Bango Skank F#cks With 5x5

[bango skank]

Don't f#ck with [5x5]. Every bodybuilder seems to have Attention Deficit Disorder and
an overwhelming desire to customize everything. The bottom line is that these are
all the most effective exercises and just about anything one does will result in less gains.
-Madcow



Write-Up

Monday – Heavy
Squat – 5 sets of 5
Press – 5 sets of 5
Powerclean – 5 sets of 5
Heavy Met-Con - 5-10 min.

Sets 1-4 = 50, 63, 75, 88% of Top Set
Top Set = 102.5% of Previous 5RM

Wednesday – Light
Squat – 4 sets of 5
Dips – 4 sets of 5
Pull-Ups – 4 sets of 5
Heavy Met-Con - <5 min.

Squat Sets 1-2 = 50, 63% of Monday's Top Set
Squat Sets 3-4 = 75% of Monday's Top Set
All Other Sets 1-3 = 63, 75, 88% of Top Set
All Other Top Sets = 102.5% of Previous 5RM

Friday - Medium
Squat – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, 1 set of 8
Press – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple, 1 set of 8
Powerclean – 4 sets of 5, 1 triple
Row - 1 set of 8
Heavy Met-Con - 5-10 min.

Sets 1-4 = 49, 61, 73, 85%
Top Set (Triple) = 102.5% of Monday's Top Set
Set of 8 = Weight from 3rd set

Saturday - Optional
Light Met-Con - 10-15 min. or Active Recovery.
Running, swimming, rowing, biking, and jump rope can all be rotated.
Steady state or HIIT are acceptable.
If I'm feeling burned I'll take the day off or go for a walk.

Comments

As you can see, I substituted:
Standing Press for Bench Press
Cleans for Rows
Dips for Incline Press
Pull-Ups for Deadlifts
Heavy Metcons for Assistance work.

The other change was, with Power Cleans in the original program no back off sets were done on Friday, so I subbed in Rows 1x8 instead for a little extra volume.

The spirit of the routine is essentially the same but I'm focusing on my weak points that I want to improve most. I feel that my Standing Press and Power Clean are lagging the most, and that everything needs to catch up to my deadlift. I have a max squat of 345 and a max deadlift of 455... I worry about my squat being so far behind, so I'm willing to ignore deadlifts for the moment. The original program didn't have any deadlifting either.

As for subbing in dips... bench pressing for me feels unnatural. If I bench without assistance I burn myself out unracking the bar, if I bench with assistance they always want to "buddy lift." It's the most dangerous exercise and my least favorite. I find myself stronger when it comes to dips and I find them more practical, so there ya go.

I am putting a lighter pushing movement (Press) on the heavy days and a heavier pushing movement (Dips) on the light day... but that should be offset by the removal of the really heavy pulling movement (Deadlifts) for a lighter pulling movement (Pull-ups) on the light days, so the weekly volume shouldn't be too screwy as compared to Starr's or Madcow's programs, but I've made contingency's for when and if my lifts begin to stall.

I anticipate that my Standing Press will stall first, at which point I'll move it back to Wednesday's workout and switch Dips to Monday/Friday. I'm not too worried about the other substitutions stalling prematurely... I know MadCow is famous for saying not to fornicate with the program, but that's exactly what he did and it worked out okay... and besides I think he was more worried about somebody subbing in leg press and leg curls, not subbing pull-ups for deadlifts (which he had in turn subbed for high pulls).

The other major change is subbing in heavy met-cons for assistance work. I'll quote Gant Grimes for what I'm expecting of my met-cons:

Metcon should be short and intense. Keep it under 10 minutes (usually under 5). Keep it heavy, and keep it functional. Select workouts that require very little rest. This is key to the neuroendocrine response we’re looking for. Use KB’s, tires, farming implements, stones, boat chains, and sledgehammers liberally. Row and Sprint often (Tabatas, 100s, 200s, 400s). Full body exercises (cleans, thrusters, swings) are great. Use couplets and triplets. NO chipper workouts.

Most met-cons will comprise of deadlifts, bodyweight pull-ups, barbell thrusters, handstand push-ups, high pulls and the like. I'll switch it up so that there is plenty of variety in the workouts. You can see many examples of potential met-cons here.

Progression



This is the template I'll be following until I stall.
Estimated 5RM's are revisited in wk. 4.
I'll round all ramped sets to the nearest 5 lb increment and use microweights for the top set.

