Cardio and Keto

[obesebeast]

So I've been trying to page through the numerous threads on keto and I can't get a clear answer on what to eat after you do your LISS or HIIT cardio while on Keto. Currently I eat nothing after I'm done. I'll do roughly 90min of lifting, eat my PWO meal(usually 2x shakes) then perform some LISS(40+min) or HIIT(15-20min) and then eat nothing til about 90min later when I'll eat my regular keto diet(usually shake+1/3 cup nuts)

should we be eating any type of glycogen after our cardio sessions? I've only been on keto for a week now and have dropped 7lbs so far. I stay very well hydrated and am off creatine while on keto. I'm just worried about doing damage to myself if I'm exercising as hard as I do and then not replenishing myself thoroughly. I'm on a 6 day split and will perform cardio all 6 of those days.

My split is 5x5 of 6 diff exercises with 5x20 x2 exercises for abs every 6 days...rest on saturday
Sun: Legs
Mon: Bis
Tues: Chest
Weds: Shoulders
Thurs: Back
Fri: Tris

Would I see more gains/weight loss if I toned down the cardio and moved to a 4 day split? I've read a few places you will want to start the week off slow as you burn through your carb storage from the weekend loading then lift hard at the end of the week to deplete yourself while you're in the perfect window for ketone release.

ex:
Sun: Rest
Mon: Bis/Tris
Tues: Shoulders
Weds: Legs
Thurs: Chest
Fri: Back
Sat: Carb Load/Rest

Any help is appreciated..thanks

[signature166]

So I've been trying to page through the numerous threads on keto and I can't get a clear answer on what to eat after you do your LISS or HIIT cardio while on Keto. Currently I eat nothing after I'm done. I'll do roughly 90min of lifting, eat my PWO meal(usually 2x shakes) then perform some LISS(40+min) or HIIT(15-20min) and then eat nothing til about 90min later when I'll eat my regular keto diet(usually shake+1/3 cup nuts)

should we be eating any type of glycogen after our cardio sessions? I've only been on keto for a week now and have dropped 7lbs so far. I stay very well hydrated and am off creatine while on keto. I'm just worried about doing damage to myself if I'm exercising as hard as I do and then not replenishing myself thoroughly. I'm on a 6 day split and will perform cardio all 6 of those days.

My split is 5x5 of 6 diff exercises with 5x20 x2 exercises for abs every 6 days...rest on saturday
Sun: Legs
Mon: Bis
Tues: Chest
Weds: Shoulders
Thurs: Back
Fri: Tris

Would I see more gains/weight loss if I toned down the cardio and moved to a 4 day split? I've read a few places you will want to start the week off slow as you burn through your carb storage from the weekend loading then lift hard at the end of the week to deplete yourself while you're in the perfect window for ketone release.

ex:
Sun: Rest
Mon: Bis/Tris
Tues: Shoulders
Weds: Legs
Thurs: Chest
Fri: Back
Sat: Carb Load/Rest

Any help is appreciated..thanks

Is your goal fat loss?
Assuming your goal is losing fat while preserving muscle mass your current program is inefficient at best.
You are doing a bodybuilding-style split that emphasizes volume and recovery time, right? Its for people who already have a solid foundation of muscle.
All of that cardio causes your body to become more efficient at conserving energy, you want to use as much energy (body fat) as possible per workout and in the 48 hours follwing the workout. I see that you are doing HIIT, thats good. What kind of LISS are you doing?

For the purpose of fat burning I would want to see more full-body compound movements that target large muscle groups and use anaerobic energy pathways. Do 20-rep sets of squats, as well as chins, deadlifts, dips, cleans, push presses, etc. You want to create as much EPOC as possible, and stimulate lactate production and gh production. Use rest intervals such that you can keep up the intensity of your sets, but so you are breathing like a locomotive the whole time. At worst this will be a shock to your system.
As it is, you are doing glycogen-depleting cardio without carbs, right? Six days a week?
Are you doing a CKD or a TKD?

I would suggest heavy compound supersets of antagonstic muscle pairings with short rest intervals (per your tolerance), some 40-60m sprints, and some slow cardio at a steep incline on the treadmill after the heavy compounds.

[Atavis]

For the purpose of fat burning I would want to see more full-body compound movements that target large muscle groups and use anaerobic energy pathways. Do 20-rep sets of squats, as well as chins, deadlifts, dips, cleans, push presses, etc. You want to create as much EPOC as possible, and stimulate lactate production and gh production. Use rest intervals such that you can keep up the intensity of your sets, but so you are breathing like a locomotive the whole time.

