Nordilet HGH, cutting diet and professional advise required.

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Hey huys, I've been thinking for a while about many things in terms of HGH. But first let me tell you my story starting with a pic of me taken in 2007(attached). I've been through many bad circumstances, went off the track and gained a lot of weight. And now as seen in my display pic, I've just been focusing on losing overall weight to improve my overall health and now I'm planning to seriously dial in again, but lose fat till I reach 5% or 6% BF.

I've been training for a while now and thinking of using Nordilet HGH Pens seriously. After too much research and asking people around, I've been told that HGH is totaly safe to be used, it can be used by individuals who do not practice any kind of exercises as well for overall health! So I started wondering about these issues:

1 - As seen on www.youtube.com HGH can be used on daily basis wether you train or not. Is this true?

2 - In bodybuilding terms, Will the HGH effect "fat loss" still take place if I ate BIG but clean?

3 - Should I do cycles or can I just use it forever?

4 - What is best recommended, daily basis supply or every other day?

5 - Dosage required?

You may take a look at my ****ty and crappy diet and give advise as well (cutting phase).

Length - 183 cms
Weight - 90 KG

okey let me start from the minute I wake up:

4:45 AM - glass of water

5:30 AM - 2 scoops of N.O Explode = 12 grams of carbs

5:45 AM - Serving of Nutrix Lipo 6X

6:15 AM - Training "maybe for 1 hour and sometimes 15 minutes more, 1 muscle a day, abs and 50 minutes of cardio"

8:00 AM - Slice of white bread - approximately 25 grams of carbs

8:30 AM - 1 scoop ON Whey and 1 scoop Syntha 6 = 46 grams of protein

11:30 AM - 2 slices of whole wheat bread and 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen" and a topping of mustard

2:00 PM - Serving of Nutrix Lipo 6x

2:30 PM - 2 slices of whole wheat bread and 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen" and a topping of mustard

4:00 PM - 1 serving of Dynamisan multi vitmains and minerals and 1 gram of Vitaman C

5:30 PM - 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen"

8:30 PM - 1 scoop of Syntha 6 and 1 serving of omega 3, 6 and 9

go to bed by 9:30 pm or 10:00 pm

All replies are greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

[1bebigger]

Originally Posted by FLEX_da_REMIX

Hey huys, I've been thinking for a while about many things in terms of HGH. But first let me tell you my story starting with a pic of me taken in 2007(attached). I've been through many bad circumstances, went off the track and gained a lot of weight. And now as seen in my display pic, I've just been focusing on losing overall weight to improve my overall health and now I'm planning to seriously dial in again, but lose fat till I reach 5% or 6% BF.

I've been training for a while now and thinking of using Nordilet HGH Pens seriously. After too much research and asking people around, I've been told that HGH is totaly safe to be used, it can be used by individuals who do not practice any kind of exercises as well for overall health! So I started wondering about these issues:

1 - As seen on www.youtube.com HGH can be used on daily basis wether you train or not. Is this true?

2 - In bodybuilding terms, Will the HGH effect "fat loss" still take place if I ate BIG but clean?

3 - Should I do cycles or can I just use it forever?

4 - What is best recommended, daily basis supply or every other day?

5 - Dosage required?

You may take a look at my ****ty and crappy diet and give advise as well (cutting phase).

Length - 183 cms
Weight - 90 KG

okey let me start from the minute I wake up:

4:45 AM - glass of water

5:30 AM - 2 scoops of N.O Explode = 12 grams of carbs

5:45 AM - Serving of Nutrix Lipo 6X

6:15 AM - Training "maybe for 1 hour and sometimes 15 minutes more, 1 muscle a day, abs and 50 minutes of cardio"

8:00 AM - Slice of white bread - approximately 25 grams of carbs

8:30 AM - 1 scoop ON Whey and 1 scoop Syntha 6 = 46 grams of protein

11:30 AM - 2 slices of whole wheat bread and 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen" and a topping of mustard

2:00 PM - Serving of Nutrix Lipo 6x

2:30 PM - 2 slices of whole wheat bread and 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen" and a topping of mustard

4:00 PM - 1 serving of Dynamisan multi vitmains and minerals and 1 gram of Vitaman C

5:30 PM - 1 peice of grilled chicken breast "frozen"

8:30 PM - 1 scoop of Syntha 6 and 1 serving of omega 3, 6 and 9

go to bed by 9:30 pm or 10:00 pm

All replies are greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

looks like the diet of a concentration camp prisoner

learn how to diet and run you a cut diet on 500mg of test for 12 weeks. you wont benefit much off gh at your age without a expensively high dose. learn about pct. google is your friend. and so are the stickies on the board.

[adam247]

The main thing you should focus on, as it says above, is the diet. This is a key factor in building a physique. Dont get caught up in having set times and having set meals. This will only box you in and create an inflexible diet that contradicts the variables involved in adaptation. What I advise you to do instead is get a basic understanding of the most nutritious foods and a basic understanding of the glycemic index and the speed of absorption and amounts of different micro nutrients can affect the endocrine system. Once you have these understandings you can then allow your intuition, hunger, tastebuds and training dictate your dietary needs for each day. If you want a few examples off foods that are nutitious seperated into micro nutrient columns ask and I will give you some.

[one8nine]

1 - As seen on www.youtube.com HGH can be used on daily basis wether you train or not. Is this true?

most commonly used 5 days on 2 days off

2 - In bodybuilding terms, Will the HGH effect "fat loss" still take place if I ate BIG but clean?

yes its also thought to have localized fat reduction effects where injected

3 - Should I do cycles or can I just use it forever?

forever if youre filthy rich

4 - What is best recommended, daily basis supply or every other day?

5/2

5 - Dosage required?

2-3iu fat loss, 4-6iu muscle growth (typical) also its best to ramp up to your dose... 2iu a few weeks 3iu a few weeks etc

You may take a look at my ****ty and crappy diet and give advise as well (cutting phase).

hgh also affects t4, t3, insulin and igf-1 it is not reqired but advised to supplement each

here is a huge **** ton of faqs on it

this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas
Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc?s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu?s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.


Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.


How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

[one8nine]

Half-Life of GH:
Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.

GH Naturally Produced:
We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that?s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.

GH Causing Acromeglia:
Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.

GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:

Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.

GH and IGF-1:
Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.

GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.

The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)
In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with GH alone...8 to 12% change in lean body composition. 6% increase in muscle mass.