Current 1RM's in lbs. (as of 10/1/08)

Squat: 345
Press: 160
Power Clean: 190
Chin-Up: 227*
Dips: 243*

*Includes bodyweight

Links

5x5 Calculator: http://www.vicjg.com/aspx/madcowint.aspx
Bill Starr's Power Routine (Original 5x5): http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength...s/manrodt4.htm
MadCow's Intermediate 5x5: http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...Linear_5x5.htm
Heavy Met-Cons: http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=35062

[Panacea.]

curious bango
what are your goals? occupation? etc

[bango skank]

curious bango
what are your goals? occupation? etc

My goals change, but they are whatever will prepare me for the oncoming apocalypse. I'm half serious about this.

Specifically:

Cardiovascular/Respiratory Endurance
Stamina
Strength
Flexibility
Power
Speed
Coordination
Agility
Balance
Accuracy

If those goals look familiar it's because I stole them from Crossfit.

The whole reason I ever started down this path though stems from when I quit smoking. I simply needed something to fill the void that my cessation had left behind, something that would take advantage of the benefits of said cessation. One addiction transformed into another I guess, lol.

Occupation? I'm an out of work English teacher, but since intimidation and brutality isn't a useful educational tactic (usually), strength doesn't directly come into play there (usually).

And Welcome to Thunderdome!

[vicjg]

This looks veeery interesting. Nice calculator.

[bango skank]

Nice calculator.

yeah, it's the best I had to work with.

[bango skank]

Week One - Heavy Day

Back Squat
5x145
5x180
5x215
5x250
5x285

Press
5x65
5x80
5x100
5x115
5x132

Power Cleans
5x80
5x100
5x115
5x140
5x157

Met-Con
15-12-9
Deadlift 225#
Handstand Push-Ups

Time: 10:00 (Scaled for rounds)

Comments

Fast: 15 hrs pre-workout

Back Squats: I recently got a new (used) pair of weightlifting shoes with a lesser heel than on my Do-Wins. They're actually a vintage pair of Adidas Weightlifting Shoes that I've never seen before. They were great, but several times throughout the workout I found my weight drifting back on my heels, throwing my balance off a bit. This is just something I'll have to readjust to. Last set was heavy, weight slowed significantly, but I had it. I just hope 4 weeks is enough. Rested about 2:30-3:00 minutes before top set, only a brief pause to draw breath between reps.

Press: Again, last set was heavy and slow, but I had it. I rested about 3 minutes before the top set and all reps were unbroken (no breaths between reps).

Power Cleans: These were pretty solid. Great height on the pc's, didn't even need to sissy squat. Rested about 2 mins before the top set.

Met-Con: Only was able to complete the first 2 rounds. Deadlifts were unbroken, handstand pushups were more like 7-3-2-2-1. Huffin and puffin. I'm pretty impressed with my hspu's since I haven't trained them consistently in almost a year. I'm pretty sure my personal best on those was 7 reps at a lower bodyweight, so that's pretty great.

Bottom Line: Off to a good start!

[bango skank]

Week One - Light Day

Back Squat
5x145
5x180
5x215
5x215

Dips
5x127 (BW-40)
5x147 (BW-20)
5x174.5 (BW+7.5)
5x202 (BW+35)

Pull-Ups
5x117 (BW-50)
5x137 (BW-30)
5x167 (BW)
5x187 (BW+20)

Met-Con
Max rounds in 5 min. of:

15 Squats
10 Push-Ups
5 Pull-Ups

Score: 5 Rounds + 5 Squats (80 Squats, 50 Push-Ups, 25 Pull-Ups)

Comments

Fast: 18 hrs pre-workout

Back Squats: Balance was better than on Monday.

Dips: I used the Gravitron to reduce the bodyweight. It's not perfect, but it worked for its' intended purpose. Soooo much better than the bench press.

Pull-Ups: Just like the dips.

Met-Con: It's no coincidence that the WOD mimicked the strength workout. It didn't seem to have much of a detrimental effect. I was pretty smoked though after 5 minutes, lol.

Bottom Line: Still goin' strong!

[bango skank]

[tattoojay]

ok, i'll bite dude. learn me in the ways of met con. what is it. why should i do it. yea i know i could google it, but you have such great forum etiquette youll do a great write up for it.

