Feedback on my Clean and Press

[Rane14]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=W5RArr1bYS8 I have never done these on a consistant basis, thought I'd try them out. If I was doing a body part spilt what day would it be best to put these in?

[Choktu]

You are not jumping the weight up. You just curl it to your shoulders. You are also letting yor elbows be low in the rack position. Here is my best instructions on cleans

1. Squat down behind the bar with your feet flat on the floor.
2. Grasp the bar with an overhand grip, slightly wider than shoulder width.
3. Arch your lower back, keeping your thighs slightly above paralell
4. keep the bar directly under your shoulder blades (your arms will be angled back tword your body. Contract your lats to keep them in this position
5. Begin the pull by extending the knees substantially and the hips slightly. This puts you in a positionwith the bar just above the knees, the knees slightly bent and the bar on the thighs.
6. In this position, you should attempt to feel your hamstrings stretch and activate.
7. From this position, explosively extend your knees and hips
8. as your hips reach full extention, shrug your shoulders hard and jump with your calves
9. As you jump, think about stomping your feet into the ground.

-If you are doing a full clean
10. As you land, pull yourself under the bar with your arms while actively squatting down.
11. Keep your chest close to the bar.
12. Swing your elbows up as quickly as possible, allowing the bar to settle across the anterior deltoid.
13. As you land, widen your stance slightly into an effective squat stance.
when you stop, you should be at the bottom of a full front squat.
14. Stand up

-If you are doing a power clean
10. Stomp your feet hard into the ground in your same stance.
11. Squat slightly.
12. Allow the bar to pass up the chest, do not pull with the arms, The weight should be light enough that it goes high enough to rack without squatting too much.
13. keep the bar close to the chest.
14. Swing your elbows up as quickly as possible, allowing the bar to settle across the anterior deltoid.

It's a lot to think about at once, but it does become natural eventually.

I hope that helps

-cheers!

[Germanic]

Cool, a hockey player!

Power clean should come from the legs and lower back. Your upper body just guides it onto your shoulders.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UlFZ-nWXxy0

[Rane14]

Thx for the advice, I am gonna post a video I took yesterday with 65 pounds and I'll try another one today as well.

[JFraser1]

One other thing when it comes to this exercise...If you don't use enough weight it's almost impossible to execute proper form. This is supposed to be an EXPLOSIVE exercise. It needs to be heavy enough so that you have to EXPLODE up with the weights. You were doing it in extremely slow motion which means that you can handle WAY more weights then that. In my opinion, it's impossible to critique someones clean and jag if they're not using an adequate amount of weight given their present strength, which you were not. Try adding more weight until you feel that need for EXPLOSION, post that video on Youtube, and then have us critique it...

[Ibanez]

Originally Posted by smj5351

Cool, a hockey player!

Power clean should come from the legs and lower back. Your upper body just guides it onto your shoulders.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UlFZ-nWXxy0

I'm sure the video had good intentions, but watching that will not help someone new to the powerclean.

If you do a new video use a better angle, meaning if you are in the center of a clock a 10-11 clock would better.

[Rane14]

heres a video i took b4 the 95 pound video. http://youtube.com/watch?v=zaNVjgVy924

[Carmen0857]

Your elbows should be pointg straigth in front of you, not at the floor, your going to destroy your wrist when you start moving up in weight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-bZq...elated&search=

Check out this vid, it's a C&J, and its a miss, but the clean is pretty good, and it shows it in slow motion.

[Germanic]

Originally Posted by Ibanez

I'm sure the video had good intentions, but watching that will not help someone new to the powerclean.

If you do a new video use a better angle, meaning if you are in the center of a clock a 10-11 clock would better.

Well then why don't you either provide a better video or give him some pointers? Your sig makes you look like you know a lot about olympic weightlifting. You are probably more qualified to give help than me, then.

[AHTTG]

Will people please stop posting vids with almost no weight on the bar and saying "need feedback on form".

EVERYONE has good form with light weights. Either post a weight you use to *really* workout, or don't post anything at all.

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

Will people please stop posting vids with almost no weight on the bar and saying "need feedback on form".

EVERYONE has good form with light weights. Either post a weight you use to *really* workout, or don't post anything at all.

so you think my form is good? while others have said that it isn't.

[AHTTG]

Originally Posted by Rane14

so you think my form is good? while others have said that it isn't.

people in general. Not just you.

Find a coach if you really want to learn how to do it. Oly lifts arent' easy to learn.

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

people in general. Not just you.

Find a coach if you really want to learn how to do it. Oly lifts arent' easy to learn.