I GEUSS REDS GONE NOW THANKS TRIP, DID A SEARCH ON GOOGLE AND FOUND THIS, IWILL KEEP LOOKING FOR A MORE CURRENT UPDATE AS THIS WAS DONEON 6/20/05


I originally wrote this for one of the boards I am a mod at. For chance there is anyone considering a combination cycle using these and isn't really clear on where to start, this is some basic information to help get you on your way. Enjoy! - RedBaron

[Putting it all together - HGH + IGF-1 + Slin ? by RedBaron
A basic guide for the lazy man

There are volumes of information and studies available about using HGH, IGF-1, and Insulin, but for the most part coming up with a good cycle including all of these is a tedious process and requires more reading than most people wish to do or have the time to do. The following is meant to a quick and simple reference to what a cycle including all three might look like and a brief description of the action of each component. This is in no wise intended to be a comprehensive guide nor is it presented as the ONLY way to run a cycle such as this. This is merely as an example of one method that will definitely yield results.

THE CYCLE

Weeks 1- (20-30) ? HGH ? On 5/ off 2
Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25)
? 2 ? 2.5 IU?s - first thing in the morning on workout days ? early afternoon on non-workout days
Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30)
? 2 ? 2.5 IU?s first thing in the morning
? 2 ? 2.5 IU?s post workout with your insulin (or alternatively before workout if desired)
All HGH injected subQ into a**omen, obliques, fronts of the thighs, upper triceps

Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) ? Long R3 IGF-1 ? Every day
60mcg?s intramuscular
? post work out on workout days
? first thing in the morning on non workout days

Weeks 6-10, 16-20, (26-30) ? Humalog ? Workout days only
? 8IU?s immediately post workout, intramuscular

IMPORTANT / CRITICAL - Post Insulin Nutrition
Immediately after Humalog injection ? do the following
? Injection + 5 minutes ? drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin)
? Injection + 15 minutes ? drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
? Injection + 60 ? 75 minutes ? eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

OPTIONAL Addition to above cycle

Weeks 1- (20-30) T3 - Every Day
? 12.5 mcgs - 25 mcgs taken each day

[alternative method if additional fat loss is necessary - Only use if sufficient AAS cycle is present to protect and support lean tissue]
Weeks 1-5, 11-15, (21-25) T3 Every Day
For each of the 5 week runs of T3:
Days 1-3 25 mcgs
Days 4-6 50 mcgs
Days 7-9 75 mcgs
Days 10 - 20 100 mcgs
Days 21 - 24 75 mcgs
Days 25 - 27 50 mcgs
Days 28 - 30 25 mcgs
Days 31 - 35 12.5 mcgs

DESCRIPTION OF THE ELEMENTS OF THIS CYCLE

HGH
HGH should ideally be used for 20-30 week cycles (or longer). The dosage should be between 2-3IU per day if you are using GH primarily for fat loss, 4-5 IU?s a day for both fat loss and muscle growth, and approximately 1.0 ? 2.0 IU?s a day for females. It is best to split your injections 1/2 first thing in the morning, 1/2 early afternoon if your dose is above 3.0 IU?s per day. Your pituitary will naturally produce about 6-9 pulses of GH per day. Each injection you take will create a negative feedback loop that will suppress these pulses for about 4 hours. By taking your injections first thing in the morning and early afternoon you will still allow your body to release its biggest pulse, which normally occurs shortly after going to sleep at night.

[one8nine]

When starting out with your HGH cycle, for most people it is wise to begin you dose at 1.5 ? 2.0IU per day for the first couple of weeks, and then begin increasing your dose by 0.5 unit every week or two until you reach your desired level. While it isn't an absolute neccessity to do this, if you are sensitive to the type of sides HGH present you will often times avoid these sides of joint pain/swelling, and bloating/water retention by slowly acclaimating to your ultimate 4-5 IU/day goal.

You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your a**omen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites.

IGF-1
When HGH makes it pass through the liver, a release of IGF-1 is a result. IGF-1 appears to be the key player in muscle growth. It stimulates both the differentiation and proliferation of myoblasts. It also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. While HGH will cause an increase in your IGF-1 level over the course of a few months, HGH has a cumulative effect, so the addition of IGF-1 will greatly speed up the time to results.

There are two types of IGF-1 that will typically be used by bodybuilders. One is bio-identical huIGF-1, a 70 amino acid string. The other is Long R3 IGF-1, which is an 83 amino acid analog of human IGF-I comprising the complete human IGF-I sequence with the substitution of an Arg for the Glu at position 3 (hence R3), and a 13 amino acid extension peptide at the N-terminus (hence the long). This 13 amino acid "side chain" helps prevent the IGF-1 from being so easily bound, and thus increases its active window exponentially. Which of these you use depends on your goal.

HuIGF-1 is very short lived in the body (half life of probably around 10 minutes). This type of IGF-1 is very useful if you are seeking local site growth. Since it is so short lived, little of the IGF-1 makes it to other tissues and IGF-1 receptors in the body. The way to inject this is immediately post work out into the muscle that you wish to have local site growth. Use a U100 insulin syringe, and inject 60-80mcg?s bilaterally into the desired muscle immediately post workout. For this type of IGF-1, I would use it workout days only or if desired you could inject on non-workout days first thing in the morning into a muscle group worked the previous day.

For Long R3 IGF-1, it isn?t as critical that you inject into a local site as long R3 has a active window of many hours, and is designed specifically to resist being bound by IGF binding proteins.

Since it is common to reconstitute this type of IGF-1 with Benzyl Alcohol, Acetic Acid, or Hydrochloric Acid, I would still recommend that you inject intra-muscular. While for some purposes of nerve regrowth, etc. subQ is a somewhat superior injection method, it can and probably will leave a nice red irritated spot if you inject subQ, and it is not superior for muscle growth purposes anyway.

I still inject into a muscle just worked to take advantage of increased IGF-1 receptors present as a result of tearing down muscles with workout, but because of the long activity window of this type of IGF-1 any muscle will work well and give you good results,. I would suggest that you inject between 40-80mcg?s per day everyday immediately post workout on workout days, and first thing in the morning on non-workout days.

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IGF-1 intramuscular (bilaterally for HuIGF-1, bilaterally optional for Long R3)

Insulin
Working out causes us to end up in a catabolic state. It is important to back in a positive nitrogen balance as soon as possible. When not using insulin, we drink some dextrose with our protein to cause an insulin spike immediately post workout to help shuttle the protein and sugars to the muscles.

