opinions needed.(changing workout)

[plmb1]

I have been using workout #1 for only four weeks now but I am having problems with recovery time. I am considering doing workout #2. I know everyone is different but just in general, what do you folks think?

#1

day one: chest, shoulder, tri
day two: quads, hams, calves
day three: back, traps, biceps
day four: off
day five: start over

#2

sat: chest, tri
sun: quads, hams, calves
mon: off
tue: shoulders, traps
wed: off
thur: back, biceps
fri: off
sat:start over

[ironwill2008]

You're the only one who is an expert on you. It's your call as to whether or not you're able to recover. The determining factor will always be progression; are you adding weight and/or reps every workout? If not, something is not right.

IMO, it's always better to go with more rest, as opposed to more work, for natural trainees.

[dungeonmistress]

how about this: it's a three day a week routine but you get more rest time in between and here's how it goes, lemme know what you think:

you will train let's say mon, wed, and fri. you will break your body in half (no not literally, i mean bodyparts lol). let's call them workout 1 and workout 2. so, week one you'd do workout 1 on monday, workout 2 on wed and workout 3 on friday. then week two you'd do workout 2 monday, workout 1 wed and workout 2 on friday. week 3 you'd do like the first week, week 4 like the second week etc.

when i powerlifted i'd work out 4 days a week (mon tue, thur, fri). the first part of the week i'd lift heavy, the second part lighter for reps to avoid burnout and to keep making progress. it worked well too. so the workouts that you do twice in a week, you could do heavy the first part and the second time you could do it lighter. just saying. you know, for variety.

[plmb1]

how about this: it's a three day a week routine but you get more rest time in between and here's how it goes, lemme know what you think:

you will train let's say mon, wed, and fri. you will break your body in half (no not literally, i mean bodyparts lol). let's call them workout 1 and workout 2. so, week one you'd do workout 1 on monday, workout 2 on wed and workout 3 on friday. then week two you'd do workout 2 monday, workout 1 wed and workout 2 on friday. week 3 you'd do like the first week, week 4 like the second week etc.

when i powerlifted i'd work out 4 days a week (mon tue, thur, fri). the first part of the week i'd lift heavy, the second part lighter for reps to avoid burnout and to keep making progress. it worked well too. so the workouts that you do twice in a week, you could do heavy the first part and the second time you could do it lighter. just saying. you know, for variety.

It would be hard for me to workout only three days a week because I don't like to train over 45 min or so at a time. I have a hard time training more than two muscle groups in 45 min. I also train after about 10 hours of construction work and I'm sure that plays a big part in not being able to train more than two muscles at a time not to mention making it harder to recover. I usually rest no more than 30 seconds to 1 min between sets on light and heavy days. I try to keep it short and intense. I usually cycle my heavy/light workouts. Heavy for 5 or 6 weeks, then light for about 3 or 4 weeks ect... I do like the idea of training heavy and light in the same week though. I think I will try that when I change my workout again. Right now I'm training on tue, thur, sat and sun training two bodyparts each workout. I know everyone is different but how many days a week and how many bodyparts each day do you think most natural BBers train? Just wondering because I really don't know any natural BBers in my area that I know of. I really don't listen to anyone that uses "the "S" word"........lol because their recovery and other stuff is so much better due to the drugs and I don't think I can use their advice because I'm not on the stuff that they are on......what do you think about that?

BTW........I liked the breaking the body in half thing.......LOL.

[plmb1]

You're the only one who is an expert on you. It's your call as to whether or not you're able to recover. The determining factor will always be progression; are you adding weight and/or reps every workout? If not, something is not right.

IMO, it's always better to go with more rest, as opposed to more work, for natural trainees.