...

I would suggest heavy compound supersets of antagonstic muscle pairings with short rest intervals (per your tolerance), some 40-60m sprints, and some slow cardio at a steep incline on the treadmill after the heavy compounds.

THIS! THIS RIGHT HERE!

After you figure that out you can add in some LISS if you feel like it and can recover from it.

[obesebeast]

as of now I'm trying a CKD plan diet wise which is why i'm concerned with depleting too far while doing HIIT

my HIIT sessions will be twice a week @ 25min/session(5min warmup, 15min HIIT(1min sprint(180 BPM), 1min jog(130 BPM), 1min walk(110 BPM))

my LISS sessions are pretty much every other day and usually 40-60min depending on how much time I've got personally. I like to use the machines for LISS since they've got nice TVs at the gym and I'll switch machines every 10 minutes to help pass the time. I've been keeping my HR under 120 BPM during these LISS sessions too.

Buring my brief bulk, I was lifting with a 5x15 plan...rested 60-90 seconds between sets and 180-240 seconds between exercises. Now on 5x5 I'm resting 60 seconds between sets and 120-180 seconds between exercises. I'm also increasing weight 5-10lbs per set on 5x5 and didn't increase weight at all during the 5x15 routine.

My main goal now is fat loss, I've got some problem areas I'd like to trim so yea. I was nearly 300lbs and only recently have I dipped below 200. I'd like to get into the 180s by early 2009 and then bulk up for 3 months just to cut before the summer hits. I do feel I have a good muscle foundation so I guess I should swap from a split and go more towards a full body/major muscle group attack.

On a CKD, should I start off slow while I'm entering the depletion then annihilate myself before the weekend carbup?
ex:
Mon: Full Body
Tues: Full Body
Weds: Rest
Thurs: Legs
Fri: Chest
Sat: Back / Begin carbup
Sun: Rest / carbup

I wish I could do more complex lifts on the max racks at the gym. I've had a pinched L5S1 nerve in my lower back from a squatting accident nearly 7yrs ago in high school. So I've got to be extremely cautious with my lifts. I've re-aggravated the injury a few times with preacher curls and BB curls, so I stay away from those and will just do DB Conc curls or alternating DB curls instead. I'm slowly doing squats, DLs, SLDLs, and Rack Pulls but I'm still nervous every time I enter the cage. I'd love to be able to do some cleans eventually.

If I'm going to start doing reps of 20, how many sets should I be going for? On my first week of Keto, I'm feeling extremely weak compared to how I felt on the bulk and I'm only doing 5x5(but increasing the weight). Before the Keto, I was doing 5x15x185 on the squats, should I be going for 185x20 on keto? or should I go down 10-20% or what my maintenance was? How many exercises per body part should I be performing? For example, on chest I do:
DB or BB Flat Bench
DB Flat Flies
DB or BB Incline Bench
DB Incline Flies
DB or BB Decline Bench
Cable Flies or Decline DB Flies
Dips(Weighted in 5x5)

is this too much volume for a fat burning diet? I allot 90 min for the exercises I perform so time is usually not an issue. I'm also doing abs every exercise to wrap it up. My ab exercises are always weighted Decline Crunches and Hanging Leg Raises(working my way to pikes) 5x20 sets only.

also, when counting carbs on keto, should I be counting the carbs but then subtracting the fiber(since we can't actually use the fiber)? I don't see how some guys can sit at <30g/day carbs. Each ON shake I consume is 4g, I'm eating at least 4 shakes/day as well as each 1oz serving of nuts is ~6g carbs. 1oz Cheese is another 1g carbs. I need to keep most of my food portable as I'm in school full time and work out at the school's gym, so I can't just workout and immediately have bacon and eggs or some chicken and olive oil ready to roll.

[signature166]

as of now I'm trying a CKD plan diet wise which is why i'm concerned with depleting too far while doing HIIT

my HIIT sessions will be twice a week @ 25min/session(5min warmup, 15min HIIT(1min sprint(180 BPM), 1min jog(130 BPM), 1min walk(110 BPM))

my LISS sessions are pretty much every other day and usually 40-60min depending on how much time I've got personally. I like to use the machines for LISS since they've got nice TVs at the gym and I'll switch machines every 10 minutes to help pass the time. I've been keeping my HR under 120 BPM during these LISS sessions too.