Insulin is very good at shuttling nutrients to the muscles, and works in a very complimentary manner with GH in the types of things that they shuttle. Also, HGH can cause an amount of insulin resistance, so adding some insulin to your cycle will go a long ways toward reducing the elevated blood glucose levels caused by HGH's interfering with the liver's ability to uptake glucose, and thus help offset any potential resistance that might occur during your HGH cycle. Also by taking our HGH with or near the time of our insulin injection (immediately post workout) we are ensuring a great influx of growth factors. HGH + Slin passed through the liver = BIG secretion of growth factors. These growth factors will equate to muscle growth, rapid healing, etc.

For the purposes that we are using insulin, a dosage of 4-10IU?s is adequate and should be used immediately post workout. I personally prefer using Humalog intramuscular as it will cause a rapid spike and clear out of your system quickly. You can use it sub-q or use Humulin-R instead, but each of these will result in a longer active window, thus a longer time to avoid eating any fats and watching your carb intake. Any fats or over abundance of carbs will end up being stored as fat during insulin's active window. The approximate windows are:
Humalog - IM - 2-3 hours
Sub-q - 3-4 hours
Humulin -R - IM - 3-4 hours
Sub-q 4-5 hours

Use a U-100 insulin syringe with 1/2" needle to inject IM immediately post workout. Alternatively, you can inject subQ if desired or if you wish a longer active window for some reason. Begin with a dose of 2IU's or so, and increase the dose each workout day until you reach your 8IU's.

If for some reason you wish to avoid insulin, I would still suggest that immediately post workout you spike you own endogenous insulin by drinking 80 grams of dextrose / 40 grams of whey isolate protein. While this certainly won't do the work of 8-10 IU's of Humalog, it will most certainly assist getting your muscle back in a nitrogen positive environment in a short amount of time.


T3
HGH can have a slight inhibitory effect on your thyroid. For most people this is minimal and does not require any additional thyroid be taken, but if you wish to augment protein synthesis as well as give yourself a slight metabolic boost in thyroid without shutting down your own production, you can add 12.5mcg of T3 daily to your HGH, IGF-1, Insulin cycle. This will aid both in bulking and cutting.

If you add T3 to your cycle, you should also consider taking some thyroid support supplements such as t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin. You should check and make sure your intake of trace minerals (selenium, zinc, copper) is sufficient to aid in the conversion of T4 to T3.

If you are going to take more than 12.5 mcg of T3, a wise method is to cycle the dose both up and down to avoid a rebound effect when going off the T3 portion of your cycle. The other consideration is that T3 is very indiscriminant in it stoking of the metabolic fire. It will happily burn both fat and lean tissue, so I would only recommend its use at much above 25mcgs per day (and definitely if used at 50mcgs or above at which point IGFBP's will rise significantly) if you are on a reasonably healthy anabolic cycle to protect your lean tissue. For strictly our use with an HGH cycle and use in assisting with protein sythesis, 12.5mcg will be sufficient and will not be problematic.

Also another consideration if cycling in higher doses, cycle your T3 in conjunction with your LR3 IGF-1 use. The thought behind this is that LR3 binds poorly to IGFBP's, so you will be able to use an elevated dose of T3 (which will likely increase IGFBP's) and still keep elevated IGF-1 levels. I would suggest that use of T3 above 25mcg's or so would not be advisable for too many 5 weeks segments of your complete cycle. As one of the major "anabolic" benefits of HGH use is elevated IGF-1 levels, we don't want to create an environment of radically increased IGF binding proteins. Abuse of T3 will go a long way in creating that environment hostile to IGF-1.

[one8nine]

Well, I think that about covers the peptide suite ?all that is needed to complete this cycle is the addition of your prefered testosterone combo (cyp, e, prop, etc.) and you have a great combination for bulking or cutting.







I can't remember where I found this originally, but I found it on my hard drive today and remember it as being a very good read!

HGH does work synergistically with AAS and slin. HGH causes changes in insulin sensitivity so you don't get the normal reaction from your endocrine system. Test is great to work with HGH this is how the body builds muscle normally. You get a test response to the release of HGH and IGF-1 in your muscles. The body sends the hormone response to the effected receptors and mediates protein synthesis and muscular renucleation.



what is GHG?
HUMAN GROWTH HORMONE Substance: Somatropin
Trade Names:
Corpormon 4 I.U.; Nikken Japan
Crescormon (o.c.) 4 I.U.; Globopharm CH; Kabi GR, YU; Kabi Vitrurn U.S.
Crescormonn (o.c.) 4 I.U. Kabi-Fides ES
Genotr 2, 3, 4 I.U. Kabi pharmacia NO 16, 32 I.U.
Genotonorm 4 I.U. Kabi B; Kabipfrimmer ES
Genotropin 2 I.U. Kabi pharmacia S, BG, A, GR, NL
Genotropin 3 I.U. Kabi pharmacia 5, BG, A, GR, NL
Genotropin 3 I.U.; Kabi pharmacia G, DG, 5; BG, A, HU, PL, CZ GR, NL, CH, Fl, Pierrel I
Genotropin 12 I.U.; Kabi pharmacia S, DK, PT CZ, NO, CH
Genotropin 16 I.U; Kabi pharmacia G, DK, Fl, S, A, PT HU, GR,NL, CH
Geno, Kabi Quick 2, 3 1.U. Kabi Pharmacia G
Grorm (o.c.) 4 I.U. Serono G, CH, ES, I
Grorm 2, 4 I.U. Institutio farmacologio serono CZ
Humatrope 4 I.U. Lilly G, DK, ES, 5, GB, Fl, B, HU, GR, CZ, NO, NL, I Serum und Impfinstitut CH
Humatrope 5mg sol.; Lilly U.S.
Humatrope 16 I.U.; Lilly G, DK, Fl, GB, ES, GR, NO, NL, CH
Norditropin 4 I.U.; Nordisk PL; Nordisk Gentofte DK; Novo-Nordisk A, ES, 1, NO, Novo HU, Novo Industri BG
Norditropin 12 I.U.; Novo-Nordisk G, Fl; CH, NO, NL, ES Novo GB; FI, HU, Nordisk Gentofte DK; Nordisk B, PL Novo Industri BG, CZ, Santa GR
Norditropin 24 I.U.; Novo Industri CZ, Novo HU, Fl, Santa GR Novo Nordisk NO, A, ES, DK, NL
Norditrop. Pen Set 24 I.U. Novo-Nordisk G
Nutropin 10 mg sol.; Genentech U.S.
Protropin 10 nig sol.: Genentech U.S.
Saizen 2 I.U. Serono G, CH, ES
Saizen 4 I.U. Serono G, A, CH, ES, 1, GB, GR, Fl, HU, FR, S, CZ
Saizen ES 10 LU. Serono S, Fl, GB, CH, CZ, HU, FR,
Somatohorm 4 I.U. Biomed PL
Somatohorm 4 I.U. Kabi-vitrum CZ, Kabi pharmacia ES, FR
Somat. Sero (o.c.) 4 LU. Serotherapeutisches Institut A
Zomacton 4,12 I.U. Ferring G


"Wow, is this great stuff. It is the best drug for permanent muscle gains. This is the only drug that can remedy bad genetics, as it will make anybody grow. GH use is the biggest gamble that an athlete can take, as the side effects are irreversible. Even with all that, we LOVE the stuff." (Daniel Duchaine, Underground Steroid Handbook, 1982.)