I don't move up in weight or reps very often. I usually add 2.5 to 5 lbs to my squats, deads and bench movements every three or four weeks. I could go up a little faster but when I do my form suffers. I have had shoulder surgery in the past due to having bad form on the flat bench and do not want to hurt it again because the last time I hurt my shoulder I did not workout again for almost 10 years. I really don't want to go through that again. I love training. I don't want to have to stop. As far as rest, I think I do better training four days a week while training two muscles each workout. I do like training chest/shoulders/tri ........quads/hams/calves........back/traps/biceps but when I train those muscles together it does not take long before I feel overtrained.....usually after about two weeks. I understand that nobody can tell you for sure what you should or should not do. Especially, if they have never seen you or don't know you at all. I was just wondering what other people thought on the subject. Thanks for the reply. Have a good day.

[amoreno]

#2

sat: chest, tri
sun: quads, hams, calves
mon: off
tue: shoulders, traps
wed: off
thur: back, biceps
fri: off
sat:start over

#2 is similar to my schedule, except that I do a chest/bi, back/tri split. When I did a chest/tri, back/bi split, my arms always felt pretty gassed by the time I got to the tri and bi lifts. With a chest/bi, back/tri split, I can bang away on chest and back as hard as I want and my bis and tris are still fresh when I get to them.

[plmb1]

#2 is similar to my schedule, except that I do a chest/bi, back/tri split. When I did a chest/tri, back/bi split, my arms always felt pretty gassed by the time I got to the tri and bi lifts. With a chest/bi, back/tri split, I can bang away on chest and back as hard as I want and my bis and tris are still fresh when I get to them.

I have never tried that........I will try it sometimes and see how it affects me..........Thanks.

[Fifty+]

I don't move up in weight or reps very often. I usually add 2.5 to 5 lbs to my squats, deads and bench movements every three or four weeks. I could go up a little faster but when I do my form suffers. I have had shoulder surgery in the past due to having bad form on the flat bench and do not want to hurt it again because the last time I hurt my shoulder I did not workout again for almost 10 years. I really don't want to go through that again. I love training. I don't want to have to stop. As far as rest, I think I do better training four days a week while training two muscles each workout. I do like training chest/shoulders/tri ........quads/hams/calves........back/traps/biceps but when I train those muscles together it does not take long before I feel overtrained.....usually after about two weeks. I understand that nobody can tell you for sure what you should or should not do. Especially, if they have never seen you or don't know you at all. I was just wondering what other people thought on the subject. Thanks for the reply. Have a good day.

Some of the variables are missing. How many exercises do you perform per body part? Explain your warm up sets. Do you pyramid sets or use one weight for all sets? What rep range do you work in? And, what exactly is your goal?

If you don't increase weight or increase reps per set very often, how do you challanger yourself? What do you mean by "feeling" overtrained? At the end of my three days in the gym I'm dead. Fatigued to the max. And loving every moment of it. If you're working hard to add some muscle mass you should feel spent at the end of the week. If I didn't I'd start to wonder about the time I'm spending in the gym. I know a lot of people advocate less rest time in between sets. As I get older I find the time between sets very important. I like to lift heavy (relative to me), in the 6-8 rep zone. I go to failure on every set. I take 3 minutes on all larger muscle groups and 2 minutes on the smaller ones. I find the quality of the set is better. Regarding your dilema with routines. Sounds like the problems stems from what you'd like to do and what you think you should do?? Using a heavy duty approach you could certainly work your chest, shoulders and tris in 45 minutes. That might present a problem though. You'd be extremely fatigued and mulitplying that x 3 seperste workouts, your back to your original question (problem). So maybe you might try reducing total workloads, review your nutrition plan and find time to rest more. Even if it's 15-20 minutes during the day to relax and forget the world. You have a tough job and bodybuilding on top makes life very "fatigued" . Review everything about your lifting strategies and goals, nutrition and relaxation time. You'll find the right pattern, don't give up.

[plmb1]

Some of the variables are missing. How many exercises do you perform per body part? Explain your warm up sets. Do you pyramid sets or use one weight for all sets? What rep range do you work in? And, what exactly is your goal?

