Clean Food

jixsumo · 11-09-2008, 11:18 AM

I need to get my diet in order. This is my one weak spot.

I need help with my diet. I can either eat to train the way I want, or I can diet to lose the fat that I have. I really cant do both at the same time.

I think if I come up with a cleaner diet, I can properly balance the two needs - muscle gain and fat loss.

I am 6'2 and 370. I started out a lot bigger last December, at 430 pounds.

The hard gainers can easily get all kinds of advice on how to train and eat. But the other side of the scale, the hard loser is not covered. I am not a Jenny Craig, or Nutrisystem kind of guy. That little amount of food does not cover the way I like to train. Its not enough calories.

When I train hard enough to burn all the calories I have eaten, I love it. But I am so tired after the pump fades, that I wonder why do I do this to myself. I do work out in the middle of the day, so I am finally exhausted when my day ends and I go home and sleep.

I am just frustrated and feeling some angst.

Its SUNDAY! Time to go do RDL's!!!!

JC480 · 11-09-2008, 11:25 AM

Hi Jix

Great job on your weight loss and getting into a workout routine. And yeah...90% of building muscle/losing fat is in the kitchen. The rest is the gym & your attitude.

There's alot of people here who have successfully done what you are working towards. If you have specific questions about foods or what you can substitute/when etc that would be a good place to start...just a suggestion : )

DarinK · 11-09-2008, 11:33 AM

Good job on your weight loss jixsumo. Are you cutting too many calories? When I am cutting I can't train quite the way I want to either. But I do the best I can until I am finished my cut. The key is to not cut so many calories that you are so exhausted and have so little energy that it becomes a serious problem. You have to find through trial and error the correct amount of calories that enables you to get a decent workout and still lose fat.

sactown · 11-09-2008, 12:01 PM

Although you have a rather substantial undertaking in progress, you also have as much potential as anyone on these boards. As far as bodybuilding goes, I would rather be a hard loser than a hard gainer. Think of yourself as a sculptor with a huge mass of granite for you to sculpt any damn way you please.

If you are lifting competitively, you can' t change that, but if not, you might want to cut back on the deadlifts, as they make you "HUNGRY".

The most major thing body fat wise is to get carbohydrates under control. Begin with no carbs after 8 P.M., then eliminate all food with processed, white flour. Eating whole foods is MAJOR, cuz you can keep your mass, but drop fat.

If you think it can't be done, just track my progress pics big homie. I'll be putting them up this week.

I'm a big dawg, too and I too have a long way to go, but this is now my lifestyle. I done pushed in all my chips.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jixsumo

I need to get my diet in order. This is my one weak spot.

I need help with my diet. I can either eat to train the way I want, or I can diet to lose the fat that I have. I really cant do both at the same time.

I think if I come up with a cleaner diet, I can properly balance the two needs - muscle gain and fat loss.

I am 6'2 and 370. I started out a lot bigger last December, at 430 pounds.

The hard gainers can easily get all kinds of advice on how to train and eat. But the other side of the scale, the hard loser is not covered. I am not a Jenny Craig, or Nutrisystem kind of guy. That little amount of food does not cover the way I like to train. Its not enough calories.

When I train hard enough to burn all the calories I have eaten, I love it. But I am so tired after the pump fades, that I wonder why do I do this to myself. I do work out in the middle of the day, so I am finally exhausted when my day ends and I go home and sleep.

I am just frustrated and feeling some angst.

Its SUNDAY! Time to go do RDL's!!!!

pmartel · 11-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Agreed with all.

At one point I was weighing over 200lbs for my.

Various weightloss things I did my self & bottomed out at 128lbs.

Started working out in my mid-40's and average about 155lbs of decent body weight & now working out at my gym at work.

I've been wonderfully encouraged by those as I'm hoping to really start body building, yes at my age.

You'll do just fine!!

jixsumo · 11-09-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sactown

I would rather be a hard loser than a hard gainer. Think of yourself as a sculptor with a huge mass of granite for you to sculpt any damn way you please.

