How do i get the cannonBall, Coconut Delts? ***** 5 star thread *****

[dc01]

I'm trying to get the coconut (CannonBall) Delt Look (all 3 heads complete) need a good rep range, (db or bb or cables) how many times per day (rest periods) and how to limit traps, my traps are making my shoulders look very narrow (doing 120lbs db shrugs at 4 sets in the 10-12 range)!...NEED HELP HERE! some say do front raises some say Not, but i dont want not only Mass I WANT details, the girls like the Details, lets be real here (lol).....they dont like that Bulky stuff (they like Nice Size with Details) !!!!!!!

[hulkout]

Eliminate shrugs. They're one of the most useless exercises in existence. To train the traps, it's far better to train them with a dynamic compound exercise like deadlifts, cleans, or high pulls. That way, you will develop "real world power" as Bruce Lee used to call it. Also, front raises are equally useless. With all the pressing for chest and tricep exericses, why the hell would you want to do specific front delt exercises? To get the cannonball delts, you need to really focus on lateral raises, but not the usual kind you see on tv or read about in the magazines. Keep your legs bent, and bend the torso over a bit to get some momentum. Lift the dumbbells up keeping the pinkies higher than your thumb (like pouring out of a milk jug). When you get to the top, dip your upper body a bit to "crunch" your shoulders. At the top, you should be able to see your rear delts in the mirror. If you do it this way, your traps aren't brought into play very much. Along with the lateral raises, do the scott press or arnold rotating dumbbell press and the bentover dumbbell laterals. Try this workout.

Lateral raise 5 sets of 8-10
Scott press 4 sets of 8-10
Bentover laterals 4 sets of 10-12

Alternatively, you could just do lateral raises for 8 sets of 8 or 10 sets of 10. But you should only use this kind of set-rep scheme for 6 to 8 weeks. Your main routine should be the first one.

One more point: That bit about not wanting just mass, but wanting detail is a load of crap! Any resistance exercise is about increasing muscle mass, period! Detail is about bodyfat. Look at an olympic gymnast or an olympic lifter (not a superheavyweight). Do you think they specifically train for detail? Of course not. But yet look at the detail and shape of those guys. There is no such thing as detail or shaping exercises. There are only exercises that train muscles that are often ignored or improperly trained.

[Turco]

Originally Posted by hulkout

Eliminate shrugs. They're one of the most useless exercises in existence. To train the traps, it's far better to train them with a dynamic compound exercise like deadlifts, cleans, or high pulls.

I don't agree at all.

[spot_skater]

Originally Posted by hulkout

Eliminate shrugs. They're one of the most useless exercises in existence. To train the traps, it's far better to train them with a dynamic compound exercise like deadlifts, cleans, or high pulls. That way, you will develop "real world power" as Bruce Lee used to call it. Also, front raises are equally useless. With all the pressing for chest and tricep exericses, why the hell would you want to do specific front delt exercises? To get the cannonball delts, you need to really focus on lateral raises, but not the usual kind you see on tv or read about in the magazines. Keep your legs bent, and bend the torso over a bit to get some momentum. Lift the dumbbells up keeping the pinkies higher than your thumb (like pouring out of a milk jug). When you get to the top, dip your upper body a bit to "crunch" your shoulders. At the top, you should be able to see your rear delts in the mirror. If you do it this way, your traps aren't brought into play very much. Along with the lateral raises, do the scott press or arnold rotating dumbbell press and the bentover dumbbell laterals. Try this workout.

Lateral raise 5 sets of 8-10
Scott press 4 sets of 8-10
Bentover laterals 4 sets of 10-12

Alternatively, you could just do lateral raises for 8 sets of 8 or 10 sets of 10. But you should only use this kind of set-rep scheme for 6 to 8 weeks. Your main routine should be the first one.

One more point: That bit about not wanting just mass, but wanting detail is a load of crap! Any resistance exercise is about increasing muscle mass, period! Detail is about bodyfat. Look at an olympic gymnast or an olympic lifter (not a superheavyweight). Do you think they specifically train for detail? Of course not. But yet look at the detail and shape of those guys. There is no such thing as detail or shaping exercises. There are only exercises that train muscles that are often ignored or improperly trained.

Good post. Repped.

Originally Posted by Turco

I don't agree at all.

I do. BB shrugs are an exercise I've done once. DB shrugs get done once every 3-4 weeks. All of my trap development I will attribute to dead lifts, extremely heavy rack pulls, and power cleans.

