to them, almost at an epidemic level, but he hasn't found any real constants amongst them that might indicate what's causing it.

    Hope this is helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have questions or concerns.

    Cheers,
    jag
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    Registered User skinnydude's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jaguarr View Post
    Free bloodwork? Get all over that, man. No reason not to at all! Definitely tell your doc about your sexual disinterest and problems with erections. It's not embarrassing, it's fact and could be a clue about some of the issues you're experiencing. Any depression, fatigue or just feeling "off" that you've been experiencing should be mentioned as well. All should be more than enough to get insurance coverage for the bloodwork and most likely for treatment options (my HRT costs me $5 a month, btw, so it's much more cost effective than supplements anyway). No doubt the alcohol is contributing to some of your problems, but I'm willing to bet there's something more going on with you than just the effects of binge drinking. This is the baseline bloodwork I ask my doc for every six months:

    Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
    Estrogen Total
    SHBG
    DHEA
    Cholesterol Panel + Triglycerides (Lipid Profile)
    Pituitary Panel - LH, FSH, Prolactin
    Thyroid Panel (TSH, Free T3, Free T4)
    Complete Metabolic Panel (Liver, Kidneys, Blood Glucose, Creatinine, BUN, etc.)
    Complete Blood Count
    PSA

    The PSA may not be necessary because you're in your early twenties. It's more of an "old guy" thing. Heh! But those tests as a whole should give you and your doc a good idea of what's going on. I will make the disclaimer here, though, that your doc may not really have much idea what's really happening and how to treat it. The human endocrine system and hormonal profile are pretty specialized and most of the docs that specialize in male fertility or hormone treatment are going to either be endocrinologists or urologists (my guy is a urologist, but he's the best in town; I found him because my General Practitioner knew that it was out of her league and was smart enough to say so). It might pay to ask your doc for a referral if he feels he's over his head on this type of thing, or if you know any nurses ask them to ask around in the medical community about who in your area is the expert on these things.

    As for why I went hypogonadal in my mid-thirties, I don't know. Could be from some sort of testicular trauma when I was younger. My doc said at the time of my diagnosis that he's seeing more and more guys in their mid-thirties have it happen to them, almost at an epidemic level, but he hasn't found any real constants amongst them that might indicate what's causing it.

    Hope this is helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have questions or concerns.

    Cheers,
    jag
    thanks for that man, got an appointment next week so will bring it up with him then....Also how long should I stop taking supp/herbs for to get a proper reading...will 4 weeks be enough to get out my system? should I stop doing heavy weights too until after 1st tests?

    Out of interest when you went hypogon...were u BBing and dieting i.e. before you started Bodybuilding?....surely if you workout and eat health chances of this happening are low


    Also, before becoming an alcy..I had quit BB due to hair loss/acne tetsosterone problems ironically and embarked on all these crazy health fad diets no carb, low calorie, fruit only, caveman diet to stop my hair loss thiese also affected my libido and energy and mood then on top of that I became an alcy....so I done a lot of weird **** to my body in last few years...in past 4 months I've been trying to repeat the diet and workouts which gave me huge libido when younger (minus all the glucose and sugar)....
    Last edited by skinnydude; 12-08-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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    Originally Posted by skinnydude View Post
    thanks for that man, got an appointment next week so will bring it up with him then....Also how long should I stop taking supp/herbs for to get a proper reading...will 4 weeks be enough to get out my system? should I stop doing heavy weights too until after 1st tests?

    Out of interest when you went hypogon...were u BBing and dieting i.e. before you started Bodybuilding?....surely if you workout and eat health chances of this happening are low


    Also, before becoming an alcy..I had quit BB due to hair loss/acne tetsosterone problems ironically and embarked on all these crazy health fad diets no carb, low calorie, fruit only, caveman diet to stop my hair loss thiese also affected my libido and energy and mood then on top of that I became an alcy....so I done a lot of weird **** to my body in last few years...in past 4 months I've been trying to repeat the diet and workouts which gave me huge libido when younger (minus all the glucose and sugar)....
    It would probably be a good idea to go off the supps before your bloodwork. Make sure you tell them what you were taking and how long you've been off the stuff (four weeks time may not be enough to get it all out of your system). No need to stop lifting and working out, though. And, yes, I was BB'ing and eating properly when I went hypogonadal.

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