If you don't increase weight or increase reps per set very often, how do you challanger yourself? What do you mean by "feeling" overtrained? At the end of my three days in the gym I'm dead. Fatigued to the max. And loving every moment of it. If you're working hard to add some muscle mass you should feel spent at the end of the week. If I didn't I'd start to wonder about the time I'm spending in the gym. I know a lot of people advocate less rest time in between sets. As I get older I find the time between sets very important. I like to lift heavy (relative to me), in the 6-8 rep zone. I go to failure on every set. I take 3 minutes on all larger muscle groups and 2 minutes on the smaller ones. I find the quality of the set is better. Regarding your dilema with routines. Sounds like the problems stems from what you'd like to do and what you think you should do?? Using a heavy duty approach you could certainly work your chest, shoulders and tris in 45 minutes. That might present a problem though. You'd be extremely fatigued and mulitplying that x 3 seperste workouts, your back to your original question (problem). So maybe you might try reducing total workloads, review your nutrition plan and find time to rest more. Even if it's 15-20 minutes during the day to relax and forget the world. You have a tough job and bodybuilding on top makes life very "fatigued" . Review everything about your lifting strategies and goals, nutrition and relaxation time. You'll find the right pattern, don't give up.

My goal is to get as big as I can get with hard training, good rest and the right diet.....easier said than done......LOL. Anyway, as far as how many exersices per bodypart:

The reps shown here are for heavy days........on lighter days just add 2 or 3 reps on compound movements and 4 to 5 reps on other movements.

day one.......chest/tri:

flat bench BB: 2 warmup sets. 4 working sets 10/8/6/6
incline bench DB: 4 working sets 10/8/6/6
decline bench BB: 2 working sets 8/6
reverse grip bench BB: 3 working sets 8/6/6
nose breakers BB: 2 working sets 8/6
cable push downs: 2 working sets 10/8

day two......quads, hams and calves:

squats (smith machine): 3 warmup sets of 10. 4 working sets 8/6/6/4
stiff leg deads BB: 1 warmup set of 10. 4 working sets 10/8/6/6
leg ext: 2 working sets: 15/12
leg curls: 2 working sets: 15/12
standing calf raise: 4 working sets 20/15/10/8

day three......off

day four.......shoulders and trap:

military press BB: 3 warmup sets of 10. 4 working sets 8/6/6/4
side delts fly DB: 3 working sets 10/8/6
rear delts fly DB: 3 working sets 10/8/6
upright rows BB: 2 working sets 8/6
hammer machine shruggs: 4 working sets 10/8/8/6

day five.......off

day six........back and bicep:

deads BB: 3 warmups of 10. 4 working sets 8/6/6/4
one are bentover rows: 4 working sets 8/8/6/6
wide grip pullups: 2 sets to failure
medium grip pullups: 2 sets to failure
close grip chins: 2 sets to failure
standing BB curls: 4 working sets 8/6/6/6
hammer curls DB: 2 working sets 8/8

day seven.......off and so on for about 5 or 6 weeks and then I will go lighter for a few weeks. Then start over.

As far as challanging myself, as I said before I go up in weight but only ever couple of weeks. Is that not often enough? I know I can go up in weight more often but I do not want to risk another injury. I'm in it for the long haul. I'm in no hurry. I think that time is the issue with most. They just don't stay with it long enough.

When I say overtrained goes. I think I am overtraining when after five or six days a bodypart is still not recovered enough to train again........I hate that. Thats why I take the off days as shown to prevent that.

As far as time between sets. On days that I feel well enough I will only rest 30 to 60 seconds between sets. It helps make it more intense for me. If I had a rough day at work and just don't have the juice to do that then I will rest anywhere from 1 to 2 minutes between sets....especially compound movements.

Going to failure: I only go to failure on the last two sets on compound movements for all muscle groups. I go to failure on all other.

However, I do rest-pause sets ever third workout for each bodypart.

I sleep 7.5 to 8 hrs every night

I eat better than most........160 grams of protein from food....lean meat, eggs, nuts etc......another 100 grams from whey

around 500 grams of carbs: oats, sweet potatoes, green beans, spinach, flaxseed bread, granola....

around 60 grams of fat......from red meat and nuts mostly.