[Panacea.]

ok, i'll bite dude. learn me in the ways of met con. what is it. why should i do it. yea i know i could google it, but you have such great forum etiquette youll do a great write up for it.

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=35062

[tattoojay]

Occupation? I'm an out of work English teacher, but since intimidation and brutality isn't a useful educational tactic (usually), strength doesn't directly come into play there (usually).

i have a 4k word foreign policy research paper due in 28 days for my english comp class. mla. 10 sources in works cited. help me out.

[tattoojay]

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=35062

that was quite possibly the fastest reply ever

[bango skank]

ok, i'll bite dude. learn me in the ways of met con. what is it. why should i do it. yea i know i could google it, but you have such great forum etiquette youll do a great write up for it.

TJ! Wassuuuuuuuuup?!

You should know by now that I have nothing original to say, and that everything worthwhile that I do say I probably stole from somebaody smarter.

Met-cons: http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=3854&page=1

Basically, metcon is cardio... but less gay.

[bango skank]

i have a 4k word foreign policy research paper due in 28 days for my english comp class. mla. 10 sources in works cited. help me out.

I teach English as a foreign language. If your paper was on finding a bathroom in a train station, I'd have you covered.

[tattoojay]

lol, oh. my kid started kindegarten this year. i was shocked to find out that there is a class called 'english as a 2nd language'.

[bango skank]

lol, oh. my kid started kindegarten this year. i was shocked to find out that there is a class called 'english as a 2nd language'.

lol, don't be surprised. Fun fact: In Mexico kindergarten is called "jardin de ninos," or "Child Garden."

[tattoojay]

yeah but in america? since when did english become the SECOND spoken language? maybe i dont get out enough...

[bango skank]

yeah but in america? since when did english become the SECOND spoken language? maybe i dont get out enough...

America has no official national language. Melting pot, bro.

Oh, I think I see what you mean. The class is offered to those who come from other countries and thus have a native language other than English (Spanish, Arabic, German, Swahili, etc). For them English is a 2nd language. For example, when I first moved to Mexico I essentially took "Spanish as a 2nd Language."

Your kid isn't taking that class are they?

[vicjg]

ESL FTMFW!

Nice squatting on Day 1.

No bench at all huh?

[bango skank]

Nice squatting on Day 1.

Thankee!

No bench at all huh?

I'm a renegade. Besides... as I've seen from so many others, continued progress in benching eventually leads to doing umpteen accessory exercises (floor presses, board presses, db/incline/decline presses) to make it go anywhere. And then once you do get good at it? You have torn pecs and ruined rotator cuffs to look forward to. No thanks, I'd rather survive getting shot in the face than put that much time into an exercise that I don't have any particular use for.

/rant

[tattoojay]

true, i understand there is no official language of america, but it seems to me that our schools should be teacing english as the PRIMARY language not second...anyway, i dont want to turn your w/o log into a debate. metcon looks cool, i will read more on it :thumbsup:

edit: no, my daughter isnt taking it.

[vicjg]

true, i understand there is no official language of america, but it seems to me that our schools should be teacing english as the PRIMARY language not second...anyway, i dont want to turn your w/o log into a debate. metcon looks cool, i will read more on it :thumbsup:

edit: no, my daughter isnt taking it.

The first language is the language of the country they were born. its for foreign born students/adults.

[bango skank]

true, i understand there is no official language of america, but it seems to me that our schools should be teacing english as the PRIMARY language not second...anyway, i dont want to turn your w/o log into a debate.

edit: no, my daughter isnt taking it.

No, it's cool. I enjoy this sort of thing.

I hear ya, but ESL doesn't mean that English is 2nd in importance nor that they will continue learning their 1st language primarily. ESL exists b/c the methods for teaching someone a 2nd language differ entirely from someone learning a first language... No one is "taught" their first language in an academic sense, we just learn it because our brains develop in an environment where they are immersed with language via listening and watching. Nobody sits down with a 1 year old and teaches them vowels and consonants, that's not how a 1 year old brain learns.

Now "English class" as it is taught to natives is mostly about writing and reading, not speaking. In contrast to this, "English" as it must be taught to non-natives is more about speaking, and secondarily about reading and writing. This is a crucial difference between the two. If you took a non-native speaker and dropped them into a native English class they would be completely lost, because English classes don't teach you how to speak English, they presume that you already can. Because of the way that language is assimilated the only possible way for foreigners to learn English as a 1st Language, would be to brainwash the native language from their head, lol.

