Pullups????

[aj_mlk]

I was training at my gym when the trainer that they have started doing pullups. When he was doing it he would swing his legs forward while pulling himself up. I asked why he did that and he told me that you get a better workout when you do it that way. I was always told form is very important when training. My question was he right or wrong?? When I watched him all I could think was you would injure yourself. Thanks for any feedback.

[Phil2009]

Better with strict form.
Those who do it by swinging usually do it to gain momentum for each rep.

Swinging your legs forward doesnt pose any advantage.

[soxcc10]

Alot of the times I'll go to failure on strict form then cheat by swinging to knock out some more reps.

[Autonomous Ben]

Originally Posted by soxcc10

Alot of the times I'll go to failure on strict form then cheat by swinging to knock out some more reps.

^^this.

i do the same thing, i go from a dead hang to chin over bar for as many as i can, then i "kip" the next 2-3 reps.

think of it as forced reps, like if you are benching and someone helps you eek out 2 more reps by lifting the bar with you.

[aj_mlk]

Thanks to everyone who replys. I understand helping yourself eek out htose last few reps, but this trainer told me to do them all like that.

[BBDF]

He could be doing kipping pull-ups

[MrBtotheG]

I definitely kip near the end of my sets, cheating isn't always bad. More reps in the long run is better than giving up.

[TheSoldier]

True, strict form is better
Even if you do less its still better than swining your legs.

[TulsaCoker]

Maybe he's adding an ab workout out at the same time

[JoLIL]

Originally Posted by MrBtotheG

I definitely kip near the end of my sets, cheating isn't always bad. More reps in the long run is better than giving up.

Agree

[DtotheJtotheH]

Slow controlled form will be better for building muscle (time under tension) and pose less risk of injury.

however, kipping is a decent way to add a few extra reps at the end...

[SquatTilYouDrop]

The point of a pullup is to work the lats and give a wider appearance. It seems to me MORE sets of controlled pullups without swinging and using momentum with an emphasis on mind muscle connection would be the preferred method.

Instead of swinging to strain a couple extra reps at the end of a set why not stop....rest a couple minutes and then start fresh with a new set and good form. In the end, the results will be better because you will have achieved a higher overall number of "form true" reps. It may take longer in terms of the number of sets but at least you're training your body/muscles to do the right thing which should lead to better overall results in the long run.

[F1eld]

or maybe rest enough so that you can do 1 more rep and repeat this until you get the desired number of reps

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

The point of a pullup is to work the lats and give a wider appearance. It seems to me MORE sets of controlled pullups without swinging and using momentum with an emphasis on mind muscle connection would be the preferred method.

Instead of swinging to strain a couple extra reps at the end of a set why not stop....rest a couple minutes and then start fresh with a new set and good form. In the end, the results will be better because you will have achieved a higher overall number of "form true" reps. It may take longer in terms of the number of sets but at least you're training your body/muscles to do the right thing which should lead to better overall results in the long run.

X2; the effort is better-spent on quality reps, rather than a few sloppy cheats. Much less chance of injury, too.

[Trapstar4.4]

Originally Posted by soxcc10

Alot of the times I'll go to failure on strict form then cheat by swinging to knock out some more reps.

I think this is the best way to handle pullups. The kipping is good for getting an extra rep that you would otherwise not be able to do

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Originally Posted by blaqsand

I think this is the best way to handle pullups. The kipping is good for getting an extra rep that you would otherwise not be able to do

Do you really think doing a ****ty rep at the end of a set is going to make that much difference?? What is the point??

[Autonomous Ben]

meh, to each his own. i have experience great back development over the years with kipping. i have also made great gains doing weighted pullups, where i do not kip.

[Defiant1]

Only form that matters is the one that hits the muscle where and how you want while avoiding injury.

[SDB1]

Kipping is getting to be really popular. Crossfit followers use them all the time. It's not a pullup. It's basically a completely different excercise. Kipping is usually thrown in as part of some type of circuit. It's used more as an upper body cardio movement than a strength/mass builder. It may look stupid to the untrained eye but it's really effective if implemeted properly. You'd usually use it as part of your cardiovascular training or when cutting.