1 8oz glass of carrot and grape juice before workout.

My supps are the usual: whey, glutamine, vitamins, creatine, fish oils, minerals, zma, melatonin.

Sorry for the long post..........just did not want to leave anything out......Peace......and thanks for the reply.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

Why the reverse grip bench?

I'm counting 13 sets for chest movements, I'd drop the reverse grip benches..... but that's just me.

Otherwise, if I have to pick between the two I like #2 much better than #1.

http://www.criticalbench.com/reverse...ench-press.htm

[plmb1]

Why the reverse grip bench?

I'm counting 13 sets for chest movements, I'd drop the reverse grip benches..... but that's just me.

Otherwise, if I have to pick between the two I like #2 much better than #1.

http://www.criticalbench.com/reverse...ench-press.htm

the reverse grip bench is for triceps not chest. I do them with a close grip.......thanks.

[Old-Time-Lifter]

the reverse grip bench is for triceps not chest. I do them with a close grip.......thanks.

Okay that is correct I suppose (though I'm sure that depends on the width of your grip just like a regular bp)........ honestly I've never done them. They don't look like a natural movement to me and if you read the link I provided you'll see they are prone to injuring the lifter.

quote "Lifters were in fact getting hurt so frequently, that all the powerlifting organizations banned the reverse grip from competition.

I don't recommend using a reverse grip. For one it will take a long time to actually be successful at it. Secondly it's illegal and finally you will get injured before you even have a chance to get very strong. So the bottom line is save your destiny from being injured and bench with a conventional grip. "

[ironwill2008]

If you're able to add 2 1/2 to 5 pounds per month to your basic lifts, I'd say you're doing pretty well. What you're doing now suits you. As I said before, progression is the determinant on just about everything; you're making steady progress, and remaining injury-free while doing it. I say, keep on, keeping on. When you begin stalling-out, then it's time to look to change a few things; while stuff's working for you, ride it.

[dungeonmistress]

It would be hard for me to workout only three days a week because I don't like to train over 45 min or so at a time. I have a hard time training more than two muscle groups in 45 min. I also train after about 10 hours of construction work and I'm sure that plays a big part in not being able to train more than two muscles at a time not to mention making it harder to recover. I usually rest no more than 30 seconds to 1 min between sets on light and heavy days. I try to keep it short and intense. I usually cycle my heavy/light workouts. Heavy for 5 or 6 weeks, then light for about 3 or 4 weeks ect... I do like the idea of training heavy and light in the same week though. I think I will try that when I change my workout again. Right now I'm training on tue, thur, sat and sun training two bodyparts each workout. I know everyone is different but how many days a week and how many bodyparts each day do you think most natural BBers train? Just wondering because I really don't know any natural BBers in my area that I know of. I really don't listen to anyone that uses "the "S" word"........lol because their recovery and other stuff is so much better due to the drugs and I don't think I can use their advice because I'm not on the stuff that they are on......what do you think about that?

BTW........I liked the breaking the body in half thing.......LOL.

i think you're right about the recovery factor. training 4 days a week is awesome - i was doing the same myself but training more body parts per session up til about a month ago. for a long time i didn't train chest so my routine would be legs/back split and then delts bis tris for the other. i'd train each body part twice a week. i think you need to use yourself as a guide and not what others do as everyones ability to recover is different - especially when you factor in your very active job. i have a desk job. and like i said, when powerlifting i worked out 4 days a week with the heavier lifting before wednesday and lighter lifts for reps after wednesday (wed was my day off,as well as weekends). i can tell you that resting only 30 seconds on heavy training days is not enough. if you rested a little more you could lift more. 30 seconds imo is not enough but if its all you got then certainly better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, as they say.

really, i'm not as violent as i sound rofl.

[BJE]

I personally don't like workout #2 because I like to lift six days a week. I don't like to take days off. For this reason I work fewer body parts per day, and lift more days. It also give me shorter workouts.

