Ratios on The Keto Diet

[driven1]

Hi All,

I have a question that I;'m hoping for some guidance on. I've been keto-ing for about a month. I went through the 12 day start up phase on fairly high calories (but did not gain weight) as recommended in the book by Dr. Di Pasquale.

My ratios on the start up phase were about 65% fat, 30% protein and about 4-5% carbs.

Now that I am trying to cut, what should my ratios look like?? The book is pretty unclear about that... what is the absolute minimum of fat that you can have in the diet?

What ratios are working best for you folks? I've left my ratios the same, but have cut my calories...

[gecko...]

I think you are on the right track by cutting your overall calories but keeping the ratios the same. You shouldnt take protein below one gram per pound of lean body mass. . .

hehe - but I'm very new to this. . I researched all day yesterday and I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere

[Lemonzest]

The same 65/30/5 ratios are used for cutting, just lower the cals for cutting

[startrek]

If you hit a plateau that lasts, say, more than a week, you might even try increasing your fat intake. It works for a lot of people, including me.

[driven1]

What about this scenario... what I am seeing now is that if I keep my ratios at 65-30-5, I am consuming less than 1 gram per pound of body weight. Or.... does thus only apply to lean body mass?? In that case, I'm doing OK for protein...

[startrek]

Exactly right. Protein intake is based on lean body mass, because it's your lean tissue that needs to be maintained. Fat requires no maintenance, so you ignore it for the purpose of calculating how much protein you need.

So, if you weight 250 lbs. and have 8% bodyfat, you need more protein than someone who weighs 250 lbs. and has 14% bodyfat.

[driven1]

Thanks Startrek, that has always been a source of some confusion for me. Here's another question along the same line, hopefully someone can explain...

Once we have gone through the start-up phase and have made the metabolic shift to burning fat for energy, it makes sense that we would need to reduce the amount of dietary fat that we consume so that the body has to turn to our stored fats for energy.

So, how will keeping dietary fats high while trying to cut help to burn off stored fat?

I'm getting confused....

[gecko...]

thats something I'm confused about as well. . .

[crossus]

work out will create calories deficit ...good cals deficit is around 300-500
It's recomendet that you carb up every week ,I don't - none the less Im doing only moderate work out and have high activities level through out the day.
My way is perhabs not the optimal for cutting but im losing around 2 lbs per week, at first I was losin around 1lb per day but lately 2lbs per week is satisfactory . IHave good energy level .
Do mind My focus is on losing weight ,since May 15 Ihave lost 90lbs and feel better than ever.

[gecko...]

90lbs since May! Thats amazing effort!

Thankyou for clearing that up - I was wondering what would happen if you didnt carb up. . I'm still deciding.

[CanuckTank]

Keeping your ratios while cutting calories is your best bet.

I would highly consider a 1700cal diet for cutting.

[Atavis]

Originally Posted by driven1

Once we have gone through the start-up phase and have made the metabolic shift to burning fat for energy, it makes sense that we would need to reduce the amount of dietary fat that we consume so that the body has to turn to our stored fats for energy.

So, how will keeping dietary fats high while trying to cut help to burn off stored fat?

I'm getting confused....

As you become fat adapted, which can take 6 weeks or more, you can experiment with lowering your fat intake. Do not let it go below 40% though.

Exception: a PSMF, Velocity diet, or diet of that nature. Which are extremely effective if you are fat adapted.

[copperred]

Hi guys,

Hoping someone here can point me in the right direction.

I am hoping to restart the keto diet soon but I am not very confident when it comes to ratio calculations etc.

Does anyone know where I can get some help with this online?

Or even a keto guide for dummies so to speak.

I have tried the keto before but don't think i was getting the protein to fat ratio correct.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[driven1]

This is all fantastic advice! Thanks to all... I'm on 1800 calories right now, so I will whittle that down to the 1700 that CanuckTank suggests.

But, all of this great feedback is making me think of more questions!

How do you know if you are fat adapted if it can take up to 6 weeks? I had a carb up meal (I only do the one meal) on Saturday evening and all day Monday seemed to have the "classic headache", just like I had during the start up phase.

Is it possible that I shifted back to burning carbs with one meal?? I had a burger (NOT a fast food burger... a nice restaurant one) with fries and coleslaw. I had a small piece of fudge (1.5 ounce) some chocolate covered cashews and a Slurpee.... this took about 3 hours to consume... could that have done it, or was this just an unexplained headache?

[New_York]

Originally Posted by startrek

Exactly right. Protein intake is based on lean body mass, because it's your lean tissue that needs to be maintained. Fat requires no maintenance, so you ignore it for the purpose of calculating how much protein you need.

So, if you weight 250 lbs. and have 8% bodyfat, you need more protein than someone who weighs 250 lbs. and has 14% bodyfat.

This man knows what he's talking about.

[crossus]

Originally Posted by driven1

This is all fantastic advice! Thanks to all... I'm on 1800 calories right now, so I will whittle that down to the 1700 that CanuckTank suggests.

But, all of this great feedback is making me think of more questions!

How do you know if you are fat adapted if it can take up to 6 weeks? I had a carb up meal (I only do the one meal) on Saturday evening and all day Monday seemed to have the "classic headache", just like I had during the start up phase.

Is it possible that I shifted back to burning carbs with one meal?? I had a burger (NOT a fast food burger... a nice restaurant one) with fries and coleslaw. I had a small piece of fudge (1.5 ounce) some chocolate covered cashews and a Slurpee.... this took about 3 hours to consume... could that have done it, or was this just an unexplained headache?