If you are lifting competitively, you can' t change that, but if not, you might want to cut back on the deadlifts, as they make you "HUNGRY".
...
I'm a big dawg, too and I too have a long way to go, but this is now my lifestyle. I done pushed in all my chips.

GRANITE. I like that. One huge slab of granite to sculpt.

But I love my dead lifts. MY back pain stopped when I started doing these. I started light, with good form, and I am working my way up. I can see RDLS making me hungry. I am defintely working my abs hard, when I lift that bar. I want one day, SUNDAY for RDLs. So I can see cutting back, not eliminating, those for a while.

You are right. This is a lifestyle change. I am actually enjoying this. Its not drudgery at all.

I am stuck trying to figure out what is real food though, and portion control. I did buy a cool scale to weigh everything. So I am getting there. I am just a little frustrated.

BigBoomer · 11-09-2008, 12:52 PM

> [QUOTE=jixsumo;243391111]I need help with my diet. I can either eat to > train the way I want, or I can diet to lose the fat that I have. I really
> cant do both at the same time.

3 things to consider:

You might be pleasantly surprised at the help you get from everyone with your diet, but you have to be specific about the details - including timing, meal content, p/c/f ratios and kcal at each meal, supplements, etc.

Without knowing anything about your training program, diet, problem areas or history - nobody can say for sure that you cannot do both at the same time. It may be true, or you may be better served focusing on one main goal at a time in order to accomplish both over a longer period of time. Who knows?

Your diet, training program or both are VERY suspect if you say that you cannot train the way you want in order to achieve your goals. Me thinks you probably overtrain and aren't eating correctly for gaining muscle OR losing fat, my friend.

> I think if I come up with a cleaner diet, I can properly balance the two
> needs - muscle gain and fat loss.
> But the other side of the scale, the hard loser is not covered.

There is a veritable plethora of info about fat loss nutrition and training to lose bodyfat online. Read, learn, apply some salt, keep the good stuff and toss most of it away. Make sure you are looking at diets for bodybuilders, not the average person that would even consider Jenny Craig like you mentioned. Going way beyond the absolute musts of things like post-workout nutrition and daily protein intake and timing, learn about the correct ratios of carbs and fats at each meal according to your workout schedule and time of day, plus carb level rotation/depletion, EFA intake, hormone levels (test?, thyroid? T-3 uptake inhibitor?) while dieting. Look to guys like John Berardi and Clay Hyght under article listings at testosterone.net. BTW - common ideas of a "clean diet" like eating more whole grains, low fat, only egg whites & chicken, no red meat, and even eating the exact same foods and low calories or carb levels every day are usually not very successful in my experience.

Hey, if you happen to come across info on eliminating run-on sentences, please let me know.

>When I train hard enough to burn all the calories I have eaten, I love it. >But I am so tired after the pump fades, that I wonder why do I do this to >myself.

Again, your diet AND (especially after that sentence) your training are very suspicious.

DarinK · 11-09-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sactown

The most major thing body fat wise is to get carbohydrates under control. Begin with no carbs after 8 P.M., then eliminate all food with processed, white flour. Eating whole foods is MAJOR, cuz you can keep your mass, but drop fat.

Sactown I think the no carbs after (fill in the blank) is one of those persistent nutrition myths that refuse to go away. What ultimately decides whether you gain or lose weight is ending the day, or even better ending the week in a caloric deficit.

sactown · 11-10-2008, 01:24 AM

The magical thing about watching carbohydrate intake is how drastically it decreases your appetite. The more carbs you eat, the hungrier you are. I'm guessin that big dog is not doin much cardio, so he must get the portion size and frequency of his meals in check. Carbohydrate regulation helps when significant weight loss is in order.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkf10425

Sactown I think the no carbs after (fill in the blank) is one of those persistent nutrition myths that refuse to go away. What ultimately decides whether you gain or lose weight is ending the day, or even better ending the week in a caloric deficit.

halogenic · 11-10-2008, 03:05 AM

I'm not an expert, so don't listen too much to my advioce

But I'd say try doing lots of cardio in the morning if you can. Eat as much as you want, but eat clean. Lots of small meals. I'd also focus more on your bodyfat percentage rather than your weight. My weight's been going up, but my bodyfat percentage has been going down. Muscle is a fat burning machine, so the more muscle you have, the more fat it will burn, even at rest. Also I eat a handful of dried sultana's when I need a sugar hit, they don't taste nice enough to make me want to pig out, but it stops me from craving other junk like chocolate. I do the same with lightly salted almonds, rather than buying a bag of crisps.