[plmb1]

i think you're right about the recovery factor. training 4 days a week is awesome - i was doing the same myself but training more body parts per session up til about a month ago. for a long time i didn't train chest so my routine would be legs/back split and then delts bis tris for the other. i'd train each body part twice a week. i think you need to use yourself as a guide and not what others do as everyones ability to recover is different - especially when you factor in your very active job. i have a desk job. and like i said, when powerlifting i worked out 4 days a week with the heavier lifting before wednesday and lighter lifts for reps after wednesday (wed was my day off,as well as weekends). i can tell you that resting only 30 seconds on heavy training days is not enough. if you rested a little more you could lift more. 30 seconds imo is not enough but if its all you got then certainly better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, as they say.

really, i'm not as violent as i sound rofl.

I bet your a mean one......(just kidding)........but, I bet you can be if needed......LOL.

[plmb1]

If you're able to add 2 1/2 to 5 pounds per month to your basic lifts, I'd say you're doing pretty well. What you're doing now suits you. As I said before, progression is the determinant on just about everything; you're making steady progress, and remaining injury-free while doing it. I say, keep on, keeping on. When you begin stalling-out, then it's time to look to change a few things; while stuff's working for you, ride it.

Thanks for the info.........just needed to hear it I guess.....Peace.

[plmb1]

Okay that is correct I suppose (though I'm sure that depends on the width of your grip just like a regular bp)........ honestly I've never done them. They don't look like a natural movement to me and if you read the link I provided you'll see they are prone to injuring the lifter.

quote "Lifters were in fact getting hurt so frequently, that all the powerlifting organizations banned the reverse grip from competition.

I don't recommend using a reverse grip. For one it will take a long time to actually be successful at it. Secondly it's illegal and finally you will get injured before you even have a chance to get very strong. So the bottom line is save your destiny from being injured and bench with a conventional grip. "

I will do some reading on that........thanks.

[dungeonmistress]

I bet your a mean one......(just kidding)........but, I bet you can be if needed......LOL.

damn skippy i am lol!!! i can hold my own, for sure. i grew up (no surprise) as a tomboy - climbed trees, beat up the neighborhood bully (or tried to) for picking on my little brothers but yet it was ok for ME to beat the hell out of my little brothers...played tackle football (i was the only female i knew who could actually throw a nice spiral for distance and take a hit from a guy or four).

[dungeonmistress]

the reverse grip bench is for triceps not chest. I do them with a close grip.......thanks.

i used to do close grip benches with a cambered curl bar for triceps - i didn't reverse the grip though - there is no need. the closer you move your hands towards the center of the bar, the more the triceps are involved.

[dungeonmistress]

If you're able to add 2 1/2 to 5 pounds per month to your basic lifts, I'd say you're doing pretty well. What you're doing now suits you. As I said before, progression is the determinant on just about everything; you're making steady progress, and remaining injury-free while doing it. I say, keep on, keeping on. When you begin stalling-out, then it's time to look to change a few things; while stuff's working for you, ride it.

this is very true! my gym didn't have what i termed "weenie weights" - they were 1-1/4 lbs and very small. so i bought some and carried them with me to the gym so that i could add something to the bar. adding 2.5 lbs each side was too much sometimes - these little weenies helped me inch my way to a 200 lb 1 rep max bench press and i could have gone even heavier but was tripping out the day i did that on account of losing a crown on a tooth on the way to the gym that day.

[plmb1]

damn skippy i am lol!!! i can hold my own, for sure. i grew up (no surprise) as a tomboy - climbed trees, beat up the neighborhood bully (or tried to) for picking on my little brothers but yet it was ok for ME to beat the hell out of my little brothers...played tackle football (i was the only female i knew who could actually throw a nice spiral for distance and take a hit from a guy or four).

wow........no girls like that where I grew up......damn it....LOL.

[plmb1]

i used to do close grip benches with a cambered curl bar for triceps - i didn't reverse the grip though - there is no need. the closer you move your hands towards the center of the bar, the more the triceps are involved.