**** i think iam out of luck, theres no Oly coaches around here where I live.

[AHTTG]

Originally Posted by Rane14

**** i think iam out of luck, theres no Oly coaches around here where I live.

Lucky for you they don't play a big role in bbing. If you decide to do them for a sport, I'm sure your coach will know the basics.

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

Lucky for you they don't play a big role in bbing. If you decide to do them for a sport, I'm sure your coach will know the basics.

My hockey coach probably doesn't have a clue haha.

[Rane14]

I have the motivation to learn them so I can get better at hockey but if I really need a coach for them....well that sucks

[AHTTG]

Originally Posted by Rane14

I have the motivation to learn them so I can get better at hockey but if I really need a coach for them....well that sucks

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=916420

ask him

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by AHTTG

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=916420

ask him

alright thx, I'd just rather try working out to improve my hockey game at this time and I need to learn some Oly lifts. well thanks for your help.

[J.L.C.]

They are a tough lift to learn to do correctly.

I disagree with the 'you need heavy weights' argument. I learned cleans and snatches with an empty bar. Some lifters begin with a dowel or broomstick.

You simply cannot learn them overnight. Some coaches have said that it takes approximately 1000 reps before the form starts to come together.

I started by doing powercleans with an empty bar as a warmup for my regular workouts.

Jumping into heavy weights will likely just lead to pulling with your arms and ingraining incorrect motor patterns.

I recently got Arthr Dreschsler's book "The Weightlifting Encyclopedia" it's awesome! Breaks the clean and the snatch into 6 stages.....

If you don't break the bar from the floor correctly, the rest of the lift will go bad on you - quickly.

First things first, those plate have the bar WAY too low, you need to start at the correct height, either off of some blocks, or try em from the hang (just above knee). You are ripping the bar off the floor, it should be relatively slow until it clears the knees, then it should be sliding up the thighs - when you scratch up your thighs with the knurling on the bar, you're doing em right.

At the start of the 1st pull, or at least before the 2nd pull (explosion) your shoulder HAVE to be in front of the bar, this will prevent you from 'kicking it out'. It IS NOT a reverse curl, the arms simply connect your body to the bar, you don't pull with them at all.

If you don't have the flexibility in your forearms and wrists yet, try front squatting with a clean grip and doing lots of stretches - you can't clean if you can't rack the bar.

If you want to learn the lifts while you are developing the flexibility, snatches or power snatches would be the way to go. Dan John adamantly believes that if you can snatch, you can clean. The lifts are very similar, especially the power versions.

I'm avoiding the power versions at the moment because for me, they mess up the timing for the full lifts. But here's a vid of a recent clean from a fairly good angle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVpu_U8L1eo

The bar goes up from the hips, hams, quads, and low back firing in unison - NO ARMS.

[Rane14]

thx very much JLC.

[Rane14]

half of a power clean- http://youtube.com/watch?v=DDzbNA5As2Y

Oly front squat- http://youtube.com/watch?v=wGEa5LMyz7w

clean pull- http://youtube.com/watch?v=yg5laJO_Fuo

well comments are welcome, I am struggling with oly lifts but I wanna learn them.

[J.L.C.]

The clean looks MUCH better!

Keep stretching those wrists and forearms and it'll be easier to catch the bar without it hurting.

It looks like you're still pulling a bit with the arms, it's tough with youtube vids, but with my pause skillz, I was able to stop it at a point that looked like an upright row......

The key is using the explosion/extension of your body to get that bar up, not the arms. You want to hit a point of 'triple extension' at the peak of your pull: ankles, knees, and hips all fully extended. As soon as you hit that, whip your elbows under the bar and rack it on your shoulders.

Getting the elbows under is VERY difficult if you use the arms to pull the bar up.

I find that internally rotating my arms, locking the elbows, and retracting the shoulder blades before the pull is very, VERY helpful - along with concentrating on straight arms.

It's hard to tell with the camera angle, but I think you need to extend more on those clean pulls. I don't have any vids of my clean pulls, but Here's a Vid of snatch pulls - same thing, just with a wider grip.

Front squats are looking solid. Just be aware of the differences in oly squatting and the powerlifting squats. With oly squats you want to sit between your hips, with your back as close to vertical as possible - and pop up and down like a piston.

Dan John's vid is really good, a little long, but worth watching:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744

[Rane14]

thx again JLC, so should I be hard at work everyday trying to get the form down? Thats what i feel like doing but I don't know if that would be the optimal way to learn the lifts.

[J.L.C.]

Originally Posted by Rane14

thx again JLC, so should I be hard at work everyday trying to get the form down? Thats what i feel like doing but I don't know if that would be the optimal way to learn the lifts.

That's how I started, and why I recommend keeping the weights light.

I still warmup with an empty bar for 10-15 minutes before I put anything on it.

Practice makes perfect.