/6 weeks? /

Im not sure if we are on the same page here but as far I know it takes 2 days to shock your system in to Ketosis. In any case get "KETOSTIX" you can get them at any drug store ,it's a urine test quite simple similar to pregnancy test .The way it works is You aither are in Ketosis / ketons in the urine/ or not.

Don't concern yourself with the levels of Ketons, this will change dependant on time of test how much liquids you consume and other factors. Also each person have diffrent ability to burn ketons so test results will very.

One word of warning If you are diebetes or prone to it ,be extremly carefull with Ketosis, on reare ocasions your blood pH level could go of chart and you will develop KETOACIDOSIS a harmfull condition /hm... if comes to think of it another reasons for carbing up/ , But healthy individuals are at minimum risk.

/IMO/- it's ok to stick to your ratios but I wouldn't breaking it up in to a science ,on the long run it could become to much of a task and chore and end up sabotage your motivation, unless you don't getting ready for some competition where time frame and fat% is a factor simply stay away from carbs consume good fats and carb up from time to time , leave your self some space for dining out or have that cheat meal from time to time as long you are able to keep this in check you will be doing just fine.

BTW nice pic for 40 you look like a amazon.

[Babbs]

She is taking about fat adaption, a stage much later in Keto when your body is burning fat for fuel much more efficiently than early stages of Keto. I'm not expert on it but apparantly things really start rocking once you become fat adapted.

[Atavis]

Correct. Ketosis is not fat adaptation.

[driven1]

Does anyone know how to tell if you are fat adapted?? I've been on the keto diet now for exactly one month. In total I've lost only about 2 pounds. I've been really accurate with my ratios, and use software to track it. I weigh and measure everything... no guesswork... I'm on 1800 calories a day, which really should be sufficient for weight loss, according to all calculations...

Are there any "symptoms" of being fat adapted? How do you know when you are adapted?

I limit my carb ups to 1 meal per week, and I try to keep it somewhat decent... for instance, a restaurant burger with fries would be my cheat meal... no dessert at the restaurant, but I might have one or two chocolate bars instead. Even this will cause me to gain about 3 pounds. Those 3 pounds will stick around for about 4 days!!! It takes me about 3 days to register ketones after a carb up meal.

I'm lifting on a four day split and doing both LISS and HIIT cardio.

I feel good... lots of energy, but was hoping to see a bit better loss than this... is this normal at only a month in? When do I start seeing the fabulous fat loss?

gettin' frustrated...

[startrek]

You know you're fat adapted if eating a bite of cake results in projectile vomiting.

No, just kidding. I actually don't know how to tell. If there was some change in my body as I went from ketosis to fat adaptation, I didn't notice it. Unless it was just feeling more energetic, sleeping better, etc. But those were gradual changes over several months, and I attributed them to generally being healthier and less heavy.

[Atavis]

Sigh...

Forest vs. Trees

Also, if you are not losing fat you need to create a deeper caloric deficit.

[JDabomb]

Originally Posted by startrek

You know you're fat adapted if eating a bite of cake results in projectile vomiting.

No, just kidding. I actually don't know how to tell. If there was some change in my body as I went from ketosis to fat adaptation, I didn't notice it. Unless it was just feeling more energetic, sleeping better, etc. But those were gradual changes over several months, and I attributed them to generally being healthier and less heavy.

I LOVE THIS DIET!!!

[driven1]

LOL! OK, got it... cake, projectile vomiting. I'll just stay with what I am doing... I'll see how the weight loss looks this week, and start skimming more calories if I don't get at least 1.5 pounds this week.

[crossus]

Perhabs it's not the fat lost but water retention that hinters your results. There is lots good supplaments for water retention reduction, despite the effects aren't permanent, you would deffinetly notice waight loss and much better deffinition, something to consider few weeks before competition less asure.

In addition are you a fast or slow oxidiser ? Fast oxidisers have better results on Keto.



And thanks for the fat adoption info Im on keto for about 4 months now and carb up only every 2nd week /if at all/, I feel much better with out carbs.

[gecko...]

I think after this amount of time you should lower your calories if you arent losing much fat yet. I'm on 1800 at the moment (I'm your height but a bit lighter) but I think I will move to 1600 or lower because to be honest - I'm not very hungry. . . for the first time ever lol.

[crossus]

Originally Posted by spark84

I think after this amount of time you should lower your calories if you arent losing much fat yet. I'm on 1800 at the moment (I'm your height but a bit lighter) but I think I will move to 1600 or lower because to be honest - I'm not very hungry. . . for the first time ever lol.

yeah not hungry no craveings I eat because i should lol.

I have around 250 cals meal every 3 houers given or taken all sums up to around 1000 - 1200 cals per day.
I really could go with 800 cals per day but sometimes I just pig out and have extra snack lol

[Veeno]

Originally Posted by startrek

Exactly right. Protein intake is based on lean body mass, because it's your lean tissue that needs to be maintained. Fat requires no maintenance, so you ignore it for the purpose of calculating how much protein you need.

So, if you weight 250 lbs. and have 8% bodyfat, you need more protein than someone who weighs 250 lbs. and has 14% bodyfat.

BAH, if only more people put something worth repping up, I'd be able to rep you again trek. Great job of clearing things up as usual.