[Trapstar4.4]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

Do you really think doing a ****ty rep at the end of a set is going to make that much difference?? What is the point??

either way you cant deny that you are still exhausting your muscles further, and you cant deny that. True enough, when one starts kipping the primary muscles that are involved in the exercise, then come secondary, but even so its till works them no matter how much you want to deny

Originally Posted by SDB1

Kipping is getting to be really popular. Crossfit followers use them all the time. It's not a pullup. It's basically a completely different excercise. Kipping is usually thrown in as part of some type of circuit. It's used more as an upper body cardio movement than a strength/mass builder. It may look stupid to the untrained eye but it's really effective if implemeted properly. You'd usually use it as part of your cardiovascular training or when cutting.

x2

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Originally Posted by blaqsand

either way you cant deny that you are still exhausting your muscles further, and you cant deny that. True enough, when one starts kipping the primary muscles that are involved in the exercise, then come secondary, but even so its till works them no matter how much you want to deny

But is that optimal?? Why not rest a minute or so.... then go back and do perfect reps and exaust your muscle in the beneficial way possible... that being with full rom and control with a premium on hitting the target muscle.

[Trapstar4.4]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

But is that optimal?? Why not rest a minute or so.... then go back and do perfect reps and exaust your muscle in the beneficial way possible... that being with full rom and control with a premium on hitting the target muscle.

dont know, different approaches i guess. I use both approaches. It just depends on how much motivation i have that day and if i want to actually take it to absolute failure

[funkymonk420]

i think blaqsand is right in that kipping can be used on every rep in an effort to increase muscular endurance, but of course for strength and size gains it would not be the preferred method.

whether or not it's effective to cheat out the last 2 reps or so is debatable and most likely depends on the person, but kipping would probably be most effectively used with a long, slow negative since the positive movement is cheated.

[SDB1]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

But is that optimal?? Why not rest a minute or so.... then go back and do perfect reps and exaust your muscle in the beneficial way possible... that being with full rom and control with a premium on hitting the target muscle.

It's called pre exhaustion. Strict or isolation movements are coupled with cheats or compound movements in order to push the muscle beyond what you could achieve with strict form only. It's stressing the muscle far as possible that spurs new growth. Just because you can no longer perform a strict movement doesn't mean you have fully worked the muscle it just means you've run out of muscle endurnace for that movement/weight. That's also why drop sets are so effective.

[Drekkor]

Thus why I like pulldowns. If I'm too tired to do a "bw pullup".. drop the weight and do some more reps

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Originally Posted by SDB1

It's called pre exhaustion. Strict or isolation movements are coupled with cheats or compound movements in order to push the muscle beyond what you could achieve with strict form only. It's stressing the muscle far as possible that spurs new growth. Just because you can no longer perform a strict movement doesn't mean you have fully worked the muscle it just means you've run out of muscle endurance for that movement/weight. That's also why drop sets are so effective.

I see what you are saying but you can still achieve pre-exhaustion with good form through a full rom without resorting to cheat tactics. People who engage in cheating...I've noticed... tend to develop bad habits and abandon good form more easily than those who stay on the strict path.

Originally Posted by Drekkor

Thus why I like pulldowns. If I'm too tired to do a "bw pullup".. drop the weight and do some more reps

True with BW pullups you are handicapped by a single weight. Once muscle fatigue sets in you have no where to go...bad form is sure to follow as muscles fail. However the bio mechanics of the pullup and the pulldown are very different. Probably would be a good idea to do both starting with pullups.

[BerZerK]

I've got a question...

When I'm doing pullups the tendency is always for my legs to come forwards as I pull myself up.

I'm not swinging them or gaining any momentum from them coming forward, but I simply find myself unable to keep my legs behind my torso. Is this bad, and is there a reason for this?

[JoeyDaFool]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

But is that optimal?? Why not rest a minute or so.... then go back and do perfect reps and exaust your muscle in the beneficial way possible... that being with full rom and control with a premium on hitting the target muscle.

because it's better to use your legs a little to get up, then do a slow ass negative

even if you would use your legs and cheat as hell, most of the weight is still lifted by your back

[SquatTilYouDrop]

Originally Posted by JoeyDaFool

because it's better to use your legs a little to get up, then do a slow ass negative

even if you would use your legs and cheat as hell, most of the weight is still lifted by your back

Not quite following your train of logic here

The negative phase of an exercise is generally considered the major muscle building portion of the exercise.

[Autonomous Ben]

Originally Posted by SquatTilYouDrop

Not quite following your train of logic here

The negative phase of an exercise is generally considered the major muscle building portion of the exercise.

I think what he is saying, is that even if you are kipping, that your back/arms bear in excess of 50% of the load that they would have if it were a true form pullup. I would tend to agree, but I don't know what his point is...