As with no other doping drug, growth hormones are still surrounded by an aura of mystery. Some call it a wonder drug, which causes gigantic strength and muscle gains in the shortest time. Others consider it completely useless in improving sports performance and argue that it only promotes the growth process in children with an early stunting of growth. Some are of the opinion that growth hormones in adults cause severe bone deformities in the form of over-growth of the lower jaw and extremities. And, generally speaking, which growth hormones should one take -the human form, the synthetically manufactured version, recombined or genetically produced form- and in which dosage? All this controversy about growth hormones is so complex that the reader must have some basic information in order to understand them. The growth hormone is a polypeptide hormone consisting of 191 amino acids. In humans it is produced in the hypophysis and released if there are the right stimuli (e.g. training, sleep, stress, low blood sugar level). It is now important to understand that the freed HGH (human growth hormone) itself has no direct effect but only stimulates the liver to produce and release insulin-like growth factors and somatomedins. These growth factors are then the ones that cause various effects on the body The problem, however, is that the liver is only capable of producing a limited amount of these substances so that the effect is limited. If growth hormones are injected they only stimulate the liver to produce and release these substances and thus, as already mentioned, have no direct effect.

During the mid 1980's only the human, biologically active form was available as exogenous sour-cc of intake. It was obtained from the hypophysis of dead corpses, an expensive and costly procedure. In 1985 the intake of human growth hormones was linked with the very rare Creutzfeld-Jakob disease, an invariably fatal brain disease characterized by progressive dementia. In response, manufacturers removed this version from the market. Today, human growth hormones are no longer available for injection. Fortunately, science has not been asleep and has developed the synthetic growth hormone, which is genetically produced either from Escherichia coli (E coli) or from the transformed mouse cell line. It has been available in numerous countries for years (see list with Trade Names.

The use of these STH somatotropic hormone compounds offers the athlete three performance-enhancing effects. STH (somatotropic hormone) has a strong anabolic effect and causes an increased pro-tein synthesis which manifests itself in a muscular hypertrophy (enlargement of muscle cells) and in a muscular hyperplasia (in-crease of muscle cells.) The latter is very interesting since this in-crease cannot be obtained by the intake of steroids. This is probably also the reason why STH is called the strongest anabolic hormone. The second effect of STH is its pronounced influence on the burning of fat. It turns more body fat into energy, leading to a drastic reduction in fat or allowing the athlete to increase his caloric intake. Third, and often overlooked, is the fact that STH strengthens the connective tissue, tendons, and cartilages, which could be one of the main reasons for the significant increase in strength experienced by many athletes. Several bodybuilders and power lifters report that through the simultaneous intake with steroids STH protects the athlete from injuries while increasing his strength. You will say that this sounds just wonderful. What is the problem, however, since there are still some who argue that STH offers nothing to athletes? There are, by all means, several athletes who have tried STH and who were sadly disappointed by its results. However, as with many things in life, there is a logical explanation or perhaps even more than one:

3. Since most athletes who want to use STH can only obtain it if prescribed by a physician, the only supply source remains the black market. And this is certainly another reason why some athletes might not have been very happy with the effect of the purchased com-pound. How could he, if cheap HCG was passed off as expensive STH? Since both compounds are available as dry substances, all that would be needed is a new label of Serono's Saizen or Lilly's Humatrope on the HCG ampule. It is no longer fun when somebody is paying $200 for 5000 I.U. of HCG, only worth $12, and thinking that he just purchased 4 I.U. of STH. And if you think this happens only to novices and to the ignorant, ask Ben Johnson. "Big Ben," who during three tests within five days showed an above-limit testosterone level, was not a victim of his own stupidity but more likely the victim of fraud. 'According to statistics by the German Drug Administration, 42% of the HGH vials confiscated on the North American black market are fakes." (Der Spiegel, no. 11, 1993.) One can only say, "Poor Ben." Even Deutsche Apothekerzeitung is aware of this problem. The magazine wrote in its issue no. 26 of 07/01/93 in the article "Wachstumshormon--Praparate: Arzneimittelf5lschungen in Bodybuilder-Szene": "The currently-known cases are traded with Dutch or Russian labels... in addition to a display of labels in the Dutch or Russian language the fakes are distinguished from the original product, in-sofar as the dry substance is not present as lyophilic but present as loose powder. The fakes confiscated so far use the name "Humatrope 16" under the name of Lilly Company (with Dutch denomination) or "Somatogen" (in Russian)." Nowhere can this much money be made except by faking STH. Who has ever held original growth hormones in his hand and known how.they should look?

[one8nine]