Good luck, half the battle is having the right attitude and getting mindset sorted. Researching diets etc on Bodybuilding.com helps me to stay focused and motivated.

jixsumo · 11-10-2008, 01:17 PM

I suspect I have plateaued.

I found this great digital scale on ebay that goes to 440 pounds, and does body fat percentages. Since I am not as close to 440 as I once was, I should get accurate weight and body fat percentages. I like the idea of watching my body fat a lot closer. I am growing muscle. This is obvious. When you touch my biceps and triceps and calves, you feel thick meat.

I got 2 differnt body fat testers when I started out. They were great, but the numbers were inconsistent. I think I was outside the range of the devices.

Getting my cardio in, in the morning is almost impossible. I have been doing cardio early the last week, cause I am on vacation. But other wise its an end of day kind of thing. Elipical machines are a gift arent they.

I do my workout at lunch when my body is awake. I feel a lot more conscious of what I am doing, and seem to focus better.

Clean food. Ladies and gents, give me a list of your favorite clean foods. This should be its own thread.

sactown · 11-10-2008, 04:07 PM

I agree that coming here makes motivation a lot easier and having to see that large, horizontal, shadow casting, soft ab below my navel as an avatar makes me wanna eat clean, too.

When I stopped eating snacks (chips, pretzels, etc0) and cut back on my carbs, it was easy for me to start eating 5-6 times daily. The cool thing for me is that I am never hungry.

I also work with 2 ladies who are on a keto diet (one of whom had a stomach bypass, so she must eat well, or else!)

If you can affiliate yourself with someone who eats clean, watches carbs, and eats frequently throughout the day, it becomes easier to see that it can be done!

The KETO thread puts up recipes and stuff.

Werloc · 11-10-2008, 04:19 PM

I didn't read all the posts on this thread "yet". Here is a little story about me.

In 1994 I was 300 lbs and a 44" waist. Joined Golds Gym and got hooked. My waist size went from 44" to 32" in less than a year. I held off the fat for about 6 years. I stopped working out 9 years ago when I got married, and gained a lot of fat again. 3 months ago, I started eating healthy and lifting again looking for the same results.

Below was (and is now again) my typical daily intake/routine.

4:00 AM: Black coffee and ephedrine, then 45 minutes on either treadmill or bike, keeping my heart rate between 115 and 125 for 35 of those minutes.
5:00 AM: 8 egg whites
7:00 AM: Plain oatmeal and 4 egg whites
9:00 AM: Protein bar
12:00 PM Lunch: 1 boiled chicken breast shreaded over romane lettuce, 6 egg whites and unsweetened iced tea.
3:30 PM: Protein bar on the way home from work.
4:30 PM: Drink grape juice with Creatine and Glutamine then "Workout"
6:00 PM: Post workout Protein shake.
8:00 PM: Dinner, either grilled Chicken or Turkey breast, Salmon, Talapia, or lean Steak, with steamed veggie's and small salad, unsweetened iced tea. 2 days a week, I'll have some Pasta, or Potato for carbs.
10:00 PM: Protein shake.
10:30 PM: Bed time.

This worked very well for me back then, and is working well for me now. But now, it's just a little harder to loose fat and gain muscle. Maybe because I'm 45 now, I don't know. But it's working. Hope this helps...

BuckSpin · 11-10-2008, 06:19 PM

2/4/09: almost 270lbs, over 43% BF
5/8/09: 199.4lbs, 18% BF

70lbs in 13.5 weeks

PM me if you want. It CAN be done.

Mad_Gerbil · 11-10-2008, 06:39 PM

I have only general advice for diet (what has worked for me).

1: You are attacked every single day all day long when it comes to diet. You are hit with hundreds of ads every day and you are told repeatedly that you deserve to eat food that is harmful for you. Its time to get a little angry about these lies that are killing you.