My trap development is pretty on point, and I have no desire to have big traps.

Back on topic.

Your front delts should get blasted with your presses. Especially overhead movements with DBs or barbells. You may also want to try hammer grip (palms facing each other) DB presses on a flat bench.

The medial delts can be hit really hard with DB lat raises and behind the back cable raises, along with machine lateral raises-- if your gym has the machine. It's one of the tougher exercises to perform correctly, so don't be surprised if you start out VERY light with the DBs. Behind the neck presses will also hit your medial delts, but some people experience rotator cuff pain during these. Wide grip upright rows will also attack your medial dets.

IMO the rear delts can be hit with a bit higher rep range (12-15) because they are so small. Face pulls, reverse pec deck or reverse incline fly's will get these, as well as any rowing movement you do on back day- important to keep into consideration if your shoulder and back days are close to each other. Really need to focus on the squeeze in your rear delts when working them... since you can't see it you need to get the MM connection going, unlike anything worked on the anterior part of your body, which you can see in the mirror.

Good luck.

[Turco]

Shrugs get a bad rep because people don't do them correctly. Most everyone I see do them very fast, without much control. When done slowly with a pause/squeeze at the top, shrugs are very effective at targeting traps.

[blancmange]

i hope shrugs arent useless!!! Any else chime in?

[spot_skater]

Originally Posted by Turco

Shrugs get a bad rep because people don't do them correctly. Most everyone I see do them very fast, without much control. When done slowly with a pause/squeeze at the top, shrugs are very effective at targeting traps.

Very good point. That squeeze really burns them up.

It's a shame for me-- whenever I think shrugs all I think about is someone loading up a bunch of plates on a barbell, power shrugging super fast and letting the bar bang off the pins in a power rack and using the momentum to get those reps out...

[skinny_screw]

would just seated press and the up rows be just good for making big shoulders that are round and strongest or other things too?

[Bo DeLone]

Yeah the db shrugs are really awesome with that hold at the top.

For variation I do towell db shrugs with small towells and wrapped around the dumbell...good shrug variation.

[sylkkdaskr]

Originally Posted by Turco

Shrugs get a bad rep because people don't do them correctly. Most everyone I see do them very fast, without much control. When done slowly with a pause/squeeze at the top, shrugs are very effective at targeting traps.

this.


I hate seein dudes on smith machine with 3 or 4 plates on it lookin like their having epileptic seisures....(no speller)

[908]

Shrug statement is a matter of opinion. If you aren't doing it correctly then you won't see development. Plenty of people squat like **** then go on to say they don't like squatting and feel it does nothing for them but even the average lifter knows the importance of squats. Shrugging is effective, if done properly, which most tools int the gym don't because they just wanna be seen putting big weight on a bar and doing something with it.

As far as the delt question it's a fairly simple solution. Make sure to include raises in your workouts, including lateral, front barbell, and bent over raises.

[Al Swearengen]

Originally Posted by blancmange

i hope shrugs arent useless!!! Any else chime in?

shrugs work just fine and anyone saying just rely on deads and pulls is missing out on good development potential, sad really.

[Deonne]

shrugs make my traps sore the next day sometimes....so dont tell me it dosn't target them.

[blancmange]

Originally Posted by Deonne

shrugs make my traps sore the next day sometimes....so dont tell me it dosn't target them.

but so does punching yourself in the face

soreness does not always equal growth

[jamez123]

Originally Posted by hulkout

To get the cannonball delts, you need to really focus on lateral raises, but not the usual kind you see on tv or read about in the magazines. Keep your legs bent, and bend the torso over a bit to get some momentum. Lift the dumbbells up keeping the pinkies higher than your thumb (like pouring out of a milk jug). When you get to the top, dip your upper body a bit to "crunch" your shoulders. At the top, you should be able to see your rear delts in the mirror.

TERRIBLE ADVICE.

NEVER USE MOMENTUM especially in your shoulders.. unless you want an injury.

Forget about his silly lateral raises (these are saved for the 3rd or last shoulder exercise).

If you want giant round shoulders you do heavy and intense shoulder presses. Barbell and Dumbbell. I start every shoulder workout with presses and they are far more developed (over developed and out of proportion to the rest of my body actually) than any other part of my body. I usually do 5-6 sets pyramid down from 10-12 reps to failure (3 or so reps).