4. In a few very rare cases the body reacts by developing-antibodies to the exogenous STH, thus making it ineffective.

Before discussing the extremely difficult matter of dosage and intake the following question suggests itself: Generally speaking who is taking growth hormones? A whole lot of athletes as the following quotation suggests: "Charlie Francis, the Canadian athletic trainer of Ben Johnson tells how he improved the performance of Ben and numerous other Olympic athletes by the use of growth hormones in 1983. Francis also had conclusive evidence that the U.S.-American field and track athletes were using growth hormones. In a 1989 interview with a pro bodybuilder, an interview not meant for publication, this massive athlete made clear that he was convinced that almost all professional top athletes were using Protropin. He also said that it did not bother him if the IFBB were to introduce doping tests for men in 1990 as long as there would be no testing for growth hormones (Anabolic Reference Update, June 1989, no. 11). "it is highly suspected that the top Ms. 0 competitors use this product to help them attain their incredibly rippled muscles while still looking like women." (Anabolic Reference Guide, 5th Issue, 1990, W N. Phillips.) Most top bodybuilders using Growth Hormone (GH) feel that insulin activates it. One top pro was rumoured to have been using 12 I. U. of GH per day in preparation for his last WBF contest. He swears that GH only works with insulin." (Muscle Media 2000 ' October/ November 1993, no. 34.)" And shortly before the 1984 Olympic Games in Los Angeles, U.S. researchers succeeded in synthetically manufacturing the hormone. This hormone, which cannot be detected with current testing methods immediately, prepared American athletes throughout the country for the games in California. After reports of success the drug became the secret runner on the doping market. The football pro Lyle Alzado, who died of brain tumour, shortly before his death confessed that he had taken HGH for 16 weeks - and he claimed that 80% of all American football pros do so, too. Ben Johnson, who in 1988 in Seoul was caught with anabolics, admitted to the investigating committee of the Canadian government that he had tried the Growth Hormone. He had paid $ 10,000 for ten bottles of HGH. According to Johnson, his physician, George Astaphan, had also designed programs for his colleagues Mark McCoy, Angela Issajenko, and Desai Williams. Hurdle sprinter Julie Rochelean who toddy runs records for Switzerland under the name Baumann procured HGH on the black market of the bodybuilder scene in Montreal... Among women Gail Devers won the 100 meters (1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona, the auth.) after having just overcome a severe thyroid condition, a well-known side effect of taking HGH. Such suspicions are reinforced by current market data. The two U.S. companies Genentech and Eli Lilly produced about 800 million dollars of HGH in 1992. Genentech alone reported an eleven percent production increase compared to last year. Chemists incessantly emphasize that the drug should only be manufactured for use by persons with stunted growth. The U.S.Food and Drug Administration, however, sees it differently: the U.S. government currently includes HGH on the list of forbidden drugs and 'threatens up to five years of, prison for illegal possession of the drug." (Der Spiegel, no. I I of 03/15/93). "Many of the top strength athletes use HGH and the cost of its use ran as high as $30,000/year for one particular pro bodybuilder. Short-term users (8 week duration) will spend up to $150 per daily dosage. And because the top athletes are rumoured to use it, HGH lust in the lower ranks has become more rampant." (Daniel Duchaine, Underground Steroid Handbook 2.)

The question of the right dosage, as well as the type and duration of application, Is very difficult to answer. Since there is no scientific research showing how STH should be taken for performance improvement, we can only rely on empirical data, which are experimental values. The respective manufacturers indicate that in cases of hypophysially stunted growth due to lacking or insufficient release of growth hormones by the hypophysis, a weekly average dose of 0.3 I.U./week per pound of body weight should be taken. An athlete weighing 200 pounds, therefore, would have to inject 60 I.U. weekly. The dosage would be divided into three intramuscularly injections of 20 I.U. each. Subcutaneous injections (under the skin) are another form of intake, which, however, would have to be injected daily, usually 8 I.U. per day. Top athletes usually inject 4-16 I.U~day. Ordinarily, daily subcutaneous injections are preferred Since STH has a half-life time of less than one hour, it is not surprising that some athletes divide their daily dose into three or four subcutaneous injections of 2-4 I.U. each. Application of regular, small dosages seems to bring the most effective results. This also has its reasons: When STH is injected; serum concentration in the blood rises quickly, meaning that the effect is almost immediate. As we know, STH stimulates the liver to produce and release somatomedins and insulin-like growth factors that in turn effect the desired results in the body. Since the liver can only produce a limited amount of these substances, we doubt that larger STH injections will induce the liver to produce instantaneously a larger quantity of somatomedins and insulin-like growth factors. it seems more likely that the liver will react more favourably to smaller dosages.



If the STH solution is injected subcutaneous several consecutive times at the same point of injection, a loss of fat tissue is possible. Therefore, the point of injection, or even better, the entire side of the body, should be continuously changed in order to avoid a loss of local fat tissue (lipoathrophy) in the injection cell. One thing has manifested itself over the years: The effect of STH is dosage-dependent. This means either invest a lot of money and do it right or do not even begin. Half-hearted attempts are condemned to failure. Minimum effective dosages seem to start at 4 I.U. per day. For comparison: the hypophysis of a healthy, adult releases 0.5-1.5 I.U. growth hormones daily. The duration of intake usually depends on the athlete's financial resources. Our experience is that STH is taken over a prolonged period, from at least six weeks to several months. It is interesting to note that the effect of STH does not stop after a few weeks; this usually allows for continued improvements at a steady dosage. Bodybuilders who have had positive results with STH have reported that the built-up strength and, in particular, the newly gained muscle system were essentially maintained after discontinuance of the product. The American physician, Dr. William N. Taylor, confirms this statement in his book Anabolic Steroids and the Athlete, where on page 75 he writes: "Evidence for increased muscle number (hyperplasia) in athletes stems from their statements that the increased muscular size and strength remain after the HGH therapy has been discontinued. In fact, there may be further muscular size and strength gains as the training-induced hypertrophy continues in the month beyond."

It remains to be clarified what happens with the insulin and LT-3 thyroid hormone. Athletes who take - STH in their build-up phase usually do not need exogenous insulin. It is recommended, in this case, that the athlete eats a complete meal every three hours, resulting in 6-7 meals daily. This causes the body to continuously release insulin so that the blood sugar level does not fall too low. Athletes carry out the use of LT-3 thyroid hormones, in this phase, reluctantly. In any case, you must have a physician check the thyroid hormone level during the intake of STH. Simultaneous use of anabolic/androgenic steroids and/or Clenbuterol is usually appropriate. During the preparation for a competition the use of thyroid hormones steadily increases. Sometimes insulin is taken together with STH, as well as with steroids and Clenbuterol. Apart from the high damage potential that exogenous insulin can-have in non-diabetics, incorrect use will simply and plainly make you FAT! Too much insulin activates certain enzymes which convert glucose into glycerol and finally into triglyceride. Too little insulin, especially during a diet, reduces the anabolic effect of STH. The solution to this dilemma- visiting a qualified physician, who advises the athlete during this undertaking and who, in the event of exogenous insulin supply, checks the blood sugar level and urine periodically. According to what we have heard so far, athletes usually inject intermediately effective insulin having a maximum duration of effect of 24 hours once a day. Human insulin such as Depot-H Insulin Hoechst is generally used. Briefly athletes rarely use effective insulin with a maximum duration of effect of eight hours. Again human insulin such as H-Insulin Hoechst is preferred.