What I'm saying is it is impossible for a 2nd language to be learned as if it were a 1st language because of the way the brain develops... the only way that this would be possible is if a child grew up in a dual language household... and even then they would have two 1st languages and any subsequent languages would have to be learned as a "2nd language."

metcon looks cool, i will read more on it :thumbsup:

Cool beans.

[67629]

I'll follow along because I'm planning on doing this program (with different fornications) after I'm done with SS.

I liked your 10x3 journal, so I think I'm going to do that first. That thread has died, so I'm going to ask in here: how many calories were you eating? You lost a lot of body fat, but IIRC, you actually gained a fraction of a pound.

[bango skank]

I'll follow along because I'm planning on doing this program (with different fornications) after I'm done with SS.

I liked your 10x3 journal, so I think I'm going to do that first. That thread has died, so I'm going to ask in here: how many calories were you eating? You lost a lot of body fat, but IIRC, you actually gained a fraction of a pound.

Thanks for following along!

I can only count with my fingers, so consequently I never count more than 12 calories at any given time. (eh?)

Instead I put my effort into food selection, mindfulness of "fullness," and eating windows (4-7 hours) because I fast 15-19 hours, 4-5 days out of the week.

[67629]

Poo. Can't even ballpark it? I'm in desparate need to lose fat (I'm probably at about 20-23%), but the last time I toned down the calories (not even by that much), I completely ruined the progress on my squat, so I refuse to eat less until I'm off SS. I think I've still got a few weeks before I'll need to make the switch, but I want the details ironed out before I begin. I was thinking about 2500 (bw x 15 - 500), but I was curious what you were getting.

[bango skank]

Poo. Can't even ballpark it? I'm in desparate need to lose fat (I'm probably at about 20-23%), but the last time I toned down the calories (not even by that much), I completely ruined the progress on my squat, so I refuse to eat less until I'm off SS. I think I've still got a few weeks before I'll need to make the switch, but I want the details ironed out before I begin. I was thinking about 2500 (bw x 15 - 500), but I was curious what you were getting.

Well, even if I could, the amount of calories I ate wouldn't really help you. And I really have no idea how many I ate... I would have to sit down and calculate it for myself and that sounds so depressing I'd prolly just give up eating altogether.

If you want to go the calorie counting route, then you'll be pleased to know that you have the right idea. I'm guessing that 15 cals. x bw, for you, is about maintenance level. Subtract 500 per day to lose a lb per week, as the reasoning goes. The main thing is to keep weighing yourself to make sure you're not losing too much weight, and to consistently readjust your weight loss formula (15 x bw - 500) as your bw drops. In other words you'll have to constantly tweak it. If you want to get really detailed, and you prolly should, don't just pay attention to cals, but to macronutrient ratios. I suggest a ratio of 40/30/30 for CHO/PRO/FAT. And make sure you're getting ~1 g. of pro. per lb of bodyweight.

[67629]

I'm so into diet, I eat the same damn things every day just so I know for sure what I'm getting. There is just one meal a day that I don't have planned for just in case I go out with buddies and to give at least some variety.

That macro ratio is very close to what I strive for, and I get about 1.2x my bodyweight in grams of protein. Thanks for the advice.

[zephed56]

One original idea I've come up with (lol) is to make the light day exercises like squats/cleans also more of a metcon workout. I'm not doing bench presses either right now, so when it's light press day (I chose push press or jerks), I combine power cleans and push presses and do a certain number of reps for time.

But I assume on wednesday your dips and pullups are heavy so maybe that's not such a good idea. What about a barbell complex instead of light squats on wednesday?

Anyways, that's all, just had a couple ideas for you.

[bango skank]

One original idea I've come up with (lol) is to make the light day exercises like squats/cleans also more of a metcon workout. I'm not doing bench presses either right now, so when it's light press day (I chose push press or jerks), I combine power cleans and push presses and do a certain number of reps for time.

But I assume on wednesday your dips and pullups are heavy so maybe that's not such a good idea. What about a barbell complex instead of light squats on wednesday?

Anyways, that's all, just had a couple ideas for you.

lol, are these ideas for me or for you?

Dips and pull-ups are heavy, yeah, but I'm not doing deadlifts, so the volume shouldn't be too heavy overall.