Take your time, pull a few reps - rest, repeat. You can't do this stuff properly when you're fatigued. You've got more than enough power in your hips and back to do them well, and you're taking vids - you'll get there soon!

Here's the snatch-pull vid I forgot to link last post.

[Carmen0857]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

The clean looks MUCH better!

Keep stretching those wrists and forearms and it'll be easier to catch the bar without it hurting.

It looks like you're still pulling a bit with the arms, it's tough with youtube vids, but with my pause skillz, I was able to stop it at a point that looked like an upright row......

The key is using the explosion/extension of your body to get that bar up, not the arms. You want to hit a point of 'triple extension' at the peak of your pull: ankles, knees, and hips all fully extended. As soon as you hit that, whip your elbows under the bar and rack it on your shoulders.

Getting the elbows under is VERY difficult if you use the arms to pull the bar up.

I find that internally rotating my arms, locking the elbows, and retracting the shoulder blades before the pull is very, VERY helpful - along with concentrating on straight arms.

It's hard to tell with the camera angle, but I think you need to extend more on those clean pulls. I don't have any vids of my clean pulls, but Here's a Vid of snatch pulls - same thing, just with a wider grip.

Front squats are looking solid. Just be aware of the differences in oly squatting and the powerlifting squats. With oly squats you want to sit between your hips, with your back as close to vertical as possible - and pop up and down like a piston.

Dan John's vid is really good, a little long, but worth watching:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744

Very good advice here, when I teach cleans to clients I tell them to think of their arms as ropes tied to the bar, you cant use them to pull, you have to use your body(legs, traps, etc.) to get the weight up, then drop under and catch it.

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

That's how I started, and why I recommend keeping the weights light.

I still warmup with an empty bar for 10-15 minutes before I put anything on it.

Practice makes perfect.

Take your time, pull a few reps - rest, repeat. You can't do this stuff properly when you're fatigued. You've got more than enough power in your hips and back to do them well, and you're taking vids - you'll get there soon!

Here's the snatch-pull vid I forgot to link last post.

alright, thx JLC, I am going to put some new videos up later today

[Ibanez]

thx again JLC, so should I be hard at work everyday trying to get the form down? Thats what i feel like doing but I don't know if that would be the optimal way to learn the lifts.

There several schools of thought on the way to learn them, but I think that most do good working from the top down in a sense. If you are going to learn the full lifts, it would beneficial to first work on developing the flexibility necessary to drop into the front squat and the overhead squat. After you have them down to a sufficient level then you can work from the hang and practice going into the front/overhead squat depending on which you want to learn. After you have that phase down you can work on the first pull. The first pull is a little tricky for some because you are actually moving your legs backwards, if that makes sense. The legs go back and then shift underneath as the bar moves up, aka double knee bend. I know some try to actually teach the double knee bend (DKB), but the DKB is actually something that happens naturally and in my opinion people shouldn't teach lifters to shift their knees underneath.

Regardless which way you learn it you should continue to take videos, analyze what you are doing and figure out how to correct this.

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by Ibanez

There several schools of thought on the way to learn them, but I think that most do good working from the top down in a sense. If you are going to learn the full lifts, it would beneficial to first work on developing the flexibility necessary to drop into the front squat and the overhead squat. After you have them down to a sufficient level then you can work from the hang and practice going into the front/overhead squat depending on which you want to learn. After you have that phase down you can work on the first pull. The first pull is a little tricky for some because you are actually moving your legs backwards, if that makes sense. The legs go back and then shift underneath as the bar moves up, aka double knee bend. I know some try to actually teach the double knee bend (DKB), but the DKB is actually something that happens naturally and in my opinion people shouldn't teach lifters to shift their knees underneath.

Regardless which way you learn it you should continue to take videos, analyze what you are doing and figure out how to correct this.

thx, well I wanna learn the lifts that wil transfer over to hockey and that sounds like most of the lifts. anyway I got more videos from today.

clean and front squat- http://youtube.com/watch?v=yzf_9PdBocQ

clean pull- http://youtube.com/watch?v=XTLowYCP_z0

[Germanic]

Originally Posted by Rane14

thx, well I wanna learn the lifts that wil transfer over to hockey and that sounds like most of the lifts. anyway I got more videos from today.

clean and front squat- http://youtube.com/watch?v=yzf_9PdBocQ

clean pull- http://youtube.com/watch?v=XTLowYCP_z0

Do you play for your school, or for juniors?

[Rane14]

Originally Posted by smj5351

Do you play for your school, or for juniors?

Midget A. I've played Triple A Selects when I was 15 and are team played against teams that practically had all their players drafted into the WHL. I'll be playing Junior next year, thats my goal anyway.