The undesired effect of growth hormones, the so-called side effects, is also a very interesting and hotly discussed issue. Above all it must be said: STH has none of the typical side effects of anabolic/ androgenic steroids including reduced endogenous testosterone production, acne, hair loss, aggressiveness, elevated estrogen level, virilization symptoms in women, and increased water and salt retention. The main side effects that are possible with STH are an abnormally small concentration of glucose in the Wood (hypoglycaemia) and an inadequate thyroid function. In some cases antibodies against growth hormones are developed but are clinically irrelevant. What about the horror stories about Acr*****ly, bone deformation, heart enlargement, organ conditions, gigantism, and early death- In order to answer this question a clear differentiation must be made between humans before and after puberty. The growth plates in a person continue to grow in length until puberty. After puberty neither an endogenous hyper section of growth hormones nor an excessive exogenous supply of STH can cause additional growth in the length of the bones. Abnormal size (gigantism) initially goes hand in hand with remarkable body strength and muscular hardness in the afflicted; later, if left untreated, it ends in weakness and death. Again, this is only possible in pre-pubescent humans who also suffer from an inadequate gonadal function (hypogonadism). Humans who suffer from an endogenous hyper secretion after puberty and whose normal growth is completed can also suffer from Acr*****ly. Bones become wider but not longer. There is a progressive growth in the hands and feet, and enlargement of features due to the growth of the lower jaw and nose. Heart muscle and kidneys can also gain in weight and size. In the beginning all of this goes hand in hand with increased body strength and muscular hardness; it ends, however, in fatigue, weakness, diabetes, heart conditions, and early death.

[one8nine]

What the authorities like to do now is to present extreme cases of athletes suffering from these malfunctions in order to discourage others and to drum into athletes the fact that with the exogenous supply of growth hormones they would suffer the same destiny This, however, is very unlikely, as reality has proven. Among the numerous athletes using STH comparatively few are seven feet tall Neanderthal with a protruded lower jaw, deformed skull, claw like hands, thick lips, and prominent bone plates who walk around in size 25 shoes in order to avoid any misunderstandings, we do not want to disguise the possible risks of exogenous STH use in adults and healthy humans, but one should at least try to be open-minded. Acr*****ly, diabetes, thyroid insufficiency, heart muscle hypertrophy, high blood pressure, and enlargement of the kidneys are theoretically possible if STH is used excessively over prolonged periods of time; however, in reality and particularly when it comes to the external attributes, these are rarely present. Tests have shown no causal relation between treatment with Somatropin and a possible higher risk of leukaemia. Some athletes report headaches, nausea, vomiting, and visual disturbances during the first weeks of intake. These symptoms disappear in most cases even with continued intake. The most common problems with STH occur when the athlete intends to inject insulin in addition to STH. We know two competing German bodybuilders who, because of improper insulin injections, fell into comas lasting several weeks.


The substance Somatropin is available as a dried powder and before injecting it must be mixed with the enclosed solution-containing ampule. The ready solution must be injected immediately or stored in the refrigerator for up to 24 hours. It is usually recommended that the compound be stored in the refrigerator. With the exception of the remedy Saizcn the biological activity of growth hormones is usually not impaired when storing the dry substance at 15-25?C (room temperature); however, a cooler place (2-8? C is preferable. On the black market the price for 4 I.U. each of the compounds Genotropin, Humatrope, Norditropin, and Saizen, in Europe is $80 - 120 for a prick-through vial including the solution ampule. As already mentioned, there are many fakes. It is noted that for the U.S.-American growth hormone compounds, the substance con tent is not given in 1-U. (International Units) but in mg (milligrams). Since I mg corresponds to exactly 2.7 I.U. the 5 mg solution of the compound Humatrope by Lilly contains exactly 13.5 I.U. of Somatropin. The 10 mg solution of the Protropin compound by Genentech therefore contains 27 I.U. of Somatropin. In American powerlifting and bodybuilding circles Humatrope is usually preferred over Protropin. The reason is that Humatrope is synthesized from a chain of 191 amino acids and thus is identical to the amino acid sequence of the human growth hormone. Protropin, on the other hand, consists of 192 amino acids, one amino acid too many. This might be the explanation for why more antibodies are developed with Protropin than with Humatrope. Growth hormones are on the doping list but they are not yet detectable during doping tests.



The Scientific Basis for HGH Supplementation

---------->http://www.i-care.net/HGH-intro.htm




Thyroid Function

Your Health Information

Organs
? Thyroid
? Pituitary
? Hypothalamus
Hormones
? T4
? T3
? TRH
? TSH
Thyroid Function

The function of the thyroid is to secrete hormones which control metabolic pathways and thereby control various physiological functions. The thyroid gland operates in concert with the hypothalamus and the pituitary, which is commonly referred to as the "hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis." In addition to the stimulatory cascade leading to thyroid hormone secretion, the axis is also subject to feedback inhibition by the circulating thyroid hormones.
Organs

The Thyroid


The thyroid is a small (25 grams) butterfly-shaped gland located at the base of the throat. The largest of the endocrine glands, it consists of two lobes joined by the isthmus. The thyroid hugs the trachea on either side at the second and third tracheal ring, opposite of the 5th, 6th and 7th cervical vertebrae. It is composed of many functional units called follicles, which are separated by connective tissue.
Thyroid follicles are spherical and vary in size. Each follicle is lined with epithelial cells which encircle the inner colloid space (colloid lumen). Cell surfaces facing the lumen are made up of microvilli and surfaces distal to the lumen lie in close proximity to capillaries.
The thyroid is stimulated by the pituitary hormone TSH to produce two hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3) in the presence of iodide. Hormone production proceeds by six steps:
1. Dietary iodine is transported from the capillary through the epithelial cell into the lumen.
2. Iodine is oxidized to iodide by the thyroid peroxidase enzyme (TPO) and is bound to tyrosine residues on the thyroglobulin molecule to yield monoiodotyrosine (MIT) and diiodotyrosine (DIT).
3. TPO further catalyzes the coupling of MIT and DIT moieties to form T4 and/or T3.
4. The thyroglobulin molecules carrying the hormones are taken into the epithelial cells via endocytosis in the form of colloid drops.
5. Proteolysis of the iodinated hormones from thyroglobulin takes place via protease/peptidase action in lysosomes and the hormones are released to the capillaries.
6. Any remaining uncoupled MIT or DIT is deiodinated to regenerate iodide and tyrosine residues.
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The Pituitary

The pituitary is located at the base of the brain and consists of two lobes, denoted the anterior and posterior lobes. This endocrine gland produces several metabolic hormones that direct crucial functions throughout the body, including regulation of growth, reproduction and metabolism. The pituitary is closely associated with the hypothalamus, which regulates the secretion of pituitary hormones through the release of various neurohormones.
The anterior pituitary is crucial for proper thyroid function through the production and secretion of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH). TSH secretion is positively regulated by a neurohormone known as thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH) from the hypothalamus.
The Hypothalamus