Buring my brief bulk, I was lifting with a 5x15 plan...rested 60-90 seconds between sets and 180-240 seconds between exercises. Now on 5x5 I'm resting 60 seconds between sets and 120-180 seconds between exercises. I'm also increasing weight 5-10lbs per set on 5x5 and didn't increase weight at all during the 5x15 routine.

My main goal now is fat loss, I've got some problem areas I'd like to trim so yea. I was nearly 300lbs and only recently have I dipped below 200. I'd like to get into the 180s by early 2009 and then bulk up for 3 months just to cut before the summer hits. I do feel I have a good muscle foundation so I guess I should swap from a split and go more towards a full body/major muscle group attack.

On a CKD, should I start off slow while I'm entering the depletion then annihilate myself before the weekend carbup?
ex:
Mon: Full Body
Tues: Full Body
Weds: Rest
Thurs: Legs
Fri: Chest
Sat: Back / Begin carbup
Sun: Rest / carbup

I wish I could do more complex lifts on the max racks at the gym. I've had a pinched L5S1 nerve in my lower back from a squatting accident nearly 7yrs ago in high school. So I've got to be extremely cautious with my lifts. I've re-aggravated the injury a few times with preacher curls and BB curls, so I stay away from those and will just do DB Conc curls or alternating DB curls instead. I'm slowly doing squats, DLs, SLDLs, and Rack Pulls but I'm still nervous every time I enter the cage. I'd love to be able to do some cleans eventually.

If I'm going to start doing reps of 20, how many sets should I be going for? On my first week of Keto, I'm feeling extremely weak compared to how I felt on the bulk and I'm only doing 5x5(but increasing the weight). Before the Keto, I was doing 5x15x185 on the squats, should I be going for 185x20 on keto? or should I go down 10-20% or what my maintenance was? How many exercises per body part should I be performing? For example, on chest I do:
DB or BB Flat Bench
DB Flat Flies
DB or BB Incline Bench
DB Incline Flies
DB or BB Decline Bench
Cable Flies or Decline DB Flies
Dips(Weighted in 5x5)

is this too much volume for a fat burning diet? I allot 90 min for the exercises I perform so time is usually not an issue. I'm also doing abs every exercise to wrap it up. My ab exercises are always weighted Decline Crunches and Hanging Leg Raises(working my way to pikes) 5x20 sets only.

also, when counting carbs on keto, should I be counting the carbs but then subtracting the fiber(since we can't actually use the fiber)? I don't see how some guys can sit at <30g/day carbs. Each ON shake I consume is 4g, I'm eating at least 4 shakes/day as well as each 1oz serving of nuts is ~6g carbs. 1oz Cheese is another 1g carbs. I need to keep most of my food portable as I'm in school full time and work out at the school's gym, so I can't just workout and immediately have bacon and eggs or some chicken and olive oil ready to roll.

First, Congratulations on all of the weight you have lost so far, it must have been a battle.

In no particular order:

Supersets
or
Complexes (a series of movements that flow into each other to make a set, its a combination of compound exercises done one after the other).
Its good to know about injuries ahead of time.
90 mins is alot of time to spend in the gym.
The 20-rep squats were just an example of a way to stimulate alot of lactate. Its basically 20 single-rep sets with 10 secs in between to breathe. One big set. For the other compounds you can choose 5X5 if that works for you, just keep up the density. (work done per time)

Too much pressing, too much flying. Those are "isolation" (the flys) exercises and you want to stick to mostly "compound exercises."
Why do you have leg, chest, and back days. I would suggest full-body training or a push-pull split. I would think you would need more recovery time than you have allotted if you are really pushing yourself when you are in the gym.
You should try to vary your ab exercises (injury permitting) so that you are working flexion of the trunk towards the knees from the top and bottom (such as crunches and leg raises), working the obliques, and working the total torso in its role as a stabilizer to prevent movement around the spine (twisting). Look up the Pallof press. Add some planks and oblique planks. Look up Renegade rows, t-stablization push-ups, lunges while holding a dumbell overhead, unilateral leg work like single-leg squats and bulgarian split squats.

You need to get your food together. I have one word for you: Tupperware. Make all your meals for the next day the night before, or that morning, or most efficient of all--do all of the cooking-required preparation on Sunday and you will have meals ready-to-assemble for the week. Do you have access to a fridge or a microwave oven? Do you own a cooler and some ice packs? I take my **** with me to school too. Use shakes as a meal replacement once a day if you can. You want the micronutrients and stuff that comes from whole food.

Do what you can do injury permitting.