To get your rear delts going go hard and heavy on the reverse pec dec.. 4-5 sets pyramid down... im doing 220+ for reps.

If you do those 2 exercises right your shoulders will get big.

[Behemoth1]

just posted a thread about this in the workout journal forum, give it a read maybe you'll get an idea or two.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=111546701

[JOHN GARGANI]

Originally Posted by Jamez

TERRIBLE ADVICE.

Hulk was describing a method popularized by Larry Scott, who was known for his fantastic shoulder development.

also, there IS a methodology where you spend more time on the negative portion of the lateral raise using a slightly heavier weight than you can get up in a slow controlled manner, so that momentum is called for in this variation also.....

could it be "terrible" advice for some people...sure...because we are all different....

try not to put such labels on a poster when other people, such as Larry Scott, have benefited and espouse this type of methodology.

[jamez123]

Originally Posted by JOHN GARGANI

Hulk was describing a method popularized by Larry Scott, who was known for his fantastic shoulder development.

also, there IS a methodology where you spend more time on the negative portion of the lateral raise using a slightly heavier weight than you can get up in a slow controlled manner, so that momentum is called for in this variation also.....

could it be "terrible" advice for some people...sure...because we are all different....

try not to put such labels on a poster when other people, such as Larry Scott, have benefited and espouse this type of methodology.

I don't care who said it.. if you use momentum tossing weights around with your shoulders you're begging for injury. Larry Scott did his workouts in a time where much less was known about the mechanics of the body. Just becuase it worked doesn't mean its the right way or the best way.

[The_Animal11]

Originally Posted by hulkout

Eliminate shrugs. They're one of the most useless exercises in existence. To train the traps, it's far better to train them with a dynamic compound exercise like deadlifts, cleans, or high pulls. That way, you will develop "real world power" as Bruce Lee used to call it.

Originally Posted by spot_skater

I do. BB shrugs are an exercise I've done once. DB shrugs get done once every 3-4 weeks. All of my trap development I will attribute to dead lifts, extremely heavy rack pulls, and power cleans.

My trap development is pretty on point, and I have no desire to have big traps.

the reason i am going to disagree with these two posts is because of the parts I have bolded. if we're talking about shoulder development, we're not talking about "real world power" we're talking about development. as most people around here know, there is often little connection between the two.

Also, i just dont agree with giving advice on an exercise you have only done once, or not at all. also, what you are basically saying is, i dont do shrugs because i dont want to have big traps, meaning doing shrugs would lead to big traps. (sorry, not trying to e-flame)

WHEN DONE CORRECTLY shrugs are a great exercise for trap development. I have used them to add size to my traps and they have made a noticable difference.

back on point, for good delt development, you cant neglect the heavier shoulder moves like military presses, db presses, and the like! these are exercises that I neglected, and upon adding them to my shoulder routine, noticable differences came very quickly! dont forget about the rear delts though! reverse flyes and rowing movements are great for these.

also, whats with the three posts with almost the same title, am i unaware?

[spot_skater]

Originally Posted by The_Animal11

the reason i am going to disagree with these two posts is because of the parts I have bolded. if we're talking about shoulder development, we're not talking about "real world power" we're talking about development. as most people around here know, there is often little connection between the two.

Also, i just dont agree with giving advice on an exercise you have only done once, or not at all. also, what you are basically saying is, i dont do shrugs because i dont want to have big traps, meaning doing shrugs would lead to big traps. (sorry, not trying to e-flame)

WHEN DONE CORRECTLY shrugs are a great exercise for trap development. I have used them to add size to my traps and they have made a noticable difference.

back on point, for good delt development, you cant neglect the heavier shoulder moves like military presses, db presses, and the like! these are exercises that I neglected, and upon adding them to my shoulder routine, noticable differences came very quickly! dont forget about the rear delts though! reverse flyes and rowing movements are great for these.

also, whats with the three posts with almost the same title, am i unaware?

What I was trying to say is that they're not necessary for big traps.

[The_Animal11]

Originally Posted by spot_skater

What I was trying to say is that they're not necessary for big traps.

this is probably true, but i'd say its a pretty decent exercise overall, and kinda like saying you dont need to do bench for big pecs. totally true, but isnt a reason not to bench.

either way, its neither here nor there, cuz the OPs question wasnt about shrugs, and i agree with everything ya said relating to the actual question asked haha!