The hypothalamus is located at the base of the brain as part of the diencephalon. The hypothalamus directs many corticodiencephalic processes which coordinate peripheral autonomic mechanisms, endocrine activities and many somatic functions, including regulation of water balance, body temperature, sleep, sexual development and food intake. The hypothalamus secretes several neural hormones which regulate secretion of various pituitary hormones. The neuropeptide TRH is secreted by the hypothalamus and acts to stimulate TSH production in the anterior pituitary
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Hormones

TRH

Thyrotropin releasing hormone is produced by the hypothalamus and functions to stimulate the anterior pituitary to release TSH. TRH is a small tripeptide that acts in conjunction with somatostatin and dopamine to regulate the synthesis and release of TSH in a dose dependent manner. Dysfunction at this stage in the stimulatory cascade results in decreased TSH production and hence hypothyroidism, termed a tertiary thyroid disorder. While thyroid hormones T4 and T3 down-regulate TSH in a classic feedback inhibition scheme, TRH production is also inhibited the these thyroid hormones, albeit to a lesser degree, in the hypothalamus.
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TSH

Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) or thyrotropin is a glycoprotein with a molecular weight of approximately 28,000 daltons, synthesized by the basophilic cells (thyrotropes) of the anterior pituitary. TSH is composed of two noncovalently linked subunits designated alpha and beta. Although the alpha subunit of TSH is common to luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), the beta subunits of these glycoproteins are hormone specific and confer biological as well as immunological specificity. Both alpha and beta subunits are required for biological activity. TSH stimulates the production and secretion of the metabolically active thyroid hormones, thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3), by interacting with a specific receptor on the thyroid cell surface. T3 and T4 are responsible for regulating diverse biochemical processes throughout the body which are essential for normal development and metabolic and neural activity.
The synthesis and secretion of TSH is stimulated by the hypothalamic tripeptide thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH) in response to low levels of circulating thyroid hormones. Elevated levels of T3 and T4 suppress the production of TSH via a classic negative feedback mechanism. Recent evidence also indicates that somatostatin and dopamine exert inhibitory control over TSH release, suggesting that the hypothalamus may provide both inhibitory and stimulatory influence on pituitary TSH production. Failure at any level of regulation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis will result in either underproduction (hypothyroidism) or overproduction (hyperthyroidism) of T4 and/or T3.
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T4

[one8nine]

Thyroxine (T4) is an iodine-containing hormone which has a molecular weight of approximately 777 daltons and is secreted by the thyroid gland. T4 and its associate thyroid hormone T3 are responsible for regulating diverse biochemical processes throughout the body which are essential for normal metabolic and neural activity. Although T3 has greater biologic potency, T4 is normally present in human serum in approximately 50 fold excess of circulating T3, and accounts for more than 90 percent of the circulating protein-bound iodine. T4 is 99.9 percent bound to serum thyroxine binding proteins (TBP). The hormone is transported bound primarily to thyroxine binding globulin (TBG) and secondarily by thyroxine binding prealbumin (TBPA) and albumin. Less than 0.03 percent of the total circulating T4 is unbound and therefore biologically active.

Clinically, T4 measurements have long been recognized as an aid in the assessment and diagnosis of thyroid status. Elevated T4 values are characteristically seen in patients with overt hyperthyroidism, while T4 levels are generally depressed in patients with overt hypothyroidism. Normal T4 levels accompanied by high T3 values are seen in patients with T3-thyrotoxicosis. T4 levels are altered by physiological or pathological changes in TBP capacity. Thyroxine binding globulin (TBG) capacity has a pronounced effect on the concentration of thyroid hormones. Consequently, T4 levels may be elevated with increased concentrations of TBG, such as in pregnancy, administration of oral contraceptives or estrogen, infectious and chronic active hepatitis, biliary cirrhosis or congenital increase in TBG levels. Conversely, when TBG levels are decreased, such as in nephrotic syndrome, androgen therapy, glucocorticoid therapy, major systemic illness or congenital decrease of TBG, T4 may be reduced.
Drugs which compete for protein binding sites, such as phenylbutazone, diphenylhydantoin or salicylates, can result in a depressed T4 measurement. Serum T4 levels in neonates and infants are higher than values in the normal adult, due to the increased concentration of TBG in neonate serum. While in many cases T4 values give good indications of thyroid status, T4 values should be normalized for individual variations in thyroxine binding protein (TBP) capacity. The Free Thyroxine Index (FTI) is conventionally used to achieve this measurement. To ensure maximum diagnostic accuracy, the final definition of thyroid status should be determined in conjunction with other thyroid function tests such as TSH, FT4, Total T3, FTI and clinical evaluation by the physician.
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T3

Triiodothyronine (T3) was first identified in human serum in 1952 by Gross and Pitt-Rivers. Since that time, the physiologic effects of T3 have been widely investigated and appreciation of its clinical significance has greatly increased. T3 and its associate thyroid hormone, thyroxine (T4), are responsible for regulating diverse biochemical processes throughout the body which are essential for normal development and metabolic and neural activity. T3 has a molecular weight of 651 daltons and contains 58 percent iodine. The majority of serum T3 is derived enzymatically from 5?-deiodination of T4 in the peripheral tissues rather than directly from the thyroid. Approximately one-third of all T4 secreted is deiodinated to yield T3. T3 is bound to thyroxine binding globulin (TBG), prealbumin and albumin. The actual distribution of T3 among these binding proteins is controversial as estimates range from 38 percent to 80 percent for TBG, 9 percent to 27 percent for prealbumin and 11 percent to 35 percent for albumin. The binding of these proteins is such that only 0.2 percent to 0.4 percent of the total T3 is present in solution as unbound or free T3 (FT3). This free fraction represents the physiologically active thyroid hormone. There is evidence that T3 is the metabolically active hormone with T4 serving as a "prohormone" for T3 just as thyroglobulin is for T4. The metabolic effectiveness of T4 is decreased by agents that inhibit T3 formation, indicating that much of the T4 activity stems from formation of T3. This is further supported by the differences in TBG binding affinity and half-life. T4 has a half-life of 6.7 days while T3 has a half-life in serum of only 1.5 days. It has become apparent in recent years that T3 plays an important role in the maintenance of the euthyroid state.