Helpful Hint: Read books about healthy diets and books about how being overweight is killing you. Fight the propoganda with facts and fill your mind with the truth.

2: Being hungry during the day isn't the end of the world. In America we act like being mildly hungry is some sort of a crime. It isn't.

Helpful Hint: Don't be afraid to swear at your gut. Don't let that thing lead you around like you are a child.

3: I've found that I can train myself to like healthy food. You can actually learn to crave healthy, fresh, low fat nutritious foods if you give yourself time to explore some new tastes. Check out all those restaurants and foods you've been ignoring up until now because you've been trained by the junk food stores to look no further.

Helpful Hint: Begin stopping at all those goofy restaurants you would have never set food in a year ago. I've found vegetarian places, middle eastern places, and other nooks and crannies where some suprisingly good food (and healthy food) can be found for cheap. Of course, you'll get total bummers this way but exploration is half the fun!

Today for lunch I had a Fattoush salad and every piece of onion, every piece of tomato, every piece of pepper was fantastic because I trained myself to love the food that will keep me healthy. You can do this as well.

That is only part of the equation for you.
Big Macs really do taste like poo-poo on asbestos - get back to tasting good food again.

sactown · 11-10-2008, 10:52 PM

I'm proud to say that I've cleaned out a lotta crap from my diet, but I've never had a single day when I've eaten that well.

I'm sensitive to ephedrine. If I drank it with coffee, y'all would see no more posts from me.

Time for incline.................

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werloc

I didn't read all the posts on this thread "yet". Here is a little story about me.

In 1994 I was 300 lbs and a 44" waist. Joined Golds Gym and got hooked. My waist size went from 44" to 32" in less than a year. I held off the fat for about 6 years. I stopped working out 9 years ago when I got married, and gained a lot of fat again. 3 months ago, I started eating healthy and lifting again looking for the same results.

Below was (and is now again) my typical daily intake/routine.

4:00 AM: Black coffee and ephedrine, then 45 minutes on either treadmill or bike, keeping my heart rate between 115 and 125 for 35 of those minutes.
5:00 AM: 8 egg whites
7:00 AM: Plain oatmeal and 4 egg whites
9:00 AM: Protein bar
12:00 PM Lunch: 1 boiled chicken breast shreaded over romane lettuce, 6 egg whites and unsweetened iced tea.
3:30 PM: Protein bar on the way home from work.
4:30 PM: Drink grape juice with Creatine and Glutamine then "Workout"
6:00 PM: Post workout Protein shake.
8:00 PM: Dinner, either grilled Chicken or Turkey breast, Salmon, Talapia, or lean Steak, with steamed veggie's and small salad, unsweetened iced tea. 2 days a week, I'll have some Pasta, or Potato for carbs.
10:00 PM: Protein shake.
10:30 PM: Bed time.

This worked very well for me back then, and is working well for me now. But now, it's just a little harder to loose fat and gain muscle. Maybe because I'm 45 now, I don't know. But it's working. Hope this helps...

bebeklein · 11-11-2008, 01:59 AM

You've made great progress so far jix!

You might find some of these tools helpful:

This is a good calculator for figuring out your calorie needs. However, ignore the "extreme fat loss" since it is too large of a deficit for healthy weight loss once you get closer to your ideal weight. (Right now there's not much of a difference.)

Looks like you should be taking in somewhere b/n 3000 - 3200 cals depending on your activity level.
http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

I like 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat and think it's a good starting point.

www.nutritiondata.com is a good website for information on foods.

I also recommend keeping a food journal in www.sparkpeople.com to track cals and macros initially (perhaps the first 2 weeks - month). (I used to use fitday and I prefer this one now). Once you have a nutrition program put together, you'll be able to gauge your cals and macros and won't need the food journal. But I think its a good tool to use in the beginning so you can fine tune everything.

Personally, I don't do the 5 - 6 meals although that's ideal. It's just too much maintenance for me and I'm not a competitor. Eating 3 meals and 1 or 2 snacks works for me and I think it's more important that you do something you know you can stick with.

I'll post more later on food choices.