I use that one for nose breakers sometimes.......I'm ditching the reverse grip.

[plmb1]

this is very true! my gym didn't have what i termed "weenie weights" - they were 1-1/4 lbs and very small. so i bought some and carried them with me to the gym so that i could add something to the bar. adding 2.5 lbs each side was too much sometimes - these little weenies helped me inch my way to a 200 lb 1 rep max bench press and i could have gone even heavier but was tripping out the day i did that on account of losing a crown on a tooth on the way to the gym that day.

Ouch........losing that crown may have pissed you off and made you that much stronger......LOL. Where would a person buy these "weenie weights"? BTW......nice tat on your back......nice back also. Better back than most guys.

[dungeonmistress]

Ouch........losing that crown may have pissed you off and made you that much stronger......LOL. Where would a person buy these "weenie weights"? BTW......nice tat on your back......nice back also. Better back than most guys.

thank you!!

i got them at a sporting goods store, probably copelands or somewhere. this was quite some time ago. any place that sells free weights should have them. if you work out in a gym you will want to get olympic, not standard - the hole in the middle is bigger to accommodate the bar.

[plmb1]

thank you!!

i got them at a sporting goods store, probably copelands or somewhere. this was quite some time ago. any place that sells free weights should have them. if you work out in a gym you will want to get olympic, not standard - the hole in the middle is bigger to accommodate the bar.

thanks for the info......BTW.........I hope your knee and stuff is getting alot better. You are someone's dream girl for sure.

[ironwill2008]

this is very true! my gym didn't have what i termed "weenie weights" - they were 1-1/4 lbs and very small. so i bought some and carried them with me to the gym so that i could add something to the bar. adding 2.5 lbs each side was too much sometimes - these little weenies helped me inch my way to a 200 lb 1 rep max bench press and i could have gone even heavier but was tripping out the day i did that on account of losing a crown on a tooth on the way to the gym that day.

Micro-loading. Excellent! You're one of the few here to mention this. You're absolutely right; small increments can keep you gaining on heavy lifts for months. 1 1/4's are invaluable, IMO, especially to those who are continually lifting at limit, like when training a strength program.

To the OP who asked where to find 1 1/4's; few sporting-goods stores will stock them these days. Your best bet is to find and on-line Ivanko dealer; that's where I got mine, several years ago.

[dungeonmistress]

thanks for the info......BTW.........I hope your knee and stuff is getting alot better. You are someone's dream girl for sure.

HA! last i heard, mean fear me and i intimidate them. can you believe that? just because when i'm all business in the gym i guess i give them the wrong impression, i don't know.

[dungeonmistress]

Micro-loading. Excellent! You're one of the few here to mention this. You're absolutely right; small increments can keep you gaining on heavy lifts for months. 1 1/4's are invaluable, IMO, especially to those who are continually lifting at limit, like when training a strength program.

To the OP who asked where to find 1 1/4's; few sporting-goods stores will stock them these days. Your best bet is to find and on-line Ivanko dealer; that's where I got mine, several years ago.

great minds think alike!!! i will get to my goals by any means necessary for sure!

[plmb1]

HA! last i heard, mean fear me and i intimidate them. can you believe that? just because when i'm all business in the gym i guess i give them the wrong impression, i don't know.

LOL........I bet you do. Not many guys like that. Even most of the bodybuilder types don't. But, I said most not all. Some of us are not bothered by the fact that you are as strong as you are, or your size. Matter of fact, some of us like that. I am one of those guys myself. Most of the women I have dated did not work out. But, I have dated ladies that did and those were the best ones in my opinion. We had more in common in all aspects of life not just in the gym. Bottom line is if a guy can't handle the fact that you are just as strong or stronger than he is then HE DOES NOT DESERVE YOU. It is his loss not yours......You have given me so much great info that I just had to give you my opinion on that.......I'm sure you already know that but I just wanted to say it anyway.......Have a good night.