Serum T3 measurements can be a valuable component of a thyroid screening panel in diagnosing certain disorders of thyroid function, as well as conditions caused by iodide deficiency. Clinically, measurements of serum T3 concentration are especially valuable in diagnosing hyperthyroidism and in following the course of therapy for this disorder. Under conditions of strong thyroid stimulation, the T3 measurement provides a good estimation of thyroid reserve. Recognition of a thyroid dysfunction called T3-thyrotoxicosis, associated with an increased serum T3 level but normal T4, free T4 and in vitro Uptake results have further highlighted the importance of serum Total T3 measurements. Dietary iodide deficiency results in inadequate production of thyroid hormones despite the presence of normal thyroid tissue. In these cases, the serum T4 concentration is often low while the TSH concentration is elevated. Elevated TSH associated with low T4 is normally indicative of hypothyroidism. However, in iodine deficiency, these results together with a normal or slightly elevated serum T3 are indicative of euthyroid status in most individuals.
T3 levels are also affected by conditions which affect TBG concentration. Slightly elevated T3 levels may occur in pregnancy or during estrogen therapy. Depressed levels may occur during severe illness, malnutrition, in renal failure and during therapy with the antithyroid drugs propranolol, propylthiouracil and salicylates. In patients with severe or chronic illnesses, many abnormalities of thyroid hormone balance occur. T4 production and the extent of serum thyroid hormone binding may be independently abnormal, resulting in low, normal or high free T4 estimate. Serum T3 concentrations are often low; TSH levels may be normal or slightly elevated. Total T3 measurements may be valuable when hyperthyroidism is suspected and the free T4 estimate is normal.
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For More Information
? American Thyroid Association
? Thyroid Foundation of Canada
? National Graves' Disease Foundation
? Gland Central
? American Association of Clinical Chemistry (Clinical Chemistry Journal)
? The Endocrine Society
? CLIANet (Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments)
? NCCLS (National Committee for Clinical Laboratory Standards)
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[1bebigger]

one8one- weres the cliffs?


haha, good read.

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Originally Posted by one8nine

1 - As seen on www.youtube.com HGH can be used on daily basis wether you train or not. Is this true?



2 - In bodybuilding terms, Will the HGH effect "fat loss" still take place if I ate BIG but clean?



3 - Should I do cycles or can I just use it forever?



4 - What is best recommended, daily basis supply or every other day?



5 - Dosage required?



You may take a look at my ****ty and crappy diet and give advise as well (cutting phase).







this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas
Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc?s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu?s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.


Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.


How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

Thanks for the great info brother.. really appreciated.

[one8nine]

Originally Posted by 1bebigger

one8one- weres the cliffs?


haha, good read.

im only 1/2 way through myself haha
just started lookin into hgh, thats why i had all the info saved

[strength77]

Originally Posted by 1bebigger

looks like the diet of a concentration camp prisoner

ROFLMAO

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Well, this will be the last question I ask about the HGH for sure! I'm planning to re arrange my meals and eat BIG but CLEAN, so will the HGH still show the cutting effects?

Any advice nutrition wise, splitting doses and how much, best timing or any helpful tips from users with experience is much appreciated and thank you again.

[DjJAN]

How much are u planning to use and for how long..I used 4IU/day for 3 months and I didnt see anything from it..I had the same results with a previous cutting cycle with just test + tren..For ur age GH doesnt worth the money,is not a miracle drug or something....In ur place I was going to spend my money on test and a lot of tren than on GH..

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Well, thanks for the reply. I can run it for years and I have no money issues, and for all other stuff you're talking about is out of reach except ANADROL 50mg tabs which I can get my hands on. So what do you think? any ideas? Much appreciated.

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Following to my previous post, my concern is actually to eat carbs but the good ones with low GI of course, I love them. Will I get that roundy face, and get bloated again?

I'm planning to split doses up to 2 times a day.. 6iu each and timing is 5:00 am and 5:00 pm.

[DjJAN]

So ur planning to use 12IU day??

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Yup.. I will be eating a lot of carbs as well!

[DjJAN]

Do u know that u have to use insulin also if u are going to use more than 6IU day??..From what i know u will need a combination of GH+Slin+T3/T4 + Test.. I hope someone can give u more details..

[FLEX_da_REMIX]

Well, can I have my desired amounts of carbs if using only 6ui a day?

[one8nine]

Originally Posted by FLEX_da_REMIX

Well, can I have my desired amounts of carbs if using only 6ui a day?

are you avoiding using insulin and t3?

[fallenursus]

so you have money to spend on hgh but no way of getting test? what gives..?
if i was you, i'd try some uhm''regular gear''(test,dbol..whatever ..but always with test)dont touch a-bombs without the test! I would w8 couple of good years before thinking hgh...and yeah..EAT man!
the decision is your at the end anyways, only my 2cents

[GHMAYHEM]

Originally Posted by one8nine

1 - As seen on www.youtube.com HGH can be used on daily basis wether you train or not. Is this true?



2 - In bodybuilding terms, Will the HGH effect "fat loss" still take place if I ate BIG but clean?



3 - Should I do cycles or can I just use it forever?



4 - What is best recommended, daily basis supply or every other day?



5 - Dosage required?



You may take a look at my ****ty and crappy diet and give advise as well (cutting phase).







this is an article on GH i have been working on, it takes all the advice from the top vets on GH and has been thoroughly checked and also provides citings so u can look at the info and studies urself if u want. this was made to benefit all who are looking into starting GH or need basic info on it. i am not trying to take credit for it since most of the ideas in here are either common knowledge or by MOD or Ironmaster, this is only till ironmaster can get a book out with all his info on it. If anyone has anything ot add to it please do so, its only to help out hte iron brotherhood, enjoy, and merry xmas
Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc?s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu?s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.


Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.


How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

well said i started 3 weeks ago

[GHMAYHEM]

Originally Posted by one8nine

im only 1/2 way through myself haha
just started lookin into hgh, thats why i had all the info saved

great info ,and gh is awesome 2nd time i do it i got myself 6 kits for now!!

[nolanchee]

Thanks bro,

For that infos.....I hope to enter Mr.Asia in a couple of years.

Cheers

[malkulmx]

Originally Posted by DjJAN

How much are u planning to use and for how long..I used 4IU/day for 3 months and I didnt see anything from it..I had the same results with a previous cutting cycle with just test + tren..For ur age GH doesnt worth the money,is not a miracle drug or something....In ur place I was going to spend my money on test and a lot of tren than on GH..

Thats depend to the HGH manufacturer. cheap kind like Jin made in china is not as efficient as a product like Norditropin. Nordi is absolutely amazing even at low dose (4iu. ED 5/2) of course it s not the same price.