[hulkout]

Originally Posted by jamez123

I don't care who said it.. if you use momentum tossing weights around with your shoulders you're begging for injury. Larry Scott did his workouts in a time where much less was known about the mechanics of the body. Just becuase it worked doesn't mean its the right way or the best way.

When the hell did I say to toss the weights around? I said to bend the body to get some momentum going, not ridiculous amounts of it. And if you think that your form will always be picture perfect without some cheating, you're in dreamland. If you want to move any major weight and build real muscle size, you must cheat a bit, but that doesn't mean lifting without muscle control.

[CaptainGorgeous]

Originally Posted by jamez123

I don't care who said it.. if you use momentum tossing weights around with your shoulders you're begging for injury. Larry Scott did his workouts in a time where much less was known about the mechanics of the body. Just becuase it worked doesn't mean its the right way or the best way.

Good job misinterpreting his post!

[DiamondDelts]

(Places hands over face)

[Majestyc]

Originally Posted by DiamondDelts

(Places hands over face)

Make it right. It's the right thing to do.

[spot_skater]

Originally Posted by Majestyc

Make it right. It's the right thing to do.

+1.

I feel like more people would appreciate your input on this, too.

[LSU1]

for me, and i have big shoulders that grow easily, its all about the big exercises

btn presses, db presses and push presses are all i do for shoulders and they are almost too big for the rest of my physique.

get stronger on those and you will get big shoulders. rear delt development should be gained from properly done rows and some direct rear delt work including reverse pec deck.

and yes, i have round shoulders without ever doing laterals.

big press done properly = big delts

[Saku39]

Originally Posted by hulkout

Eliminate shrugs. They're one of the most useless exercises in existence. To train the traps, it's far better to train them with a dynamic compound exercise like deadlifts, cleans, or high pulls. That way, you will develop "real world power" as Bruce Lee used to call it. Also, front raises are equally useless. With all the pressing for chest and tricep exericses, why the hell would you want to do specific front delt exercises? To get the cannonball delts, you need to really focus on lateral raises, but not the usual kind you see on tv or read about in the magazines. Keep your legs bent, and bend the torso over a bit to get some momentum. Lift the dumbbells up keeping the pinkies higher than your thumb (like pouring out of a milk jug). When you get to the top, dip your upper body a bit to "crunch" your shoulders. At the top, you should be able to see your rear delts in the mirror. If you do it this way, your traps aren't brought into play very much. Along with the lateral raises, do the scott press or arnold rotating dumbbell press and the bentover dumbbell laterals. Try this workout.

Lateral raise 5 sets of 8-10
Scott press 4 sets of 8-10
Bentover laterals 4 sets of 10-12

Alternatively, you could just do lateral raises for 8 sets of 8 or 10 sets of 10. But you should only use this kind of set-rep scheme for 6 to 8 weeks. Your main routine should be the first one.

One more point: That bit about not wanting just mass, but wanting detail is a load of crap! Any resistance exercise is about increasing muscle mass, period! Detail is about bodyfat. Look at an olympic gymnast or an olympic lifter (not a superheavyweight). Do you think they specifically train for detail? Of course not. But yet look at the detail and shape of those guys. There is no such thing as detail or shaping exercises. There are only exercises that train muscles that are often ignored or improperly trained.

Dont listen do this guy about shrugs. They do work very well for multiple, confirmed, seperate people over decades of time

Bruce Lee didn't care about bodybuilding, he cared about developing a blended Fighting style and perfecting his body for fighting ability. He was before his time, as his philosophy was basically MMA, but he was not a bb

[jamez123]

Originally Posted by LSU1

and yes, i have round shoulders without ever doing laterals.

big press done properly = big delts

Originally Posted by hulkout

When the hell did I say to toss the weights around? I said to bend the body to get some momentum going, not ridiculous amounts of it. And if you think that your form will always be picture perfect without some cheating, you're in dreamland. If you want to move any major weight and build real muscle size, you must cheat a bit, but that doesn't mean lifting without muscle control.

Didn't say you did. But you did say use momentum to someone who probably knows very little about correct form and that's no way to get started on working out shoulders.

Heavy bb/db presses first. they build the big shoulders. save laterals for the end.

[LarryByrd]

Don't eliminate shrugs, but they shouldn't be a staple. Do heavy shrugs once every two weeks, but if you're doing dead's your trap development will explode.